Now, I give you fair warning
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Xah Lee - 11 Nov 2006 16:53 GMT «‘Now, I give you fair warning,’ shouted the Queen, stamping on the ground as she spoke; ‘either you or your head must be off, and that in about half no time! Take your choice!’»
from Alice In Wonderland, Chapter 9 ( http://xahlee.org/p/alice/alice-ch09.html )
According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is not the stammerer missing a a in «‘Now, I give you fair warning,»?
Xah xah@xahlee.org ∑ http://xahlee.org/
Vera - 11 Nov 2006 17:33 GMT «'Now, I give you fair warning,' shouted the Queen, stamping on the ground as she spoke; 'either you or your head must be off, and that in about half no time! Take your choice!'»
from Alice In Wonderland, Chapter 9 ( http://xahlee.org/p/alice/alice-ch09.html )
According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is not the stammerer missing a a in «'Now, I give you fair warning,»?
missing an "a" or just "a" and, as far as I know, its use is not essential in this case.
Vera
Xah xah@xahlee.org ? http://xahlee.org/
Sweet Sugir - 11 Nov 2006 23:53 GMT > use is not essential in this case. O good...
Zah is non-essential, like you.
If only you could be a muse or /something/...
Poetry is behond ewe.
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Dennis M. Hammes - 12 Nov 2006 10:21 GMT > «'Now, I give you fair warning,' shouted the Queen, stamping on > the ground as she spoke; 'either you or your head must be off, and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > xah@xahlee.org > ? http://xahlee.org/ "Fair Warning" is actually a formalism that does not take the article but should be capped as a proper noun. When the actual use fell out of use, children grew up quoting what they'd heard, only, and without the defining parameters.
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Lars Eighner - 11 Nov 2006 18:05 GMT In our last episode, <1163264008.895148.297370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented Xah Lee broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> «?Now, I give you fair warning,? shouted the Queen, stamping on > the ground as she spoke; ?either you or your head must be off, and > that in about half no time! Take your choice!?»
> from Alice In Wonderland, Chapter 9 > ( http://xahlee.org/p/alice/alice-ch09.html )
> According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is > not the stammerer missing a a in «?Now, I give you fair warning,»? No, it is idiomatic as written. By "idiomatic," I mean I cannot explain it. Yes, it could be "give (a) fair warning," but usually it isn't.
He has had three warnings already. I'll let you off this time with a warning. I had no warning this could happen.
He stopped suddenly without warning.
Generally if "warning" means a thing that provides a warning such as a notice, sign, citation or official proceeding of some kind, then "warning" is countable. But if "warning" means an act of warning then it may be regarded as countable or not. If there is a rule, I do not know what it is.
 Signature Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner> Nine out of ten doctors agree that one out of ten doctors is an idiot.
Sweet Sugir - 11 Nov 2006 23:58 GMT > In our last episode, > <1163264008.895148.297370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > is countable. But if "warning" means an act of warning then it may be > regarded as countable or not. If there is a rule, I do not know what it is. You seem like a moron - generally. By "generally" I mean that a General has counted you with a warning.
Kaptain Kirk has placed a tractor beam on your Palm Roots...
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Dennis M. Hammes - 12 Nov 2006 10:23 GMT Sweet Sugir bragged:
> a moron - generally. We know.
 Signature -------(m+ ~/:o)_| I do not "negotiate" for half my baby back, Solomon. http://scrawlmark.org
Martin Ambuhl - 11 Nov 2006 18:13 GMT > According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is > not the stammerer missing a a in «‘Now, I give you fair warning,»? No. Why did you think so?
Sweet Sugir - 11 Nov 2006 23:54 GMT >> According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is >> not the stammerer missing a a in «‘Now, I give you fair warning,»? > > No. Why did you think so? Because Zah is an idiot?
A Zimple guess...
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Dennis M. Hammes - 12 Nov 2006 10:24 GMT > gerbil, gerbil, gerbil, gerbil... Miss him, don't you.
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Towse - 11 Nov 2006 21:05 GMT > «‘Now, I give you fair warning,’ shouted the Queen, stamping on > the ground as she spoke; ‘either you or your head must be off, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is > not the stammerer missing a a in «‘Now, I give you fair warning,»? No.
<http://www.google.com/search?q=give+fair+warning>
> Xah > xah@xahlee.org > ∑ http://xahlee.org/
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Eric Walker - 11 Nov 2006 22:14 GMT > «'Now, I give you fair warning,' shouted the Queen, stamping on > the ground as she spoke; 'either you or your head must be off, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is > not the stammerer missing a[n] a in «'Now, I give you fair warning,»? The right and idiomatic use of articles in English demonstrates the old rule "short words, long problems"; in Follett's _Modern American Usage_, the article titled "A, An, The" runs to 11 pages.
The presence or absence of the little monosyllable often conveys important distinctions, as it does here. The distinction at issue is that between the definite and the indefinite, the particular and the general. Here, "*a* warning" would be a definite, particular caution being issued; plain, article-less "warning" is indefinite and general, merely the _concept_ "warning" as opposed to some particular warning.
While the remark is followed by an explicit warning, we can see the distinction evidenced by the absence of a "that". Compare the Queen's actual remarks, with the ancillary material stripped, with an alternative including the article:
«Now, I give you fair warning, either you or your head must be off, and that in about half no time!»
«Now, I give you *a* fair warning *that* either you or your head must be off, and that in about half no time!»
In Carroll's actual casting, the Queen's warning that follows is an appendage to the remark, not a direct continuation of it; with the article included, the comma after the initial clause must correspondingly disappear, while in the original we feel that not only is the comma necessary, we wonder if a semi-colon or an em dash isn't really wanted, so unconnected is the actual, express warning from the introductory statement.
The clause "I give you fair warning" thus signifies "I am alerting you to a danger", but does not itself specify, or immediately lead into a specification of, that danger.
Xah Lee - 12 Nov 2006 04:37 GMT that's the best defense among the worthless. Thanks.
Xah xah@xahlee.org ∑ http://xahlee.org/
> > «'Now, I give you fair warning,' shouted the Queen, stamping on > > the ground as she spoke; 'either you or your head must be off, and [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > to a danger", but does not itself specify, or immediately lead into a > specification of, that danger. Oleg Lego - 12 Nov 2006 06:16 GMT The Xah Lee entity posted thusly:
>«Now, I give you fair warning, shouted the Queen, stamping on >the ground as she spoke; either you or your head must be off, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >According to standard grammarians and proper English style guiders, is >not the stammerer missing a a in «Now, I give you fair warning,»? I see you already have some good answers, but I am curious about your use of "stammerer". There is no stammering in the sentence.
Xah Lee - 12 Nov 2006 16:01 GMT its author, Lewis Carroll, is a stammerer.
Xah Lee
> The Xah Lee entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I see you already have some good answers, but I am curious about your > use of "stammerer". There is no stammering in the sentence. Robert Lieblich - 12 Nov 2006 16:07 GMT > its author, Lewis Carroll, is a stammerer. "Was"
dontbother - 12 Nov 2006 16:43 GMT > Xah Lee wrote: >> >> its author, Lewis Carroll, is a stammerer. > > "Was" Nope. "Is". I defintely saw him last night rappin' with Elvis and Vlad (a.k.a. "The Count"). They all offered me something druggie to drink. The stammer provided a terrific harmony.
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Robert Lieblich - 12 Nov 2006 16:54 GMT > > Xah Lee wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Vlad (a.k.a. "The Count"). They all offered me something druggie to > drink. The stammer provided a terrific harmony. I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, Franke, but I'm not in your class.
-- Alfred Hayes <http://www.peteseeger.net/joehill.htm>
the Omrud - 12 Nov 2006 17:17 GMT Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it:
> > > Xah Lee wrote: > > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, Franke, but I'm not in your > class. Of course not. If you were in his class, you'd be Taiwanese.
 Signature David =====
Xah Lee - 13 Nov 2006 04:00 GMT the problem with English grammar, in particular, the inflectional system, is that it meddles with content and thinking.
Exempli gratia:
I want to state that the person Lewis Carrol, stammers.
I am not concerned, about stating whether he is dead or alive. Nor, whether he corrected his problem or stutters still.
I cannot be bothered to pollute my writings with thoughts i do not wish to bring up in my readers. It screws my expression and muddies the meat.
The “standard” English practice: “its author, Lewis Carroll, _was_ a stammerer” for a dead man has a bag of problems. By the was, it flashes a distraction about the issue of dead or alive or whether he corrected the problem. And in general, irrelevant and misleading.
For another episode on this exhibition with regards to the s or plurality in English, see: Plurality in English Grammar and Communication Effectiveness http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/bangu/plurality.html
Xah xah@xahlee.org ∑ http://xahlee.org/
> > its author, Lewis Carroll, is a stammerer. > > "Was" Oleg Lego - 13 Nov 2006 04:16 GMT The Xah Lee entity posted thusly:
>the problem with English grammar, in particular, the inflectional >system, is that it meddles with content and thinking. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >to bring up in my readers. It screws my expression and muddies the >meat. Well, you muddied it pretty well when you explicitly mentioned "the stammerer" without context. It caused me enough of a hiccup to divert me from the meat of the question, long enough so that others answered.
Amethyst Deceiver - 13 Nov 2006 18:54 GMT >the problem with English grammar, in particular, the inflectional >system, is that it meddles with content and thinking. > >Exempli gratia: > >I want to state that the person Lewis Carrol, stammers. But he doesn't.
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Roland Hutchinson - 13 Nov 2006 19:02 GMT >>the problem with English grammar, in particular, the inflectional >>system, is that it meddles with content and thinking. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > But he doesn't. Moreover, he doesn't stammer for two reasons: (1) on account of being dead, and (2) on account of there being no such person.
And (3) what is more, there never was any such person.
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Tony Cooper - 13 Nov 2006 20:13 GMT >>>the problem with English grammar, in particular, the inflectional >>>system, is that it meddles with content and thinking. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >And (3) what is more, there never was any such person. I'm not sure I agree with (3). What defines that a person exists or existed? The use of the name as given at birth? The name is just the tag we use to identify the person we're talking about.
That premise knocks (1) and (2) out of consideration since there very well could be a living person named Lewis Carrol (sic) who was given that name at birth.
Is an adopted person, given a new name by his adoptive parents, not really a person because he or she is being called by the "wrong" name?
The Rev Dodgson was just as much Lewis Carroll as he was Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. The tag refers to the writer.
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Roland Hutchinson - 13 Nov 2006 20:19 GMT > The Rev Dodgson was just as much Lewis Carroll as he was Charles > Lutwidge Dodgson. The tag refers to the writer. The Rev. Dodgson would have disagreed with you, I think. At any rate he used to have mail addressed to the other chap returned to sender.
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Evan Kirshenbaum - 13 Nov 2006 23:34 GMT >> The Rev Dodgson was just as much Lewis Carroll as he was Charles >> Lutwidge Dodgson. The tag refers to the writer. > > The Rev. Dodgson would have disagreed with you, I think. At any > rate he used to have mail addressed to the other chap returned to > sender. It appears that it was a little more complicated than that. Morton Cohen writes in his biography of Carroll:
Charles did try to isolate C.L. Dodgson from Lewis Carroll. He returned unopened letters that arrived at Christ Church addressed to Lewis Carroll; he sought, unsuccessfully, to have Bodley's Librarian delete from the catalogue cross-references to his two names; he wrote third-person letters objecting to correspondents making the connection. He appealed plaintively to the editor of a forthcoming _Dictionary of Anonymous and Pseudonymous Literature_ to "erase the paragraph" in which he was mentioned, adding that if she had ever reaped any pleasure from reading his works, "do not, I entreat you, repay it by the cruelty of breaking through a disguise which it is my most earnest wish to maintain," and here he succeeded.
But none of these efforts arose out of a deep-seated duality; they aimed only at retaining a semblance of privacy.
The implication I take from that is that letters addressed to "Lewis Carroll" that went to his publisher were answered; it was only those that linked Carroll and Dodgson that he returned. As to why, Cohen says later
But Charles's efforts to keep his two identities separate were motivated by more than his wish for privacy. He realized that if the world knew that Charles Dodgson and Lewis Carroll were one, professional pundits might shrug off his mathematical works; indeed some reviews of his serious books fell into that superficial mode when the writers linked the two names.
So it sounds as though he was both; he just didn't want people to realize that they were the same person.
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Sweet Sugir - 14 Nov 2006 03:08 GMT Zahlee.org is operated by people whose brain was donated to shinance.
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