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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006BrE: How on earth did/do you know
Hello: For BrE speakers, is the choice of the past tense (vs. the present tense) arbitrary in the last sentence here (i.e. "did," "was") or is the past mandated (at least in more traditional contexts) by the British politeness? I.e. could it be too strong/straighforward to pose the question in the present? ("How on earth DO you know that my chauffeur IS called Crane?"). -------- She lingered to admire the motor, which was new, and a fairer creature than the vermilion giant that had borne Aunt Juley to her doom three years before. "Presumably it's very beautiful," she said. "How do you like it, Crane?" "Come, let's be starting," repeated her host. "How on earth did you know that my chauffeur was called Crane?" E. M. Forster: Howards End, p. 184 http://tinyurl.com/ylp7l5 -------- Thank you. Marius Hancu > For BrE speakers, is the choice of the past tense (vs. the present > tense) arbitrary in the last sentence here (i.e. "did," "was") or is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > present? ("How on earth DO you know that my chauffeur IS called > Crane?"). [quoting:] > "Presumably it's very beautiful," she said. "How do you like it, > Crane?" > > "Come, let's be starting," repeated her host. "How on earth did you > know that my chauffeur was called Crane?" This is not a BrE vs. non-BrE issue -- in AmE, too, "did" would be usual in the second sentence. My intuition is that it's referring to a now-past act (here, the utterance of that first sentence) so you ask "how *did* you know [the facts that led you to say that previous sentence]". It's not a matter of politeness, at least in AmE.  SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> For BrE speakers, is the choice of the past tense (vs. the present >> tense) arbitrary in the last sentence here (i.e. "did," "was") or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > previous sentence]". It's not a matter of politeness, at least in > AmE. I agree that the difference is not one of politeness. For me, "did you know" concedes that the man's name is Crane; "do you know" doesn't. > >> For BrE speakers, is the choice of the past tense (vs. the present > >> tense) arbitrary in the last sentence here (i.e. "did," "was") or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > you know" concedes that the man's name is Crane; "do you know" > doesn't. More or less the same for me too, except that I would say that "do you know" doesn't *necessarily* concede that the man's name is Crane. In conversation a lot depends on surrounding context, intonation and expression. In fact, in this case the "how on earth" in "how on earth do you know that my chauffeur is called Crane?" gives me the strong impression that the speaker *is* conceding the fact - he is so surprised that the woman knows it. I also agree that in this context (expecially after "how on earth") "did" is not noticeably more polite than "do", but it might be worth pointing out that sometimes it can be. For example, a shop assistant might say "did you want a bag with that?" as a slightly less direct and more polite form of "do you want a bag with that?" (But for some unknown reason I find the former very mildly irritating - probably just me!) matt271829-n...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > For example, a shop assistant > might say "did you want a bag with that?" as a slightly less direct and > more polite form of "do you want a bag with that?" Yes. Thanks. Marius Hancu >>For BrE speakers, is the choice of the past tense (vs. the present >>tense) arbitrary in the last sentence here (i.e. "did," "was") or is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > know [the facts that led you to say that previous sentence]". It's not a > matter of politeness, at least in AmE. For me, it is just another example of reported speech. Not quite the same as "I said he was called Crane", but following the same pattern. Reported speech usually, although not always, puts the verb back one tense. A sort of equivalent to the Latin and German use of the subjunctive. SignatureRob Bannister > >>"Come, let's be starting," repeated her host. "How on earth did you > >>know that my chauffeur was called Crane?" > For me, it is just another example of reported speech. Not quite the > same as "I said he was called Crane", but following the same pattern. > Reported speech usually, although not always, puts the verb back one > tense. A sort of equivalent to the Latin and German use of the subjunctive. That's an interesting tack. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. Marius Hancu |
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