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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Question marks after a sentance
If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you don't put a question mark after this. "But do you think I will find myself in a relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you would here. > If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a > relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you don't > put a question mark after this. > > "But do you think I will find myself in a relationship of good friends > with anybody there." I suppose you would here. Both are questions. Both should have question marks at the end. Does the word "I" in a question change it from a question to a statement? No. Do I really mean this? Yes, I do. Should you believe me? Yes, you should. (Others in the group may point out that you really shouldn't start a sentence with the word "but".) >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a >> relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (Others in the group may point out that you really shouldn't start a > sentence with the word "but".) Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good friends ..." mean?  SignatureSkitt Avoiding being in any relationships of late. > >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a > >> relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good friends ..." > mean? Recipient of Good & Plentys is in relationship with good friends... meaning good and plenties are good and they r many, ergo plenty... subject is in relationship with object ,,,.. until they r gone gone. > Recipient of Good & Plentys is in relationship with good friends... > meaning good and plenties are good and they r many, ergo plenty... > subject is in relationship with object ,,,.. until they r gone gone. "r"? ",,,.."? Peacenik filted: >> Recipient of Good & Plentys is in relationship with good friends... >> meaning good and plenties are good and they r many, ergo plenty... >> subject is in relationship with object ,,,.. until they r gone gone. > >"r"? Why is everyone looking at me?...r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good >> friends ..." mean? > Recipient of Good & Plentys is in relationship with good friends... > meaning good and plenties are good and they r many, ergo plenty... > subject is in relationship with object ,,,.. until they r gone gone. Would you like to try writing that again, but this time in English? SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good > >> friends ..." mean? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford > My accent may vary I think that true lovers of English, which I am, play with the darling and even like to f*ck around with it. When I am not focused on the mundane, the love of English surges through my amygdala to find expresstion on the tongue of my mind. [ ... ] > I think that true lovers of English, which I am, play with the darling > and even like to f*ck around with it. When I am not focused on the > mundane, the love of English surges through my amygdala to find > expresstion on the tongue of my mind. You are Kiralynne Purl Gurl AICMFEuro. SignatureBob Lieblich Elementary, my dear Watson > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Bob Lieblich > Elementary, my dear Watson Hello Robert, I Googled Purl Gurl and found Dr. Kiralynne Schilitubi Professor of English. The little that I read of hers was interesting but I would be a bit foolish to take your declarative as a compliment. Trust me, I am not a professor of English... honest Injun ;) But Sherlock was one of my first loves. Holly Robert Lieblich <r_s_lieblich@yahoo.com> had it: > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You are Kiralynne Purl Gurl AICMFEuro. You think PG would write "f*ck"? SignatureDavid ===== >> >> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good >> >> friends ..." mean? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I think that true lovers of English, which I am, play with the darling >and even like to f*ck around with it. True lovers of English eschew asterisks. >When I am not focused on the >mundane, the love of English surges through my amygdala to find >expresstion on the tongue of my mind. Eeuuw! Is that like gross or what? SignatureBrad Germolene > >> >> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good > >> >> friends ..." mean? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > True lovers of English eschew asterisks. I would go to the ends of the earth for the English language or any language for which I had a facility. > >When I am not focused on the > >mundane, the love of English surges through my amygdala to find > >expresstion on the tongue of my mind. > > Eeuuw! Is that like gross or what? KraNial filth? >>>> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good >>>> friends ..." mean? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > mundane, the love of English surges through my amygdala to find > expresstion on the tongue of my mind. English isn't your native language, is it. We all play with English, but we do try to look literate. > >>>> Yeah, but what in the world does "... in a relationship of good > >>>> friends ..." mean? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > English isn't your native language, is it. We all play with English, but > we do try to look literate. "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much thought into your writing and not enough heart." Terry Brooks "Holly" <noon_union@yahoo.com> wrote [...] > "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much > thought into your writing and not enough heart." Terry Brooks To the tone deaf, any random collection of sounds might as well be called music as not. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > "Holly" <noon_union@yahoo.com> wrote > [...] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > To the tone deaf, any random collection of sounds might as well be > called music as not. I think your analogy does not work here. I know many of those unfortunate folks with such issues and music is cacaphony to them. > -- > Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor > Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. > Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com > "Impatience is the mother of misery." Patience could be a euphonism for apathy. >> [...] >>> "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think your analogy does not work here. I know many of those > unfortunate folks with such issues and music is cacaphony to them. No caca there -- it's cacophony. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > >> [...] > >>> "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No caca there -- it's cacophony. Thank you Skitt. Please be vigilant to any farture mistakes in spelling I may myke. > -- > Skitt (in Hayward, California) > http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>>> [...] >>>>> "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thank you Skitt. Please be vigilant to any farture mistakes in > spelling I may myke. Ah, I knew you would appreciate it, loving the English language as you do. Making intentional spelling mistakes is a very clever way to hide shortcomings in that area -- not! Several short-term visitors to this forum have done that in the past. Oh, I'm quite sure that your omission of a comma before "Skitt" was purely unintentional. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > >>>> [...] > >>>>> "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > have done that in the past. Oh, I'm quite sure that your omission of a > comma before "Skitt" was purely unintentional. I simple do not pay that close attention to spelling or commas. On Usenet, I write quickly and in most cases without review. That you are so perfect is an inspiration. I, on the other hand, am flawed. I can live with it. If I need to send something out to publish I will spell check it or rely on an editor. Usenet is not that important. I do not make money from my posts. That's the pleasure. If you were lighten up you might be fun to post to. > I simple do not pay that close attention to spelling or commas. On > Usenet, I write quickly and in most cases without review. Yabbut, this is a somewhat specialized group, not the usual chit-chat forum. We do talk about food and sheep, though. And personal anecdotes. And memories by those who still remember them. > That you are so perfect is an inspiration. Me? Perfect? Hardly. I give it the old college try, but you know how that goes. My main education was in Engineering, not English. > I, on the other hand, am flawed. I can live with it. Oh, so can I. Any comments on your English will be withheld forthwith, I promise. > If I need to send something out to publish I will spell > check it or rely on an editor. Usenet is not that important. Again, that depends on the purpose or intent of the newsgroup. Generally, in AUE, many posters try to put their best foot forward. New posters can find that some of their initial posts may attract a few unwelcome corrections, but after a little while, depending on the reaction to those corrections, things proceed quite calmly. > I do not make money from my posts. That's the pleasure. No one here does. Not from their posts. > If you were lighten up you might be fun to post to. Oh, I have my lighter days. Other than that, posts here are usually to the group, not to someone. Anyone can jump in at any time. Cheers! SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ Holly filted: >I simple do not pay that close attention to spelling or commas. On >Usenet, I write quickly and in most cases without review. That you are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >make money from my posts. That's the pleasure. If you were lighten up >you might be fun to post to. Usenet not important?...I'm crushed....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Holly filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Usenet not important?...I'm crushed....r Oh quit it. You're stirred. > -- > "Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when > he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >>Holly filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Oh quit it. You're stirred. Not RH! I'm shaken. --Jeff SignatureWhenever morality is based on theology, whenever right is made dependent on divine authority, the most immoral, unjust, infamous things can be justified and established. --Ludwig Feuerbach > >>Holly filted: > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Not RH! I'm shaken. Chill ... I'm be'an straight up. >>> [...] >>>> "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No caca there -- it's cacophony. Redd anything by Terry Brooks? [...] > "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much thought > into your writing and not enough heart." Terry Brooks Confucius he say, inverted comma never inverted nonsense to sense. SignatureMike. > [...] > > "If you do not hear music in your words, you have put too much thought > > into your writing and not enough heart." Terry Brooks > > Confucius he say, inverted comma never inverted nonsense to sense. Oh Mike you are so clever. <giggle> > > If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a > > relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you don't [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (Others in the group may point out that you really shouldn't start a > sentence with the word "but".) We would probably say something like, "But do you think I will be able to make close friends there?" Those who believe one should not begin a sentence with "But" should not do so. Those who understand when it is acceptable can, may, and sometimes do do so. SignatureMike. > Richie wrote: >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > (Others in the group may point out that you really shouldn't > start a sentence with the word "but".) Not many of us believe that myth. Especially when the sentence is in a letter and is not the first sentence of a paragraph. The omitted context appears to include positive things about being in a different place ("there"). That certainly provides many opportunities for a writer to start a sentence with "but" or "and". I might. But I know you wouldn't. And you'd be wrong to. Because you're too uptight about the small stuff in life. So you wouldn't want to stir up your unwelcome (to you) emotional stewpot. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a > relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you don't > put a question mark after this. > > "But do you think I will find myself in a relationship of good friends > with anybody there." I suppose you would here. More important than any missing question mark is the fact that the sentence as a whole is quite unnatural to a native English speaker (this one anyway). "Relationship of good friends" is not idiomatic, and "But do I think..." is a rhetorical question with a strong literary or poetic feel - which *may* be what you intend, or may not. More natural would be: "I wonder if I will make/find any good friends there". With "I wonder" the question mark is debatable. Some people do use it, but to others it can look odd. >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a >> relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > there". With "I wonder" the question mark is debatable. Some people > do use it, but to others it can look odd. With an "I wonder if" it is a statement, not a question, and there should be no question mark after it. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in a > >> relationship of good friends with anybody there." I suppose you [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > With an "I wonder if" it is a statement, not a question, and there should be > no question mark after it. I think that technically you are absolutely right, but in a personal letter "I wonder if I will make any good friends there?" would not necessarily cause me any problems. In fact, in the right context I quite prefer the question mark. It feels more intimate, as if it's engaging the recipient in the writer's wondering and inviting a response. > > With an "I wonder if" it is a statement, not a question, and there should be > > no question mark after it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > engaging the recipient in the writer's wondering and inviting a > response. It makes me want to answer the question: "Yes, you wonder." SignatureStefano > It feels more intimate, as if it's engaging the recipient in the > writer's wondering and inviting a response. To invite a response, ask a proper question. SignatureStefano >> >> If I say in a letter, "But do I think I will find myself in >> >> a relationship of good friends with anybody there." I [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > more intimate, as if it's engaging the recipient in the writer's > wondering and inviting a response. This last sentence is beautiful. I love rationalizations for pisspoor grammar and usage. It's the fuzzy-wuzzy response to people illiterates consider pedants for expecting proper language when language is used for a reason. That kind of crappy writing doesn't fell "intimate" to me, only illiterate. If I want to engage the recipient in my wonderings and invite responses, I ask questions instead of providing musings, which are always at a distance from the reader/listener. It's almost as good as OJ Simpson's title for his new book: "If I Did It", with the "if" in one color and the "I Did It" all in red. It's a trick that wants the reader to believe he's both confessing and merely being hypothetical, but whoever dreamed up the title woke up before the dream ended. It has to be "If I had done it" to be hypothetical and grammatical. "If I did it" implies that he doesn't remember, but it's not a hypothetical, just a disclaimer of another shade of horse. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." Others have answered your questions, but I would like to mention the following: There are differences between American English and British English (and possibly other Englishes) with regard to question marks. In the US, "I wonder" sentences would not call for a question mark -- except in dialogue, to indicate a questioning "rise" at the end of a sentence. (And a letter would not be usually be considered "dialogue.") SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. > There are differences between American English and British English (and > possibly other Englishes) with regard to question marks. In the US, "I > wonder" sentences would not call for a question mark -- except in > dialogue, to indicate a questioning "rise" at the end of a sentence. > > (And a letter would not be usually be considered "dialogue.") I think this is not a Pondian difference. The question mark is used to punctuate a sentence that has an interrogative grammatical structure, regardless of whether it functions as a question or not. Therefore 'How do you do?' (function: hello), 'Can you switch it off?' (function: request). And it is used to signal a rising intonation (and also that something functions as a question): eg 'You called?'. As Maria indicates this can be found in dialogues, but I contend that it can be used elsewhere, eg advertisements that say 'Tired? Try XXX'. Cheers, Peter > Maria wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > And it is used to signal a rising intonation (and also that > something functions as a question): eg 'You called?'. This is a yes-no question with the "?" and a straight declarative statement without it. There's no mystery about that. > As Maria > indicates this can be found in dialogues, but I contend that it > can be used elsewhere, eg advertisements that say 'Tired? Try > XXX'. Of course, it can be used after "Tired" in such an advert: it's an ellipsis of "Are you tired?" SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > This is a yes-no question with the "?" and a straight declarative > statement without it. There's no mystery about that. Absolutely. Well known to all English speakers. And equally, 'I thought you might want to come in early tomorrow' and 'I wonder if you can come in early tomorrow' would be declarative sentences. If you wanted to emphasise that a response was required, and that these were requests (as opposed to merely my thinking or wondering), you'd put in a question mark. Imagine it as an email message or a note to, say, your cleaning lady. Or are you saying that Americans would never use these constructions in this context? > Of course, it can be used after "Tired" in such an advert: it's an > ellipsis of "Are you tired?" It could equally be a truncated version of 'You're tired?' Cheers, Peter Posting from Singapore >> This is a yes-no question with the "?" and a straight declarative >> statement without it. There's no mystery about that. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > say, your cleaning lady. Or are you saying that Americans would never > use these constructions in this context? I would say we wouldn't. Whether in writing or in speech, we'd probably change the wording a bit: "I wonder... can you come in early tomorrow?" Or simply, "Can you come in early tomorrow?" (There might be a "please" or an "I'd really appreciate it" added in somewhere.) What it boils down to is this: "I wonder" does not generally begin a question here unless there's a definite pause after those two words; "I wonder" is seen as a declaration. >> Of course, it can be used after "Tired" in such an advert: it's an >> ellipsis of "Are you tired?" >> > It could equally be a truncated version of 'You're tired?' Agreed, but "you're tired?" is a shortened version of "are you tired?" I would think. SignatureMaria There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. > >> This is a yes-no question with the "?" and a straight declarative > >> statement without it. There's no mystery about that. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Agreed, but "you're tired?" is a shortened version of "are you tired?" I > would think. WARNING -- All three of you seem to be in agreement. Try not to screw it up. FWIW, I agree as well. SignatureBob Lieblich Is four people in agreement an AUE record? > WARNING -- All three of you seem to be in agreement. Try not to screw > it up. > > FWIW, I agree as well. So four of us agree? What a good sign! All things may be possible now. (I'm hoping for a win in Las Vegas next week, myself.) Happy Turkey Day, Maria SignatureThere's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >> There are differences between American English and British English >> (and possibly other Englishes) with regard to question marks. In the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 'How do you do?' (function: hello), 'Can you switch it off?' > (function: request). I'm not sure your examples fall into the same category as the "I wonder" type of sentences I was referring to. In the US, "I wonder how he's doing" would be written as a statement -- and would probably spoken as one, as well -- with no "rising intonation" at the end. The exception, allowing a question mark, would be in dialogue where the writer wants to indicate that there *was* a rise -- but having such a rise in an "I wonder" sentence would be rare among the Americans I know. > And it is used to signal a rising intonation (and also that something > functions as a question): eg 'You called?'. As Maria indicates this > can be found in dialogues, but I contend that it can be used > elsewhere, eg advertisements that say 'Tired? Try XXX'. I agree with the reply from "dontbother" on that point. SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. |
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