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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006'wishie washie' meaning
anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in conversational english, but I have no idea what's the meaning. Please advice. thanks... > anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the > context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in > conversational english, but I have no idea what's the meaning. > > Please advice. thanks... If you use the correct spelling -- wishy-washy -- you can look it up in any of several online dictionaries. Try starting here: <http://www.onelook.com/?w=wishy-washy&ls=a>.  SignatureBob Lieblich Quite definite >> anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the >> context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in any of several online dictionaries. Try starting here: > <http://www.onelook.com/?w=wishy-washy&ls=a>. Wishie-Washie is also the name of the other of Widow Twankey's two sons in the pantomime Aladdin. The other other son is, of course, the eponym. (Wasn't there a recent thread about Aladdin?) Cheers, Sage >>> anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the >>> context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > eponym. > (Wasn't there a recent thread about Aladdin?) Pardon me for having a moment of complete not-getting-it-ism. Do you mean the other son is named "Wishy-Washy"? And/or: "eponym" of what? -- Maria Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it: > >>> anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the > >>> context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > And/or: "eponym" of what? The pantomime is called "Aladdin", or sometimes "Aladdin and the Forty Thieves", so the other, eponymic, son is Aladdin himself. Wishy-Washy (I have no idea of the spelling) is the other son of Widow Twankey. SignatureDavid ===== > Maria had it: >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Wishy-Washy (I have no idea of the spelling) is the other son of > Widow Twankey. Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. Maria Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it: > > Maria had it: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. You're welcome. And I urge any visitors to these shores within a month of Christmas to attend a pantomime. It's a uniquely British form of theatre which is huge fun for all the family and in which the audience has a specific and well-understood participatory role to play. Oh yes they do. SignatureDavid ===== [...] > You're welcome. And I urge any visitors to these shores within a > month of Christmas to attend a pantomime. It's a uniquely British [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oh yes they do. I'm behind you on that. Student ones are not to be neglected, either, if you're in a major university town: if you like it saucy ("I'm the Wicked Queen!") and AUEish, the good ones are better than the public shows. But it's a sheer delight to be in a family audience at a standard panto and witness the children's reactions. SignatureMike. >> Maria had it: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. > Maria Saved me a job, too. Ta, la. One should also point out that Widow Twankey is, ta, da, a washerwoman/runs a laundry. I played "her' a couple of years ago .. I even beat Sir Ian to it. Cheers, Sage >> Maria had it: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. Oh no it didn't SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> Maria had it: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Oh no it didn't Details, please. (I thought I understood sage's comment thanks to David's reply, but ICBW, I suppose.) Now /really/ confused, SignatureMaria Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it: > >>> Maria had it: > >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Now /really/ confused, Maria, you will have to accept it from me that John's post of four words is the funniest thing I've read on Usenet this week. I'm sitting here giggling uncontrollably. It's all tied up with the conventions of the pantomime. The audience has certain roles to perform, which includes reacting to statements from the characters on stage. Usually, these reactions consist of contradictions such as "Oh no he isn't", or "Oh yes it is". You probably read straight through the line at the bottom of my previous message to you, which said "Oh yes they do". I put that there as a joke to the Brits. Thus is our culture formed. SignatureDavid ===== >>>> Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. >>> Oh no it didn't [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thus is our culture formed. Oh, no it isn't :-) This is also why Mike Lyle posted, earlier in the thread, "I'm behind you there". Another convention of audience participation frequently found in pantomime is where the hero (who, naturally, is "nice but dim") can't see the person he needs to see (or arrest, or whatever, or because the villain is about to bash him on the head with a string of sausages, or...) because he's behind him. The audience will prompt him ("he's behind you") - and a carefully choreographed chase will ensue, during which our hero still cannot see. Oh, and the lead "male" role will always be played by a woman (the "principal boy" in stagespeak), and villainous "women" by men (the "dame"). The principal boy is always a tomboyish figure (Bonnie Langford springs to mind) and the dame(s) is/are men of a certain age and size - Laurel and Hardy would have made ideal ugly sisters in Cinderella. As they say, you have to be there. It's a very British product of a more innocent age, but if it's well done, to a live audience, it's good - though I haven't been to one for years. Jonathan >>>>> Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. >>>> Oh no it didn't [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >Jonathan Pantomimes are also performed in Ireland (Republic of). Googlefinds: Cork Opera House http://www.corkkerry.ie/individual_results.asp?sID=15694 Event Title: Aladdin - Christmas Pantomime Description: The magic carpet adventure! Rub the magic lamp and see your wishes come true! Get ready for thrills, excitement and lots of surprises in the classic tale of Aladdin and the magic lamp. Join Aladdin, his crazy mother Widow Twankey and all his hilarious friends including Wishee Washee, Strong Pong and of course magical Genie of the Lamp as they embark on a truly amazing quest to rescue the princess and the lamp. But who will succeed? This exotic adventure will capture the imaginations of children and adults alike! The Olympia Theatre Dublin is staging "Cinders" (the standard nickname for Cinderella). http://entertainment.ie/event/CindersThePantomime/2333971.htm The Olympia Theatre is on -- Oh Joy! -- Dame Street. And : http://www.thisistheatre.com/regional/gaietytheatre.html Dublin Gaiety Theatre's traditional family pantomime for 2006 is Mother Goose. The story so far... Meet Mother Goose, Dublin's Number One straight-talking, street-wise Panto Dame! Raising sixteen children is hard enough, but Mother Goose also has an evil rent collector to contend with. How can the gift of a goose called Prescilla possibly be the answer to all Mother Goose's problems?....or is it just the start of them?! Join her in an adventure so funny it'll have you rolling in the aisles! A lost princess, a hilarious Dame, great music and even a flying goose! With outstanding performances, special effects and that great holiday season feel-good factor, come and see just what Mother Goose is going to do next! With Shane Creevey, Kate Brennan and Michael Grennell.. There are pantomimes in other places in Ireland. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [ ... ] > Maria, you will have to accept it from me that John's post of four > words is the funniest thing I've read on Usenet this week. I'm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from the characters on stage. Usually, these reactions consist of > contradictions such as "Oh no he isn't", or "Oh yes it is". Aha! The germ of "The Argument Clinic." > You probably read straight through the line at the bottom of my > previous message to you, which said "Oh yes they do". I put that > there as a joke to the Brits. > > Thus is our culture formed. Oh no it isn't. David, you may have inadvertently explained why the veddy British couple next to whom Mrs. Bob and I sat [1] at the performance of the Reduced Shakespeare Company that we attended during our most recent visit to London (Dec. 2001) were completly nonplussed by the humor. Sharon and I sat there barely able to control our bladder sphincters (and we were younger them), and they were deadpan through almost the entire thing. At the end, they asked us what was so funny, and we had no idea how to explain. But now I know what their problem was -- the audience didn't get to participate. I must write to Mr. Reduced Shakespeare [2] and suggest to him that he solicit audience participation henceforth. Pantomime is as foreign to the average American as Marmite. To us, what defines pantomime is the absence of speech -- mime, if you will. "Talking pantomime" is an oxymoron. The Atlantic remains as wide as ever. [1] Just showing off. [2] What do you get if you put Shakespeare on a diet? > [2] What do you get if you put Shakespeare on a diet? Sse? SignatureRay UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 0 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > [2] What do you get if you put Shakespeare on a diet? > > Sse? I love light humor. Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > David, you may have inadvertently explained why the veddy British > couple next to whom Mrs. Bob and I sat [1] at the performance of the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Shakespeare [2] and suggest to him that he solicit audience > participation henceforth. I have seen the Reduced Shakespeare Company in London, twice I think, and I found them terribly funny. So perhaps your neighbours at the performance just had no sense of humour. SignatureDavid ===== >Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Shakespeare [2] and suggest to him that he solicit audience >> participation henceforth. I've been wondering whether they were unfamiliar with the non-reduced versions of the plays. >I have seen the Reduced Shakespeare Company in London, twice I think, >and I found them terribly funny. So perhaps your neighbours at the >performance just had no sense of humour. Also possible -- on its own or in combination. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and I found them terribly funny. So perhaps your neighbours at the > performance just had no sense of humour. Hysterical, they are. I loved their version of the Bible and the American history one was superb, although I did feel slightly worried sitting in a theatre in Oxford, a few seats away from a colleague and his French partner, joining in with a hearty chorus of "But we all hate the French". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > > Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > his French partner, joining in with a hearty chorus of "But we all hate > the French". I nearly fell off my seat when Banquo's ghost appeared. SignatureDavid ===== > LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I nearly fell off my seat when Banquo's ghost appeared. Had a similar effect on Macbeth, I understand. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and I found them terribly funny. So perhaps your neighbours at the > performance just had no sense of humour. Yup. We've seen them do their "Complete Works of Shakespeare" in Oxford and London and both times we, and the rest of the audience, were howling with laughter. And there was a certain amount of audience participation too. I recollect people who "didn't join in" having the lights turned up on them while others were pretty much forced on stage to help out. We also saw their "Bible: Complete Word of God." But I'm not surprised that some people didn't get it. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > We also saw their "Bible: Complete Word of God." > But I'm not surprised that some people didn't get it. I also think they are very funny. I didn't get Robert's word "veddy" in his post quoted above. I can usually work out the meaning of unfamiliar AmE-isms (and I've worked out that this one isn't exactly complimentary) but what exactly does it mean, and what's the origin? Jonathan > >> Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > >> > >>> David, you may have inadvertently explained why the veddy British > >>> couple... > I also think they are very funny. I didn't get Robert's word "veddy" in > his post quoted above. I can usually work out the meaning of unfamiliar > AmE-isms (and I've worked out that this one isn't exactly complimentary) > but what exactly does it mean, and what's the origin? It means 'very'. Writing 'veddy British' gives an impression of people with cut-glass accents and an over-exaggerated 'English' manner (including no apparent sense of humour, in this case), but it's not actually uncomplimentary per se. Of course it's not a d, it's the same flapped r the Spanish, Croatians, Japanese use, but to American ears it's 'veddy'. The same sound is apparently why some AmE accents make 'ladder' and 'latter' sound exactly the same. Jac >> >> Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >it's 'veddy'. The same sound is apparently why some AmE accents make >'ladder' and 'latter' sound exactly the same. Funnily enough, YoungBloke has been varying between "welly" and "veddy" for some time but is slowly becoming consistent with "very". SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>> Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Now /really/ confused, It's a pantomime convention. One of the actors makes a remark. The audience calls out "Oh no he didn't!" in response. The actor replies "Oh yes he did!" (or it might be the other way round). This goes on for a few exchanges and then the action resumes. This is common to all British pantomimes. Oh yes it is. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>> Thank you, David. Your answer washed away the unclearness. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Oh yes it is. There's no answer to that! The occasional "foreigner" is enticed into the world of panto. This panto season (2006 to 2007) will see Henry Winkler playing Captain Hook in the pantomime version of Peter Pan at the New Wimbledon Theatre. http://tinyurl.com/yl9azd or http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/leisure/onstage/display.var.933387.0.panto_pe ter_pan_new_wimbledon_theatre.php Making his UK stage debut, Winkler will star alongside veteran panto performer Bobby Davro as Smee, and CBeebies'[1] Sarah-Jane Honeywell as Peter. The role is a new direction for the American star but he is looking forward to taking on the challenge. Mr Winkler said: "I am so excited about playing Captain Hook. When I had my first fitting for the costume[2], and got into my make-up - my Lord, I suddenly felt like Captain Hook and my foot turned out into fifth position. He's a bad guy, but I truly believe he's misunderstood. You have your hand eaten by a crocodile, that's got to create some anger and resentment. Especially if he can't tie his boots, he can't do up buckles, he can't properly hug anyone. "All I know about panto is that it's been a tradition since 1607 and I am one of the first Americans ever to be invited to do this. That is absolutely thrilling, however you cut the ice, and I am over the moon. There will be 40 people on that stage, singing, dancing and creating great comedy." David Hasselhof was originally booked for the role but had to pull out because the run clashes with Simon Cowell's new TV series America's Got Talent, in which he is set to star. [1] Cbeebies is the BBC channel for children aged 0 to 5 (or thereabouts). [2] The article includes a picture of Winkler in his Captain Hook costume. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >The occasional "foreigner" is enticed into the world of panto. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > panto performer Bobby Davro as Smee, and CBeebies'[1] Sarah-Jane > Honeywell as Peter. Patrick Duffy is due to play Baron Hardup at Woking, too. http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1947149,00.html SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > The occasional "foreigner" is enticed into the world of panto. > > This panto season (2006 to 2007) will see Henry Winkler playing > Captain Hook in the pantomime version of Peter Pan at the New > Wimbledon Theatre. Now that's what I call a career arc: from jumping the shark to being chased by a ticking crocodile in a mere three decades! SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>> Maria had it: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Now /really/ confused, You would understand these things if you watched more Public TV. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>> Maria had it: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Now /really/ confused, Behind you! SignatureBrad Germolene > Maria> wrought: >> Details, please. (I thought I understood sage's comment thanks to >> David's reply, but ICBW, I suppose.) >> >> Now /really/ confused, > > Behind you! Other replies to my post explained about British "pantomimes" and the customs of the audiences thereof. If you haven't read those replies, try searching Google Groups. (I'd tell you what the replies were, but they're already gone from my list.) Happy Hunting. SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >> Maria> wrought: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > try searching Google Groups. (I'd tell you what the replies were, but > they're already gone from my list.) Happy Hunting. You *shall* go to the ball! SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> Maria> wrought: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >You *shall* go to the ball! I can't hear you. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>> Maria> wrought: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I can't hear you. Now that I know who Brad really is, I realize how silly my reply to him was. Youse guys are way too smart for me.... SignatureMaria There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it: > >>>> Maria> wrought: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Youse guys are way too smart for me.... Oh no we're not. SignatureDavid ===== > Maria <marian.c-b@sbcglobal.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Oh no we're not. Three years at sea and no sign of Dick SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > Wishie-Washie is also the name of the other of Widow Twankey's two sons in > the pantomime Aladdin. The other other son is, of course, the eponym. > > (Wasn't there a recent thread about Aladdin?) BrE pronunciation of Aladdin puts the stress on the second syllable, but I've heard it on the last syllable in Indian English. Is this the more correct pronunciation? Matthew Huntbach Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > > Wishie-Washie is also the name of the other of Widow Twankey's two sons in > > the pantomime Aladdin. The other other son is, of course, the eponym. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I've heard it on the last syllable in Indian English. Is this the more correct > pronunciation? I assume it's an Arabic name, hence "Al'Haddin" or something similar. That would have the stress on the final syllable. SignatureDavid ===== > Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I assume it's an Arabic name, hence "Al'Haddin" or something similar. > That would have the stress on the final syllable. If Wikipedia is to be trusted - "Aladdin (a corruption of the Arabic name 'Ala 'ad-Din, Arabic: ???? ????? literally "nobility of faith") " But I'd say the second syllable stress is the "correct" pronunciation for the anglicised version. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > > Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> I've heard it on the last syllable in Indian English. Is this the > >> more correct pronunciation? indian english perhaps reflects the final long vowel of trhe arabic > > I assume it's an Arabic name, hence "Al'Haddin" or something similar. > > That would have the stress on the final syllable. > > If Wikipedia is to be trusted - "Aladdin (a corruption of the Arabic name > 'Ala 'ad-Din, Arabic: ???? ????? literally "nobility of faith") " 3ala:'uddi:n loftiness of the religion > But I'd say the second syllable stress is the "correct" pronunciation for > the anglicised version. > > > Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > the anglicised version. > > -- But "wish-wash" (or is it "wash-wish"?) is colloquial Arabic for "whisper". SignatureMike. > > > > Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > > > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > But "wish-wash" (or is it "wash-wish"?) is colloquial Arabic for > "whisper". wiswa:s is standard arabic.. > > > > > Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > wiswa:s is standard arabic.. so is wa*sh*wa*sh*a(t). [...] > > > But "wish-wash" (or is it "wash-wish"?) is colloquial Arabic for > > > "whisper". > > > > wiswa:s is standard arabic.. > > so is wa*sh*wa*sh*a(t). Thanks: didn't know it was standard. SignatureMike. >>>>>> Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> had it: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > so is wa*sh*wa*sh*a(t). Going back to Widow Twankey -- and this is apropos yusuf's interesting material -- it seems she got her name from a type of Chinese tea which was very popular with the late Victorians. It was called Twan Key (or something similar). You can check the pantomime web sites for details. Cheers, Sage > anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the > context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in > conversational english, but I have no idea what's the meaning. > > Please advice. thanks... flip-flopping when having to make a decision, I guess >> anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the >> context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >flip-flopping when having to make a decision, I guess I would consider "wishy washy" to mean unable to arrive at a decision or unable to arrive at a definitive decision. The flip-flopper arrives at a decision, and then changes his mind. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> anyone knows what's the meaning of 'wishie washie' ?? I guess the >>> context is used to refer to certain people's behaviors in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >or unable to arrive at a definitive decision. The flip-flopper >arrives at a decision, and then changes his mind. I think "wishy-washy" (not just about behaviors, but also about character) is pretty similar to "wet". "He's a bit wishy-washy" and "he's a bit wet" seem to mean the same thing to me. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon |
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