 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006sock puppets revisited
Excerpt from today's NYTimes: But when The New York Times prints a timely editorial about "sock puppets," meaning false identities assumed on the Internet, the O.E.D. has more work to do. [end excerpt] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/magazine/05cyber.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted 84 hits for "sock puppets" at http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=sock+puppets&btnG=Search+News There seem to be several meanings: http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/t/thejargonlexicon.html sock puppet: n. [Usenet: from the act of placing a sock over your hand and talking to it and pretending it's talking back] In Usenet parlance, a pseudo through which the puppeteer posts follow-ups to their own original message to give the appearance that a number of people support the views held in the original message. [This was posted by Will at AUE in March 2005 - the purpose of such fictional entities more recently is to get e-mail addresses for commercial or political solicitations or for other nefarious ends.] Puppet dolls made to resemble socks (or representations of same on the Internet) Swift-boat types (cronies, mis-named, organized to swamp talk shows, etc) As for origin, Evan Kirshenbaum posted at AUE in March 2005 as follows: Ben Zimmer <bgzim...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes: > The earliest examples I can find for "sock puppet" in the "Usenet > alias" sense come from rec.gambling.blackjack in September '96... There's an earlier one, from July '93 in bit.listserv.fnord-l (if that counts as "Usenet"): f.ck both you clowns! ~~~~ I suppose I could save everyone the suspense by just saying, "f.ck you, clown (singular)", though. Everyone knows they're seeing two when there's only one. I happen to know for a fact that one is merely the sock puppet manifestation of the other's demented and sadly listing psyche. http://tinyurl.com/3ujnx <URL:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ bit.listserv.fnord-l/msg/d1b51c9c2d96469f> There's also When I see some corroborating evidence that the Network isn't just a Ralph Nader sock puppet, I might believe it. ba.general 3/24/96 http://tinyurl.com/6hp6l <URL:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ ba.general/msg/1a335dafa2e96660> A thread on "puppet socks" revisited should have something beyond what came before, so how about considering the origin of the phrase, "sock it to me?" Ben Zimmer credits that phrase to Aretha Franklin's 1967 hit song, "Respect." Wilson Gray at ADS credits the TV show, "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In" which began in 1967 and featured American-domiciled British actress Judy Carne, who duly became known as the 'sock it to me girl.' I agree with Zimmer, but I haven't done a whole lot of research. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > Excerpt from today's NYTimes: > > But when The New York Times prints a timely editorial about "sock > puppets," meaning false identities assumed on the Internet, the > O.E.D. has more work to do. [end excerpt] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/magazine/05cyber.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pag ewanted > 84 hits for "sock puppets" at > http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=sock+puppets&btnG=Search+News [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego Otis Redding wrote it and first recorded it. > Otis Redding wrote it and first recorded it. Thanks. Excerpt from Wiki article, confirming: "Respect" is a 1967 hit and the signature song of the R&B singer Aretha Franklin, written and originally released by Volt recording artist Otis Redding in 1965. While Redding wrote the song as a plea for respect and recognition from a woman, the roles were reversed for Franklin's version. Aretha Franklin's cover was a landmark for the feminist movement, and is often considered as one of the best songs of the Rock & Roll era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_(song) Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > > Otis Redding wrote it and first recorded it. > > Thanks. Excerpt from Wiki article, confirming: Too hasty -- Redding's version didn't have "sock it to me;" excerpt from Aretha's version: Oh (sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me) A little respect (sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me) Aoha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego tinwhistler <ozziemaland@post.harvard.edu> had it: > > > Otis Redding wrote it and first recorded it. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > A little respect (sock it to me, sock it to me, > sock it to me, sock it to me) The Deputy Head at my Grammar School was named Mr Toomey. He became known as "Socket" Toomey.  SignatureDavid ===== >The Deputy Head at my Grammar School was named Mr Toomey. He became >known as "Socket" Toomey. Bucky, take note. There you have the BrEUltArb using "named" where you'd no doubt have expected "called", and as usual he's quite right to do so -- it avoids setting the reader on the wrong track by thinking about teachers being "called" nicknames by pupils. We're weird but we're not *that* weird. SignatureRoss Howard T.H Entity wrote: >>The Deputy Head at my Grammar School was named Mr Toomey. He became >>known as "Socket" Toomey. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to do so -- it avoids setting the reader on the wrong track by > thinking about teachers being "called" nicknames by pupils. Duly noted. Ta. SignatureBuckwheat Soba > > Otis Redding wrote it and first recorded it. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego -------------- This is true, but Otis Redding did not write "sock it to me" into the lyrics. Aretha Franklin added the phrase to her version of the song. By that time the phrase was fairly well-known. For example, in 1966 there was a funky record out called "Sock It To 'Em J.B.," a homage to James Bond movies, by Rex Garvin & The Mighty Cravers. DianeE > This is true, but Otis Redding did not write "sock it to me" into the > lyrics. Aretha Franklin added the phrase to her version of the song. By > that time the phrase was fairly well-known. For example, in 1966 there was > a funky record out called "Sock It To 'Em J.B.," a homage to James Bond > movies, by Rex Garvin & The Mighty Cravers. Thanks. Is there a usage of the exact phrase, "sock it to me," that can be cited prior to Aretha's version came out? Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > > This is true, but Otis Redding did not write "sock it to me" into the > > lyrics. Aretha Franklin added the phrase to her version of the song. By [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego ---------------- This is a link to a recording made in 1965 with that title, although the recording wasn't released at that time. http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1051422/a/Sock+It+To+Me+Baby.htm Sorry; it's the best I can do right now. I did find one site that traced the expression back to the Civil War, but that was in the form "Sock it to *them*," not "me." DianeE > This is a link to a recording made in 1965 with that title, although the > recording wasn't released at that time. > http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1051422/a/Sock+It+To+Me+Baby.htm > Sorry; it's the best I can do right now. I did find one site that traced > the expression back to the Civil War, but that was in the form "Sock it to > *them*," not "me." No need to apologize -- I'm impressed that you got any evidence tending to antedate Zimmer's Aretha credit since he's such a master at that sort of thing. One loose end: the webpage at your link gives a 1990 release date for the [1965?] Esquerita recording entitled _Sock It To Me Baby_, while a Wiki article has 1994 for same; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquerita Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > > This is a link to a recording made in 1965 with that title, although the > > recording wasn't released at that time. http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1051422/a/Sock+It+To+Me+Baby.htm > > Sorry; it's the best I can do right now. I did find one site that traced > > the expression back to the Civil War, but that was in the form "Sock it to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Me Baby_, while a Wiki article has 1994 for same; see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquerita --------------- Well, just to make that loose end a little looser, this fan site states the Bear Family album was released in 1987! http://www.geocities.com/eskew_reeder/discog.htm Everyone seems to agree, however, that a song called "Sock It To Me Baby" was recorded by this artist in 1965. DianeE > Everyone seems to agree, however, that a song called "Sock It To Me > Baby" was recorded by this artist in 1965. Assuming that we're talking about the same song, "Sock It to Me Baby", by Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, first shows up on the pop charts in the _LA Times_ at number 10 (national) on 3/4/1967. So it seems likely that it was released that year. It was given as an example in a July 23, 1967, article entitled "Put Another Record on the Pornograph" [sic] by the delightfully named Mopsy Strange Kennedy: Any teen-ager who's been listening to pop music nonetheless knows by heart a list of songs he has either sought out and giggled over or been disgusted by on the sex-sin-drugs lyric question. One of the most blatant examples is "Sock It to Me Baby," by Mitch Rider and the Detroit Wheels. Some object to the title itself, but that phrase is in common parlance now. The real problem is a four letter word, a word used by many in conversations with broken household appliances, but hardly the kind of thing one is used to in pop songs. [_LA Times_, 7/23/1967] Looking at a transcript of the lyrics, I'm not sure what "four letter word" she's talking about, but a mondegreen site http://www.amiright.com/misheard/artist/mitchryderandthedetroitwheels.shtml lists the line "When you kiss me baby, it's like a punch" being heard as "like a f**k" [asterisks, theirs]. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The bathwater, in this case, does 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |not appear to ever have contained Palo Alto, CA 94304 |any baby. | kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | ronniecat (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ [snip] > Assuming that we're talking about the same song, "Sock It to Me Baby", > by Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, first shows up on the pop [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Another Record on the Pornograph" [sic] by the delightfully named > Mopsy Strange Kennedy [snip] I don't think Diane's (alleged) 1965 song by Esquerita (which has the same title as the well-documented 1967 song "by Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels") is the same opus as Ryder's. It just doesn't seem likely to me that Ryder would have claimed to have composed it if it had been taken from Esquerita. So, I'll "go on record" as crediting Mitch Ryder as the earliest known user of the phrase/meme "sock it to me" -- and congratulate you for once again having done superb research (not everyone can outshine Ben Zimmer). If OED were convinced that the alleged 1965 recording by Esquerita existed and contained the phrase, then Esquerita would be credited by OED even though the actual release came in 1987 or 1990 or 1994. But proof of the 1965 recording's existence is lacking as far as I can tell. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > > This is true, but Otis Redding did not write "sock it to me" into the > > lyrics. Aretha Franklin added the phrase to her version of the song. By [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks. Is there a usage of the exact phrase, "sock it to me," that > can be cited prior to Aretha's version came out? I don't quite understand what the mystery is. "To sock it to" someone has been around for ages. It wasn't a fixed phrase, it was a *verb*. It's in Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi," for example. Life on the Mississippi by Twain, Mark Chapter 43 The Art of Inhumation A rich man won't have anything but your very best [coffin]; and you can just pile it on, too--pile it on and sock it to him--he won't ever holler. Google Books has 43 hits before 1950. Examples: Dialect Notes - Page 237 by American Dialect Society - 1939 sock It to him = -give it to him without mercy." --hit him hard." " let him have it. [Vulgar in Michigan. -- GH Cf. p. To.] Samuel the Seeker - Page 212 by Upton Sinclair - 1910 " I am going," said the boy simply; and the burglar slapped his thigh in delight. " Go on! " he chuckled. " Sock it to him, Sammy! ... I find that the Detroit Tigers used it "Sock it to 'em, Tigers" as their motto from 1965 on, including a World Series victory in 1968. I suppose you're saying the "me" is puzzling, because in normal life, people rarely beg to be hit. This pop-media "Sock it to me" of the 1960s appeared to switch it to a sexual meaning, being uttered by women, and also into a sort of a nearly meaningless "Tell me, lay it on me." SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux [snip] > I don't quite understand what the mystery is. [snip] > I suppose you're saying the "me" is puzzling, because in normal life, > people rarely beg to be hit. This pop-media "Sock it to me" of the 1960s > appeared to switch it to a sexual meaning, being uttered by women, and > also into a sort of a nearly meaningless "Tell me, lay it on me." I think we have a classic example of a meme in the phrase, "sock it to me." Judy Carne wasn't called the "sock it to me girl" without a faddish popularization of the basic phrase. Perhaps we should re-consider Dawkins' landmark work [excerpt from OED]: 1976 R. Dawkins Selfish Gene xi. 206 The new soup is the soup of human culture. We need a name for the new replicator, a noun which conveys the idea of a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation. 'Mimeme' comes from a suitable Greek root, but I want a monosyllable that sounds a bit like 'gene'. I hope my classicist friends will forgive me if I abbreviate mimeme to meme .. It should be pronounced to rhyme with 'cream'. Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.