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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006never the less
Hi my name is faisal and i want to know when and where do we use these words "NEVER THE LESS" > my name is faisal and i want to know when and where do we use these > words Think of the expression "nevertheless" as a synonym for "however": MW11: : in spite of that : HOWEVER *her childish but nevertheless real delight — Richard Corbin*  SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > > my name is faisal and i want to know when and where do we use these > > words [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > : in spite of that : HOWEVER *her childish but nevertheless real > delight - Richard Corbin* Franke's answer is fine, but it implies another question that he doesn't answer: why did he write "nevertheless" (one word), whereas Faisal wrote it as three words "never the less"? Both are correct, and some prefer one and some the other. Personally I rarely write it at all (preferring "nonetheless", which means the same thing), but when I do write it I write it as one word. athel > dontbother wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Franke's answer is fine, but it implies another question that he > doesn't answer: why did he write "nevertheless" (one word), That's the standard way to write it in American. There are still Brits who write "to-day", but that's no longer standard. > whereas Faisal wrote it as three words "never the less"? Both > are correct, I would say that it depends on one's style manual. Mine does not allow "never the less" except in sentences that approximate this: "Never the less prepared of the two, John was nevertheless the less prepared yesterday, but he scored a perfect 100%, and his twin, only a 99." > and some prefer one and some the other. I don't deal with personal preferences -- except my own, of course. They fall into the same category as logos -- again, except my own, of course, which fall into the category of model usages. > Personally > I rarely write it at all (preferring "nonetheless", which means > the same thing), but when I do write it I write it as one word. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." dontbother <dontbother@mushmail.mom> had it: > > my name is faisal and i want to know when and where do we use these > > words [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > : in spite of that : HOWEVER *her childish but nevertheless real > delight ? Richard Corbin* Is it just me, or does it come in two flavours - "nevertheless" (however) and "never the less" (in spite of which). - Although I won't meet you, I am nevertheless willing to help you. - I will not meet you. Never the less, I am willing to help you. I've been staring at it too long. Is the second version Dead Wrong? SignatureDavid ===== > dontbother <dontbother@mushmail.mom> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > - Although I won't meet you, I am nevertheless willing to help > you. This seems a redundancy to me: "I will not meet you; neverhteless, I am willing to help you" seems better. > - I will not meet you. Never the less, I am willing to help > you. > > I've been staring at it too long. Is the second version Dead > Wrong? Not according to Athel. I would understand the three-word version as merely an orthographic variation of the one-word version. The two meanings you give are not different, IMHO. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > dontbother <dontbother@mushmail.mom> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I've been staring at it too long. Is the second version Dead Wrong? No. Which is to say, it works for me. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Hi > > my name is faisal and i want to know when and where do we use these > words > > "NEVER THE LESS" It's usually spelled as one word: "nevertheless". It's used when you've said one thing, and you then want to make another contrasting point that the reader might not be expecting to follow on. Example: "This is a low cost, but nevertheless very powerful intranet/internet email server". The word "nevertheless" gives the meaning of something like: "even though the product is low cost, and you might therefore not expect it to be particularly powerful, in fact it is." <snip> > Example: "This is a low cost, but nevertheless very powerful > intranet/internet email server". Probably shouldn't have a comma - I copied and pasted the sentence... that's my excuse! > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Probably shouldn't have a comma - I copied and pasted the > sentence... that's my excuse! The comma is the least of this sentence's problems. "But" and "nevertheless" mean the same thing and should not be used in the same clause to express contrast: the redundancy makes it ungrammatical, but even if someone rises to defend the grammaticality of this wretched writing, the style is egregious at best. "This is a low cost but very powerful intranet/internet email server" is sufficient to make the point. "This is a low cost intranet/internet email server; nevertheless, it is very powerful" is another possibility. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > "This is a low cost intranet/internet email server; nevertheless, it > is very powerful" is another possibility. But nevertheless, "but nevertheless" does emphasise the contrast. > dontbother wrote: >> > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > But nevertheless, "but nevertheless" does emphasise the > contrast. "But but" does too. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "This is a low cost but very powerful intranet/internet email > server" is sufficient to make the point. A hyphen so it says "low-cost", and we're done. > "This is a low cost intranet/internet email server; nevertheless, it > is very powerful" is another possibility. There too. SignatureJerry Friedman, hyphen-monger >> > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > There too. You're right. Thank you. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > >> > matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > >> > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > You're right. Thank you. Clearly an all-round bad example! > dontbother wrote: >> > dontbother wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Clearly an all-round bad example! You're right. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." >> matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> <snip> >>> Example: "This is a low cost, but nevertheless very powerful [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "This is a low cost intranet/internet email server; nevertheless, it > is very powerful" is another possibility. That's all fine, but what about the missing hyphen in "low-cost"? SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > dontbother wrote: >>> matt271829-news@yahoo.co.uk wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > That's all fine, but what about the missing hyphen in > "low-cost"? It's okay, Alec. Jerry Friedman found it. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." |
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