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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006petal
Hi, native speakers of English, here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" and/or does it have anything to do with rose etc petals? Again one of my sources is the online dictionary found at peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives no context or example. Thanks, in advance, Ho  SignatureIf you mail me direct take the ho out of freesesho@web.de > Hi, native speakers of English, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ho It's often used to address children or to patronise someone. Be careful using it. TOF >> Hi, native speakers of English, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >It's often used to address children or to patronise someone. Be careful >using it. Good point. It is one of those words to be understood but not to be used unless one is very familiar with its use in a particular community. If one is an outsider to the community the word is best avoided until one has been accepted as part of the community. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an > > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's often used to address children or to patronise someone. Perhaps it's often used in Australia, but not North America. Is it like the impersonal affectionate terms British bus drivers and waitresses might use -- "duck," "love"? > Be careful using it. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an >> > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the impersonal affectionate terms British bus drivers and waitresses >might use -- "duck," "love"? I think it is very similar, perhaps slightly more personal in some circumstances. I stand to be corrected, but I think that "duck", "love" and "petal" are used by men to women, and by women to both men and women. If a man uses such a word of another man it might well suggest that the other man is effiminate. Such usage might well be sarcastic. >> Be careful using it. Seconded. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >> > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an > >> > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >the impersonal affectionate terms British bus drivers and waitresses > >might use -- "duck," "love"? I've not heard a male use "pet" or "petal" in this way. For mine, both words are exclusive to women, especially older workingclass women, although petal strikes me as more likely to be used by someone want ing to be taken for someone with a little more grace and charm. I doubt the words as used above will be in use 25 years from now. TOF >> >> > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an >> >> > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I've not heard a male use "pet" or "petal" in this way. My Granda and great uncle used to call family "pet", as did my uncle. My cousin, the same age as me, calls his children "pet". It's still used, in the north-east of England, at least. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >> >> > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an > >> >> > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > My cousin, the same age as me, calls his children "pet". It's still > used, in the north-east of England, at least. Must be an Old Dart thing then. TOF > > > here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an > > > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the impersonal affectionate terms British bus drivers and waitresses > might use -- "duck," "love"? Spot on. I'm also inclined - having returned to my Southern roots after 25 years exile up North, and still finding my feet with what is and isn't regional dialect a bit - to think it's regional. Certainly 'flower' is common in the North but not heard in the South. 'Pet' as opposed to 'Petal' is an archetypical Geordieism, as readers of Andy Capp will know. (What on Earth do US readers make of Andy Capp, BTW?) On male to male usage, it's not unheard of for male strangers to refer to each other as 'love' in parts of the North - I used to hear that a lot in Oldham. However, that's one to approach with *extreme* caution. DC > On male to male usage, it's not unheard of for male strangers to refer > to each other as 'love' in parts of the North - I used to hear that a > lot in Oldham. However, that's one to approach with *extreme* caution. Similarly "duck" in parts of the midlands - especially Stoke-on-Trent. But Stoke is a law to itself - where "youth" means a person of the male sex of any age from 4 to 104. It's a minefield to be avoided. Regards Jonathan > (What on Earth do US readers make of Andy Capp, BTW?) Periodically, the Orlando Sentinel asks the readers to vote on retaining comic strips and on which ones to add. "Andy Capp" used to appear in the Sentinel, but it was evidently voted out (or didn't receive enough votes to be retained). It was one of my favorites. Never a problem for me to understand. Currently, the Sentinel carries "Fred Basset" (Alex Graham). Fred is a Basset Hound, and the strip is set in the UK. There are very, very few UK references used in the strip, though. You could read it for months and not realize the setting is the UK. "Pub" is about the only UK term routinely used. The Sentinel also carries "For Better or for Worse" (Lynn Johnston) which is set in Canada. Again, not a strip with a lot of language uses or terms of the country in which it is set. You only recognize that the setting is Canada because of the cities mentioned. My question would be if UK and Aussie readers would easily follow "Zits" (Jerry Scott & Jim Borgman). Fairly universal teenagers, but some US high school and slang references that might be difficult to understand by non-Americans. http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/zits/about.htm For example, some strips deal with high school lockers and locker contents. I don't think that this travels overpond. Today's strip, though, is aue material. A character uses "fully sorry", "fully awesome", and "fully my fault". The other character asks "New adverb?", and the first character replies "'Fully' is the new 'totally'". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >My question would be if UK and Aussie readers would easily follow >"Zits" (Jerry Scott & Jim Borgman). Fairly universal teenagers, but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >For example, some strips deal with high school lockers and locker >contents. I don't think that this travels overpond. I don't have any trouble following "Zits" (and love it), but I may not be typical. It's hard to know how much of my familiarity with the references comes from time spent in the US (including with high-schoolers), how much (conjecturally) from other strips, or shows such as The Simpsons, or just general cultural seepage. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> (What on Earth do US readers make of Andy Capp, BTW?) > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > For example, some strips deal with high school lockers and locker > contents. I don't think that this travels overpond. My paper has been carrying a daily "Zits" for ages. It took me some time before I even noticed that it was American. Lockers exist in Australian schools and certainly did in my school in England. SignatureRob Bannister >>>> here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be >>>> used as an (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > opposed to 'Petal' is an archetypical Geordieism, as readers of Andy > Capp will know. (What on Earth do US readers make of Andy Capp, BTW?) You think *that's* an imponderable? On an exchange visit to Germany in the 60s I found German 6th-formers obsessed with Andy and Flo - in the original, not translation. BTW, just picked up a Geordie joke on another froup: General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving bastards. > On male to male usage, it's not unheard of for male strangers to refer > to each other as 'love' in parts of the North - I used to hear that a > lot in Oldham. However, that's one to approach with *extreme* > caution. DC Most definitely, me owd flower. If Oscar Wilde had been tried at Manchester Crown Court he'd have walked. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >You think *that's* an imponderable? On an exchange visit to Germany in the >60s I found German 6th-formers obsessed with Andy and Flo - in the original, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving >bastards. That was on QI on Friday night. Steven Fry completely and utterly failed to get it, which made the joke all the funnier. Watch the repeat next week! SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> You think *that's* an imponderable? On an exchange visit to Germany >> in the 60s I found German 6th-formers obsessed with Andy and Flo - [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > failed to get it, which made the joke all the funnier. Watch the > repeat next week! Ah. I'm not a QI watcher. I find I have to keep myself at a distance from Mr Fry these days - the joke has worn too thin. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> You think *that's* an imponderable? On an exchange visit to Germany >>> in the 60s I found German 6th-formers obsessed with Andy and Flo - [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Ah. I'm not a QI watcher. I find I have to keep myself at a distance from Mr >Fry these days - the joke has worn too thin. Yes. Although he perhaps aspires to be The New Noel Coward he all too often ends up as The Old Noelle Gordon. And he spreads himself so thin these days that if he's not careful he'll be best remembered only as one of the world's Syd Littles, Tommy Cannons or Mike Winterses -- put your hands together for "Dr House's former sidekick". SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) >>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. >>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >failed to get it, which made the joke all the funnier. Watch the >repeat next week! Or "which made the weak joke moderately funny". It's a non-starter for me because it relies on cheating with the stress patterns ("WAR drums" versus "wor DRUMS"). But it is Monday morning. SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) >>>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. >>>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >me because it relies on cheating with the stress patterns ("WAR drums" >versus "wor DRUMS"). Gosh, thank you for that. I was still trying to work it out, and I now feel much better about not having succeeded. But, oh dear, the ignominy of being in the same camp as Fry..... SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. >>>>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >now feel much better about not having succeeded. But, oh dear, the >ignominy of being in the same camp as Fry..... Fry? In a camp? That's it. Sign him up for next year's "I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here" (UK). I suggest "next year" because this year's Looming Disaster Hopeless Misfit slot is filled by David Gest (formerly Mr Liza Minelli). SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > >Gosh, thank you for that. I was still trying to work it out, and I > >now feel much better about not having succeeded. But, oh dear, the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That's it. Sign him up for next year's "I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out > of Here" (UK). I've never seen that, but I do recall that Fry said he found no difficulty in adjusting to prison after his experiences at his boarding school. He might enjoy the jungle. SignatureDavid ===== > Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > difficulty in adjusting to prison after his experiences at his > boarding school. He might enjoy the jungle. He was once, he described in a very funny manner (perhaps on Room 101?) how noisy it was at night, with animals screeching things like "GET OUTA HERE" and "not aGAIN not aGAIN not aGAIN". But can we go back to the joke? I'm saying "war DRUMS, war DRUMS" with a proper British "woah" and I don't get any connection to thieving bastards. SignatureBest - Donna Richoux Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > But can we go back to the joke? I'm saying "war DRUMS, war DRUMS" with a > proper British "woah" and I don't get any connection to thieving > bastards. "wor" is the North-East (Geordie) dialect pronunciation of "our". "wor drums" are "our drums". The indians have knicked them. The sergeant was noted as a Geordie. SignatureDavid ===== > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The sergeant was noted as a Geordie. Show of hands, please!: any Americans who didn't need to have the joke explained. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Show of hands, please!: any Americans who didn't need to have the joke > explained. I think fondly of the character in Viz asking his son to: "Hoy us wor tabs!" SignatureDavid ===== > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I think fondly of the character in Viz asking his son to: "Hoy us wor > tabs!" I recollect in West Hartlepool the man standing next to you in the pub toilet would, as likely as not, deliver a philosophical apercu on the lines of "It gans in and it gans oot. Talk aboot hoyin money away." SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Show of hands, please!: any Americans who didn't need to have the joke >explained. Tell me when the Americans who *still* don't get because they don't know a Geordie accent from a hiccup are supposed to raise hands. If I'm not mistaken, the porter on the "I'm Alan Partridge" TV show is a Geordie. A standing joke in the show is his accent in describing his military career. He's understandable to me, but the joke in this thread is not. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> had it: > >> Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Tell me when the Americans who *still* don't get because they don't > know a Geordie accent from a hiccup are supposed to raise hands. I've explained it. You don't have to understand - just believe. > If I'm not mistaken, the porter on the "I'm Alan Partridge" TV show is > a Geordie. A standing joke in the show is his accent in describing > his military career. He's understandable to me, but the joke in this > thread is not. I have to say I'd forgotten the character (it was 10 years ago, you know and Partridge's best work was on the radio), but I've tracked down the actor. He's from Cumbria, but you are right - the character he plays is a Geordie. SignatureDavid ===== >Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >down the actor. He's from Cumbria, but you are right - the character >he plays is a Geordie. It's just showing here. We get things a bit late. I heard Diana was in an accident. Not serious, I hope. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "wor" is the North-East (Geordie) dialect pronunciation of "our". > "wor drums" are "our drums". The indians have knicked them. Yup, you've got to be careful, those tomahawks are dead sharp. DC >>Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Yup, you've got to be careful, those tomahawks are dead sharp. I'm sure there's something amusing that could link Geordies, tomahawks and underwear but for the moment it eludes me... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > >>Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'm sure there's something amusing that could link Geordies, tomahawks > and underwear but for the moment it eludes me... Three Geordies walk into a pub wearing French Pants and carrying tomahawks. They order pints and the barman charges them 25 quid for the beers. Then he says "we don't often get Geordies wearing French Pants and carrying tomahawks in here". And the first Geordie says: "I'm not surprised at these prices". Please yourselves.... DC >>> Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm sure there's something amusing that could link Geordies, tomahawks > and underwear but for the moment it eludes me... Was that a super-polite way of oying the spelling of "nicked"? SignatureRob Bannister >>>> Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > Was that a super-polite way of oying the spelling of "nicked"? Indeed. I'm practising super-politeness this week but I've discovered that only those with the most refined antennae are aware of the nuances. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Was that a super-polite way of oying the spelling of "nicked"? > > Indeed. I'm practising super-politeness this week but I've discovered > that only those with the most refined antennae are aware of the nuances. A "Knicks" in German means a curtsy, which I want to spell courtesy. SignatureRob Bannister >>> Was that a super-polite way of oying the spelling of "nicked"? >> >> Indeed. I'm practising super-politeness this week but I've discovered >> that only those with the most refined antennae are aware of the nuances. >> >A "Knicks" in German means a curtsy, which I want to spell courtesy. Fair enough. The "curtsy" spelling of "courtesy" is recent[1]. It takes time for such changes to become familiar. [1] I.e. 16c. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >>>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. > >>>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > now feel much better about not having succeeded. But, oh dear, the > ignominy of being in the same camp as Fry..... Nope, you're not the only one who needed an explanation, Katy. DC >> >>>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. >> >>>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Nope, you're not the only one who needed an explanation, Katy. >DC Here's another sheepish hand up... but I'm sure I would agree with Fry about prison life, if ever push came to shove. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! Paul Wolff wrote, in <yJL9NIuRBNWFFAY0@fpwolff.demon.co.uk> on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:06:41 +0000: > >> >>>General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux camp. > >> >>>Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, they're thieving [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Here's another sheepish hand up... but I'm sure I would agree with Fry > about prison life, if ever push came to shove. Not quite prison but I noticed when doing my Army service back in the '50s that those who had been to boarding school had much less trauma than those who hadn't. SignatureNick Spalding >>> General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux >>> camp. Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > me because it relies on cheating with the stress patterns ("WAR drums" > versus "wor DRUMS"). Natatat. The General says WAR drums and the Geordie hears WOR drums - ie not their own drums but WOR drums, the cheeky bastards. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>> General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux >>>> camp. Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Natatat. The General says WAR drums and the Geordie hears WOR drums - ie not > their own drums but WOR drums, the cheeky bastards. As Amethyst Deceiver (I think) notes above, the joke doesn't work if you don't know that a Geordie would put the emphasis on "drums". So, the General has to say "war DRUMS" to get the Geordie sgt. to reply as reported in the joke. Am ah not RIGHT, hin/petal? Cheers, Sage >>>>> General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux >>>>> camp. Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Cheers, Sage Nope. Casting dialect aside - it's as if the General says "They're playing OUR drums" - ie they're not playing their own, they're playing the ones they stole from us. And the Sergeant then accuses them of being thieves. Because they're playing OUR drums. Putting the dialect back in and expanding the dialogue: G.C. They're playing WAR drums S. WOR drums? They're playing WOR drums? Have they nay drums of their own though but? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>>> General Custer : I can hear the sound of war drums from the Sioux >>>>>> camp. Geordie Sergeant : So they're not just murdering savages, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > S. WOR drums? They're playing WOR drums? Have they nay drums of their own > though but? So, there are two ways of looking at it. No wonder them others were flummoxed. Cheers, Sage > But it is Monday morning. It is indeed, and I haven't even had my tea yet. So 'splain, please. The eh formerly known as eh? SignatureSML Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it: > > But it is Monday morning. > > It is indeed, and I haven't even had my tea yet. So 'splain, please. The > eh formerly known as eh? The Entity Formerly Known As T H Entity. SignatureDavid ===== >> But it is Monday morning. > >It is indeed, and I haven't even had my tea yet. So 'splain, please. The >eh formerly known as eh? Eh for ehntity. SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) >>>> here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be >>>> used as an (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> the impersonal affectionate terms British bus drivers and waitresses >> might use -- "duck," "love"? I think there's a significant difference between Australian usage and what DC says below. In Australia 'pet' would be mainly used within families, or at least people who know each other well. Not to strangers very often. It is perhaps what someone might call a young daughter, niece or granddaughter. Other than that, it would sound rather patronising, as Fran said. > Spot on. I'm also inclined - having returned to my Southern roots > after 25 years exile up North, and still finding my feet with what is > and isn't regional dialect a bit - to think it's regional. Certainly > 'flower' is common in the North but not heard in the South. 'Pet' as > opposed to 'Petal' is an archetypical Geordieism, as readers of Andy > Capp will know. Also, I've noticed that Scots use 'pet' a lot. Maybe it's just in some parts of Scotland. -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >Hi, native speakers of English, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >sources is the online dictionary found at peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives >no context or example. It is possibly to do with flower petals. The word "flower" is also used: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/f.htm flower Noun. An affectionate term of address, mainly applied to females. {Informal} In this usage "flower" means the flower head, the coloured part with the petals. "Flower" is also used to mean a complete plant, but that is not the meaning used here. Flowers are conventionally thought of in a positive way. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Hi, native speakers of English, >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Flowers are conventionally thought of in a positive way. Not to include "bloomin' ijit". SignatureFrank ess > Hi, native speakers of English, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Again one of my sources is the online dictionary found at > peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives no context or example. It probably combines the ideas of 'pet' and 'petal'. 'Petal' almost sounds like a possible diminutive for 'pet'. But it always reminds me of this: [quote} Your lips are like petals--bicycle pedals. (This works verbally, not written.) Your eyes are like pools--cesspools. Your teeth are like stars--they come out at night. Your nose is a Roman nose--it's roamin' all over your face. Your ears are like flowers--cauliflowers. [end] (found quoted online at http://www.hipiers.com/03april.html ) I don't know where that originally came from -- possibly an old music-hall routine, or something like that. I've heard numerous variations over the years, but can't remember them all. -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au John Holmes schrieb: > It probably combines the ideas of 'pet' and 'petal'. 'Petal' almost > sounds like a possible diminutive for 'pet'. But it always reminds me of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > music-hall routine, or something like that. I've heard numerous > variations over the years, but can't remember them all. This newsgroup really never lets you down. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Ho >> Hi, native speakers of English, >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >music-hall routine, or something like that. I've heard numerous >variations over the years, but can't remember them all. You look like a million dollars - all green and crinkly. SignatureRobin Herts, England > Hi, native speakers of English, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sources is the online dictionary found at peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives > no context or example. -The- rule for non-natives: -never- use terms like this unless you have heard them being used by the natives you are talking with, and understand what's appropriate usage. Jan > I understand "petal" can be used as an > (affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" > and/or does it have anything to do with rose etc petals? Keep an ear open for the English TV soap opera Coronation Street, where characters commonly address each other affectionately as pet, petal, blossom and flower. I.e. these uses are still current (at least in Manchester.) SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >Hi, native speakers of English, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >sources is the online dictionary found at peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives >no context or example. Today there is a letter in The Times (of London) in which the writer from the London area expresses his pleasure at being addressed as "darling", "sweetheart" and "my lovely" during a five hour visit to Doncaster in the North of England. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2707-2445738,00.html SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Hi, native speakers of English, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2707-2445738,00.html > It seems that it is now verboten to call the DHSS (it's where they deal with pensions) staff in Newcastle-on-Tyne "pet" or "hin" (the latter short for "hinny"). They are now considered demeaning. Surely the first word uttered by a Geordie is "hinny"; it's part of the soundscape. Cheers, Sage >>> Hi, native speakers of English, >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >short for "hinny"). They are now considered demeaning. Surely the first >word uttered by a Geordie is "hinny"; it's part of the soundscape. I don't remember the word 'hinny' being used once in 'When the Boowat Comes In", bonnie lads and lasses. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>> Hi, native speakers of English, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I don't remember the word 'hinny' being used once in 'When the Boowat >Comes In", bonnie lads and lasses. SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) > I don't remember the word 'hinny' being used once in 'When the Boowat > Comes In", bonnie lads and lasses. I knew what they meant, but I could never stop myself from hearing the name of that series as "When the boot goes in." SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > Today there is a letter in The Times (of London) in which the writer > from the London area expresses his pleasure at being addressed as > "darling", "sweetheart" and "my lovely" during a five hour visit to > Doncaster in the North of England. > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2707-2445738,00.html A little story from my own Bank of Personal Experiences. In 1972, I moved from Berkshire up to Leeds, to take up an appointment as a power engineer with the (then) Central Electricity Generating Board. When I went to the canteen for my first lunch, I noticed that the normal form of address from males to the mainly female catering staff was "luv". As my first week progressed, I noticed that I was not getting a full helping of chips with my lunches. I thought it worthwhile to test my theory that the reason for them giving me slightly short measure was that I was a stuck-up southerner who was not calling them "luv". So I decided to start calling them "luv". Within a week, they had accepted me, and I was no longer getting short measure. Over the next few years, this form of address became habitual. But I was a travelling specialist engineer, who would have to drive to the four corners of England in response to problems that might arise within my specialist area. I particularly remember one outing to Wylfa Power Station, on the island of Anglesey, just off the north-west coast of Wales. In response to the question "Chips?" from the young female assistant, forgetting where I was, I answered "Yes please luv". Fine. No problem. At least, not immediately. The next day, I went into the canteen, and noticed that some of the older canteen staff were smiling at me. One even winked. But nothing more than that. The next day, some of them unsuccessfully stifling their laughter, and they were nudging each other. It got worse. By Friday, I was so self-conscious that I went into the Gents, combed my hair, made sure my zip was done up properly. After I had completed all my checks, I was convinced there was nothing about me that would cause anybody to laugh. I walked into the canteen full of confidence, to be met with loud laughter and even clapping. Completely puzzled, I asked the supervisor what it was all about. [To be read in a broad Welsh accent]:- -- You have an admiiiiiiiiiirer, you know! -- How do you make that out? -- Yes, a real admiiiiirer! Do you want me to go and fetch her? There were screams from inside the kitchen as they tried to drag the young assistant out to meet me. I fled in alarm, and bought some sandwiches from the machine instead. -------------- Britain is divided into various zones, where different forms of address are used. You should never use "luv" in Anglesey, I learned by practical experience. "Darling" is often heard in Derbyshire, both by men addressing women and by women addressing men. I was mildly surprised to be called "darling" by the barmaid at a pub I visited in Chesterfield, but it means nothing. "Pet" and "petal" are common in the Newcastle upon Tyne area, but again it means nothing. Where are all the Geordies when you want them? I have even been addressed as "babe", in London. Serves me right for visiting a strip club in Soho. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. >> Today there is a letter in The Times (of London) in which the writer >> from the London area expresses his pleasure at being addressed as [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >have even been addressed as "babe", in London. Serves me right for visiting >a strip club in Soho. There is batch of follow-up letters in The Times today: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2713-2451019,00.html One of the writers wonders whether T. Edward Bevin had wandered into the red-light district when he visited Doncaster. From a man in Dartmouth, South Devon: Just today, in our little town centre, three nice but unknown ladies addressed me as "my lover". Another man said that he had been addressed in London as: "my dear mister friend" from an overly gregarious [sic] shopkeeper in Mile End. Bob Purdy of Sheffield suggests that those who addressed Mr Bevin might not have been locals. He makes comments about the regional usage of various forms of address. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Hi, native speakers of English, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2707-2445738,00.html > Yesterday's (November 15, 2006) crop of Pet Names letters: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2734-2453239,00.html includes one in which the salutation is: Sir (or may I say darling?), This may be a historic first. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) (Snip) > Yesterday's (November 15, 2006) crop of Pet Names letters: > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2734-2453239,00.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > This may be a historic first. Didn't Stephen Fry say (see upthread), get to utter the immortal line, "Don't call me darling, Darling"? Cheers, Sage >here is another question on usage. I understand "petal" can be used as an >(affectionate)address in British English. Is it about the same as "pet" >and/or does it have anything to do with rose etc petals? Again one of my >sources is the online dictionary found at peevish.co.uk.slang, which gives >no context or example. In OzE "petal" can be used in place of "pet" or "honey" as you mention, but also where one intends "delicate" or "too delicate", e.g., "I intended walking to the store, but I think I'll drive--the sunshine is a bit bright". "Aw, poor petal." Imagery of a delicate rose petal is spot on. SignatureJohn Savage (my news address is not valid for email) |
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