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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007Alma Mater = University Anthem?
Hello, Everyone: Most people know that the Latin term, alma mater, as used in English means a college or university one graduated from. But it is debated at the discussion page of Tsinghua University of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tsinghua_University) whether the term can be used to mean a "university anthem". Well, the American Heritage Dictionary does give a second definition of the term as "the anthem of an institution of higher learning". The questions: Is the use of this second definition common? Is this definition limited to American English? Under what context can it be used without confusion? Thank you for reading and replying. --Roland qquito <qquito@hotmail.com> had it: > Hello, Everyone: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > definition limited to American English? Under what context can it be > used without confusion? The first meaning (one's former university) is not commonly used in British English, although it's recognised. I've never heard the second meaning; if my own university (Manchester) had a song, I never heard it. Oxbridge colleges might have songs, but do any UK universities?  SignatureDavid ===== the Omrud filted: >qquito <qquito@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >never heard it. Oxbridge colleges might have songs, but do any UK >universities? Is *that* what Chuck Berry was talking about in the introduction to "My Ding-A-Ling"?...the part (recorded in front of a British audience, as it happens) where he announces "we got to do our alma mater; we *must* do our alma mater"...I'd never been able to make sense of that before....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > The first meaning (one's former university) is not commonly used in > British English, although it's recognised. I've never heard the > second meaning; if my own university (Manchester) had a song, I > never heard it. Oxbridge colleges might have songs, but do any UK > universities? How many UK state schools have them? I went to a state grammar school in the 1960s, as did my wife, but I was amazed to learn that her school had a school song; we'd have scoffed at such a ludicrous idea. I was always bemused by the US attitude to schools (the term including universities and colleges, which is a separate topic); as a kid I could not understand how a relatively cool group like the Beach Boys could - with apparently straight faces - record a song called "Be True To Your School". No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). Mike M > No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude > other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). Wouldn't that be "sucks to your school"? SignatureSalvatore Volatile >> No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude >> other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). > > Wouldn't that be "sucks to your school"? Nay, nay, and thrice nay. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>The first meaning (one's former university) is not commonly used in >>British English, although it's recognised. I've never heard the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > School". No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude > other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). My UK state school may have had a song, but I don't remember what it was. I don't think we were required to sing it. We did, however, have a school hymn: "Love Divine All Loves Excelling", sung to the tune "Blaenwern". That I remember, because we were made to sing it often, and because it was so difficult to sing. Fran >> never heard it. Oxbridge colleges might have songs, but do any UK >> universities? I don't believe any Oxbridge College does; if they do, they keep exceedingly quiet about it. >How many UK state schools have them? I went to a state grammar school >in the 1960s, as did my wife, but I was amazed to learn that her school >had a school song; we'd have scoffed at such a ludicrous idea. So would we (single-sex girls' school in the sixties). Though when our headmistress (whom everybody liked) got a DBE there was a brief move to adopt "There is nothing like a dame". Katy >> How many UK state schools have them? I went to a state grammar school >> in the 1960s, as did my wife, but I was amazed to learn that her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > move > to adopt "There is nothing like a dame". I think the closest we got (single-sex girls' school in the 70s-80s) was Adeste Fidelis at Christmas. Oh, and the sevenfold amen on special occasions. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> The first meaning (one's former university) is not commonly used in >> British English, although it's recognised. I've never heard the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in the 1960s, as did my wife, but I was amazed to learn that her school > had a school song; we'd have scoffed at such a ludicrous idea. The idea did seem to catch on in Australia. I can still recall the school song of my (state) High School: Comes there now a mighty cheering From the school and for the school Back from bush and back from clearing Echoing by the river cool: Oh, no John, no John, no John, no. I might be misremembering that last bit. Thinking back on it, I see that we learnt quite a few songs to be sung by the whole class or even the whole school as a group. Strangely enough, the one that sticks in my mind is "Forty years on". Although by now it's been more than 40 years on, I can still look back and see us singing it. > I was always bemused by the US attitude to schools (the term including > universities and colleges, which is a separate topic); as a kid I could > not understand how a relatively cool group like the Beach Boys could - > with apparently straight faces - record a song called "Be True To Your > School". No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude > other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). All in all, it's just a- Nother brick in the wall. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > Thinking back on it, I see that we learnt quite a few songs to be sung > by the whole class or even the whole school as a group. Strangely > enough, the one that sticks in my mind is "Forty years on". Although by > now it's been more than 40 years on, I can still look back and see us > singing it. There's only one song I remember being sung by the whole class, but I think I remember it well enough after 70-plus years to recite it in full: Home means Nevada, home means the hills; Home means the sage and the pine. Out by the Truckee's silvery rills, Out where the sun always shines, There is a land that I love the best, Fairer than all I can see. Right in the heart of the golden west, Home means Nevada to me. Note that "west" was sung with two notes, musically sliding downward. I wonder now how appropriate it was for kids in Nevada to sing words that implied they were somewhere else, as shown by the "out where"s. [...] > Home means Nevada, home means the hills; > Home means the sage and the pine. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Right in the heart of the golden west, > Home means Nevada to me. [...] > I wonder now how appropriate it was for kids in Nevada to > sing words that implied they were somewhere else, as shown > by the "out where"s. Instead of "the 'out where's", make that "the 'out where' and the '"out by'". > There's only one song I remember being sung by the whole > class, but I think I remember it well enough after 70-plus [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > sing words that implied they were somewhere else, as shown > by the "out where"s. I don't think it necessarily implies the singer is elsewhere. It seems OK to me to say "I live out where..." - ie just away from towns, out in the great outdoors. SignatureRob Bannister > I wonder now how appropriate it was for kids in Nevada to > sing words that implied they were somewhere else, as shown > by the "out where"s. At my high school in Massachusetts, we sang about the possibility of our feet, in ancient times, having walked upon England's mumble green. Why? I do not know. We only sang it once per class, though, when we were graduating. SignatureSML >> I wonder now how appropriate it was for kids in Nevada to sing >> words that implied they were somewhere else, as shown by the "out [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > green. Why? I do not know. We only sang it once per class, though, > when we were graduating. Acksherly, it was someone else's feet. Interesting song if you listen to the words. It's all about that dark satanic Mills & Boon. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. [...] > I was always bemused by the US attitude to schools (the term including > universities and colleges, which is a separate topic); as a kid I could > not understand how a relatively cool group like the Beach Boys could - > with apparently straight faces - record a song called "Be True To Your > School". No self-respecting British kid would have adopted an attitude > other than "skool sucks" (whether we actually meant it or not). In the US, that is actually a common attitude *except* at sports events. The attitude tends to shift as one becomes old enough to wax nostallgic (especially if you get to sing "bah bah bah", it seems). Graduation Day is often a brief fit of nostalgia, followed "by, "Hey, I'm finally outta here -- now for someplace cool!" /dps In our last episode, <1167127037.947109.45010@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented qquito broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Hello, Everyone: > Most people know that the Latin term, alma mater, as used in English > means a college or university one graduated from. But it is debated at > the discussion page of Tsinghua University of Wikipedia > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tsinghua_University) whether the > term can be used to mean a "university anthem". Yes. > Well, the American Heritage Dictionary does give a second definition of > the term as "the anthem of an institution of higher learning". > The questions: Is the use of this second definition common? Is this > definition limited to American English? Under what context can it be > used without confusion? Obviously when the context suggest singing or playing music, the sense of "school song" is meant. "Do you remember our alma mater?" almost certainly means the song, because no one is likely to forget his school, but "I was remembering/thinking of my alma mater" probably means the institution itself. > Thank you for reading and replying. > --Roland SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner> Give me chastity and continence, but not just now. -- St. Augustine > Most people know that the Latin term, alma mater, as used in English > means a college or university one graduated from. But it is debated at [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > definition limited to American English? Under what context can it be > used without confusion? Case 2 (alma mater = song) should perhaps not be used. It would be recognized only by Americans (and only by a subset of Americans.) Case 2 appears to involve back-formation. Case 1 (alma mater = university) was borrowed from Catholic church Latin (the mediaeval hymn to the Blessed Virgin Mary, "Alma mater redemptoris"). This sort of borrowing was normal in the USA approx. 1900. Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern or "ivy league" universities, largely unknown in Britain except as a foreign usage. Thus there is a remote link between the borrowed phrase alma mater and its original use, direct praise of a venerated person or institution. The AHD obviously measures the link as strong enough to allow case 2, alma mater = anthem. But few if any non-Americans would recognise this special sense as nonidentical with case 1. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus > igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern > or "ivy league" universities, largely unknown in Britain except as a > foreign usage. Unknown in *England*, perhaps, but when I was in Scotland ca. 1959, all the students at St Andrews knew it. It was the regular conclusion to any party at which singing took place. I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: The power to concentrate is the power to crush. :|| >> Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >> igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. Back in the '50s, Mario Lanza sang, but Edmund Purdom starred in "The Student Prince". One of the songs sung by the Heidelberg students was "Gaudeamus igitur". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047537/ , though imdb doesn't seem to include that song as important in the film. The students are marching off, either before or after "The Drinking Song", and perhaps before "Golden Days". It seems a number of versions of the story were done, after Sigmund Rhomberg and Dorothy Donelly wrote the operetta by the same name in 1924. >> Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >> igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. It's known to English conservatory students and university music students, at any rate (though not necessarily the words), as it provides the "big finish" of Brahms's Academic Festival Overture. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > >> Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus > >> igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > at any rate (though not necessarily the words), as it provides the "big > finish" of Brahms's Academic Festival Overture. And to English schoolchildren (amongst others) who have performed from the Songs of Yale. When Pa, When Pa, When Pa was a little boy like me, He used to go in swimmin' ... SignatureDavid ===== > > Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus > > igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. > -- This agrees with my experience. At university in England I never came across any of these songs. However, my sister was at St Andrews (also ca. 1959), and she told me about Gaudeamus igitur etc. athel >> > Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >> > igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >across any of these songs. However, my sister was at St Andrews (also >ca. 1959), and she told me about Gaudeamus igitur etc. I rather think we sang it in my (English) school in the 1950s. If it wasn't there, I can't think where. I've never been to school or university in Scotland. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>> Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >>>> igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > wasn't there, I can't think where. I've never been to school or > university in Scotland. It was one of our school songs, always sung at speech day. The other was "Forty Years On". SignatureJohn "forgetfully wondering" Dean Oxford >>> Unknown in *England*, perhaps, but when I was in Scotland ca. 1959, >>> all the students at St Andrews knew it. It was the regular conclusion >>> to any party at which singing took place. >>This agrees with my experience. At university in England I never came >>across any of these songs. However, my sister was at St Andrews (also >>ca. 1959), and she told me about Gaudeamus igitur etc. My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? But I knew "Gaudeamus igitur" long before she went there; I think it was part of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays with a group mainly of English schoolboys. (Along with "You'll never go to heaven", the song about woad, "The quartermasters' store", "Oh Sir Jasper" and various others of more or less impropriety). Sorry, Laura. Katy > I think it was part > of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays > with a group mainly of English schoolboys. Help with some cross-pondial translation, please? Once I figured out that you weren't singing to the football coaches for some reason, I realized that "coach" is probably what we in the U.S. would refer to as a "bus" -- but then the "walking holidays" part of that sentence made me not so sure. Did you take a bus to somewhere far away where you would then go on a walking holiday? (And what *is* a "walking holiday", anyway? Does it mean what we would call "going hiking"?) nancy g., feeling very separated by a common tongue >> I think it was part >> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >would then go on a walking holiday? (And what *is* a "walking holiday", >anyway? Does it mean what we would call "going hiking"?) A coach is more or less what you think of as a bus, but it's not quite the same as a UK bus. Coaches are bookable by groups, and go to whatever place the person booking the coach wants it to go. Buses, on the other hand, operate on specific routes, run to some kind of timetable, and have designated stops where people get on and off. There's some overlap in these terms, and long-distance buses may be called coaches -- or the bus company may call itself the Acme Coach Company, to sound more upmarket, but it will still be called "the bus" by the people travelling. If you Google for "walking holidays" you'l get five million or so hits, only a milion of which claim to be UK sites. Personally I think of walking as slightly less demanding than hiking, but it's a pretty narrow distinction which may not be shared by my fellow Brits. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> I think it was part >> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >would then go on a walking holiday? (And what *is* a "walking holiday", >anyway? Does it mean what we would call "going hiking"?) From COED: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/coach_1?view=uk coach1 * noun 1 chiefly Brit. a comfortably equipped single-decker bus used for longer journeys. 2 a railway carriage. 3 a closed horse-drawn carriage. * verb travel or convey by coach. - ORIGIN French coche, from Hungarian kocsi szekér ‘wagon from Kocs’, a town in Hungary. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/coach_2?view=uk coach2 * noun 1 an instructor or trainer in sport. 2 a tutor who gives private or specialized teaching. * verb train or teach as a coach. - ORIGIN a figurative extension of COACH1. Both those origins are a surprise to me. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/bus?view=uk bus * noun (pl. buses; US also busses) 1 a large motor vehicle carrying customers along a fixed route. 2 Computing ... * verb (buses or busses, bused or bussed, busing or bussing) 1 transport or travel in a bus. 2 N. Amer. clear (dirty crockery) in a restaurant or cafeteria. — ORIGIN shortening of OMNIBUS. As Katy Jennison said the usages of "bus" and "coach" overlap. A long distance scheduled service on a fixed route will use "coaches". In BrE the passenger vehicles used by (the North American) Greyhound Lines, Inc. would be called "coaches" rather than "buses". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> I think it was part >> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > realized that "coach" is probably what we in the U.S. would refer to as > a "bus" More specifically (if I understand the lingo; native speakers please correct me), the sort of bus used in the US by operators such as Greyhound for inter-city travel: with a single door, narrow aisle, well-upholsetered seats with reclining backs, all facing front, and large compartments beneath for carrying luggage. Well, not _quite_ the same sort: the door is on the wrong side. As budget-minded travel(l)ers in the UK will know, they depart to all points from Victoria Coach Station in London, conveniently located a three-block schlep from Victoria Station. You will tend to confuse the locals if you refer to a departure from there as traveling "by bus". A local city bus is a bus on both sides of the pond, except for the notional one that carries the average Briton back and forth to or within (I never was clear on that) Clapham, which is styled an omnibus. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > A local city bus is a bus on both sides of the pond, except for the notional > one that carries the average Briton back and forth to or within (I never > was clear on that) Clapham, which is styled an omnibus. The name of the transport is "the Clapham omnibus", since it travels from Westminster to Clapham and from Clapham to Westminster. People in London, and especially central London, and more especially Westminster, assume that they are the centre of the Universe and have no need to point out that they are at the start or end of a route. SignatureDavid ===== > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Westminster, assume that they are the centre of the Universe and have > no need to point out that they are at the start or end of a route. Quite! I thank you for the explanation. Does one then notionally hop off the bus at Clapham, then? Say to catch a train at Clapham Junction or something? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Does one then notionally hop off the bus at Clapham, then? Say to catch a > train at Clapham Junction or something? One hops off the bus in Clapham because that's where one lives in the 19th Century - in the suburbs. One is not a factory worker or farm labourer - one is a lower-middle-class "reasonable" man, living in the suburbs and commuting to work in the city, or the City. A bank clerk, perhaps, with no expectation of advancement. On the sound judgement of such reasonable people is part of English law predicated. SignatureDavid ===== > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the suburbs and commuting to work in the city, or the City. A bank > clerk, perhaps, with no expectation of advancement. Got it! > On the sound judgement of such reasonable people is part of English > law predicated. You neglected to cue the patriotic music. Undecided between "God Save the Queen" and "Jerusalem", perhaps? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > You neglected to cue the patriotic music. Undecided between "God Save the > Queen" and "Jerusalem", perhaps? Land of Hope and Glory. SignatureRob Bannister >> You neglected to cue the patriotic music. Undecided between "God Save >> the Queen" and "Jerusalem", perhaps? > > Land of Hope and Glory. But of course. How very like my rude, untutored American self to overlook the obvious. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > On the sound judgement of such reasonable people is part of English > > law predicated. > > You neglected to cue the patriotic music. Undecided between "God Save the > Queen" and "Jerusalem", perhaps? Nah, no need for own-trumpet blowing. We're brought up to know that the English, the English, the English are best, but also that it's bad form to mention this to others who aren't so fortunate. SignatureDavid ===== > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nah, no need for own-trumpet blowing. One has people to do that sort of thing for one, I suppose. They can readily be hired for the day if one does not have them on one's staff. > We're brought up to know that > the English, the English, the English are best, but also that it's > bad form to mention this to others who aren't so fortunate. Wouldn't give 0.83333p for all of the rest, eh wot? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Wouldn't give 0.83333p for all of the rest, eh wot? Wot. SignatureDavid ===== >Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Wot. Converting p to d gives 2d. Any old iron, any old iron, Any, any, any old iron? You look neat, talk about a treat, You look dapper from your napper to your feet, Dressed in style, brand new tile, With your father's old green tie on; But I wouldn't give you tuppence, For your old watch chain, Old iron, Old iron. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > >Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Converting p to d gives 2d. Ah, perhaps I was unintentionally unclear. By my statement of "Wot.", I was agreeing with Roland's question of "Wot?". Although it's not a reference to "Any Old Iron", but to Flanders & Swann's "The English". SignatureDavid ===== >Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Although it's not a reference to "Any Old Iron", but to Flanders & >Swann's "The English". Aha! Wit. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > >Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Aha! Wit. Word. SignatureDavid ===== > Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the English, the English, the English are best, but also that it's > bad form to mention this to others who aren't so fortunate. Which is why we rarely discuss the Ashes here. SignatureRob Bannister On 01 Jan 2007, Robert Bannister wrote >> Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > Which is why we rarely discuss the Ashes here. It's in the same song, actually, about the non-English: "And they practice beforehand, which ruins the fun". SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >> I think it was part >> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays >> with a group mainly of English schoolboys. > >Help with some cross-pondial translation, please? Once I figured out You got it all, I think. The coach is a bus. We stayed in a glorified youth hostel (do I have to translate that?) belonging to an organisation called the Holiday Fellowship, and each morning a bus arrived to take us to the place from which we were to start walking - usually climbing in fact (this was in Wales and the Lake District; big mountains by UK standards though nothing much by world standards). At the end of the day we'd be picked up again by the bus to go back to the hostel for an evening spent in Dubbining our boots (oh dear...), washing our socks, and lots of Scottish dancing. Oh, and some food, which was sustaining but awful, as I remember. The bus journey might easily be half an hour or more, and usually we sang. It was an education for a 13-year-old from an all-girls school. Katy >>> I think it was part >>>of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The bus journey might easily be half an hour or more, and usually we sang. > It was an education for a 13-year-old from an all-girls school. What a coincidence! Only yesterday my mother and I were reminiscing about some of the less successful family holidays we experienced in my youth and we agreed that the one spent with the Holiday Fellowship was certainly the worst for food. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>> I think it was part >>>>of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >youth and we agreed that the one spent with the Holiday Fellowship was >certainly the worst for food. HF has changed. We used to go as a family to HF and the meals were good. A big English breakfast, lots of choice for the packed lunches, and a well-cooked three course dinner to fuel you for the next day's walking. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> I think it was part >> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >would then go on a walking holiday? (And what *is* a "walking holiday", >anyway? Does it mean what we would call "going hiking"?) I don't know if it's pondial, perhaps it's latitudinal. It seems to me that people in Vancouver insist on calling buses "coaches". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >>> I think it was part >>> of the routine repertoire for singing on coaches when I went on walking holidays [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I don't know if it's pondial, perhaps it's latitudinal. It seems to me that >people in Vancouver insist on calling buses "coaches". Perhaps that's true among some segments of the population, aligned on ethnic boundaries. There are large Chinese, East Indian, British populations in the area. It is not, however, common among native Vancouverites, unless they are speaking of long distance (touring) vehicles. City buses are always called buses. >The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >speaking of long distance (touring) vehicles. City buses are always >called buses. Well then it seems that the question in the message I was responding to is answered. It's not pondial, because if you are correct, Vancouverites, like Brits, use "coaches" for long distance buses, and not just for football coaches. Or is Vancouver too far from the pond in question to count? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >>The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Or is Vancouver too far from the pond in question to count? It's far in some ways, and not so far in others. I may have given you the wrong impression. "Bus" would be the norm, for long distance travel, as in "We took the bus to Toronto.", or "I'll be going by bus." If we are speaking about the vehicle itself, it is a tossup as to whether it will be called a bus or a coach, as in: "I'm taking the bus to Chilliwack." (perhaps 75 miles) "Is that a coach?" "Yes." "What about the one that goes to Pitt Meadows?" "That's a coach." Someone else pointed out that Victoria is far more British than the rest of the province, and it is quite possible that buses are commonly called coaches. > Victoria is far more British than the rest of the province Tronly. SignatureSalvatore Volatile >The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >rest of the province, and it is quite possible that buses are commonly >called coaches. Since this message took over a week to arrive, I haven't snipped in case you've forgotten what you said. I've since had confirmation from a "coach" driver in Vancouver. bus is used for diseasels coach is used for trolley buses. Seeing that he drives the things, I suppose he's an authority on Vancouver usage. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > I've since had confirmation from a "coach" driver in Vancouver. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Seeing that he drives the things, I suppose he's an authority on Vancouver > usage. Maybe he's an authority on bus driver usage. In one of your other examples, you asserted that in New York a "bus" can mean an ambulance. Possibly a cop or ambulance driver would tell you this, but no ordinary New York speaker ever calls an ambulance "a bus". "Coach" *might* be ordinary VcvrE for "bus"; I don't know. SignatureSalvatore Volatile The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >>The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >Seeing that he drives the things, I suppose he's an authority on Vancouver >usage. I would say that he's an authority on bus driver jargon. A trolley bus is a city bus, and as such, will be called a "bus" by virtually all folks who are not working for BCTransit. I just realized that I misspoke in the example... >>"I'm taking the bus to Chilliwack." (perhaps 75 miles) >>"Is that a coach?" >>"Yes." >>"What about the one that goes to Pitt Meadows?" >>"That's a coach." It should have been: "I'm taking the bus to Chilliwack." (perhaps 75 miles) "Is that a coach?" "Yes." "What about the one that goes to Pitt Meadows?" "That's a bus." Pitt Meadows is served by the urban bus system covering what is known as the Greater Vancouver Area. Chilliwack is not. The buses that go to Chilliwack are more like the "highway coaches", with more comfortable seats, etc. >I don't know if it's pondial, perhaps it's latitudinal. It seems to me that > people in Vancouver insist on calling buses "coaches". Not Vancouver, but nearby Victoria, is said to put the "British" in "British Columbia".... Vancouver, for its part, is sometimes known as "the Canadian Riviera"....r >>>>Unknown in *England*, perhaps, but when I was in Scotland ca. 1959, >>>>all the students at St Andrews knew it. It was the regular conclusion [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > heaven", the song about woad, "The quartermasters' store", "Oh Sir Jasper" and > various others of more or less impropriety). Sorry, Laura. Oh, so you should be! I know I learned "Gaudeamus" at school so I assume it wasn't at NLCS if you don't remember it from there - must have been at the girls' grammar school that I moved to in Oxford. I remember being surprised to discover, at a Halle concert in my first year at Manchester, that it came from a piece by Haydn. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > I know I learned "Gaudeamus" at school so I assume it wasn't at NLCS if > you don't remember it from there - must have been at the girls' grammar > school that I moved to in Oxford. I remember being surprised to > discover, at a Halle concert in my first year at Manchester, that it > came from a piece by Haydn. Not Brahms? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > >On 27 Dec 2006 06:43:14 -0800, "athel...@yahoo" > ><athel_cb@yahoo.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > go to > heaven", The antiphonal "Roller skates>>Pearly gates"? (I think in my part of the US we sang "You can't get to heaven on>>.) > the song about woad, "The quartermasters' store", Now I know we sang that one, but didn't get historic about the woad. Unless we didn't: The Quartermaster Corps It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer In the corps, in the corps. It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer In the Quartermaster Corps. chorus: Mine eyes are dim, I cannot see I have not brought my specs with me I have (hup!) not (ho!) brought my specs with me. It's the brandy, brandy brandy that makes you feel so dandy etc. It's the whiskey; frisky etc. It's the rum; puts you on the bum etc. It's the water; makes you think tou oughta etc. It's the lack of sex that majes us nervous wrecks etc. It's the cheese; brings you to your knees It's the tea; but not for you and me It's the rats; in bowlder hays and spats > "Oh Sir Jasper" and > various others of more or less impropriety). Sorry, Laura. I don't know "Oh, Sir Jasper", but I suspect all of these might trigger the STS in LFS. But the rest of us need to take your apology to heart, too. Found a peanut. (tune of My Darling Clementine) The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: >> >On 27 Dec 2006 06:43:14 -0800, "athel...@yahoo" >> ><athel_cb@yahoo.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer >In the Quartermaster Corps. Hmm... one too many beer? Well, not rally, but one too many for the meter, innit? "It's the beer, beer, that makes you feel so queer..." > The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > "It's the beer, beer, that makes you feel so queer..." Hmm. You might have a different tune in mind than the tune I recall. This meter (metre?) fits the melody in my mind. STS. STS. What is that in Morse code, I wonder. I know what SOS is. http://www.kididdles.com/lyrics/q001.html Oh, it's beans beans beans. (just more lyrics, no tune. http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=929034 The Quartermaster Corps (also known as "Quartermaster's Store") This is a 'traditional' song in the army and may scout camps, though some of the rhymes are changed to more suitable ones for the audience. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer In the corps, in the corps. It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer In the Quartermaster Corps. http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiQMCORP;ttQMCORP.html This has the score, and reference to a .mid of the tune. My meter, and only a few notes different. (That makes you feel so queer goes down in this version, my memorey requires an up scale. Like some polka, I think. Yeah, like "Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight. If that is the title. I think this melody is the British version. It "goes up" where I go up, but has a prettier refrain of "Mine eyes are dim". http://www.mudcat.org/midi/midibrowse.cfm?start_letter=Q (for midi) http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=21373 lyrics 2/3 the way down. The Quartermaster Stores This sounds very British, and has the meter you suggest (ham, ham instead of beer, beer, beer). There was ham, ham, mixed up with the jam, in the stores, in the stores. There was ham, ham, mixed up with the jam, In the quartermaster stores. There is, of course, the official anthem of the Corps. The versions I have heard (it's a march) http://www.branchorientation.com/quartermaster/profile.html make it sound quite German. But maybe that is so with all marches played with the instruments in the .mid versions. The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: >> The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >http://www.mudcat.org/midi/midibrowse.cfm?start_letter=Q (for midi) This one has the meter I remember, but the tune is a little off. The tune goes low after the second 'rats' (my version) We used to sing it: "there were rats, rats, big as alley cats". Your version needs one less beer to make it fit, according to the way I sing it. The only way I can make your version fit is as follows (fixed pitch font will help here). My version is first... "there were rats <pause> rats <pause> big as alley cats. "there were rats rats rats <pause> big as alley cats. >http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=21373 lyrics 2/3 the way >down. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >There was ham, ham, mixed up with the jam, >In the quartermaster stores. That's the one! Another example, with the words we used to sing, when we weren't singing a raunchy version, is at: http://www.scouting.org.za/songs/action.html Pat Durkin wrote, in <vBglh.48549$wP1.25536@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> on Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:25:31 GMT: > Hmm. You might have a different tune in mind than the tune I recall. > This meter (metre?) fits the melody in my mind. STS. STS. What is that > in Morse code, I wonder. I know what SOS is. dit-dit-dit dah dit-dit-dit. SignatureNick Spalding > Pat Durkin wrote, in <vBglh.48549$wP1.25536@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> > on Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:25:31 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > dit-dit-dit dah dit-dit-dit. Back to Gaudeamus Igitur. SignatureRay UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 928 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! mUs1Ka wrote, in <G_tlh.22957$k74.18829@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> on Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:39:50 GMT: > > Pat Durkin wrote, in <vBglh.48549$wP1.25536@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> > > on Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:25:31 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Back to Gaudeamus Igitur. That's more like DTD - dah-dit-dit dah dah-dit-dit. SignatureNick Spalding > It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer > In the corps, in the corps. > It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer > In the Quartermaster Corps. The trick, certainly with schools in England, was to use people's names. So each verse began with "There was [name]". I was lucky in that they found it difficult to get decent rhymes for me. Bannister-canister was about it; Robert they couldn't do, so unfortunately Bob came into it. SignatureRob Bannister >> It's the beer, beer, beer that makes you feel so queer >> In the corps, in the corps. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Bannister-canister was about it; Robert they couldn't do, so > unfortunately Bob came into it. Come on. Give us some examples. This is not curing my STS, you know, hobnobbing with the likes of you. >>>> Unknown in *England*, perhaps, but when I was in Scotland ca. 1959, >>>> all the students at St Andrews knew it. It was the regular [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > quartermasters' store", "Oh Sir Jasper" and various others of more or > less impropriety). Sorry, Laura. I knew "Gaudeamus igitur" when still in Latvia, when I was not even eleven years old. For whatever reason, my dad taught it to me. I have forgotten almost all of it now. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >I knew "Gaudeamus igitur" when still in Latvia, when I was not even eleven >years old. For whatever reason, my dad taught it to me. I have forgotten >almost all of it now. Bombs shall dig our sepulchre Bigger bombs exhume us Gaudeamus igitur juvenes dum sumus. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? A former friend of mine was there about the same time. I still have his academic hood, which I "borrowed" when I lost my London one. SignatureRob Bannister > > My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? > > A former friend of mine was there about the same time. I still have his > academic hood, which I "borrowed" when I lost my London one. I think you made the best of this exchange. St Andrews hoods of 1950s vintage, even those worn by undergraduates, were rather splendid garments suitable for protecting their wearers from cold east winds from the Urals. I don't know if London undergraduates still used hoods at that time, but if they did they were probably thin and useless bits of cotton as they were at Oxford. athel >>>My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > at that time, but if they did they were probably thin and useless bits > of cotton as they were at Oxford. Well, it is certainly a much nicer colour than the one I am entitled to - a deep red, rather than sparrow brown. SignatureRob Bannister > > > My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > at that time, but if they did they were probably thin and useless bits > of cotton as they were at Oxford. That's the gowns. No hoods. St Andrews undergrad gowns are still heavy, I think. SignatureMike. > > > > My sister was also at St Andrews (1958-62); how many more of us? > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > That's the gowns. No hoods. St Andrews undergrad gowns are still heavy, > I think. You are right. I thought after posting that I was making a confusion between hoods and gowns. a. > >>> Unknown in *England*, perhaps, but when I was in Scotland ca. 1959, > >>> all the students at St Andrews knew it. It was the regular conclusion [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But I knew "Gaudeamus igitur" long before she went there; [...] Ah, these sisters got around so much! Mine too. Not to mention b-i-l. They still have their printed St Andrews Song Books. A very good thing, in my opinion; but you wouldn't often get away with it much further south*. Harrow, where John Dean clearly went, is the only school I know of which also has one. (Unless the Dragons, to go along with their very own hard-cover Book of Verse, which is pretty damn neat in itself.) My father's school in Aus claimed some sort of dynastic connection with Harrow (which he assumed Harrow would have repudiated with horror; he did have that Harrow kind of bloody nerve, but I think that's just Australian), and they also sang _Forty Years On_ and _Gaudeamus Igitur_. Latin in an Australian accent is not for the faint-hearted. * I can't quite see Brunel having a Uni song; but if they did, it would have to be _John Henry_, or _Old 97_. Sussex would have "Bo Rhap". SignatureMike. Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > Ah, these sisters got around so much! Mine too. Not to mention b-i-l. > They still have their printed St Andrews Song Books. A very good thing, > in my opinion; but you wouldn't often get away with it much further > south*. Harrow, where John Dean clearly went, is the only school I know > of which also has one. Surely not. John's a Manc, so he must have attended Manchester Grammar School, innit. SignatureDavid ===== > My > father's school in Aus claimed some sort of dynastic connection with > Harrow (which he assumed Harrow would have repudiated with horror; he > did have that Harrow kind of bloody nerve, but I think that's just > Australian), and they also sang _Forty Years On_ and _Gaudeamus > Igitur_. Latin in an Australian accent is not for the faint-hearted. Traditional or reform pronunciation? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. [...] > > Australian), and they also sang _Forty Years On_ and _Gaudeamus > > Igitur_. Latin in an Australian accent is not for the faint-hearted. > > Traditional or reform pronunciation? Hard to tell when people are singing with their mouths shut. SignatureMike. > > > Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus > > > igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > across any of these songs. However, my sister was at St Andrews (also > ca. 1959), and she told me about Gaudeamus igitur etc. I know there are many Dorothy Sayers fans in this group -- is this song related in any way to the title of her novel, "Gaudy Night"? >I know there are many Dorothy Sayers fans in this group -- is this song >related in any way to the title of her novel, "Gaudy Night"? Distantly, yes. The title is the term for the gradates' reunion at the Oxford college in which the book is set, coupled with the "showy, outlandish, bizarre, attention-seeking" meaning of "gaudy". And "Gaudy" does indeed come from the Latin "gaudere", rejoice. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>I know there are many Dorothy Sayers fans in this group -- is this >>song related in any way to the title of her novel, "Gaudy Night"? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "showy, outlandish, bizarre, attention-seeking" meaning of "gaudy". > And "Gaudy" does indeed come from the Latin "gaudere", rejoice. And indeed, "the Gaudie" was the the colloquial name for the song at St Andrews in my day; and "a gaudie" was a songfest. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: The devil gave us the nitrogen triple bond to make life :|| ||: expensive and death cheap. :|| > >I know there are many Dorothy Sayers fans in this group -- is this song > >related in any way to the title of her novel, "Gaudy Night"? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > outlandish, bizarre, attention-seeking" meaning of "gaudy". And > "Gaudy" does indeed come from the Latin "gaudere", rejoice. Cleo says to Tony something close to "Let's have one more gaudy night". "My eyes a-are dim, I can not see: I've had so-ome bromide in my tea." SignatureMike. >>Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >>igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. Although I had sung the song in England - probably in music class - I was quite surprised when I did my semester in Berlin to find it sung regularly at student gatherings. SignatureRob Bannister >>>Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus >>>igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >was quite surprised when I did my semester in Berlin to find it sung >regularly at student gatherings. I first came across it in that Mario Lanza film, but I rather like its mention in Lehrer's "Bright College Days" Bright college days, oh, carefree days that fly, To thee we sing with our glasses raised on high. [holds up eyeglasses] Let's drink a toast as each of us recalls Ivy-covered professors in ivy-covered halls. Turn on the spigot, Pour the beer and swig it, And gaudeamus igit-itur. SignatureRobin Herts, England [snip] > > Another mediaeval Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus > > igitur, juvenes dum sumus") known in 1900 to all students at eastern [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I believe it hails from Germany & is widespread in continental Europe. [snip] When I learned "Gaudeamus Igitur" in the Harvard Glee Club, we were told it was the universal college song of continental Europe, sung at all sorts of rallies, gatherings, etc. Please don't destroy that image. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > When I learned "Gaudeamus Igitur" in the Harvard Glee Club, we > were told it was the universal college song of continental > Europe, sung at all sorts of rallies, gatherings, etc. Please > don't destroy that image. I don't know about all of continental Europe, but the image was valid for Germany, though customs have changed radically over the past few decades. Student songs have become rare. Today you might hear "Gaudeamus igitur" at a closed meeting held by a German fraternity, but it would be unusual to hear it somewhere else. There was a time, actually not so very long ago, when you could come out of a tavern with a group of friends in the evening in Heidelberg or any other university town, and one of your group would suddenly strike up "Gaudeamus igitur." Everyone would join in, belting it out while walking home in the dark. Soon you'd hear other groups, in front and behind of you on the street, taking up the song. Regards, ----- WB. >> When I learned "Gaudeamus Igitur" in the Harvard Glee Club, we >> were told it was the universal college song of continental [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Soon you'd hear other groups, in front and behind of you on the > street, taking up the song. That sounds much like the scene in "The Student Prince" (the movie from 1954) the students left the biergarten marching away in groups, and the song, as I recall, faded away, leaving the Prince to wax nostalgic (Golden Days) as he prepared to leave Heidelberg and his carefree life. I think his father had died or fallen ill, so the Prince was called to duty. > That sounds much like the scene in "The Student Prince" (the > movie from 1954) the students left the biergarten marching > away in groups, and the song, as I recall, faded away, leaving > the Prince to wax nostalgic (Golden Days) as he prepared to > leave Heidelberg and his carefree life. I think his father had > died or fallen ill, so the Prince was called to duty. It's an image that the Heidelberg tourist industry apparently tries to maintain because it seems to be the reason why some tourists want to go to the old university town. They have seen some movie or other and go looking for the movie scenes today. Heidelberg wants to accommodate them by showing them historical student restaurants like "Zum roten Ochsen" . One Heidelberg fraternity, Leonensia, proclaims on their Internet site that they sing student songs, and Leonensia gives a list of 17 of them, including "Gaudeamus igitur." The fraternity has regular monthly meetings in historical restaurants; therefore, I suppose it's possible to come across their group sitting around a big table in some public place, singing their theme song "Die Gedanken sind frei" (Thoughts Are Free). http://www.leonensia.de/lieder.php I believe, however, someone in search of German student songs like "Gaudeamus igitur" in real life would have to set out with the determined intent of finding them because, like so many other German customs, they've receded deep into the shadows in the past few decades. If you asked a German student today where you could go to hear "Gaudeamus igitur," he'd most likely answer: "Heck, let's just go to a good disco and forget about it!" Regards, ----- WB. > Another mediaeval > Latin song adopted in the USA was "Gaudeamus igitur, > juvenes dum sumus") Pity about the words. It's got a "dum", but no "dee" or "diddle". I sing it best to: Dum di-dee dee dum di-dee Dum di-dee *dum*, dum di-ee. The author only got one word right. SignatureRob Bannister > Hello, Everyone: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > --Roland http://www.osu.edu/news/history.php Carmen Ohio Oh! Come let's sing Ohio's praise, And songs to Alma Mater raise; While our hearts rebounding thrill, With joy which death alone can still. Summer's heat or Winter's cold, The seasons pass, the years will roll; Time and change will surely show How firm thy friendship O-hi-o. These jolly days of priceless worth, By far the gladest days of earth, Soon will pass and we not know, How dearly we love O-hi-o. We should strive to keep the name, Of fair repute and spotless fame, So, in college halls we'll grow, To love the better, O-hi-o. Tho' age may dim our mem'ry's store, We'll think of happy days of yore, True to friend and frank to foe, As sturdy sons of O-hi-o. If on seas of care we roll, 'Neath blackened sky, o'er barren shoal, Tho'ts of thee bid darkness go, Dear Alma Mater O-hi-o. > Carmen Ohio > Oh! Come let's sing Ohio's praise, In southern California, with grace and splendor bound, Where the lofty mountain peaks look out to lands beyond, Proudly stands our alma mater, glorious to see. We raise our voices proudly, hailing, hailing thee. Echoes ringing while we're singing, over land and sea: The halls of fame resound thy name, noble CIT. The Yale alma mater, "Bright College Days", ends with the wonderful anticlimax For God, for country, and for Yale. It is to the tune of "Die Wacht am Rhein". I was told by someone who was present at the commencement where Konrad Adenauer received an honorary degree that he kept a straight face. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the :|| ||: conspiracy is working. :|| > > Carmen Ohio > > Oh! Come let's sing Ohio's praise, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > was present at the commencement where Konrad Adenauer received an > honorary degree that he kept a straight face. My old university has a standard, possibly even official, song but it is more usually song while standing on bar tables and/ or with linked arms and chorus girl type kicking. This can be quite a challenge while trying to hold onto your beer and not waste it by pouring it down your dancing partner's neck. I cannot imagine it being sung at something like a graduation ceremony (well except by a few drunks in the back row). [...] >> The Yale alma mater, "Bright College Days", ends with the wonderful >> anticlimax [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I cannot imagine it being sung at something like a graduation > ceremony (well except by a few drunks in the back row). Would John Brown have had to struggle to keep a straight face? I always thought of it as more of a football cheer than a school song. > [...] > >> The Yale alma mater, "Bright College Days", ends with the wonderful [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Would John Brown have had to struggle to keep a straight face? I > always thought of it as more of a football cheer than a school song. Well according to the propaganda, err, history. it was written as a song. The blasted thing has something like a dozen verses, if I recall correctly. Anyway, I have never heard of anything otherwise close to a school song. Maybe we do but only played on the pipes? John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > [...] > >> The Yale alma mater, "Bright College Days", ends with the wonderful [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Would John Brown have had to struggle to keep a straight face? I > always thought of it as more of a football cheer than a school song. Well according to the propaganda, err, history, it was written as a song. The blasted thing has something like a dozen verses, if I recall correctly. Anyway, I have never heard of anything otherwise close to a school song. Maybe we do but only played on the pipes? John Kane, Kingston ON Canada >> [...] >>>> The Yale alma mater, "Bright College Days", ends with the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > recall correctly. Anyway, I have never heard of anything otherwise > close to a school song. Maybe we do but only played on the pipes? It's both, apparently. I went and googled for it: a Queen's Encyclopedia, who knew?* At football games it is a tradition that students perform an Oil Thigh after every touchdown. The song "Queen's College Colours" was written in 1898 by student Alfred Lavell to inspire Queen's football team to victory after a disappointing loss to the University of Toronto. Its staying power is somewhat surprising: it was just one of countless university songs penned at a time when songwriting was a booming pastime among students, and even Lavell later described its verses as "sophomoric." Its survival is due partly to its rousing Gaelic chorus, which was actually written separately as a university cheer in 1891, and its popular tune, stolen from the American "Battle Hymn of the Republic." ______________ * http://qnc.queensu.ca/Encyclopedia/Queen_s_Encyclopedia_O/queen_s_encyclopedia_o .html#OilThigh http://tinyurl.com/thlje |
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