[OT?] Machine-speak
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Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 01:45 GMT I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not! It could very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite definitely not.
It gave me the creeps, like in sf stories about robots taking over the world and humans were just puppets they manipulated. At first I thought someone ought to teach it better English but then... I'd feel such a dork to be hoodwinked into conversing with a machine. What if you found out that someone you were married to or went out with was a robot? It was good to read in sf but...
Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so that's alright, innit?
 Signature Solo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Pat Durkin - 10 Nov 2006 01:59 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so > that's alright, innit? Oh, yes. Politeness is not required for communication with a machine. On the other hand, can you deal with the guilt of complete freedom from consequences?
DianeE - 10 Nov 2006 02:30 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! ....That was > the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast.... ---------------- You say "I hanged up" instead of "I hung up" in BrE, or was that just a mistake?
DianeE
Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 02:52 GMT > > ....That was the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast.... > ---------------- > You say "I hanged up" instead of "I hung up" in BrE, or was that just a > mistake? I think I always say 'hung up (the phone) on someone' eg just the other day: "He was so furious he just about hung up on me". But, writing in this group...Ooops..newsgroup/forum one gets jittery and edits and over-edits until confusion sets in. You can get hanged here, you know, then hung, drawn and quartered..... But when harangued, even if not harrassed, one can't get hung up about it all otherwise one can't hang out with people or hang around them. :-)
Thanks for pointing that out. It now looks funny.
 Signature Solo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
mb - 10 Nov 2006 04:30 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so > that's alright, innit? You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no choice to push a number. That's when you'll start getting the serious shivers.
Peter Moylan - 10 Nov 2006 13:17 GMT >> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech >> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at >> intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not! It >> could very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like >> but quite definitely not.
> You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet > the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no > choice to push a number. That's when you'll start getting the serious > shivers. That's a different case, in my opinion. I've met a few of those, and even forced some of them to connect me to a human. (The trick is to mumble, so that the robot can't understand you.) In every such case, however, I was the one who initiated the call. It's scarier, in my opinion, when the robot is the one who calls you.
I've been hanging up on the ones who offer me a free vacation in Florida ever since I discovered that the offer didn't include a plane ticket to the USA. That's the simple case. The ones that scare me are where there's suddenly the sound of a US ring tone, which is distinctly different from an Australian ring tone. That's when I hang up quickly.
On a related note, here's a useful tip. If you ever buy anything from Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail.
 Signature Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time.
mb - 10 Nov 2006 20:20 GMT > >> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech > >> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > even forced some of them to connect me to a human. (The trick is to > mumble, so that the robot can't understand you.) That worked a couple years ago, when they had only started. Now the robot answers: "I didn't understand you, would you please repeat?" on a continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access to the company's work force, not to help you.
Jitze Couperus - 11 Nov 2006 00:56 GMT >> >> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech >> >> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access to >the company's work force, not to help you. If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource:
http://gethuman.com/us/ (For United Sates)
or
http://gethuman.com/uk/ (For United Kingdom)
These pages will tell you the magic sequence of how to get through to a human with minimal finger jabbing
I have used it twice now with excellent results
Jitze
mb - 11 Nov 2006 03:44 GMT > If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get > directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I have used it twice now with excellent results Good man. I owe you.
LFS - 11 Nov 2006 08:45 GMT > If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get > directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I have used it twice now with excellent results A useful site - thanks, Jitze. The home page has a link to an article on the art of turboing:
"Turboing refers to the actions of a customer who goes around the normal technical support process by contacting a senior person in the chain of command."
Why is it called turboing, I wonder?
 Signature Laura (emulate St. George for email)
Peter Duncanson - 11 Nov 2006 11:27 GMT >> If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get >> directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Why is it called turboing, I wonder? It looks like a metaphor derived from the turbocharger or "turbo boost" on some sporty cars that makes the car go faster than it otherwise would.
"Turboing" is a means of contacting a senior person faster than would be achieved by going through the normaltechnical support process.
It is a way of speeding things up.
 Signature Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english)
Richard Bollard - 15 Nov 2006 03:58 GMT [...]
>If you're ever lost in a "menu tree" (Press 1 for...) and want to get >directly to a human, may I recommend the following resource: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Jitze For Australia
http://gethuman.com.au/
 Signature Richard Bollard Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
John Holmes - 11 Nov 2006 05:39 GMT >>>> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech >>>> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > a continuous loop. Remember, these menus are there to minimize access > to the company's work force, not to help you. This is the way our directory enquiries work now. I haven't heard of anybody being successful in getting a number for a couple of years. Everybody I know who has tried has given up in frustration, and several of them are now in homes for the bewildered.
That comedy sketch of years ago about "Hang up and your dayam will be refunded" had nothing on this.
-- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au
sage - 10 Nov 2006 22:16 GMT > On a related note, here's a useful tip. If you ever buy anything from > Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my > knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail. Bell Canada will stop nuisance faxes, if you give them the details. It's worked for me.
Cheers, Sage
Robin Bignall - 10 Nov 2006 22:33 GMT >>> I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech >>> and did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Dell, be careful not to reveal your fax number. To the best of my >knowledge there's no way to stop receiving their junk mail. You get it by snailmail, too. I bought a Dell in 1998, long ago passed on to my son in France, and I still get monthly mailshots.
 Signature Robin Herts, England
SherLok Merfy - 10 Nov 2006 21:32 GMT > You're light-years behind the times, man. Looks like you didn't meet > the voice menus that *require* you to talk to the robot, with no choice > to push a number. > That's when you'll start getting the serious shivers. A rule is in my Telus phonebook, on page twenty-two, about ADAD (automatic dialing and announcing devices). It says they're legal, but only for public service announcements, and what's more is that it has to identify the caller. Typically, they're "prohibited" according to the rule about solicitation, that's because they try to sell something by trying to tell me that I've just won a trip, yada, yada, "to claim your prize, hit nine. If you're not that stupid, hit eight." ...
If you hate fraud artists, call customer service and complain. They should be able to block the number from calling anyone in Alberta or B.C. if they can't do some snooping and prosecution. Once a spam cop, always a spam cop. _______ <a href="http://www.mynumo.com/SherLok">BrewJay's Babble Bin</a>
R H Draney - 10 Nov 2006 04:41 GMT Solo Thesailor filted:
>I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and >did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at >intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not! It could >very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite >definitely not. Did it tell you to watch Edison Carter on Network 23?...that's actually a Canadian accent....
>Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was >the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so >that's alright, innit? It's alright even if it *is* a person...when the party on the other end of the line (who called *you* without permission) refuses to acknowledge anything you say, they've forfeited any pretense at civility....r
 Signature "Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.
Oleg Lego - 10 Nov 2006 06:07 GMT The R H Draney entity posted thusly:
>Solo Thesailor filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >line (who called *you* without permission) refuses to acknowledge anything you >say, they've forfeited any pretense at civility....r IMHO, the bastards that encroach uninvited upon my relaxation time, have forfeited any pretense of civility as soon as I determine who or what they are. I am seriously considering an air horn for them.
Don Phillipson - 10 Nov 2006 12:54 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at > intervals then carried on regardless of what I said, or not! It could > very well be an overwrought telemarketer-turned-robot-like but quite > definitely not. This was simply your bad luck and not dictated by the current state of this particular art or technology. The drugstore chain where we buy medications has a voice-activated menu system to take orders that (a) speaks in an ordinary human voice (not machine- generated) that is clear and distinct (a woman's voice: I have listened only in English but it functions in French as well); (b) takes orders by recognizing phone pad numerals, confirmed by repetition by voice; (c) accepts multiple orders; (d) tells the customer the day and hour when the prescription will be ready for collection; (e) in our experience, works flawlessly, i.e. copes with user errors or repetition etc.
 Signature Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Jeffrey Turner - 10 Nov 2006 13:14 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so > that's alright, innit? I spoke to a machine on the phone yesterday that did quite a good job of it. Good voice recognition, too, though I was careful about speaking clearly. It was "yes" and "no" and numbers from my end, though.
--Jeff
 Signature Often war is waged only in order to show valor; thus an inner dignity is ascribed to war itself, and even some philosophers have praised it as an ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the pronouncement of the Greek who said, "War is an evil in as much as it produces more wicked men than it takes away." --Immanuel Kant
Pat Durkin - 10 Nov 2006 18:29 GMT Jeffrey, thank you for posting this sig. I find that, though long, it is very thought-provoking.
Solo Thesailor - 10 Nov 2006 20:30 GMT > > I've just been rung by a machine! It did a very poor job of speech and > > did a rapid talk with a very strong American accent, pausing at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it. Good voice recognition, too, though I was careful about speaking > clearly. It was "yes" and "no" and numbers from my end, though. I'm familiar with that type even though somewhat iritated by it because pressing a button is much faster than having to carefully say words, however simple. You could also press buttons quite effectively even when not in a state of emotional calm whereas you can't say words succinctly after you've just had a row with a teenager, or a boy has made you cry (just kiddin'). All such bill paying is now replaced by internet banking, even more speedy. Money flies away faster and faster these days!
What freaked me out this time was a telemaketing call by a voice that made a pretence at conversation, asking you chatty or inquiring questions, pausing at preset intervals, and carried on 'the conversation' regardless of whether or how you answered. It was rabbiting on about switching to a different ISP or phone company, I think...
Being hounded recently by telemarketers is making me 'not answering call', again for the first time, at least for a while, when seeing a NSW (State of New South Wales) number which seems characteristic of the call origin. Man, my castle is being invaded!
PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I can't remember what the conclusion was.
 Signature Solo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
Mark Brader - 11 Nov 2006 03:10 GMT > PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of > disappeared by itself No, it's still there. If your newsreader isn't showing it to you, that's its problem.
> -something The Omrud investigated recently but I can't remember what > the conclusion was. I recall tags of the form "OT: " being removed by some news software, apparently under the assumption that they were some foreign-language form of "Re: ". I'm not sure if this is now afflicting other forms as well.
 Signature Mark Brader "I like to think of [this] as self-explanatory." Toronto "I hope *I* think of [it] that way." msb@vex.net -- Donald Westlake: "Trust Me On This"
the Omrud - 11 Nov 2006 09:51 GMT Solo Thesailor <notforspamsailmail@gmail.com> had it:
> PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of > disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I > can't remember what the conclusion was. It is still there, as Mark says, but I think my investigation centred on Google Groups causing the previous problems. But I can't remember the details.
 Signature David =====
Mark Brader - 11 Nov 2006 22:23 GMT > > PS I put [OT?] before the topic in the subject line but it kind of > > disappeared by itself -something The Omrud investigated recently but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on Google Groups causing the previous problems. But I can't remember > the details. Oh, I see. It's another Google "improvement". If you view the thread on their site, you get the redacted subject line. If you select one of the articles and "show original", you get it as it was meant to be.
 Signature Mark Brader, Toronto | It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is. msb@vex.net | -- Bill Clinton
sage - 10 Nov 2006 22:13 GMT > I've just been rung by a machine! (Snip)
> Shivers... I felt like I needed some sort of group protection. That was > the first time I hanged up on anyone, fast - but it's not a person so > that's alright, innit? I think this is a case of Obaue -- if not, I'm not sorry!
"rung": I'd think it more likely to use "rung up".
"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung.
Discuss.
(If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. The mechanical voice trick happened to me a couple of months ago. Fascinating. But if that bugger -- a real voice -- from Investors Group calls again at supper time ...)
Cheers, Sage
Tony Cooper - 10 Nov 2006 22:15 GMT >"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung. > >Discuss. Well, there's an obvious exception to that statement.
 Signature Tony Cooper Orlando, FL
Evan Kirshenbaum - 10 Nov 2006 22:29 GMT >>"hanged up": A man is hanged ; an object is hung. >> >>Discuss. >> > Well, there's an obvious exception to that statement. "Not necessarily!"
 Signature Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If I am ever forced to make a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |choice between learning and using Palo Alto, CA 94304 |win32, or leaving the computer |industry, let me just say it was kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |nice knowing all of you. :-) (650)857-7572 | Randal Schwartz
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Peter Moylan - 12 Nov 2006 13:14 GMT > (If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. The mechanical > voice trick happened to me a couple of months ago. Fascinating. But > if that bugger -- a real voice -- from Investors Group calls again at > supper time ...) That's where robots don't quite manage to sound like human telemarketers. In my experience, the robots haven't yet learnt to call while you're in the middle of a meal.
If a telemarketer calls when I'm in the middle of cooking, that's another matter. My response in such cases is to say "Just a minute, a saucepan is boiling over", and then leave the phone off the hook for ten or fifteen minutes before hanging up.
 Signature Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time.
Solo Thesailor - 13 Nov 2006 13:10 GMT > > .... > > (If it's any consolation, Solo, I sympathize with you. .. ...) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > saucepan is boiling over", and then leave the phone off the hook for ten > or fifteen minutes before hanging up. Thank you everyone, for your help and for letting me know that the '[OT?]' label did appear. I have calmed down a little.
Today someone rang as a "wrong number" regarding delivery of some fertilizer, then proceeded to ask me whether I wanted some (fertilizer). I was suspicious whether the 'wrong number' was a new telemarketing ploy. I wouldn't like to become suspicious of innocent people.
I wish that, just like spamming has been made illegal (I think it has helped somewhat in the business world), unsolicited telemarketing/faxing is made illegal too.
 Signature Solo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com
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