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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006When the ladder crumbled behind them ...
Hello: I wonder if "the ladder crumbled behind them" is a known idiom. Also, what's the exact meaning of "to come across?" in the 2nd part here? It's definitely not the figurative meaning. Is it "to come over to us over there?" This is BrE. --------- Nurtured in the postwar settlement with the state's own milk and juice, and then sustained by their parents' tentative, innocent prosperity, to come of age in full employment, new universities, bright paperback books, the Augustan age of rock and roll, affordable ideals. When the ladder crumbled behind them, when the state withdrew her tit and became a scold, they were already safe, they consolidated and settled down to forming this or that--taste, opinion, fortunes. ..... [They are all outdoors at a funeral, in small groups] "Mr. Linley. I'm sorry to intrude on your thoughts," the man said, drawing his hand away. "I was wondering if you'd have time to come across and talk to the foreign secretary. He's keen to meet you." Ian McEwan, Amsterdam, p. 14 http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/1298/mcewan/excerpt.html --------- Thank you. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > I wonder if > "the ladder crumbled behind them" > is a known idiom. Not exactly a known idiom but easy to understand in context. 'The ladder' is what the post-war generation (e.g. me) used to 'climb out' of our working class backgrounds and low expectations. Ladders do not crumble, this seems really lazy. What happened is that our generation pulled the ladder up behind us when we voted for Thatcher in our millions (and I wasn't one of them!). The idea remains. One generation scrambles up the ladder, it is not there for the next because that generation is now the 'establishment'. Hope this helps. There doesn't seem to be a verb or object in that first sentence, just a very long subject! > Also, what's the exact meaning of "to come across?" in the 2nd part > here? It's definitely not the figurative meaning. Is it "to come over to > us over there?" This is BrE. Yes, exactly, probably come across the cemetery/graveyard (from context. > --------- > What happened is that our generation > pulled the ladder up behind us when we voted for Thatcher in our > millions (and I wasn't one of them!). The idea remains. One generation > scrambles up the ladder, it is not there for the next because that > generation is now the 'establishment'. OK, I understand the idea of "pulling up the ladder":-) Thank you. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > I wonder if > "the ladder crumbled behind them" > is a known idiom. No: this is not a standard phrase. McEwan obviously uses it as a metaphor but it seems a poor one. When a ladder fails, it almost never "crumbles." McEwan is not admired for his verbal style. > Also, what's the exact meaning of "to come across?" in the 2nd part > here? It's definitely not the figurative meaning. Is it "to come over to > us over there?" This is BrE. In the passage quoted, this probably has a strictly literal meaning. BrE uses "come across" to express travel over a (locally) significant distance, as when the visitor has to move from one building to another, or even from one corridor to a distant one in the same building. The Prime Minister (in 10 Downing Street) might ask the minister who lives at 11 Downing Street (Chancellor or Foreign Sec- retary, I forget which) to come across for a private talk tomorrow at teatime.  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > Nurtured in the postwar settlement with the state's own milk and > juice, and then sustained by their parents' tentative, innocent [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thank you. > Marius Hancu >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >a ladder fails, it almost never "crumbles." McEwan is >not admired for his verbal style. It's not a standard phrase, but I think it's more apposite than you give it credit for. The standard is "pulling up the ladder behind them", but this isn't what the generation in question (mine, dammit) has done. The ladder up which many of us lightly gambolled has been eroded by successive governments (significantly and culpably the current one) so that it now effectively no longer exists. But this has been an incremental effect (very aptly "crumbled") and I suspect it's been opposed by most of the generation who benefited from the ladder umpty years ago. "Crumbling" can be visualised as something that happens gradually, so that the disintegration is only obvious once it's too late. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > >> Hello: > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that happens gradually, so that the disintegration is only obvious > once it's too late. Perhaps like one of those ladders inside a manhole, that's become rusted and starting to indeed crumble. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that happens gradually, so that the disintegration is only obvious > once it's too late. To me, "crumbled" suggests a natural process, rather than a deliberate human act. Perhaps rotting or decaying from neglect, rather than being deliberately withdrawn? >>>> Hello: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >act. Perhaps rotting or decaying from neglect, rather than being >deliberately withdrawn? I find it quite an effective metaphor, evoking the classic shots in adventure films where as the hero scrambles up out of some hole the rungs of the ladder disintegrate beneath his feet. He might get out, but no-one will be able to follow him. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > It's not a standard phrase, but I think it's more apposite than you > give it credit for. The standard is "pulling up the ladder behind > them", but this isn't what the generation in question (mine, dammit) > has done. I disagree our generation (me excluded, I'm proud to say) voted for Thatcher's dismantling of the welfare state in our millions. |
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