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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006"Cider cellar"
Hello. I've come across the following sentence: "It was a busy, and noisy, household. William Turner's shop was on the ground floor, where he could be seen busily lathering the genteel with his soft badger brush, and the basement next door was occupied by a cider cellar described euphemistically as a 'midnight concert room' ". (William Turner was J.M.W. Turner's father) Two doubts arise: 1) Is the "cider cellar" an actual cider cellar? I don't see why not, but the notion of "cider cellar" is not very common for me. It's a cellar where cider---instead of, say, wine---is kept, right? (Stupid question.) 2) In what way might it have been a "midnight concert room"? People went there, drank a lot (of cider??) and made lots of noise late at night? Thanks in advance. B. >Hello. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >B. Sounds like "cider cellar" and "midnight concert room" are other terms for a blind pig. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_pig  SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >Hello. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >cellar where cider---instead of, say, wine---is kept, right? (Stupid >question.) The phrases "cider cellar", "wine cellar" and "beer celler" are sometimes used to name places where cider, wine, and are sold and consumed -- bars. In the example quoted, the "cider cellar" was possibly called a "midnight concert room" so as to sound grander. It might also have been an illegal drinking place which was called a "midnight concert room" to disguise its true (illegal) purpose. >2) In what way might it have been a "midnight concert room"? People >went there, drank a lot (of cider??) and made lots of noise late at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >B. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >"beer celler" I first typed "caller" and then changed the 'a' to 'e', but I didn't notice the second typo. Oh dear. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Hello. >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> went there, drank a lot (of cider??) and made lots of noise late at >> night? It may be worth adding that cider, which I understand is innocous enough in the US, is strong drink in Britain, often stronger than beer even now, and in Turner senior's time was probably lethal stuff. Cider is a favourite tipple for vagrants and youngters out to get drunk quickly and economically. Alan Jones >>>Hello. >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > in Turner senior's time was probably lethal stuff. Cider is a favourite > tipple for vagrants and youngters out to get drunk quickly and economically. If you get the stuff that hasn't been pasteurized and leave it on a cool windowsill for a few days you can get that effect in the U.S. too. --Jeff SignatureOften war is waged only in order to show valor; thus an inner dignity is ascribed to war itself, and even some philosophers have praised it as an ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the pronouncement of the Greek who said, "War is an evil in as much as it produces more wicked men than it takes away." --Immanuel Kant Alan Jones ha scritto: [...] > >> "It was a busy, and noisy, household. William Turner's shop was on > >> the ground floor, where he could be seen busily lathering the > >> genteel with his soft badger brush, and the basement next door was > >> occupied by a cider cellar described euphemistically as a 'midnight > >> concert room' ". [...] > >> In the example quoted, the "cider cellar" was > > possibly called a "midnight concert room" so as to sound grander. It > > might also have been an illegal drinking place which was called a > > "midnight concert room" to disguise its true (illegal) purpose. It was "described" as such, I don't know by whom. > >> 2) In what way might it have been a "midnight concert room"? People > >> went there, drank a lot (of cider??) and made lots of noise late at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in Turner senior's time was probably lethal stuff. Cider is a favourite > tipple for vagrants and youngters out to get drunk quickly and economically. That's very helpful. So getting drunk on cider is not weird. Thanks everyone. B. > That's very helpful. So getting drunk on cider is not weird. I should say not. I still remember bits of my first visit to Somerset. SignatureRob Bannister Peter Duncanson wrote, in <d2i6l2tlpcq55ahtpm187fsuqga5ete59t@4ax.com> on Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:58 +0000: > >Hello. > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > >Thanks in advance. Given that the original quote includes 'euphemistically' it could have been slightly less euphemistically a 'disordely house'. SignatureNick Spalding Nick Spalding wrote, in <n437l2tvooqp2jjkgia44ehl9cbfovplg6@4ax.com> on Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:17:27 +0000: > Peter Duncanson wrote, in <d2i6l2tlpcq55ahtpm187fsuqga5ete59t@4ax.com> > on Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:58 +0000: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Given that the original quote includes 'euphemistically' it could have > been slightly less euphemistically a 'disordely house'. Damn - 'disorderly house'. SignatureNick Spalding > > ... it could have been slightly less euphemistically a 'disordely house'. > Damn - 'disorderly house'. How autological! SignatureMark Brader, Toronto Premature generalization is msb@vex.net the square root of all evil. > 1) Is the "cider cellar" an actual cider cellar? I don't see why not, > but the notion of "cider cellar" is not very common for me. It's a > cellar where cider---instead of, say, wine---is kept, right? (Stupid > question.) Cf. also wine cellar, root cellar, apple cellar, coal cellar, etc. -- all quite normal, varying for obvious local reasons. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
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