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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006the word 'italics' - plural or sing?
I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me reads: Italics indicate soloists. Should it be 'indicate' or 'indicateS' ? I'd like to just reword it as "Soloists in italics", but don't dare cross the director. Thanks > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me > reads: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'd like to just reword it as "Soloists in italics", but don't > dare cross the director. I'd stick with what you've got. "Italic" is a singular noun, according to Merriam-Webster 11, so "Italics indicate soloists" is correct. You might consider using a dictionary before asking such a fundamental question. There are plenty on ther Net even if you don't own one yourself.  SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." dontbother <dontbother@mushmail.mom> had it: > > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me > > reads: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > fundamental question. There are plenty on ther Net even if you don't > own one yourself. I'm not sure this is so simple, although it seemed so at first. - The use of italics indicates soloists. - *Italics* indicates soloists. - Italics indicate soloists. I think that I would accept either form, although in the former I would have to infer some typographical difference between Italics and the rest of the sentence. I have to stop now as staring at the word "italics" has robbed it of all meaning. SignatureDavid ===== > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me reads: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'd like to just reword it as "Soloists in italics", but don't dare > cross the director. There is no real need for either a concert poster or a concert programme to print out its typographic conventions as well as the musical information. You ought to be able to find a model (to copy) that identifies the soloists unambiguously without needing a note on how to read it. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me reads: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that identifies the soloists unambiguously > without needing a note on how to read it. Yes. Of course! Something like: "Oboe - George Curme (s)" would do it. Just add 's' in parentheses after the name. >> > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me >> > reads: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Yes. Of course! Something like: "Oboe - George Curme (s)" would do it. > Just add 's' in parentheses after the name. And then add a note that "(s)" indicates soloists. If you do anything more cryptic than "(solo)" or "(soloist)", I'd recommend explaining your convention. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |You cannot solve problems with the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |same type of thinking that created Palo Alto, CA 94304 |them. | Albert Einstein kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ On 16 Nov 2006, Don Phillipson wrote >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me >> reads: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that identifies the soloists unambiguously > without needing a note on how to read it. I took the OP's post to indicate that he knows that, but that he wasn't looking for opinions on an appropriate useful alternative construction. So, let's answer the question which was asked: if, for various reasons, one needs to use the constructon "Italics indicate" or "Italics indicates", which would you use? I think either can be defended, but I'd use "indicate"; apparent agreement, and all that. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > I took the OP's post to indicate that he knows that, but that he > wasn't looking for opinions on an appropriate useful alternative [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think either can be defended, but I'd use "indicate"; apparent > agreement, and all that. Thank you for grasping the situation, for not referring me to a dictionary, and for a straight forward answer. I should have supplied a better explanation. It's a list of 70 singers, and among them are soloists who will each be singing different selections during many performances. Short of printing a complex chart or a different program for each performance, the director decided to just italicize the names within the list and keep the audience guessing as to who's who. If anyone has a suggestion, I still have time to redesign. On 16 Nov 2006, wrote >> I took the OP's post to indicate that he knows that, but that >> he wasn't looking for opinions on an appropriate useful [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thank you for grasping the situation, for not referring me to a > dictionary, and for a straight forward answer. Yer welcome... It annoys me that any question posted on Usenet in the form "Of these two options -- X and Y -- which is better?" invariably elicits the answer "Z", "B", "M", "Q", or anything at all, as long as it's not "X" or "Y". SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van Harvey Van Sickle: > It annoys me that any question posted on Usenet in the form "Of these > two options -- X and Y -- which is better?" invariably elicits the > answer "Z", "B", "M", "Q", or anything at all, as long as it's not > "X" or "Y". Unfortunately, there some questions where it actually is more helpful to suggest "Z", "B", "M", or "Q", and others where it is not. People trying to be helpful often guess wrongly as to which ones are which. SignatureMark Brader | "Follow my posts and choose the opposite msb@vex.net | of what I use. That generally works here." Toronto | --Tony Cooper >Unfortunately, there some questions where it actually is more helpful >to suggest "Z", "B", "M", or "Q", and others where it is not. People >trying to be helpful often guess wrongly as to which ones are which. When I saw this subject heading, the only thing I could think of was, "No, that's not right, the M and the Z run with the J, not B and Q!" (And it turns out that the B and the Q don't even run together these days.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness Mark Brader: >> Unfortunately, there some questions where it actually is more helpful >> to suggest "Z", "B", "M", or "Q" ... Garrett Wollman: > When I saw this subject heading, the only thing I could think of was, > "No, that's not right, the M and the Z run with the J, not B and Q!" Yes, but after all, the subject was about suggesting alternatives! > (And it turns out that the B and the Q don't even run together these > days.) You see what happens when you let the token be abolished? SignatureMark Brader, Toronto Rocket, 1829: The first 30 mph train. msb@vex.net TGV-A, 1989: The first 300 mph train. wollman@csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) wrote [...] >>Unfortunately, there some questions where it actually is more >>helpful to suggest "Z", "B", "M", or "Q", and others where it is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > B and Q!" (And it turns out that the B and the Q don't even run > together these days.) They do here in Taiwan. In my city, we have two big B & Qs. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." On 17 Nov 2006, Mark Brader wrote > Harvey Van Sickle: >> It annoys me that any question posted on Usenet in the form "Of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > not. People trying to be helpful often guess wrongly as to > which ones are which. But one should have the decency to answer the question which is asked before -- or after -- proceeding to address the one that wasn't asked. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 17 Nov 2006, Mark Brader wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > before -- or after -- proceeding to address the one that wasn't > asked. >From my experience in discussion groups, most 'questions' are framed with imprefect understanding of the options. It is therefore apt to reveal them to the inquirer. > -- > Cheers, Harvey > > Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed > For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me reads: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks The whole thing is wrong. Here's how to do it: "The names of soloists are set in italic type" or "The names of soloists are set in italic". > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "The names of soloists are set in italic type" or "The names of > soloists are set in italic". That's what the OP wants to do but doesn't dare to. So, in your opinion, is "italics" a singular or plural noun? SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So, in your opinion, is "italics" a singular or plural noun? 'Italics' seems to me to be plural. "Set in italic" is all that is needed. > -- > Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor > Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. > Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com > "Impatience is the mother of misery." >> > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: >> >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >'Italics' seems to me to be plural. "Set in italic" is all that is >needed. "Italics" is indeed plural, but only inasmuch as it's an abbreviation of "italic characters"; when it's singular it's crying out for a noun -- "set in italic type/text" or something. Think of "italic" as being like the "capital" of "capital letters": we can say things are written "in capital letters" or "in capitals" but not "in capital". SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) > >> > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > we can say things are written "in capital letters" or "in capitals" > but not "in capital". Or 'caps'. >>>>> Italics indicate soloists. >>>>> >>>>> Should it be 'indicate' or 'indicateS' ? > "Italics" is indeed plural, but only inasmuch as it's an abbreviation > of "italic characters"; when it's singular it's crying out for a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > we can say things are written "in capital letters" or "in capitals" > but not "in capital". Capitals indicate shouting. I'd be nervous about using "indicates" in that sentence. It would then be short for "A capital letter indicates shouting", which in turn would suggest that the letters must be shouted one at a time. Given that, I'm happiest with "Italics indicate soloists" in the original example. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> I'm setting up a program for a concert. The text given to me [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So, in your opinion, is "italics" a singular or plural noun? Webster agrees with my notion: Main Entry:2italic Pronunciation:* Function:noun Inflected Form:-s 1 sometimes capitalized a : an italic character : italic type *an italic is used at the beginning of each subdivision* *introduced italics as a device for achieving emphasis* *printed in italic* *a font of italics* b : a written letter or number or other character (as in a handwritten or typed manuscript) that is underscored for emphasis or for some other purpose achieved in print by the use of italic type or that is so underscored (as in a handwritten or typed manuscript sent to a printer) to indicate that the matter underscored is to be set in italic type *each italic is clearly underlined* *writes a delighted *yes!* with italics and a mark of exclamation R.G.F.Robinson* *after the underscored sentence in the manuscript the author writes *italics mine** c usually italics plural but sometimes singular in construction : exaggerated intonation or some similar oral speech device by which one or more words is heavily and usually affectedly emphasized or otherwise given sharp prominence *was yapping, her silly voice fraught with italics Margaret Long* *a woman who has an irritating way of speaking in italics W.J.Locke* 2 capitalized a : a branch of the Indo-European language family that includes Latin and other languages (as Oscan, Umbrian) spoken by the peoples of ancient Italy and that also includes the Romance languages (as Italian, French, Spanish) descended from Latin b : the group of ancient languages of this branch as contrasted with the modern Romance languages c : OSCO-UMBRIAN nted in italic* *a font of italics* b : a written letter or number or other character (as in a handwritten or typed manuscript) that is underscored for emphasis or for some other purpose achieved in print by the use of italic type or that is so underscored (as in a handwritten or typed manuscript sent to a printer) to indicate that the matter underscored is to be set in italic type *each italic is clearly underlined* *writes a delighted *yes!* with it > dontbother wrote: >> > gwehrenb@bellsouth.net wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Webster agrees with my notion So do I. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." |
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