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[OT?] Machine-speak

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Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 01:45 GMT
I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not!  It could
very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite
definitely not.

It gave me the creeps, like in sf stories about robots taking over the
world and humans were just puppets they manipulated. At first I thought
someone ought to teach it better English but then... I'd feel such a
dork to be hoodwinked into conversing with a machine. What if you found
out that someone you were married to or went out with was a robot? It
was good to read in sf but...

Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was
the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
that's alright, innit?
Signature

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com

Pat Durkin - 10 Nov 2006 01:59 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
> did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
> that's alright, innit?

Oh, yes.  Politeness is not required for communication with a machine.
On the other hand, can you deal with the guilt of complete freedom from
consequences?
DianeE - 10 Nov 2006 02:30 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine! ....That was
> the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast....
----------------
You say "I hanged up" instead of "I hung up" in BrE, or was that just a
mistake?

DianeE
Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 02:52 GMT
> > ....That was the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast....
> ----------------
> You say "I hanged up" instead of "I hung up" in BrE, or was that just a
> mistake?

I think I always say 'hung up (the phone) on someone' eg just the other
day: "He was so furious he just about hung up on me".  But, writing in
this group...Ooops..newsgroup/forum one gets jittery and edits and
over-edits until confusion sets in. You can get hanged here, you know,
then hung, drawn and quartered..... But when harangued, even if not
harrassed, one can't get hung up about it all otherwise one can't hang
out with people or hang around them.   :-)

Thanks for pointing that out. It now looks funny.

Signature

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com

mb - 10 Nov 2006 04:30 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
> did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
> that's alright, innit?

You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet
the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no choice
to push a number.
That's when you'll start getting the serious shivers.
Peter Moylan - 10 Nov 2006 13:17 GMT
>> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech
>> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
>>  intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not!  It
>> could very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like
>> but quite definitely not.

> You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet
>  the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no
> choice to push a number. That's when you'll start getting the serious
>  shivers.

That's a different case, in my opinion. I've met a few of those, and
even forced some of them to connect me to a human. (The trick is to
mumble, so that the robot can't understand you.) In every such case,
however, I was the one who initiated the call. It's scarier, in my
opinion, when the robot is the one who calls you.

I've been hanging up on the ones who offer me a free vacation in Florida
ever since I discovered that the offer didn't include a plane ticket to
the USA. That's the simple case. The ones that scare me are where
there's suddenly the sound of a US ring tone, which is distinctly
different from an Australian ring tone. That's when I hang up quickly.

On a related note, here's a useful tip. If you ever buy anything from
Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my
knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail.

Signature

Peter Moylan                             http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses.  The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.  The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.

mb - 10 Nov 2006 20:20 GMT
> >> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech
> >> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> even forced some of them to connect me to a human. (The trick is to
> mumble, so that the robot can't understand you.)

That worked a couple years ago, when they had only started. Now the
robot answers: "I didn't understand you, would you please repeat?" on a
continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access to
the company's work force, not to help you.
Jitze Couperus - 11 Nov 2006 00:56 GMT
>> >> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech
>> >> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access to
>the company's work force, not to help you.

If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get
directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:

http://gethuman.com/us/           (For United Sates)

or

http://gethuman.com/uk/         (For United Kingdom)

These pages will tell you the magic sequence of how to
get through to a human with minimal finger jabbing

I have used it twice now with excellent results

Jitze
mb - 11 Nov 2006 03:44 GMT
> If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get
> directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I have used it twice now with excellent results

Good man. I owe you.
LFS - 11 Nov 2006 08:45 GMT
> If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get
> directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I have used it twice now with excellent results

A useful site - thanks, Jitze. The home page has a link to an article on
the art of turboing:

"Turboing refers to the actions of a customer who goes around the normal
technical support process by contacting a senior person in the chain of
command."

Why is it called turboing, I wonder?

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Peter Duncanson - 11 Nov 2006 11:27 GMT
>> If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get
>> directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Why is it called turboing, I wonder?

It looks like a metaphor derived from the turbocharger or "turbo
boost" on some sporty cars that makes the car go faster than it
otherwise would.

"Turboing" is a means of contacting a senior person faster than
would be achieved by going through the normaltechnical support
process.

It is a way of speeding things up.
Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Richard Bollard - 15 Nov 2006 03:58 GMT
[...]

>If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get
>directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Jitze

For Australia

http://gethuman.com.au/
Signature

Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.

John Holmes - 11 Nov 2006 05:39 GMT
>>>> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech
>>>> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> a continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access
> to the company's work force, not to help you.

This is the way our directory enquiries work now. I haven't heard of
anybody being successful in getting a number for a couple of years.
Everybody I know who has tried has given up in frustration, and several
of them are now in homes for the bewildered.

That comedy sketch of years ago about "Hang up and your dayam will be
refunded" had nothing on this.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
sage - 10 Nov 2006 22:16 GMT
> On a related note, here's a useful tip. If you ever buy anything from
> Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my
> knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail.

Bell Canada will stop nuisance faxes, if you give them the details. It's
worked for me.

Cheers, Sage
Robin Bignall - 10 Nov 2006 22:33 GMT
>>> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech
>>> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my
>knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail.

You get it by snailmail, too.  I bought a Dell in 1998, long ago
passed on to my son in France, and I still get monthly mailshots.
Signature

Robin
Herts, England

SherLok Merfy - 10 Nov 2006 21:32 GMT
> You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet
> the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no choice
> to push a number.
> That's when you'll start getting the serious shivers.

A rule is in my Telus phonebook, on page twenty-two, about ADAD
(automatic dialing and announcing devices). It says they're legal, but
only for public service announcements,
and what's more is that it has to identify the caller. Typically,
they're "prohibited" according to the rule about solicitation, that's
because they try to sell something by trying to tell me that I've just
won a trip, yada, yada, "to claim your prize, hit nine. If you're not
that stupid, hit eight." ...

If you hate fraud artists, call customer service and complain.
They should be able to block the number from calling anyone in Alberta
or B.C. if they can't do some snooping and prosecution. Once a spam
cop, always a spam cop.
_______
<a href="http://www.mynumo.com/SherLok">BrewJay's Babble Bin</a>
R H Draney - 10 Nov 2006 04:41 GMT
Solo Thesailor filted:

>I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
>did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
>intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not!  It could
>very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite
>definitely not.

Did it tell you to watch Edison Carter on Network 23?...that's actually a
Canadian accent....

>Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was
>the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
>that's alright, innit?

It's alright even if it *is* a person...when the party on the other end of the
line (who called *you* without permission) refuses to acknowledge anything you
say, they've forfeited any pretense at civility....r

Signature

"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

Oleg Lego - 10 Nov 2006 06:07 GMT
The R H Draney entity posted thusly:

>Solo Thesailor filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>line (who called *you* without permission) refuses to acknowledge anything you
>say, they've forfeited any pretense at civility....r

IMHO, the bastards that encroach uninvited upon my relaxation time,
have forfeited any pretense of civility as soon as I determine who or
what they are. I am seriously considering an air horn for them.
Don Phillipson - 10 Nov 2006 12:54 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
> did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
> intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not!  It could
> very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite
> definitely not.

This was simply your bad luck and not dictated by
the current state of this particular art or technology.
The drugstore chain where we buy medications has
a voice-activated menu system to take orders that
(a) speaks in an ordinary human voice (not machine-
generated) that is clear and distinct (a  woman's voice:
I have listened only in English but it functions in
French as well);
(b) takes orders by recognizing phone pad numerals,
confirmed by repetition by voice;
(c) accepts multiple orders;
(d) tells the customer the day and hour when the
prescription will be ready for collection;
(e) in our experience, works flawlessly, i.e. copes
with user errors or repetition etc.

Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Jeffrey Turner - 10 Nov 2006 13:14 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
> did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
> that's alright, innit?

I spoke to a machine on the phone yesterday that did quite a good job of
it.  Good voice recognition, too, though I was careful about speaking
clearly.  It was "yes" and "no" and numbers from my end, though.

--Jeff

Signature

Often war is waged only in order to
show valor; thus an inner dignity is
ascribed to war itself, and even some
philosophers have praised it as an
ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the
pronouncement of the Greek who said,
"War is an evil in as much as it produces
more wicked men than it takes away."
--Immanuel Kant

Pat Durkin - 10 Nov 2006 18:29 GMT
Jeffrey, thank you for posting this sig.  I find that, though long, it
is very thought-provoking.
Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 20:30 GMT
> > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and
> > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> it.  Good voice recognition, too, though I was careful about speaking
> clearly.  It was "yes" and "no" and numbers from my end, though.

I'm familiar with that type even though somewhat iritated by it because
pressing a button is much faster than having to carefully say words,
however simple. You could also press buttons quite effectively even
when not in a state of emotional calm whereas you can't say words
succinctly after you've just had a row with a teenager, or a boy has
made you cry (just kiddin'). All such bill paying is now replaced by
internet banking, even more speedy. Money flies away faster and faster
these days!

What freaked me out this time was a telemaketing call by a voice that
made a pretence at conversation, asking you chatty or inquiring
questions, pausing at preset intervals, and carried on 'the
conversation' regardless of whether or how you answered. It was
rabbiting on about switching to a different ISP or phone company, I
think...

Being hounded recently by telemarketers is making me 'not answering
call', again for the first time, at least for a while, when seeing a
NSW (State of New South Wales) number which seems characteristic of the
call origin. Man, my castle is being invaded!

PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of
disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I
can't remember what the conclusion was.
Signature

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com

Mark Brader - 11 Nov 2006 03:10 GMT
> PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of
> disappeared by itself

No, it's still there.  If your newsreader isn't showing it to you, that's
its problem.

> -something The Omrud investigated recently but I can't remember what
> the conclusion was.

I recall tags of the form "OT: " being removed by some news software,
apparently under the assumption that they were some foreign-language
form of "Re: ".  I'm not sure if this is now afflicting other forms
as well.
Signature

Mark Brader            "I like to think of [this] as self-explanatory."
Toronto                "I hope *I* think of [it] that way."
msb@vex.net                       -- Donald Westlake: "Trust Me On This"

the Omrud - 11 Nov 2006 09:51 GMT
Solo Thesailor <notforspamsailmail@gmail.com> had it:

> PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of
> disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I
> can't remember what the conclusion was.

It is still there, as Mark says, but I think my investigation centred
on Google Groups causing the previous problems.  But I can't remember
the details.

Signature

David
=====

Mark Brader - 11 Nov 2006 22:23 GMT
> > PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of
> > disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> on Google Groups causing the previous problems.  But I can't remember
> the details.

Oh, I see.  It's another Google "improvement".  If you view the thread
on their site, you get the redacted subject line.  If you select one
of the articles and "show original", you get it as it was meant to be.
Signature

Mark Brader, Toronto | It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.
msb@vex.net          |                                      -- Bill Clinton

sage - 10 Nov 2006 22:13 GMT
> I've just been rung by a machine!
(Snip)
> Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was
> the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so
> that's alright, innit?

I think this is a case of Obaue -- if not, I'm not sorry!

"rung": I'd think it more likely to use "rung up".

"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung.

Discuss.

(If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. The mechanical
voice trick happened to me a couple of months ago. Fascinating. But if
that bugger -- a real voice -- from Investors Group calls again at
supper time ...)

Cheers, Sage
Tony Cooper - 10 Nov 2006 22:15 GMT
>"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung.
>
>Discuss.

Well, there's an obvious exception to that statement.

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Evan Kirshenbaum - 10 Nov 2006 22:29 GMT
>>"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung.
>>
>>Discuss.
>>
> Well, there's an obvious exception to that statement.

"Not necessarily!"

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Peter Moylan - 12 Nov 2006 13:14 GMT
> (If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. The mechanical
>  voice trick happened to me a couple of months ago. Fascinating. But
> if that bugger -- a real voice -- from Investors Group calls again at
>  supper time ...)

That's where robots don't quite manage to sound like human
telemarketers. In my experience, the robots haven't yet learnt to call
while you're in the middle of a meal.

If a telemarketer calls when I'm in the middle of cooking, that's
another matter. My response in such cases is to say "Just a minute, a
saucepan is boiling over", and then leave the phone off the hook for ten
or fifteen minutes before hanging up.

Signature

Peter Moylan                             http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses.  The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.  The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.

Solo Thesailor - 13 Nov 2006 13:10 GMT
> > ....
> > (If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. .. ...)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> saucepan is boiling over", and then leave the phone off the hook for ten
> or fifteen minutes before hanging up.

Thank you everyone, for your help and for letting me know that the
'[OT?]' label did appear. I have calmed down a little.

Today someone rang as a "wrong number" regarding delivery of some
fertilizer, then proceeded to ask me whether I wanted some
(fertilizer). I was suspicious whether the 'wrong number' was a new
telemarketing ploy. I wouldn't like to become suspicious of innocent
people.

I wish that, just like spamming has been made illegal (I think it has
helped somewhat in the business world), unsolicited
telemarketing/faxing is made illegal too.
Signature

Solo Thesailor
http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com

 
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