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Brooklyn (FLCIA) style pizza revisited

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Buckwheat Soba - 08 Nov 2006 17:21 GMT
The matter of Domino's (an Upper Midwest company that franchises a product
called "pizza") recently marketed "Brooklyn Style Pizza" is the subject of
this interesting article in the New York (LCIA) Times:

http://tinyurl.com/y59cc9
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08domino.html?
em&ex=1163134800&en=be2fc7003e366dfe&ei=5087%0A

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

tinwhistler - 08 Nov 2006 20:07 GMT
> The matter of Domino's (an Upper Midwest company that franchises a product
> called "pizza")
a

The founder of Domino's has, according to reports, been a leading
supporter of pro-life causes -- that's a preliminary "aside."  The
first cite in OED2's entry for "pizza, n." is from 1935.  There
is much more to consider about the word origin, however; see

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpies.html#pizza

"The term pizza is clouded in some ambiguity, though it may derive from
an Old Italian word meaning a point, which in turn led to the Italian
word pizzicare, to pinch or pluck. The word shows up for the first time
in print as a Neapolitan dialect word--piza or picea--about 1000 A.D.,
possibly referring to the manner in which something is plucked from a
hot oven...While many Mediterranean cultures and regions of Italy have
long had their versions of flatbreads...the baked flatbread most people
now think of as pizza originated in Naples, and was a favorite snack of
occupying Spanish soldiers at the Taverna Cerriglio in the 17th
century. The soft, baked crispy dough that the Neapolitans called
sfiziosa would be folded over into a libretto (little book) and
consumed in the hand. It was baked by men called pizzaioli, who worked
in small shops called laboratori. By the middle of the 19th century the
word pizza had become common parlance for the food item..."
---Dictionary of Italian Food and Drink, John Mariani [Broadway
Books:New York] 1998 (p. 196-199)

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/2006/2/2006_2_30.shtml

...Cheese, the crowning ingredient, was not added until 1889, when the
Royal Palace commissioned the Neapolitan pizzaiolo Raffaele Esposito to
create a pizza in honor of the visiting Queen Margherita. Of the three
contenders he created, the Queen strongly preferred a pie swathed in
the colors of the Italian flag: red (tomato), green (basil), and white
(mozzarella). ...
Although non-Italians could partake of pizza as early as 1905, when the
venerable Lombardi's-the nation's first licensed
pizzeria-opened its doors in Lower Manhattan, most middle-class
Americans stuck to boiled fish and toast....

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Mike Lyle - 08 Nov 2006 20:34 GMT
> > The matter of Domino's (an Upper Midwest company that franchises a product
> > called "pizza")
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> possibly referring to the manner in which something is plucked from a
> hot oven...[...]

OED, on the other hand, is more exhaustive in its caution (lost
typography in copying):

Pizza:
[< Italian regional (Naples) pizza (1531), of uncertain origin, app.
orig. from the region of Abruzzo and its vicinity; perh. < an
unattested Langobardic cognate of Old High German bizzo bite, piece
bitten off, morsel, lump, cake made of flour (see BIT n.2). Cf.
post-classical Latin piza, pizza flat bread (from 997 in central
Italian sources; also in 14th cent. as pissa), flat bread, app. with a
topping of cheese (14th cent. in central Italian sources). Cf. PITTA
n.2
 A derivation ult. < ancient Greek  flat cake (see PLACENTA n.) has
also been suggested, but is unlikely.]

Pitta:
[Partly < modern Hebrew pitt?h (< Balkan Judaeo-Spanish pita slightly
leavened flat bread), partly < the etymon of the latter, modern Greek ,
,  bread, cake, pie, pitta (a1108 in medieval Greek as ), partly <
Serbian and Croatian pita (1685), and partly perh. also < other
languages of the Balkans (cf. Albanian pite, Bulgarian pita); further
etymology uncertain and disputed.
 The relationship of the forms in the different European languages is
unclear. Various ancient Greek etymons have been suggested, but the
word appears to be of fairly recent appearance in Greek (as is
suggested by the variable spelling); also, a plausible transmission
from ancient Greek into the various other modern languages is difficult
to establish. Modern Hebrew pitt?h is written as if descended from an
Aramaic form (cf. Old Western Aramaic pitt, Eastern Aramaic pitt,
related to Palestinian colloquial Arabic fatte crumb, piece of bread)
but there is no continuity between them. The Arabic word for this type
of bread is kimj (< Persian kumj). Turkish pide (1890) is a loanword,
prob. < Greek.
 An ultimate origin in Germanic has been suggested by G. Princi
Braccini (Archivio Glottologico Italiano 64 (1979 ) 42-89), perh. < an
unattested Gothic *bita, cognate with Old High German bizzo bite,
morsel, lump, cake made of flour (see PIZZA n.), whence the word spread
first into Rhaeto-Romance and the languages of the western Balkans, and
then beyond, cf. Romansh (Engadine) petta, Ladin (Ampezzano) peta,
Friulian peta, all in sense 'thin flat bread', post-classical Latin
petta, a kind of bread or flat cake (1249, 1297 in Friulian sources),
Albanian pet? thin layer of dough or pastry crust, Vlach pit pie,
tart, Romanian regional pit bread, Hungarian pite pie, tart (1598);
Italian regional (Calabria) pitta pitta, is prob. < Greek. However, the
theory of Germanic origin presents certain phonological difficulties.
An alternative theory has been proposed by J. Kramer (Balkan-Archiv
14-15 (1990 ) 220-31) who sees the word as ult. of Illyrian origin.]

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Mike.

tinwhistler - 08 Nov 2006 22:01 GMT
> OED, on the other hand, is more exhaustive in its caution (lost
> typography in copying):

My OED2 (3d version, CD-ROM) doesn't seem to have that data, which I
agree is extensive, exhausting, and possibly exhaustive.  (Makes me
hungry.)  Here's a link to the Wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Mike Lyle - 08 Nov 2006 22:09 GMT
> > OED, on the other hand, is more exhaustive in its caution (lost
> > typography in copying):
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza

I'm using the online version, so I've forgotten how the CD is laid out.
Has it got something like an "Etymology" button among "Pronunciation"
and others along the top of the entry? Or is that new to OED3?

Signature

Mike.

tinwhistler - 08 Nov 2006 22:48 GMT
> I'm using the online version, so I've forgotten how the CD is laid out.
> Has it got something like an "Etymology" button among "Pronunciation"
> and others along the top of the entry? Or is that new to OED3?

The entry for "pizza, n." is the first one for which, when I click on
the "Etymology" button at the top of the screen, nothing happens.
Repeated clicks don't work either.  So I guess the online subscription
has a lagniappe.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~
Garrett Wollman - 08 Nov 2006 23:15 GMT
>The entry for "pizza, n." is the first one for which, when I click on
>the "Etymology" button at the top of the screen, nothing happens.
>Repeated clicks don't work either.  So I guess the online subscription
>has a lagniappe.

Works for me.  I had no idea, BTW, that Brits write "pita" with two
t's.  Do they pronounce it /'pIt@/ as the spelling would suggest?

-GAWollman

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Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

tinwhistler - 08 Nov 2006 23:25 GMT
> >The entry for "pizza, n." is the first one for which, when I click on
> >the "Etymology" button at the top of the screen, nothing happens.
> >Repeated clicks don't work either.  So I guess the online subscription
> >has a lagniappe.
>
> Works for me.

All I get for pizza's etymology is "It., = pie"  Is yours a 4th or
later version?

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Garrett Wollman - 09 Nov 2006 00:05 GMT
>All I get for pizza's etymology is "It., = pie"  Is yours a 4th or
>later version?

Sorry, I didn't quite follow the conversation properly.  I used the
online edition.

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

Roland Hutchinson - 09 Nov 2006 05:44 GMT
>>The entry for "pizza, n." is the first one for which, when I click on
>>the "Etymology" button at the top of the screen, nothing happens.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Works for me.  I had no idea, BTW, that Brits write "pita" with two
> t's.  Do they pronounce it /'pIt@/ as the spelling would suggest?

Yes, they do.

They also say "pasta" funny.

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Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.

the Omrud - 09 Nov 2006 09:06 GMT
Garrett Wollman <wollman@csail.mit.edu> had it:

> >The entry for "pizza, n." is the first one for which, when I click on
> >the "Etymology" button at the top of the screen, nothing happens.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Works for me.  I had no idea, BTW, that Brits write "pita" with two
> t's.  Do they pronounce it /'pIt@/ as the spelling would suggest?

Yes (if that's close to "pitter"), although it's the pronunciation
which is driving the spelling - I would be surprised by either
"pita" or "pitta", but I pronounce them the same.  This comes up here
from time to time.

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David
=====

Django Cat - 09 Nov 2006 17:48 GMT
> Garrett Wollman <wollman@csail.mit.edu> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> "pita" or "pitta", but I pronounce them the same.  This comes up here
> from time to time.

Maybe The Ent could go with 'Peter Bread'.

DC
Millicent Tendency - 09 Nov 2006 21:06 GMT
>> Garrett Wollman <wollman@csail.mit.edu> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Maybe The Ent could go with 'Peter Bread'.

I have been toying with foodie ones, like Gary Pacho (just call me
"Gaz").

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Millicent Tendency
(TEFKATHE)

LFS - 08 Nov 2006 23:06 GMT
>>>The matter of Domino's (an Upper Midwest company that franchises a product
>>>called "pizza")
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> OED, on the other hand, is more exhaustive in its caution (lost
> typography in copying):

<snip definitions of pizza and pitta>

The names are similar but the contemporary versions, at least, are quite
different. Is it just different flour? Or is it the flinging around of
pizza dough that eliminates whatever makes the pocket in pitta?

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Mike Lyle - 08 Nov 2006 23:24 GMT
[...]
> <snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>
> The names are similar but the contemporary versions, at least, are quite
> different. Is it just different flour? Or is it the flinging around of
> pizza dough that eliminates whatever makes the pocket in pitta?

I think it's the thinness and a very high oven temp which cause the
pocket. (Compare puris.) Claudia Roden says to get the oven to maximum
temperature, and has the suggestive phrase, "If your oven does not get
hot enough to make a good pouch..."

Signature

Mike.

Mike Page - 09 Nov 2006 21:33 GMT
><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>
>The names are similar but the contemporary versions, at least, are quite
>different. Is it just different flour? Or is it the flinging around of
>pizza dough that eliminates whatever makes the pocket in pitta?

It's probably mainly the effect of the topping that has the
effect of preventing the dough from rising and cooking around the
bubbles of air. A pizza with a dough base will cook for half an
hour or more, so the air mainly disperses, whereas a pitta is
done in a few minutes.

Mike Page
LFS - 09 Nov 2006 21:43 GMT
>><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> hour or more, so the air mainly disperses, whereas a pitta is
> done in a few minutes.

I don't think that provides a complete explanation. A pitta base with a
pizza topping still puffs up. (Don't ask me how I know that: the
vestiges of a memory of Cubs experimenting in my kitchen still troubles me.)

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Mike Lyle - 09 Nov 2006 21:54 GMT
> >><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> pizza topping still puffs up. (Don't ask me how I know that: the
> vestiges of a memory of Cubs experimenting in my kitchen still troubles me.)

Huh! Mike Lyle's explanation not good enough for us, eh? eh? Not even
when backed up by no less than Claudia Roden. Don't worry: we can take
a hint, Claudie and me. I'm going down the garden to eat worms. Short
thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.

Signature

Mike.

HVS - 09 Nov 2006 22:14 GMT
On 09 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote

> Huh! Mike Lyle's explanation not good enough for us, eh? eh?

When'd you turn Canadian?

> I'm going down the garden to eat worms. Short thin slimy ones
> slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.

They sorta snap off when you try to pull 'em out of permafrost,
though...

(Reminds me:  pub quiz question last Tuesday was "How many hearts
does an earthworm have?"  We got it wrong.)

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Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Mike Lyle - 09 Nov 2006 22:25 GMT
[...]
> (Reminds me:  pub quiz question last Tuesday was "How many hearts
> does an earthworm have?"  We got it wrong.)

Well, don't leave us in suspense: how many? (Actually, I'd have
hazarded the answer "none".) Subsidiary question if I'm wrong: can it
have a cardiac arrest in one of them and survive?

Signature

Mike.

HVS - 09 Nov 2006 22:25 GMT
On 09 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote

> [...]
>> (Reminds me:  pub quiz question last Tuesday was "How many
>> hearts does an earthworm have?"  We got it wrong.)
>
> Well, don't leave us in suspense: how many? (Actually, I'd have
> hazarded the answer "none".)

That's what we guessed, but the official answer was "ten".

> Subsidiary question if I'm wrong:
> can it have a cardiac arrest in one of them and survive?

The explanation was that you can chop it into 10 living parts, so
yeah, probably...

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Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Mike Lyle - 10 Nov 2006 00:18 GMT
> On 09 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> The explanation was that you can chop it into 10 living parts, so
> yeah, probably...

Ah, but that's a myth: you don't actually get two live worms if you
chop one in half. What I can't remember is if you get a single
surviving, if regrettably truncated, worm plus a dead bit, or a single
dead one in what soldiers call "kit form".

Signature

Mike.

Robert Bannister - 10 Nov 2006 00:21 GMT
> On 09 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> That's what we guessed, but the official answer was "ten".

Curses. I thought it was eight. I've gone off your pub.

Signature

Rob Bannister

LFS - 09 Nov 2006 22:27 GMT
>>>><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> a hint, Claudie and me. I'm going down the garden to eat worms. Short
> thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.

Oh dear, what have I missed?

<searches upthread>

Yes, I'm convinced by you and Claudia, rather than the Page Conjecture
(no doubt swiped from "Leaven Heaven: The Science of Dough" by Gawcott
Tingewick)

Please don't do the worm thing <shudders>

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Mike Page - 10 Nov 2006 15:41 GMT
>>>>><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>(no doubt swiped from "Leaven Heaven: The Science of Dough" by Gawcott
>Tingewick)

Sound as he is on many matters, Tingewick had a blind spot with
the foreign breads. Barton Hartshorn's 'Battered to death: Across
Europe with yeast and mixing bowl' is more reliable on anything
East of the Rhone.

>Please don't do the worm thing <shudders>

A delicacy compared with 'snake's eye and dog turd pie', and you
particularly don't want to hear about the serving suggestion.

Mike Page
Wood Avens - 10 Nov 2006 00:08 GMT
>Short
>thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.

Oh dear.  Not only STS, but when I were a nipper i was "long thin
slimy ones" and "short fat fuzzy ones".

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Katy Jennison

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Mike Lyle - 10 Nov 2006 00:13 GMT
> >Short
> >thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.
>
> Oh dear.  Not only STS, but when I were a nipper i was "long thin
> slimy ones" and "short fat fuzzy ones".

Your version, as ever, is right.

Signature

Mike.

Amethyst Deceiver - 10 Nov 2006 14:17 GMT
>> Short
>> thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.
>
> Oh dear.  Not only STS, but when I were a nipper i was "long thin
> slimy ones" and "short fat fuzzy ones".

While I had "long thin slimy ones" and "short fat juicy ones".

Signature

Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary

Wood Avens - 10 Nov 2006 14:51 GMT
>>> Short
>>> thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>While I had "long thin slimy ones" and "short fat juicy ones".

Juicy is more worm-like than fuzzy, which I agree sounds more like
caterpillars.  But fuzzy seems to me to go better with the next lines
(in my version), which were

"Long thin slimy ones
Slip down easily
Short fat fuzzy ones don't;
Short fat fuzzy ones
Stick in your teeth
And the juice goes
SHLP!  SHLP!  SHLP!"

I always assumed that it was the fuzz which stuck in the teeth.

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Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

Amethyst Deceiver - 10 Nov 2006 14:16 GMT
> Huh! Mike Lyle's explanation not good enough for us, eh? eh? Not even
> when backed up by no less than Claudia Roden. Don't worry: we can take
> a hint, Claudie and me. I'm going down the garden to eat worms. Short
> thin slimy ones slip down easily; big fat furry ones STICK.

I think you'll find the big fat furry ones are caterpillars.
HTH HAND SQUIRM
Mike Page - 10 Nov 2006 15:32 GMT
>>><snip definitions of pizza and pitta>
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>pizza topping still puffs up. (Don't ask me how I know that: the
>vestiges of a memory of Cubs experimenting in my kitchen still troubles me.)
Do you mean a pitta base that has already been cooked? Or
uncooked dough? If cooked, then the pocket is already formed and
it is sealed on each side and so it puffs up.

Mike Page
John Holmes - 11 Nov 2006 08:31 GMT
> It's probably mainly the effect of the topping that has the
> effect of preventing the dough from rising and cooking around the
> bubbles of air. A pizza with a dough base will cook for half an
> hour or more, so the air mainly disperses, whereas a pitta is
> done in a few minutes.

I find pittas are not very good for pizza bases because they won't sit
still while I try to put the toppings on.
http://lamington.nrsm.uq.edu.au/Documents/Birds/noisypitta.htm
They are pretty, though.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Robert Bannister - 09 Nov 2006 00:33 GMT
> Pizza:
> [< Italian regional (Naples) pizza (1531), of uncertain origin, app.
> orig. from the region of Abruzzo and its vicinity; perh. < an
> unattested Langobardic cognate of Old High German bizzo bite
 Cf. PITTA
> n.2>
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> languages of the Balkans (cf. Albanian pite, Bulgarian pita); further
> etymology uncertain and disputed.

It just shows how easy it is to make false etymologies. I always assumed
pitta, pizza, pâte, pâté, paste, pastry, pie were all cognates.
Signature

Rob Bannister

tinwhistler - 08 Nov 2006 23:16 GMT
> ...Cheese, the crowning ingredient, was not added until 1889

Many websites claim that the addition of cheese to pizza came in 1889;
the Wiki article below suggests that pies around 1830 in Naples had
cheese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza

...A description of pizza in Naples around 1830 is given by the french
writer and food expert Alexandre Dumas in his work "Le Corricolo",
Chapter VIII [2]. He writes that pizza was the only food of the humble
people in Naples during winter, and that "in Naples pizza is flavored
with oil, lard, tallow, cheese, tomato, or anchovies"....

I'm thinking it was mozzarella cheese that was first used at the
later date.  The classic Italian mozzarella is cured in brine prior to
sale, while the US variant has a short water-processing before sale;
see:

http://www.winewebcentral.com/triooftrips/cheeses.html

"...  Today, Wisconsin cheesemakers use the same traditional methods
of producing this versatile cheese. As a Pasta Filata cheese, the curds
are kneaded, then stretched and formed into balls or logs. However,
this cheese is not cured in brine or aged like the low-moisture
Mozzarella we are most familiar with. Instead, it is eaten fresh, only
a few days old. To keep this cheese fresh, the balls are submerged in
water...."

I seem to recall reading a conspiracy theory about mozzarella once, to
the effect that no one in the US could get that popular cheese without
dealing with the Mob, and that it was thanks to the U of Wisconsin that
the monopoly was finally broken.  No support today for that on
Googling, however.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Pat Durkin - 09 Nov 2006 01:49 GMT
>> ...Cheese, the crowning ingredient, was not added until 1889
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> the monopoly was finally broken.  No support today for that on
> Googling, however.

Here's a question (because all the TV chefs are busy promoting not just
Italian mozzarella, but mozzarella di bufalo):  how come there are no
tourism photos of water buffalo grazing on the meadows or hillsides of
Italy?  Do you think the word "bufalo" might be just a marketing scheme
(remember when fine chianti was being sold that the Italian vintners had
enriched with oxblood [that's another one--how come oxtail,
oxblood--don't they use regular cows sometime]?  What population of
buffalo would it take to supply the world with mozzarella di bufalo?
tinwhistler - 09 Nov 2006 03:22 GMT
> Here's a question (because all the TV chefs are busy promoting not just
> Italian mozzarella, but mozzarella di bufalo):  how come there are no
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> oxblood--don't they use regular cows sometime]?  What population of
> buffalo would it take to supply the world with mozzarella di bufalo?

At least the internet has a pic of the grazing beasts:

http://www.mozzarelladibufala.org/latte.4.gif

The US uses 646 million tons of WI mozzarella each year just for pizza,
according to http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=124783

The above food site (my prior post) suggests that low-moisture
mozzarella is a feature of the Italian product; a big US organization
claims that it is the US mozzarella that has the low moister; see

http://www.usdec.org/Products/CheeseSpecs/content.cfm?Itemnumber=420

"...Mozzarella is a semi-soft cheese generally used in cooking and by
the foodservice and food processing manufacturing industries. U.S.
cheese makers produce a number of mozzarella types: whole milk,
low-moisture, part-skim, low-moisture part-skim and individually quick
frozen, pre-shredded mozzarella. Typically, the Italian-style
mozzarella has higher moisture, while U.S. mozzarella is usually a
low-moisture product. Since low-moisture mozzarella is more applicable
to foodservice products, leading pizza chains are the number one users
of U.S. mozzarella...."

"Al-dente" [dry] seems to be the desired quality of Italian pasta and
cheese.  Claims about mozzarella  are all over the web; eg:

http://www.mozzarelladibufala.org/allestimento.htm

"Buffalo milk is not for drinking and is used exclusively for making
mozzarella. Indeed, it is so nutritious and so rich in fat and cassein
that it would be indigestible over the breakfast table, whereas it is
the best for the cheese industry."

One (or more) site(s) claims Pizza Hut adds silicon, a non-FDA
approved-substance, to pizza.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Pat Durkin - 09 Nov 2006 03:36 GMT
> At least the internet has a pic of the grazing beasts:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> to foodservice products, leading pizza chains are the number one users
> of U.S. mozzarella...."

Say, thanks for doing my research for me.  In addition to the info
above, since most of the descriptions mention the stringiness of the
cheese, I can add that I recall when the little logs of "string cheese"
were first marketed.  The articles described them as mozzarella, and, I
believe, also called them Syrian string cheese.

Nowadays they are sold in handy packages for kids to take to school and
share.  Hands don't get too dirty/sticky, and the logs can be passed
around to share a bite.  The ones I have tried, and most mozzarella in
general, needs a bit of salt.  But then, I can salt my palm, or the back
of my hand (as for a shot of tequila or a radish, or a hard-cooked egg),
and nosh away.
the Omrud - 09 Nov 2006 09:08 GMT
Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:

> Nowadays they are sold in handy packages for kids to take to school and
> share.  Hands don't get too dirty/sticky, and the logs can be passed
> around to share a bite.  The ones I have tried, and most mozzarella in
> general, needs a bit of salt.  But then, I can salt my palm, or the back
> of my hand (as for a shot of tequila or a radish, or a hard-cooked egg),
> and nosh away.

"hard-cooked"?  UK English has "hard-boiled".

Signature

David
=====

Buckwheat Soba - 09 Nov 2006 13:50 GMT
> Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> "hard-cooked"?  UK English has "hard-boiled".

So too in my dialect of AmE, and I think it's the majority contemporary
AmE usage.  However, I have seen "hard-cooked" in ancient cookbooks (early
1960s vintage).

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

Django Cat - 09 Nov 2006 17:55 GMT
> > Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> AmE usage.  However, I have seen "hard-cooked" in ancient cookbooks (early
> 1960s vintage).

Driftwood: "Two fried eggs, two poached eggs, two scrambled eggs, and
two medium-boiled eggs."
Fiorello: "And two hard-boiled eggs."
Driftwood: "And two hard-boiled eggs."
Tomasso: (Honk!)
Driftwood: "Make that three hard-boiled eggs."
Tomasso: (Honk!)
Driftwood: "And one duck egg."

DC
Pat Durkin - 09 Nov 2006 14:11 GMT
> Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> "hard-cooked"?  UK English has "hard-boiled".

This is funny, you know.  In the US, "hard-boiled" is more frequent
among the laity.  I was using "hard-cooked" (from the kitchen management
TV shows) to avoid comment.  And, in fact, since I put the eggs in the
pan when the water is cold, I turn the heat off or down once the water
reaches a boil. . .unless I get caught up in a conversation or game on
the internet, in which case the water boils away, and the whites get
brown spots or even turn completely tan within their shells.  Now
_those_ are some hard-boiled eggs.  It's good that eggs are cheap. .
.unless you go for the organic and no-cholesterol types.
LFS - 09 Nov 2006 15:27 GMT
>>Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> _those_ are some hard-boiled eggs.  It's good that eggs are cheap. .
> .unless you go for the organic and no-cholesterol types.

Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter experience...

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Tony Cooper - 09 Nov 2006 15:34 GMT
>>>Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter experience...

Teenagers will do the same thing.  
Signature


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Robert Bannister - 10 Nov 2006 00:26 GMT
>>> Pat Durkin <durk183@sbc.com> had it:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter experience...

I've done all of these. You can do similar things with potatoes with
little extra effort. It seems I can't always hear my kitchen timer from
my study when I'm playing computer games.

Signature

Rob Bannister

Amethyst Deceiver - 10 Nov 2006 14:09 GMT
>> This is funny, you know.  In the US, "hard-boiled" is more frequent
>> among the laity.  I was using "hard-cooked" (from the kitchen
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter
> experience...

An exploding egg can take a deal of enamel off a pan, just ask my mum...
Wood Avens - 10 Nov 2006 14:53 GMT
>> Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter
>> experience...
>
>An exploding egg can take a deal of enamel off a pan, just ask my mum...

And requires cleaning off all the surfaces of the kitchen, including
the ceiling.  ISFBE, too.

Signature

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

the Omrud - 10 Nov 2006 15:02 GMT
Wood Avens <woodavens@askjennison.com> had it:

> >> Leave them long enough and they explode - I speak from bitter
> >> experience...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> And requires cleaning off all the surfaces of the kitchen, including
> the ceiling.  ISFBE, too.

Not if it's in the microwave.

Signature

David
=====

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 09 Nov 2006 17:43 GMT
...

> > What population of
> > buffalo would it take to supply the world with mozzarella di bufalo?
...

> The US uses 646 million tons of WI mozzarella each year just for pizza,
> according to http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=124783
...

A bit over two tons per person?  Maybe they meant pounds.

Signature

Jerry Friedman

Garrett Wollman - 09 Nov 2006 17:55 GMT
>> The US uses 646 million tons of WI mozzarella each year just for pizza,
>> according to http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=124783

>A bit over two tons per person?  Maybe they meant pounds.

The first source I found in Google says "Total U.S. cheese production
in 2004, excluding cottage cheese, was 8.88 billion pounds."  That's
about 30 lb/person.

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

tinwhistler - 09 Nov 2006 20:15 GMT
> > The US uses 646 million tons of WI mozzarella each year just for pizza,
> > according to http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=124783
>
> A bit over two tons per person?  Maybe they meant pounds.

They did, and said so -- my bad.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
mb - 10 Nov 2006 06:07 GMT
> I'm thinking it was mozzarella cheese that was first used at the
> later date.  The classic Italian mozzarella is cured in brine prior to
> sale, while the US variant has a short water-processing before sale;
> see:

Cured in brine? Hey, this isn't white feta, it's mozarella. You keep it
in milk serum
( http://www.whatisinit.com/Termit.cfm?Alpha=W  )
("siero di latte"). Even some producers in the US have got the idea now.
tinwhistler - 10 Nov 2006 15:13 GMT
> Cured in brine? Hey, this isn't white feta, it's mozarella. You keep it
> in milk serum

Can you cite support for your statement?  (I tried a little Googling to
no avail.)

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
mb - 10 Nov 2006 22:00 GMT
> > Cured in brine? Hey, this isn't white feta, it's mozarella. You keep it
> > in milk serum
>
> Can you cite support for your statement?  (I tried a little Googling to
> no avail.)

First, a big mea culpa for my pressing the answer button before really
reading: Of course *it is first cured in brine*, following which,
however, it is supposed to be transferred to diluted milk serum in
order to take the salt away and keep the cheese fresh. That some people
sell it in brine (wrong, wrong) doesn't mean much.

When you buy your good quality mozzarella in Italy, you'll see on the
package some small print that says "conservata in siero di latte".

Didn't invest much time on Google either, but got one page that roughly
describes both traditional and newfangled ways to do it:
http://www.formaggitaliani.it/curiosita/9.asp
chapter: "Confezionamento e Conservazione"
tinwhistler - 10 Nov 2006 22:12 GMT
> Of course *it is first cured in brine*, following which,
> however, it is supposed to be transferred to diluted milk serum in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> When you buy your good quality mozzarella in Italy, you'll see on the
> package some small print that says "conservata in siero di latte".

Thanks for your posting -- I can't read the Italian but I'm sure it
supports your revised statement.  Interesting (maybe some of this
should be cross-posted to the new "Mozzarella Redux" thread.)

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
DianeE - 09 Nov 2006 01:27 GMT
> The matter of Domino's (an Upper Midwest company that franchises a product
> called "pizza") recently marketed "Brooklyn Style Pizza" is the subject of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08domino.html?
> em&ex=1163134800&en=be2fc7003e366dfe&ei=5087%0A
-----------------
It's interesting to me because of this:
“'We found that Brooklyners like to eat their pizza differently,' said Dana
Harville, a spokeswoman for Domino’s."

I'm a native Brooklynite.  Up until now I was not aware that there was a
such thing [Brooklyn dialect for "such a thing"] as a Brooklyner.

DianeE
Django Cat - 09 Nov 2006 15:46 GMT
> --
> Buckwheat Soba

Sal, I liked.  Looked a bit like Al Pacino, hung out on some Brooklyn
Avenue chewing a tootpick [sic] and looking world-weary (the young John
Travolta just walked down the other side of the street off to dance
class in his white suit).  Now we have to get used to some barefoot
hick in dungarees and a brokedown straw hat, sucking on a corncob pipe.

Consistancy is all I ask for.

DC
CDB - 09 Nov 2006 16:15 GMT
>> --
>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> used to some barefoot hick in dungarees and a brokedown straw hat,
> sucking on a corncob pipe.

I've been toying with the notion that Prof. Kebab's chief reason for
making this last change was to acquire the initials B.S.
R H Draney - 09 Nov 2006 16:28 GMT
Django Cat filted:

>> --
>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Consistancy is all I ask for.

Funny the associations we make...for "Salvatore Volatile", I pictured an
absent-minded scientist, in a stained white coat, coke-bottle glasses and wild
shock of hair..."Buckwheat Soba" gives me the picture of a somewhat stocky
gentleman in a hachimaki....r

Signature

"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

Millicent Tendency - 09 Nov 2006 17:00 GMT
>Django Cat filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>shock of hair..."Buckwheat Soba" gives me the picture of a somewhat stocky
>gentleman in a hachimaki....r

For me it's more like a Jim Henson's Creature Shop creation,
commissioned but ultimately rejected for a *Star Wars* movie.

This new moniker of mine is only temporary, by the way. I was tired of
being an entity (entiting?); time to be a free man! Or woman, or
something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
but I'm looking for something more satisfying to stick with (and more
original; I see from Googling that neither Millicent nor Sybil is
quite as clever as I'd hoped).

Now, perhaps Linz will explain what she's up to conning that
jewellery....

And, speaking of silly names, where's our side order of Burgoo got to?

Signature

Millicent Tendency
(TEFKATHE)

Django Cat - 09 Nov 2006 17:42 GMT
> >Django Cat filted:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> --

No. 'Millicent Tendency' made me smile, Ent.  At least we're spared the
weather girls Claudia Periods and Lois Temperatures.

DC, and staying so.
the Omrud - 09 Nov 2006 18:36 GMT
Millicent Tendency <gguiri@yahoo.com> had it:

> This new moniker of mine is only temporary, by the way. I was tired of
> being an entity (entiting?); time to be a free man! Or woman, or
> something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
> but I'm looking for something more satisfying to stick with (and more
> original; I see from Googling that neither Millicent nor Sybil is
> quite as clever as I'd hoped).

Can I just warn you that, although I am happy with my current
identity, I rather regret that I have inadvertently overpowered any
online references to the original Omruds.

Signature

David
=====

Wood Avens - 09 Nov 2006 21:27 GMT
>Can I just warn you that, although I am happy with my current
>identity, I rather regret that I have inadvertently overpowered any
>online references to the original Omruds.

They aren't completely overpowered.  There's one reference on the
first page of a Google search.  And some of the others on that page
aren't you.

Signature

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

the Omrud - 09 Nov 2006 22:55 GMT
Wood Avens <woodavens@askjennison.com> had it:

> >Can I just warn you that, although I am happy with my current
> >identity, I rather regret that I have inadvertently overpowered any
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> first page of a Google search.  And some of the others on that page
> aren't you.

They are, you know.  All but the Norwegian-American soldier and the
real Omruds.  Gosh, don't I get around.

However, happily, I discover that a search for "omruds" yields
appropriate results.

Signature

David
=====

Daniel al-Autistiqui - 10 Nov 2006 17:26 GMT
>something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",

I first read that as "Sybil Usenet".

daniel mcgrath
Signature

Daniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende":
for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com"

Developmentally disabled;
has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder),
   Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,
   & periodic bouts of depression.
[This signature is under construction.]

mike.j.harvey@gmail.com - 10 Nov 2006 20:13 GMT
> >something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
>
> I first read that as "Sybil Usenet".

[irony]
That's ***SO*** relevant.
[/irony]

When are you going to apologise to all the friends of Graeme Thomas you
upset?
Daniel al-Autistiqui - 13 Nov 2006 15:38 GMT
>> >something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>When are you going to apologise to all the friends of Graeme Thomas you
>upset?

I still don't seem to understand what I did wrong in my post relating
to Graeme's death.

At any rate, I do not miss him *all* that much.

daniel mcgrath
Signature

Daniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende":
for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com"

Developmentally disabled;
has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder),
   Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,
   & periodic bouts of depression.
[This signature is under construction.]

Donna Richoux - 13 Nov 2006 16:40 GMT
> I still don't seem to understand what I did wrong in my post relating
> to Graeme's death.

There is an ancient saying, De mortuis nil nisi bonum. It translates as,
"Of the dead be nothing said but what is good," or more commonly, "Say
nothing but good of the dead."

You showed in another post that you understand what rudeness is and that
there are some things you do simply for the sake of politeness. This is
one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
defense. It would be really good if, in cases involving death, you can
rise above your autism and gain the maturity to stay silent.

Signature

Best -- Donna Richoux

Daniel al-Autistiqui - 13 Nov 2006 16:54 GMT
>one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
>negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no

What did I say that was (slightly) negative?

daniel mcgrath
Signature

Daniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende":
for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com"

Developmentally disabled;
has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder),
   Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,
   & periodic bouts of depression.
[This signature is under construction.]

HVS - 13 Nov 2006 16:56 GMT
On 13 Nov 2006, Daniel al-Autistiqui wrote

>> one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even
>> slightly negative, as yours was) about those who have just
>> died. Truth is no
>
> What did I say that was (slightly) negative?

As you know, people infer things from what is written.

Your comment that you viewed him as a "minor" poster could easily be
taken to imply that you meant "he wasn't very interesting" and that
"his death is no big deal".

Signature

Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Amethyst Deceiver - 13 Nov 2006 17:27 GMT
>>one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
>>negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
>
>What did I say that was (slightly) negative?

Go back and read your posts yourself. See if you can work it out. Ask
your mother if she can help you understand what you said that was
negative and why it was not the thing to say in this situation.
Signature

Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary

Donna Richoux - 13 Nov 2006 19:11 GMT
> >one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
> >negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
>
> What did I say that was (slightly) negative?

(Responded to via e-mail)
Daniel al-Autistiqui - 15 Nov 2006 17:01 GMT
>> >one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
>> >negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
>>
>> What did I say that was (slightly) negative?
>
>(Responded to via e-mail)

Donna, I've read what you wrote to me, but unfortunately I don't seem
to agree with you.

Maybe I had thought that the only person who might possibly get upset
over the kind of thing that I wrote would be Graeme himself -- except,
of course, that he died.  Now if we were dealing with someone who was
merely sick or injured or something, that would have been a different
matter to me.

daniel mcgrath
Signature

Daniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende":
for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com"

Developmentally disabled;
has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder),
   Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,
   & periodic bouts of depression.
[This signature is under construction.]

Tony Cooper - 15 Nov 2006 17:22 GMT
>>> >one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
>>> >negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>merely sick or injured or something, that would have been a different
>matter to me.

I may agree, argue, or discuss in this newsgroup, but I haven't
previously given advice.  I will here.

Daniel, drop this.  Just forget that it ever came up.  I don't think
you will ever understand why your statement rankled some, and I don't
think that some here will ever understand why you don't see why it was
a problem.  You have a very special mind, and a very special view of
things.  That specialness creates a gap that sometimes cannot be
bridged.

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

R J Valentine - 16 Nov 2006 02:57 GMT
} On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 12:01:48 -0500, Daniel al-Autistiqui
} <govende30@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
}
}>On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:11:31 +0100, trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
}>wrote:
}>
}>>Daniel al-Autistiqui <govende30@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
}>>
}>>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:24 +0100, trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
}>>> wrote:
}>>>
}>>> >one of them. It shocks people to hear anyone say negative (even slightly
}>>> >negative, as yours was) about those who have just died. Truth is no
}>>>
}>>> What did I say that was (slightly) negative?
}>>
}>>(Responded to via e-mail)
}>
}>Donna, I've read what you wrote to me, but unfortunately I don't seem
}>to agree with you.
}>
}>Maybe I had thought that the only person who might possibly get upset
}>over the kind of thing that I wrote would be Graeme himself -- except,
}>of course, that he died.  Now if we were dealing with someone who was
}>merely sick or injured or something, that would have been a different
}>matter to me.
}
} I may agree, argue, or discuss in this newsgroup, but I haven't
} previously given advice.  I will here.
}
} Daniel, drop this.  Just forget that it ever came up.  I don't think
} you will ever understand why your statement rankled some, and I don't
} think that some here will ever understand why you don't see why it was
} a problem.  You have a very special mind, and a very special view of
} things.  That specialness creates a gap that sometimes cannot be
} bridged.

Graeme who?

Signature

rjv

Pat Durkin - 10 Nov 2006 20:26 GMT
>>something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
>
> I first read that as "Sybil Usenet".

I like that one, Daniel.
Skitt - 10 Nov 2006 20:25 GMT
> This new moniker of mine is only temporary, by the way. I was tired of
> being an entity (entiting?); time to be a free man! Or woman, or
> something. Anyway, it was a toss-up between this and "Sybil Unrest",
> but I'm looking for something more satisfying to stick with (and more
> original; I see from Googling that neither Millicent nor Sybil is
> quite as clever as I'd hoped).

I liked "Lisa Catera", but that is old hat now.  In case you didn't know,
Cadillac had a model called Catera (1997-2001), and they used the slogan
"Lease a Catera" on TV.
Signature

Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

Sara Lorimer - 09 Nov 2006 20:20 GMT
> "Buckwheat Soba" gives me the picture of a somewhat stocky
> gentleman in a hachimaki....r

I get stuck on the "meech out and dutch / domebody's and / make this
murl a betta pace / ip do tan" and go no further.

Signature

SML

R H Draney - 10 Nov 2006 04:52 GMT
Sara Lorimer filted:

>> "Buckwheat Soba" gives me the picture of a somewhat stocky
>> gentleman in a hachimaki....r
>
>I get stuck on the "meech out and dutch / domebody's and / make this
>murl a betta pace / ip do tan" and go no further.

Otay....r

Signature

"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

Millicent Tendency - 09 Nov 2006 16:51 GMT
>> --
>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>class in his white suit).  Now we have to get used to some barefoot
>hick in dungarees and a brokedown straw hat, sucking on a corncob pipe.

No, I think you'll find it's genuine New York buckwheat -- otherwise
it'd be Buckwheat "Soba".

Signature

Millicent Tendency
(TEFKATHE)

Buckwheat Soba - 09 Nov 2006 18:58 GMT
> Consistancy is all I ask for.

Oy!

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

Mike Lyle - 09 Nov 2006 20:00 GMT
> > Consistancy is all I ask for.
>
> Oy!

Over-ruled. It's a portmanteau (QldE "port").

Signature

Mike.

Robin Bignall - 09 Nov 2006 22:55 GMT
>> --
>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Consistancy is all I ask for.

It appears that even the entity has discarded entitihood.  I can't
keep up.

(My spell checker wants to replace 'entitihood' by 'dentition'.
How're your teeth, RH?)
Signature

Robin
Herts, England

Maria - 10 Nov 2006 06:13 GMT
>> --
>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> John Travolta just walked down the other side of the street off to
> dance class in his white suit).

It's been more than 12 hours, and still no one seems to have commented
on Al Pacino "hung out on some Brooklyn Avenue..." [...]

Hung out to dry? Hanging out?

I'm pretty sure this is just another example of the differences between
BrE and AmE.

Signature

Maria

Buckwheat Soba - 10 Nov 2006 12:25 GMT
>>> --
>>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Hung out to dry? Hanging out?

I was wondering more about "some Brooklyn Avenue".  There is a Brooklyn
Avenue in Brooklyn (FLCIA), but I think DC meant "some Brooklyn avenue".

Al Pacino is from the Bronx, I believe, but he's played some characters
who were from Brooklyn, like the guy in _Dog Day Afternoon_.

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

the Omrud - 10 Nov 2006 12:51 GMT
Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it:

> >> --
> >> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I'm pretty sure this is just another example of the differences between
> BrE and AmE.

I'm sure you're right, although it's not formally correct in UK
English.  It's not elegant, but it's not all that strange.  It's
parallel to "I was sat in the kitchen", and means that he was hanging
out.  Teenagers now use "hanging" in place of "hanging out".

- Where have you been?
- Hanging, with my friends.

or even

- Hanging with my friends.

Signature

David
=====

Buckwheat Soba - 10 Nov 2006 12:27 GMT
> Teenagers now use "hanging" in place of "hanging out".
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> - Hanging with my friends.

That was starting to become dated slang during the latter part of my teen
years, which is further proof of the Kojak Theory.

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

Evan Kirshenbaum - 10 Nov 2006 16:18 GMT
>>> --
>>> Buckwheat Soba
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I'm pretty sure this is just another example of the differences
> between BrE and AmE.

I read it as a description of two things about Sal:

   [He] looked a bit like Al Pacino, [he] hung out on some Brooklyn
   avenue.

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Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
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