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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006If you can't say "jelly"...
The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had mispronounced the word, he kept saying the word attempting to get it right. I was kind of laughing, and said "If you can't say jelly, say jam". My son was totally confused since the word had nothing to do with jelly or jam. I told him that "If you can't say jelly, say jam" was an expression that means "Use a substitute word". He thinks I made that up on the spot, but I think it's a known expression even if it has limited use today. Now I'm doubt. Is this just an expression that was used by my parents and grandparents, or is it a known expression used by others?  SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > I told him that "If you can't say jelly, say jam" was > an expression that means "Use a substitute word". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > just an expression that was used by my parents and grandparents, or is > it a known expression used by others? I think it's pretty limited in use -- no google results, etc. Searching OED2 for "if you can't say" I got only one result, creating another mystery: 1878 Cumberld. Gloss., Do n't ill a body if you can't say weel o' yan. "Weel o' yan" sounds like a mystical incantation capable of healing, no? Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > > I told him that "If you can't say jelly, say jam" was > > an expression that means "Use a substitute word". [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "Weel o' yan" sounds like a mystical incantation capable of healing, > no? But perfectly on topic, since "yan", meaning "one", is the start of the Cumberland sheep-counting numbers. A search for "yan tyan tethera" will give you at least as much information as you want. SignatureJerry Friedman jerry_friedman@yahoo.com <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> had it: > > > I told him that "If you can't say jelly, say jam" was > > > an expression that means "Use a substitute word". [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Cumberland sheep-counting numbers. A search for "yan tyan tethera" > will give you at least as much information as you want. And at this very moment, Jake Thackray is singing through my PC's speakers. SignatureDavid ===== > But perfectly on topic, since "yan", meaning "one", is the start of the > Cumberland sheep-counting numbers. A search for "yan tyan tethera" > will give you at least as much information as you want. Thanks. "Yan" = "one," clearly. The glossary entry seems to be saying one of two things, (a) don't say something negative about another person if you can't say positive things about yourself; or (b) don't say something negative about another person without mentioning their positive qualities also. The latter reading seems better, on balance, but I just can't decide which is the intended message. (I'll try to take both possible messages home). Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >Thanks. "Yan" = "one," clearly. The glossary entry seems to be saying >one of two things, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >which is the intended message. (I'll try to take both possible >messages home). Or, as Thumper's mother was wont to say, "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all." > Or, as Thumper's mother was wont to say, "If you can't say something > nice about someone, don't say anything at all." That's the third message I'll try to take home. BTW, Barry Popik appears to have antedated Thumper's mother: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0404A&L=ADS-L&P=R1692&I=-3 Gettysburg Times - 9/20/1922 ... IF YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT PEOPLE DON'T SAY [ANYTHING] Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego Hi to all friends, Hey, i am new to this group and just started learning english. Hope, you all will help me. I am too writing my blog learning grammer and vocubulary. I have just started and may be you will not mind my mistakes.my blog is here.. http://enggrammer.blogspot.com/ Bye Please check if possible those sentences i have made of words "ruse" and "satiate". > The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he > mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > this just an expression that was used by my parents and > grandparents, or is it a known expression used by others? I've never heard it before. It doesn't show up in a Google web search, a Google Books search, an _LA Times_ search, or--with the exception of this thread-- a Google Usenet search. So if it's used outside your family, it would appear to not be widespread. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Those who would give up essential 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Liberty, to purchase a little Palo Alto, CA 94304 |temporary Safety, deserve neither |Liberty nor Safety. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Benjamin Franklin (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he >> mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >exception of this thread-- a Google Usenet search. So if it's used >outside your family, it would appear to not be widespread. It could be a family joke. Maybe someone in the family, when very young, couldn't pronounce "jelly". I don't know how to search for other uses. Long phrases like this are very hard to Googlesearch. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he > mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > just an expression that was used by my parents and grandparents, or is > it a known expression used by others? Nothing that I have ever heard. It's not bad, though. > > The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he > > mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nothing that I have ever heard. It's not bad, though. Wouldn't be much cop in Blighty, though, where jam is a preserve while jelly is a set pudding (AmE = "dessert"?) made with gelatin. Will. > The other day my son said something that came out wrong because he > mispronounced a word in the sentence. Knowing that he had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > just an expression that was used by my parents and grandparents, or is > it a known expression used by others? Not known to me. I believe an old expression was discussed here once, "It's gottta be jelly 'cause jam don't shake like that." At least it puts the two in apposition. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > Is this > just an expression that was used by my parents and grandparents, or is > it a known expression used by others? It's in the punchline to an old joke about trying to get Murfar* to pronounce "jelly". "Yoompin yimminy! Ay yoost learn how to say 'jelly', and dey chanche it to 'yam'!" SignatureStefano * Swedish for "maternal grandfather". |
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