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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007Nether Wallop
I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, but now Google gives me "about 32,600" hits on "Nether Wallop". Sounds like Nether Wallop, Hampshire, could be a sister city to Kick in the a.s, Nebraska, if there were such a place as the latter. >I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to Kick in the a.s, Nebraska, if there were such a place as >the latter. Ah, the magic of placenames! There is a whole family of Wallops in Hampshire - Nether, Middle and Over, in ascending order, though cities they never shall be. Someone must have compiled a list of the more appealing. The Piddles in Daarset would surely feature, and I have a fondness for Down Ampney in Gloucestershire. Shropshire has its fair share, I think. And Sandy Beds (though it really qualifies for a comma to separate the town from its county) deserves a mention.  SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > >I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called > >"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Paul > In bocca al Lupo! Middle Wallop was a famed RAF base duting the BOB. >> >I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >> >"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Middle Wallop was a famed RAF base duting the BOB. Field Marshal Montgomery had his home near there as well. > >> >I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called > >> >"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > Field Marshal Montgomery had his home near there as well. In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >> >> >I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >> >> >"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > In America Monty is hated more than any German General. What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to work up something. I have no idea why I should, though. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>>>> I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >>>>>> "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to > work up something. I have no idea why I should, though. Well, he was beastly to Ike once or twice. Hemingway has Cantwell rage about Monty in "Across the River ..." (although he also rages about Ike). Given that General Dietrich was convicted for the murder of American POWs in the Malmedy massacre, it's hard to imagine Monty is at number one on the hate list. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the Malmedy massacre, it's hard to imagine Monty is at number one on the >hate list. If it's my duty as an American to hate all Englishmen who have been beastly to Americans, I will have to give up a number of other activities in order to have time for proper hating. It seems like a bit much to take on. How do the English handle this? Is George S. Patton, Jr. on every Englishman's list for being beastly to Monty? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On 01 Jan 2007, Tony Cooper wrote > How do the English handle this? Is George S. Patton, Jr. on > every Englishman's list for being beastly to Monty? I think he's just considered a bit of a megalomaniac: not as loopy as MacArthur, but sort of cut from the same cloth. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >>>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > How do the English handle this? Is George S. Patton, Jr. on every > Englishman's list for being beastly to Monty? Au contraire (as George himself might say) Patton has always been fairly popular. I've met several men who served in the 8th Army (as other ranks) and, with one exception, they thought Monty was a bit of a sh.t. I see a great deal written about "his men loved Monty" and I wonder how true it really was. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford On 01 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote >> How do the English handle this? Is George S. Patton, Jr. on >> every Englishman's list for being beastly to Monty? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Monty was a bit of a sh.t. I see a great deal written about "his > men loved Monty" and I wonder how true it really was. Perhaps as Josephine said of Sir Joseph Porter -- "I know that he is a truly great and good man, for he told me so himself". SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >>>>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >great deal written about "his men loved Monty" and I wonder how true it >really was. It was true. Monty, like most of Churchill's generals, had served as a junior and field officer in the Great War, he had been severely wounded in that war, hence his caution about wasting lives in WW2. Patton just served for a few weeks at the end of WW1, supposed to have copped a bullet in the leg, even though he was tank warrior. >>>>>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > It was true. Evidence? Remember, I've met several of his men who actively disliked him. Was this "love" a majority view, or just the most commonly expressed? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>>>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Evidence? Remember, I've met several of his men who actively disliked him. If they were old 'Desert Rats' who had been in N.Africa before Monty showed up, it is understandable. THey had suffered for years with inadequate support and some mediocre leadership. >Was this "love" a majority view, or just the most commonly expressed? ORs rarely get to see or talk with Generals. 'Bill' Slim was probably one of the few WW2 generals really liked by his men. >>>>>>>> In America Monty is hated more than any German General. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Monty showed up, it is understandable. THey had suffered for years > with inadequate support and some mediocre leadership. I'd have thought those were the very ones who were prime candidates to fall in love with him. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford I've met several men who served in the 8th Army (as other ranks) > and, with one exception, they thought Monty was a bit of a sh.t. I see a > great deal written about "his men loved Monty" and I wonder how true it > really was. My father served in the 8th Army, but I don't recall his ever offering an opinion of Montgomery one way or the other. He did, however, express admiration for Rommel. Fran >If it's my duty as an American to hate all Englishmen who have been >beastly to Americans, I will have to give up a number of other [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >How do the English handle this? Is George S. Patton, Jr. on every >Englishman's list for being beastly to Monty? We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a non-negligible possibility of "How many singles and albums have they sold?". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most > Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a > non-negligible possibility of "How many singles and albums have they > sold?". We have not yet passed, but are definitely approaching, the time at which most Englishmen will ask "What are singles and albums?" The singles chart has already been largely supplanted by the download chart, and even (God help us) the ringtone chart. Mike M mikmooney@googlemail.com had it: > > We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most > > Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The singles chart has already been largely supplanted by the download > chart, and even (God help us) the ringtone chart. <God> You're on your own! </God> SignatureDavid ===== >> We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most >> Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >The singles chart has already been largely supplanted by the download >chart, and even (God help us) the ringtone chart. From January 1st, 2007 the UK singles chart will include downloads on an equal basis with physical singles. I don't know whether separate download charts will continue in some form or other. http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1979788,00.html Oldies but goldies benefit in digital revamp of charts · Record industry agrees to shakeup of Top 75 listing · Downloads give new lease of life to dinosaurs of rock Owen Gibson, media correspondent Friday December 29, 2006 The Guardian A shakeup of the singles chart will mean downloads of album tracks, older songs and digital-only releases will count toward the top 75 rundown compiled by the Official Charts Company. ... The move is likely to see older tracks brought to a new generation by TV shows, advertisements and films, or newly released digitally, shoot up the charts. ... Albums by major artists such as U2 and Coldplay are expected to chart through people buying just a track before deciding on buying the album. ... In the runup to Christmas, Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas and Wham's Last Christmas would have charted despite not being available in the shops. It also potentially allows unsigned artists to bypass the music industry altogether. Any sale through a chart-registered online store, such as Apple's iTunes or IndieStore.com, will count toward the chart. ... This year [2006] digital downloads were allowed to enter the charts a week before the single was in shops, leading to Gnarls Barkley's Crazy becoming the first No 1 single without a copy passing over a shop counter. It kept the slot for nine weeks. The industry hopes that by untethering digital releases from the physical launch, tracks will spend longer in the charts and rise and fall more slowly, as in the halcyon days of the 1970s and 1980s. Recorded sales of singles had slumped by more than 50% since the late 1990s before the decision in April 2005 to add downloads to the singles charts. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most >> Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >We have not yet passed, but are definitely approaching, the time at >which most Englishmen will ask "What are singles and albums?" Albums are those blank things waiting for scissors and glue, aren't they? The modern equivalent would be a virgin iPod. The Beatles' White Album was pretty sound, though. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >>We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most >>Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > We have not yet passed, but are definitely approaching, the time at > which most Englishmen will ask "What are singles and albums?" On the other hand, I was trying to explain to my mother the other day what a dvd was and had to resort to "like a record". Then, I totally confused her by playing a dvd film. SignatureRob Bannister > We are approaching, or may have passed, the time at which most > Englishmen would ask "Who are Patton and Monty?" with a > non-negligible possibility of "How many singles and albums have they > sold?". I thought Monty's five wickets in Perth would have done a lot to enhance his reputation. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > >>>>>> I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called. > >>>>>> "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > the Malmedy massacre, it's hard to imagine Monty is at number one on the > hate list. Try to find an American who has heard of Sepp Dietrich or any German general other than Rommel. Whereas Monty was always scheming against Ike and trying to show up Patton. In the movie Patton one of the big scenes is Patton beating Monty to Messinaand even Saving Pvt.Ryan takes a gratuitous cheap shot at him. American WWII histories always denigrate Monty and never give him any credit for anything. >> >>>>>> I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called. >> >>>>>> "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >American WWII histories always denigrate Monty and never give him any credit >for anything. How does this equate to hating? You didn't say he was the most under-rated Allied high-ranking officer. You said he was the most hated. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >> >>>>>> I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called. > >> >>>>>> "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > under-rated Allied high-ranking officer. You said he was the most > hated. Watch Patton, read American histories. Monty is always shown as a petty credit stealing weasel. >> >>>>>> I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called. >> >>>>>> "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >general other than Rommel. >Whereas Monty was always scheming against Ike and trying to show up Patton. That is nonsense. Eisenhower was Supreme Commander of the ETO, same as Mountbatten was Supreme Commander in South East Asia. Montgomery differed in his strategic ideas from Ike, and he was proved right when the British and Canadian forces made their strike up to Belgium and Holland instead of getting bogged down in the Ardennes. ! > >> the Malmedy massacre, it's hard to imagine Monty is at number one on the > >> hate list. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > right when the British and Canadian forces made their strike up to > Belgium and Holland instead of getting bogged down in the Ardennes. After Market-Garden the 21st Army Group sat for six months in an exhausted state. The Arnhem battle was not a success. The Ardennes was a lightly held section of the line that the 1st U.S Army was holding with a minimal force.The Germans chose to attack there and it was they who got bogged down in it and they who suffered defeat. When the Battle of the Bulge was over two German srmies , the 6th SS Panzer {Dietrich} and the 5th Panzer{ von Manteuffel} were defeated and had lost all of their mechanized forces. The American victory there shortened the war by months. Monty always drew up bold plans which he then executed most timidly. The reason Allied forces had to stop at the German border in late fall 1944 was due to Monty's failure to clear the Sheldt and allow supplies to be brought in through Antwerp. In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: >> What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to >> work up something. I have no idea why I should, though. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the Malmedy massacre, it's hard to imagine Monty is at number one on the >hate list. Hemingway got an entire squadron of French tanks destroyed during the advance on Paris. (He lied about having scouted its next objective. His excuse: "I had to find somebody to be my guinea-pig.") So you'd think it would be the patriotic duty of every Frenchman to hate him, but the village where this happened, Toussus Le Noble, has just named a street after him. Monument to the dead tankers: http://www.toussus.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=96 Papa's impasse: http://www.toussus.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=30 SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > village where this happened, Toussus Le Noble, has just named a street > after him. Find a copy of S.LA.Marshall's first book 'Battle at Best' {Best is a town in Holland} and read the last few chapters. Marshall his jeep driver and Hemingway were the first three in Paris, then read Papa's account of the same events. The differences are quite funny. In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: >"Vinny Burgoo" <hnNULh@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >> Hemingway got an entire squadron of French tanks destroyed during the >> advance on Paris. (He lied about having scouted its next objective. His [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Hemingway were the first three in Paris, then read Papa's account of the >same events. The differences are quite funny. Marshall is mentioned in _Is Paris Burning?_, the source of the guinea-pig quote. I'm sure you already know that he claimed to have been given 67 bottles of champagne by the time he reached the Seine. Speaking of Hemingway, has anyone mentioned Littlehampton yet? SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: >> "Vinny Burgoo" <hnNULh@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Speaking of Hemingway, has anyone mentioned Littlehampton yet? Maudie? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford [...] > > Speaking of Hemingway, has anyone mentioned Littlehampton yet? > > Maudie? I dare say she'd have known. But I see from a website that Osbert apparently coined the term "stockbroker Tudor". The only one of his I remember was one old biddy, with opera-glasses, to another: "Darling! I declare this Major Gagarin is _quite_ as fascinating as that Monsieur Bleriot!" OWTTE. SignatureMike. In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: >> Marshall is mentioned in _Is Paris Burning?_, the source of the >> guinea-pig quote. I'm sure you already know that he claimed to have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Maudie? Littlewood? I might have erred. I have a vague memory of reading, in a book by one of his wives (Gellhorn?), that Hemingway was rather small in the trouser department, but the omniscient Interweb says that this was true of Fitzgerald, not Hemingway. (Those who enjoy literary prurience might like to look at <http://www.jonathanames.com/blog/literary_blog.html>. The Literary Dick answers important questions like "What happened to Henry James' testicles?", "Was Ernest Hemingway's nudism hereditary?", "Did James Joyce lie beneath a glass coffee table and watch his wife perform a shameful and filthy act?" and "How did the young Tarzan learn to wipe his bottom?") SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: > >"Vinny Burgoo" <hnNULh@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > -- > V Brig.Gen S.L.A.Marshall conducted the after action interviews and surveys for the U.S.Army in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam to discover what actuallt was happening in combat. He wrote a dozen + books all are worth reading. Marshall was in every U.S. war of the 20th century except the Gulf War. In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: >Brig.Gen S.L.A.Marshall conducted the after action interviews and surveys >for the U.S.Army in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam to discover what actuallt was >happening in combat. He wrote a dozen + books all are worth reading. >Marshall was in every U.S. war of the 20th century except the Gulf War. Grenada? Cuba? Er [googles], the Boxer Rebellion, the Philippines, Mexico, the Russian Civil War, the Banana Wars, Libya, Lebanon, Panama ... ? SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Er [googles], the Boxer Rebellion, the Philippines, Mexico, the Russian > Civil War, the Banana Wars, Libya, Lebanon, Panama ... ? Perhaps Ray somehow manages to class all those as what we used to call "punitive expeditions" in the good old sola topi days: can't count knocking a bit of sense into the Afridis as a "war", dash it! Or "police actions": love that expression. SignatureMike. In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: >> In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: >> >Marshall was in every U.S. war of the 20th century except the Gulf War. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Or "police actions": love that expression. Move along quietly, sir, or I'll have to gunboat your falafel. SignatureV >In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: >>> In alt.usage.english, Ray O'Hara wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Move along quietly, sir, or I'll have to gunboat your falafel. He was on the Sand Pebbles, toting a 500 pound machine gun. In alt.usage.english, irwell wrote: >He was on the Sand Pebbles, toting a 500 pound machine gun. No, that was "Frenchy" Attenborough. Don't be fooled by the moustache. (Speaking of HMS Amethyst - almost, anyway - did you know that her ship's cat was promoted to Able Seacat for killing rats under fire? I didn't. Wiki, for all its faults, is a marvel.) SignatureV What sort of pervert names a cat Simon? [...] > > What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to > > work up something. I have no idea why I should, though. > > Well, he was beastly to Ike once or twice. [...] That reminds me. From "bestial" to "unkind" is easy enough; but I had to do a double take when my son, aged 24, said of the big Chelsea tractor we hired in Iceland "This car's really beastly". For a moment I thought he was commenting, in slightly quaint terms, on the vehicle's environmental horridness, though in a puzzlingly complimentary tone of voice: I then sussed that in fact he was admiring it as "a powerful beast". Anybody else spotted this usage in the wild? SignatureMike. > [...] > > > What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > Mike. My nephew and his friends will same something is "beast", meaning large, powerful or whatever, but along those lines. >[...] >> > What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >voice: I then sussed that in fact he was admiring it as "a powerful >beast". Anybody else spotted this usage in the wild? I suspect it may originally have been coined by some drum 'n' bass journo or writer of club flyers -- no doubt to alliterate with "beats" and "bass" -- and then extended into general "wicked"/"banging" territory. I can't remember actually hearing it but I think I've seen it in some chemically fraternal kind of context or other. SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>[...] >>> > What's this? If it's my patriotic duty to hate Monty, I'll try to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >territory. I can't remember actually hearing it but I think I've seen >it in some chemically fraternal kind of context or other. Strike that; it's probably bollocks. A further Google on "sounds beastly" brings up a raft of SUVs and 4-by-4s and little or no D&B, so it seems the original culprit is more likely to be Jeremy Clarkson than Fatboy Slim. SignatureArchie Valparaiso > That reminds me. From "bestial" to "unkind" is easy enough; but I had > to do a double take when my son, aged 24, said of the big Chelsea [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > voice: I then sussed that in fact he was admiring it as "a powerful > beast". Anybody else spotted this usage in the wild? Not quite, but "it's a brute" comes close. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au Paul Wolff (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message <hMwp8eH9HCmFFAr8@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>: > and I have a > fondness for Down Ampney in Gloucestershire. The place is most notable (among classical music buffs at least) as the birthplace of Ralph Vaughan Williams. The melody he wrote for the Whitsun hymn "Come down O Love Divine" is known as Down Ampney for this reason. For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, also in Gloucestershire. Pennsylvania can be found a few miles north of Bath, and California is on the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great Yarmouth. SignatureTerms and conditions apply. Batteries not included. Subject to status. Contains moderate language. Always read the label. Keep out of children. Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply On 31 Dec 2006, Prai Jei wrote > Paul Wolff (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in > message [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > California is on the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great > Yarmouth. Normandy is between Guildford and Farnborough. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 31 Dec 2006, Prai Jei wrote > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed > For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van Wales is just north of the Connecticut border on Rte I-84. > Wales is just north of the Connecticut border on Rte I-84. "Route" I-84? IME, if you're talking about an interstate, you don't affix "Route" to the name of the interstate. SignatureSalvatore Volatile >Paul Wolff (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message ><hMwp8eH9HCmFFAr8@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Pennsylvania can be found a few miles north of Bath, and California is on >the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great Yarmouth. Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of Reading. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >>Paul Wolff (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message >><hMwp8eH9HCmFFAr8@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of > Reading. Must've took a wrong toin at Albuquerque. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of >> Reading. > >Must've took a wrong toin at Albuquerque. Isn't that near Truth and Consequences? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of >>> Reading. >> >>Must've took a wrong toin at Albuquerque. > > Isn't that near Truth and Consequences? 149 miles (2 hrs 13 min estimated driving time) from city center to city center, according to Google Maps. Interstate highway virtually all the way. One of the wider spots on the road from Albuquerque to El Paso, Texas. Thus, not at all far by western US standards. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of >>>> Reading. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Thus, not at all far by western US standards. Still a bit further than from Nether to Middle or Upper Wallop, which I passed through last year. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of > >> Reading. > > > >Must've took a wrong toin at Albuquerque. > > Isn't that near Truth and Consequences? Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he would do the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show > Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program > in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he > would do the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show This sort of thing still astounds me. Can you imagine it happening in any other country in the world? Mike M >> Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program >> in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he >> would do the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show > >This sort of thing still astounds me. Can you imagine it happening in >any other country in the world? What sort of thing? Changing city's name? Russia comes to mind as a country that has several city's that have changed names over time. The UK town of Peterlee was so-named in 1948. Prior to that, it was Yoden, although Yoden was not an established town. I wonder if the residents of Twatt, in the Orkney Islands, have considered a name-change. Speaking of place names, there are some from Devon(UK)who can go from Beer to Twitchen. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > Speaking of place names, there are some from Devon(UK)who can go from > Beer to Twitchen. Though, I imagine they are more likely to go from Beer to Chipshop (see above). SignatureWH > > Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program > > in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he > > would do the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show > > This sort of thing still astounds me. Can you imagine it happening in > any other country in the world? The funny thing is, it happens in the US _all the time_. SignatureSML this space for rent que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com had it: > > > Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program > > > in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The funny thing is, it happens in the US _all the time_. Funie Steed! Oops, sorry, I panicked. SignatureDavid ===== } Mike M wrote: } }> Ray O'Hara wrote: }> }> > }> > Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program }> > in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he }> > would do the program from the first town that renamed itself after the show }> > }> }> This sort of thing still astounds me. Can you imagine it happening in }> any other country in the world? } } The funny thing is, it happens in the US _all the time_. Besides which, who would watch a show called _Joan of Elkton_? Signaturerjv You see, _Joan of Arcadia_ was set in Maryland (clearly showing an MVA office) in a county without a police department but with a sheriff's department and with town police departments, one of which got abolished. > > > Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular radio program > > > in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph Edwards announced that he [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The funny thing is, it happens in the US _all the time_. In Massachusetts the town of Belchertown, named for Governor Belcher, has to fnd off attempts to rename it quite frequently. Almost all the attempts are started by new residents the longtome residents are quite fierce in the defence of there name On 03 Jan 2007, Mike M wrote >> Originally called Hot Springs, it took the name of a popular >> radio program in 1950, when Truth or Consequences host Ralph [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This sort of thing still astounds me. Can you imagine it > happening in any other country in the world? Well, it's not exactly the same as changing an existing name, but "Westward Ho!" in Devon was named for the novel by Charles Kingsley. (This must have been asked before, but are there any other town names which include an exclamation mark?) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van [...] > Well, it's not exactly the same as changing an existing name, but > "Westward Ho!" in Devon was named for the novel by Charles Kingsley. > > (This must have been asked before, but are there any other town names > which include an exclamation mark?) "Oh, God! Oh, Montreal!" But I don't suppose that counts. SignatureMike. >>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just >>> south of Reading. >> >> Must've took a wrong toin at Albuquerque. > > Isn't that near Truth and Consequences? How long would it take to get to Tulsa from there? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > >>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just > >>> south of Reading. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > John Dean > Oxford They are around 700 miles apart. The roads are flat straight and wide, so it depends on how fast you drive. > > >>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just > > >>> south of Reading. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > They are around 700 miles apart. The roads are flat straight and wide, so > it depends on how fast you drive. John'll be OK, then. A reasonable cruising speed should allow ample time for breaks, photos, and a night in a handy motel. SignatureMike. >>>>>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just >>>>>> south of Reading. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > John'll be OK, then. A reasonable cruising speed should allow ample > time for breaks, photos, and a night in a handy motel. I was thinking of keeping it down to a little over 43 mph. Allow 8 hours for a motel stopover and that'll be pretty much a whole day. It'd be handy if I passed a post office where I could write to say that I won't be home. SignatureJohn "any more" Dean Oxford John Dean <john-dean@fraglineone.net> had it: > >>>>>> Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just > >>>>>> south of Reading. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > a motel stopover and that'll be pretty much a whole day. It'd be handy if I > passed a post office where I could write to say that I won't be home. Singing telegram, Shirley? SignatureDavid ===== > I was thinking of keeping it down to a little over 43 mph. A traffic hazard. I would guess that more than half of the vehicles here do at least that on busy, city streets. SignatureRob Bannister [ ... ] > >Pennsylvania can be found a few miles north of Bath, and California is on > >the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great Yarmouth. > > Not when it's on the Nine Mile Ride (Noine Moile Roide?), just south of > Reading. nor when it's a very small bit of Birmingham. athel athel...@yahoo (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message <1167758256.539848.119640@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>: >> >Pennsylvania can be found a few miles north of Bath, and California is >> >on the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great Yarmouth. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > nor when it's a very small bit of Birmingham. You will also find Pennsylvania if you dare to venture into the Llanedeyrn area of Cardiff. SignatureTerms and conditions apply. Batteries not included. Subject to status. Contains moderate language. Always read the label. Keep out of children. Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Pennsylvania can be found a few miles north of Bath, and California is on > the Norfolk coast a few miles north of Great Yarmouth. You've just reminded me of one particularly good family holiday at Little California just after the War. I think I nearly killed myself burrowing under the sand which had been left in a deep shelf by a storm. After that, we used to go to awful Jaywick. SignatureRob Bannister >For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, >also in Gloucestershire. delightful places both; if you get to Upper instead of Lower, you've taken the wrong turning in Stow-on-the-Wold. Somewhere on the old A1 north of Watford, there's Dancer's Hill on the right and Trotter's Bottom on the left. Katy >>For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, >>also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Somewhere on the old A1 north of Watford, there's Dancer's Hill on the right >and Trotter's Bottom on the left. And Cat's Ash is near Newport, Wales. Mike SignatureM.J.Powell On 01 Jan 2007, M. J. Powell wrote >> Somewhere on the old A1 north of Watford, there's Dancer's Hill >> on the right and Trotter's Bottom on the left. > > And Cat's Ash is near Newport, Wales. Has anyone mentioned the Hampshire town of Sandy Balls yet? SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >>For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, >>also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Somewhere on the old A1 north of Watford, there's Dancer's Hill on the right >and Trotter's Bottom on the left. And north (with a westward tendency) of Watford, hill and bottom are combined in Buck's Hill Bottom. I used to cycle in that area WIWAL. Reminiscing: I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury Estate[1]). Living about half a mile from us was Sam Costa -- of the radio and TV shows: ITMA, Much-Binding-In-The-Marsh, The Charlie Farnsbarns Show, etc. [1] "Estate": the BrE usage of this word has been discussed in AUE recently. In this case the Cassiobury Estate started life as a "a property consisting of a large house and extensive grounds" and became "an area of land and modern buildings developed for residential...purposes" (definitions from online COED). Watford Council (local government) had purchased the original estate and used part of it for private residences (1909). I don't know whether these were ever rented by their occupiers, but when we moved there my father bought ours from the previous occupier. The residents of the area appeared to be middle-class. This arrangement does not fit the more recent BrE usage of "council estate". There is a very brief history of the estate at: http://www.communigate.co.uk/herts/friendsofcassioburypark/page2.phtml A brief history of Cassiobury. 1100 Cassiobury is mentioned in the Domesday book as belonging to the Abbey of St Albans. 1539 Dissolution of the monasteries; King Henry 8th made himself Lord of the Manor. 1545 The King sold the land to Richard Morrison, who started to build a large mansion, which was finished by his son Charles. Through marriage the Estate passed into the Capel family. Lord Capel was executed in 1649 for his loyalty to Charles 1. At the restoration, his eldest son Arthur was created Earl of Essex and the estate was returned to the family. Arthur commisioned Hugh May to rebuild the house incorporating the original North West wing. The first Earl also started developing the park importing many exotic trees. 1687 The Earl was arrested and taken to the tower [of London] for plotting to assassinate Charles 11. In July of that year The Earl was found with his throat cut. 1800 the 5th Earl commissioned James Wyatt to remodel the house 1902 Family moved out as the upkeep of the house was too expensive. 1909 184 acres of parkland sold by the 8th Earl. Watford Council bought most of it and used it for housing and a public park. 1927 the house was demolished. The grand staircase designed by Gibbons was removed to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York[2]. Other materials from the house were used to restore Monmouth house in Watford High Street. 1967 the entrance gates were demolished in order to widen the road. Sam Costa lived in a much larger house in larger grounds than the others in the modern estate. It might or might not have been a "small house" on the original estate of the Earl of Essex. [2] The Metropolitan Museum seems to have a more accurate attribution for the staircase: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/ench/hod_32.152.htm ...attributed to the English master Edmund Pearce, but it is similar to the work of Grinling Gibbons... More detail can be seen by enlarging the picture on that page. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; no, since you ask). Katy >>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury > >I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; no, since you >ask). That makes three aue-ers with Watford connections, that I know of ... so far. You, Linz ("Amethyst Deceiver") and me. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >> I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; no, since you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You, Linz ("Amethyst Deceiver") and me. Everyone else by-passed it? Cheers, Sage >>>> I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>> I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Everyone else by-passed it? Or came from North of it. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>> I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>>> I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Or came from North of it. I was once at a party in London which featured a number of what, in later years, came to be known as Sloane (sp.?) Rangers. One asked where I came from, because I had such an "interesting accent". I said I came from "oop North". "Oo", she said, "I've been up North." "Where?" I asked. "St. Albans," she replied. Cheers, Sage >>>>>> I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>>>> I was born in Watford. (at a Seventh Day Adventist nursing home; [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I was once at a party in London which featured a number of what, in >later years, came to be known as Sloane (sp.?) Rangers. Princess Diana's old mob. >That makes three aue-ers with Watford connections, that I know of >... so far. > >You, Linz ("Amethyst Deceiver") and me. And Fabian (whatever happened to Fabian?) We had an aue boink in Watford, which he organised I think. I know Garry and Stephen Toogood and I were there - and Linz? Katy >>That makes three aue-ers with Watford connections, that I know of >>... so far. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >We had an aue boink in Watford, which he organised I think. I know Garry and >Stephen Toogood and I were there - and Linz? Yes, and me. Was Graeme also at that one, or am I mistaken? SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You, Linz ("Amethyst Deceiver") and me. Husband worked there for a time (not a very happy one) and we did look at houses with a view to moving there - does that count? Mum once persuaded Dad to drive her there (from Wembley) on a rather unsuccessful shopping expedition, after which the question "And who was it who made me drive all the way to Watford to buy a half a pound of tomatoes?" surfaced whenever they had a difference of opinion. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Husband worked there for a time (not a very happy one) and we did look >at houses with a view to moving there - does that count? Close. >Mum once persuaded Dad to drive her there (from Wembley) on a rather >unsuccessful shopping expedition, after which the question "And who was >it who made me drive all the way to Watford to buy a half a pound of >tomatoes?" surfaced whenever they had a difference of opinion. <Chuckle> SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > >>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury > >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > it who made me drive all the way to Watford to buy a half a pound of > tomatoes?" surfaced whenever they had a difference of opinion. I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or since) that I ever saw a Wendy's in the UK, and I am partial to their hamburgery comestibles. SignatureDavid ===== >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >since) that I ever saw a Wendy's in the UK, and I am partial to their >hamburgery comestibles. Didn't there use to be (1980s) one on Shaftesbury Avenue or thereabouts? SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We >>took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Didn't there use to be (1980s) one on Shaftesbury Avenue or >thereabouts? Not sure about Shaftesbury Ave but there was one in Queensway for a while. Watford's was the one that lasted longest, though. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We >>>took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not sure about Shaftesbury Ave but there was one in Queensway for a > while. Watford's was the one that lasted longest, though. Shaftesbury Avenue sounds plausible to me; I remember there being one somewhere not too far from Trafalgar Square, when I was there in 1986. SignatureSalvatore Volatile In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote: >On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:06:43 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> >>I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We >>took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Didn't there use to be (1980s) one on Shaftesbury Avenue or >thereabouts? Somewhere around there, yes. It was in a basement. Very tasty burgers and a crunchy salad bar. (The first time I went to London - to see "Custer" - my dad pointed at a man on Shaftesbury Avenue and claimed that he was selling ants that had been boiled alive in chocolate. He also claimed that when he were a lad people used to eat boiled sheep heads rather than popcorn in the cinema - you'd sit it on your lap and pick at it. Can either of these things have been true?) SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote: > >On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:06:43 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > - you'd sit it on your lap and pick at it. Can either of these things > have been true?) Well, my father got us some chocolate-coated ants one Christmas; but they were Japanese. And stale. The Shaftesbury Ave man can't have been the Passion Proteins bloke: I bought his pamphlet*, and, though ants aren't specifically fingered, I'm sure they're highly proteinaceous. Is that a sheep's head on your lap, or have you been impregnated by a protein-crazed alien? *To my delight, I find it's reproduced at: http://www.flaneur.org.uk/html/green/green.html "This booklet would benefit more, if it were read occasionally." SignatureMike. In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: >*To my delight, I find it's reproduced at: >http://www.flaneur.org.uk/html/green/green.html Thanks for that. I saw him a few times (and probably pointed at him and sniggered, but he must have been used to that) but I never bought his booklet. I have copied it to Clipmate and will read it when I next feel the need to Moderate my Passions. Do you remember the chap who used to do the Eqyptian Sand Dance in Leicester Square? It would probably be condemned as appallingly racist stereotyping these days (though I remember watching ten real Egyptians doing it on a real Egyptian TV show: I wonder if they stole it from Keppel and Betty or if Keppel and Betty stole it from them) but I enjoyed it enough to give him a few pennies, or maybe even a shiny sixpence. >"This booklet would benefit more, if it were read occasionally." Not least because you'd be Safe from Lust while reading it. SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Not least because you'd be Safe from Lust while reading it. Well, I've just read it during my tea break. I'm now not at all sure whether to change the menu for dinner tonight. Or what to do about my pension arrangements: "Retirement could be a time of boosted passion and marital discord." SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) In alt.usage.english, LFS wrote: >> In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: >>> *To my delight, I find it's reproduced at: >>> http://www.flaneur.org.uk/html/green/green.html >Well, I've just read it during my tea break. I'm now not at all sure >whether to change the menu for dinner tonight. Or what to do about my >pension arrangements: "Retirement could be a time of boosted passion >and marital discord." Crikey! (I first read that as "passion arrangements".) On the telly, discord fuels passion, though I can't say it has ever worked quite that way for me. SignatureV Vinny Burgoo <hnNULh@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > enjoyed it enough to give him a few pennies, or maybe even a shiny > sixpence. Wilson, Kepple and Betty. Betty was changed throughout Wilson and Kepple's career to keep her looking young as the men grew old. Wikipedia says they started their act in 1910, so your Leicester Square version is presumably later. I must mention the film "Mrs Henderson Presents" which was on TV over Christmas. Splendid English fare with Bob Hoskins with an accent which we rarely hear him use, and Judi Dench at her finest. A sand- dance act was portrayed during auditions for the Windmill Theatre. SignatureDavid ===== > Vinny Burgoo <hnNULh@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > which we rarely hear him use, and Judi Dench at her finest. A sand- > dance act was portrayed during auditions for the Windmill Theatre. Good, wasn't it? I saw it in the cinema - Mum announced that she wanted to see it. You can probably guess the bit at which we laughed the loudest. Neither of us is very ladylike. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > > I must mention the film "Mrs Henderson Presents" which was on TV over > > Christmas. Splendid English fare with Bob Hoskins with an accent [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to see it. You can probably guess the bit at which we laughed the > loudest. Neither of us is very ladylike. Lang may yer lums reek in that regard. SignatureDavid ===== > LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lang may yer lums reek in that regard. Yes; but, on a point of information, _was_ he? SignatureMike. Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > > LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes; but, on a point of information, _was_ he? I didn't look. SignatureDavid ===== > Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I didn't look. Hard to tell at that distance. (Sorry..) But quite possibly. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > > Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > But quite possibly. I failed to make myself clear. I only wanted to know if the real VD was Jewish. SignatureMike. >> > Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I failed to make myself clear. I only wanted to know if the real VD was >Jewish. Val Doonican? Vulcan Dupree? Vanessa Deadgrave? SignatureArchie Valparaiso > >> > Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: > >> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Val Doonican? Vulcan Dupree? Vanessa Deadgrave? Vin D'Mill. SignatureMike. >>>Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> had it: >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I failed to make myself clear. I only wanted to know if the real VD was > Jewish. I knew that but can't answer your question so thought I'd offer some amusing but unladylike banter instead. (Please, no spitting.) SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [...] > (Please, no spitting.) Even if I were to dream of it, since both my ex-wives and one of my daughters are "academics" (silly word, but let it pass) I wouldn't dare do it. SignatureMike. > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > daughters are "academics" (silly word, but let it pass) I wouldn't dare > do it. An assertive "Feh!" is more expressive, more sophisticated and more hygienic than expectoration, don't you think? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > > I failed to make myself clear. I only wanted to know if the real VD was > > Jewish. > > I knew that but can't answer your question so thought I'd offer some > amusing but unladylike banter instead. (Please, no spitting.) From the script, one assumes that he was, since he was distraught after reading that Hitler had rounded up the Dutch Jews. Signaturethe Omrud ========= > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > From the script, one assumes that he was, since he was distraught > after reading that Hitler had rounded up the Dutch Jews. Slightly better than being rounded down. SignatureRob Bannister > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > From the script, one assumes that he was, since he was distraught > after reading that Hitler had rounded up the Dutch Jews. I wouldn't rely on movie scripts for authenticity. For example, Shadowlands would have you believe that C.S. Lewis had only one stepson. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I wouldn't rely on movie scripts for authenticity. For example, > Shadowlands would have you believe that C.S. Lewis had only one stepson. True. Wiki says that he "came from a middle-class London family of Dutch Jewish origin", whatever that means. SignatureDavid ===== In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >Wilson, Kepple and Betty. Betty was changed throughout Wilson and >Kepple's career to keep her looking young as the men grew old. >Wikipedia says they started their act in 1910, so your Leicester >Square version is presumably later. Yes. Thinking about it, it was probably post-decimalization '70s, so I wouldn't have flipped him a tanner. (Unless I was being more than usually cheap.) SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > enjoyed it enough to give him a few pennies, or maybe even a shiny > sixpence. Yes, I do remember, though I fear I never paid for the privilege. Got to beat those idiots who paint themselves silver for no discernible. Surely Bulganin and Khrushchev, I mean Wilson & Keppel must have invented it? But perhaps it _had been_ dreamed up by Egyptians bent on extracting tourist pence: they're deeply ingenious in such matters. Looking for evidence in Wikip I find the toothsome news that 'Their "Cleopatra's Nightmare" routine was performed in 1936 in Berlin and condemned by Josef Goebbels as indecent.' SignatureMike. In alt.usage.english, Mike Lyle wrote: [...] >Looking for evidence in Wikip I find the toothsome news that 'Their >"Cleopatra's Nightmare" routine was performed in 1936 in Berlin and >condemned by Josef Goebbels as indecent.' That Josef had a very nice sensibility, did he not? SignatureV >Do you remember the chap who used to do the Eqyptian Sand Dance in >Leicester Square? It would probably be condemned as appallingly racist [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >enjoyed it enough to give him a few pennies, or maybe even a shiny >sixpence. What happened to Wilson -- lost in a sand storm? There was only one Wilson and one Keppel, but there were several Bettys. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: >What happened to Wilson -- lost in a sand storm? > >There was only one Wilson and one Keppel, but there were several >Bettys. Ah! I actually forgot Betty rather than Wilson, which is to say I thought there were only two of them and they were both men and one of the men was called Betty. SignatureV >In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >thought there were only two of them and they were both men and one of >the men was called Betty. The human memory seems to have a mind of its own sometimes. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >thought there were only two of them and they were both men and one of >the men was called Betty. What better way to celebrate the outcomes of your recent broadbanding action than with this rather fetching vid of all three strutting their funky stuff with the very act that gobsmacked Dr Goebbels: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pkhJpr2zR8s SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > funky stuff with the very act that gobsmacked Dr Goebbels: > http://youtube.com/watch?v=pkhJpr2zR8s Wonderful! There's something almost Pythonesque about them. Off at a tangent, you may have missed an excellent example of Rightpondian accountancy humour in the NYT recently: http://tinyurl.com/yzhuzx SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Off at a tangent, you may have missed an excellent example of > Rightpondian accountancy humour in the NYT recently: > > http://tinyurl.com/yzhuzx Excellent, but repeatedly rather sloppy on one issue, which I point out only as a professional courtesy, knowing (or at least suspecting) how devoted accounting accademics are to punctillous accuracy. "to the tune of O Little Town of Bethlehem" -- which tune? Either one of the two commonly used, I suppose. But then we oughtn't to say "_the_ tune". Ditto for "Away in a Manger", and it seems to me that there's another tune for "It Came Upon the Midnight Clear" other than CAROL, but I can't bring it to mind. As for "While Shepherds Watched", one could spend all twelve days of Christmas singing it, without repetition, hesitation, or deviation, to the tunes to which it has been sung at one time or another. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > "to the tune of O Little Town of Bethlehem" -- which tune? Either one of the > two commonly used, I suppose. But then we oughtn't to say "_the_ tune". Thanks to radio comedian Bob Rivers, there's now a third tune...it's the same one Eric Burdon used for "House of the Rising Sun".... (Sorry, Laura)....r >>Off at a tangent, you may have missed an excellent example of >>Rightpondian accountancy humour in the NYT recently: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > as a professional courtesy, knowing (or at least suspecting) how devoted > accounting accademics are to punctillous accuracy. > "to the tune of O Little Town of Bethlehem" -- which tune? Either one of the > two commonly used, I suppose. But then we oughtn't to say "_the_ tune". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Christmas singing it, without repetition, hesitation, or deviation, to the > tunes to which it has been sung at one time or another. Well, I only wanted to chip away at the accountant stereotype and, of course, I only know one tune to any of them anyway. However, Stella thanks you for your interest, points out that she is married to a church organist and agrees that she should have written "tunes" but observes that the verses fit any of them. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>Off at a tangent, you may have missed an excellent example of >>>Rightpondian accountancy humour in the NYT recently: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > organist and agrees that she should have written "tunes" but observes > that the verses fit any of them. Absolutely they do! Indeed, I am given to understand understand that Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing works, for the benefit of listeners who might find the concept of singing, say, "While Shepherds Watched" to the tune of "Yellow Rose of Texas" diffcult to grasp. ObAUE: Sorry, Laura. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>>Off at a tangent, you may have missed an excellent example of >>>>Rightpondian accountancy humour in the NYT recently: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > ObAUE: Sorry, Laura. Apology accepted. I assume you are referring to ISIHAC where this practice is regularly displayed by masters of the art. The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions "Yankee Doodle". The most entertainingly inappropriate versions for a synagogue setting that I have experienced have been Football Crazy (remember Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor?) and Tannenbaum. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Indeed, I am given to understand understand that >> Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Apology accepted. I assume you are referring to ISIHAC where this > practice is regularly displayed by masters of the art. Precisely. I've been an avid and regular listener ever since Radio 4 came on the Internet -- and now to the older broadcasts repeated on BBC 7. > The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, > can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions > "Yankee Doodle". Absolutely. Why should the nations[1] have all the fun? > The most entertainingly inappropriate versions for a > synagogue setting that I have experienced have been Football Crazy > (remember Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor?) Well, no. Does being American excuse me? > and Tannenbaum. Lessee... O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Wie treu sind deine Blätter! Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit, Nein, auch im Winter, wenn es schneit. O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Wie treu sind deine Blätter! O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Du kannst mir sehr gefallen! Wie oft hat schon zur Winterszeit Ein Baum von dir mich hoch erfreut! O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Du kannst mir sehr gefallen! O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Dein Kleid will mich was lehren: Die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit Gibt Mut und Kraft zu jeder Zeit! O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, Dein Kleid will mich was lehren! Nope, nothing there that would be inappropriate to a Sabbath service. Sweet little song about a fir tree and and a lesson we can draw from nature. The importance of hope and constancy, which instil courage and vitality. Good Jewish values. No tree-worship or anything unbecomming. Perhaps you know some different words, though. [1] when they aren't occupied in raging furiously together, that is. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: > > The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, > > can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions > > "Yankee Doodle". > > Absolutely. Why should the nations[1] have all the fun? ... > [1] when they aren't occupied in raging furiously together, that is. It seems to me that some of their population's time is spent imagining a vain thing. Why just the one? I've always wanted to know. SignatureDavid ===== >>>Indeed, I am given to understand understand that >>>Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Precisely. I've been an avid and regular listener ever since Radio 4 came > on the Internet -- and now to the older broadcasts repeated on BBC 7. I hope you cope better than my South African friend who puzzled over the rules for Mornington Crescent for several years and was astonished to discover the truth about Samantha. >>The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >>can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Well, no. Does being American excuse me? Certainly but Rightpondians of a certain age may remember them. (Robin? John?) >>and Tannenbaum. <snip words> > Nope, nothing there that would be inappropriate to a Sabbath service. Sweet > little song about a fir tree and and a lesson we can draw from nature. The > importance of hope and constancy, which instil courage and vitality. Good > Jewish values. No tree-worship or anything unbecomming. > > Perhaps you know some different words, though. On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O Christmas Tree" which is a common translation. Quite a few of the others thought they were being inveigled into singing the Internationale to which they had a political objection. I was laughing so much that I couldn't sing at all. [..] SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... > >>>Indeed, I am given to understand understand that > >>>Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > rules for Mornington Crescent for several years and was astonished to > discover the truth about Samantha. We kept Son ignorant about the rules of Mornington Crescent for perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for himself and that he would know when he'd worked it out. > >>The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, > >>can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Certainly but Rightpondians of a certain age may remember them. (Robin? > John?) I may not be of a certain age, but I certainly remember it and them. SignatureDavid ===== Gravity under Vista. Goodness. Works rather well. "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote : > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... >> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I may not be of a certain age, but I certainly remember it and them. Me too. Along with Cy Grant (was that 1950s tokenism?), and others. Cliff Michelmore, I believe, is still alive though rarely seen now. Same age as my mother. Philip > "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote : >> laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Philip Ho Yus. "Are you there, Jean?". "You cannae kick your Granny off a bus." I remember Cy Grant as a genuinely popular singer as well as an actor who appeared regular on TV and in films. Still going strong, too: http://www.cygrant.fsnet.co.uk/ SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for > himself and that he would know when he'd worked it out. There is no other way. Even in this day when every antiquarian bookseller in the known universe is on the web, copies of the rulebook prove remarkably difficult to get ahold of. It is also literally true to state that no version of the rulebook has ever been published that contains the details of every variation. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: > > We kept Son ignorant about the rules of Mornington Crescent for > > perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that no version of the rulebook has ever been published that contains the > details of every variation. The BBC made a two-part documentary about the game - Part One talks about the history and social aspects and Part Two explains the rules. But I keep missing Part Two. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. > my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > about the history and social aspects and Part Two explains the rules. > But I keep missing Part Two. I think there was some trouble with the rights clearances with the publishers of the rulebook. I don't think we'll be hearing a rebroadcast anytime soon. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > publishers of the rulebook. I don't think we'll be hearing a rebroadcast > anytime soon. By the way, I didn't mean to suggest that the publishers were being deliberately uncooperative. I think the Beeb may have had some trouble trying to contact them to clear the rights, however. Apparantly there's been some confusion about their current location and address. Such things happen all the time in the world of small-press publishing. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: > >> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > been some confusion about their current location and address. Such things > happen all the time in the world of small-press publishing. I thought I'd heard they were in Nidd. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. > my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>>> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>>>>> We kept Son ignorant about the rules of Mornington Crescent for >>>>>> perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I thought I'd heard they were in Nidd. No, they moved to Knid. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >been some confusion about their current location and address. Such things >happen all the time in the world of small-press publishing. Mrs Trellis of South Wales would know. She knows everybody. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Mrs Trellis of South Wales would know. She knows everybody. I have no doubt but that we shall be hearing from her shortly. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>> my.spamtrap@verizon.net had it: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Mrs Trellis of South Wales would know. She knows everybody. North Wales, Robin. They're very odd, up there. Mike SignatureM.J.Powell >laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for >himself and that he would know when he'd worked it out. I have been playing MC on and off (but never less than enthusiastically) for many decades, but I still consider myself to be an elementary-level player. I've managed to accumulate a reasonably serviceable raft of opening gambits over the years (yes, even the Vorster Oblique, if only after memorising the entire 1959 revisions), but I always seem to get bogged down during the diagonal development stages, leading inevitably to the humiliation of a triple-hex banjaxing -- usually, to my shame, while still stranded in foul territory north of Chalk Farm! -- before I can consolidate any kind of half-decent recapitulation. I presume this is quite common. SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it... >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for >>himself and that he would know when he'd worked it out. That will have done untold damage to his psyche. You may find yourself having to foot the bill for his therapy. > I have been playing MC on and off (but never less than > enthusiastically) for many decades, but I still consider myself to be [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I presume this is quite common. I have found that it is extremely difficult to find suitable players against whom one can test one's capabilities beyond elementary level. The older generation are often strategically adept but tend to be confused by routes new to them, such as the Jubilee Line and anything south of the river, while younger players rely on inspired leaps and then lose interest around Greenwich. I bet Mark Brader is a whizz at it. Tip: a parallel semi-reversed box-step will probably rescue you from north of Chalk Farm via Eastcote, as long as no-one else plays the Prescott Dispersal. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Archie Valparaiso wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > south of the river, while younger players rely on inspired leaps and > then lose interest around Greenwich. You think that's rough? Try getting up a game in Noo Jersey sometime! SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > >>We kept Son ignorant about the rules of Mornington Crescent for > >>perhaps 12 years. We simply repeated that he had to work it out for > >>himself and that he would know when he'd worked it out. > > That will have done untold damage to his psyche. You may find yourself > having to foot the bill for his therapy. No change there then. ... > I have found that it is extremely difficult to find suitable players > against whom one can test one's capabilities beyond elementary level. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > north of Chalk Farm via Eastcote, as long as no-one else plays the > Prescott Dispersal. Nine Elms Lane. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. >>> The most entertainingly inappropriate versions for a synagogue >>> setting that I have experienced have been Football Crazy [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Certainly but Rightpondians of a certain age may remember them. (Robin? > John?) I certainly remember seeing them on TV in my youth. I think they must have been on "Tonight", or something like that. Or perhaps that was Cy Grant. Fran >>>>Indeed, I am given to understand understand that >>>>Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O >Christmas Tree" which is a common translation. Just to reinforce that point -- the tune Tannenbaum is most widely recognised in the UK as that of the Christmas carol. > Quite a few of the others >thought they were being inveigled into singing the Internationale to >which they had a political objection. I was laughing so much that I >couldn't sing at all. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Just to reinforce that point -- the tune Tannenbaum is most widely > recognised in the UK as that of the Christmas carol. Depends how old you are. Some of us think of it as 'the theme from Citizen Smith', only later finding out that a) it wasn't made up and b) it has other words. (I do now know all three sets of words. And still have to be restrained from shouting 'Power to the People' at the end.) Jac >>On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O >>Christmas Tree" which is a common translation. > > Just to reinforce that point -- the tune Tannenbaum is most widely > recognised in the UK as that of the Christmas carol. In the US, too. (I was just stretching the point that the German lyrics don't actually mention Christmas directly -- that is, unless one sings "Weinachtszeit" [Chrismastime] instead of "Winterzeit" [wintertime].) It's also the tune for the state song of Maryland ("O Maryland, my Maryland"), better known for its tune than for its (remarkably outdated) words beyond the first line. >> Quite a few of the others >>thought they were being inveigled into singing the Internationale to >>which they had a political objection. Not the Internationale, The Red Flag. Could they not tell the difference? >>I was laughing so much that I couldn't sing at all. I would have been, too. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>>shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Not the Internationale, The Red Flag. Could they not tell the difference? That was my confusion - I wonder why I did that? Must be something to do with trying to deal with the layers of self-induced STS... >>>I was laughing so much that I couldn't sing at all. > > I would have been, too. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Peter Duncanson wrote: >>> On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>> shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > lyrics don't actually mention Christmas directly -- that is, unless > one sings "Weinachtszeit" [Chrismastime] instead of "Winterzeit" Weihnachtszeit > [wintertime].) SignatureSkitt Jes' fine >>>> On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Weihnachtszeit Oh, I don't know -- eight wines at Christmas seems about par for the course. Each course, of course. >> [wintertime].) SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > Skitt writes >>>>> On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>> [wintertime].) Eight seems a bit much. SignatureSkitt Wer kann das bezahlen, wer hat das bestellt ... } Paul Wolff wrote: }> Skitt writes }>> Roland Hutchinson wrote: }>>> Peter Duncanson wrote: }>>>> LFS wrote: } }>>>>> On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of }>>>>> }>>>>> shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this }>>>>> was "O Christmas Tree" which is a common translation. }>>>> Just to reinforce that point -- the tune Tannenbaum is most widely }>>>> recognised in the UK as that of the Christmas carol. }>>> In the US, too. (I was just stretching the point that the German }>>> lyrics don't actually mention Christmas directly -- that is, unless }>>> one sings "Weinachtszeit" [Chrismastime] instead of "Winterzeit" }>> }>> Weihnachtszeit }> }> Oh, I don't know -- eight wines at Christmas seems about par for the }> course. Each course, of course. }>> }>>> [wintertime].) } } Eight seems a bit much. Wenn es schneit. Signaturerjv "Weinachtszeit" [Chrismastime] instead of "Winterzeit" > Weihnachtszeit > >> [wintertime].) So stimmt's. (I'm even a wors typist in other languages than I am in English.) Unless you celebrate Wein-Achtszeit as an alternative, I suppose. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O >>Christmas Tree" which is a common translation. > >Just to reinforce that point -- the tune Tannenbaum is most widely >recognised in the UK as that of the Christmas carol. You think so? I'd have said most people in the UK, if they recognise it at all, associate it with TV images of the top ranks of the Labour Party failing to remember the words at the end of the annual conference. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > You think so? I'd have said most people in the UK, if they recognise > it at all, associate it with TV images of the top ranks of the Labour > Party failing to remember the words at the end of the annual > conference. I can't even manage that image now. Whenever I try, up pops the Vulcan not singing 'Land of My Fathers'. Philip Eden >>>On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>>shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Party failing to remember the words at the end of the annual >conference. I think I might need to backrack on my rather bald and unqwualified assertion. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>On the occasion when the tune was sung it was clear that some of the >>>>shocked faces in the congregation reflected the belief that this was "O [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I think I might need to backrack on my rather bald and unqwualified > assertion. I am indebted to Wikipedia for acquainting me with "The people's flag is palest pink", which had previously escaped my notice, despite the fact that some of my best friends in the UK are LibDems. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >I am indebted to Wikipedia for acquainting me with "The people's flag is >palest pink", which had previously escaped my notice, despite the fact that >some of my best friends in the UK are LibDems. Thanks for that. I was aware of the song, but couldn't remember more than the first two lines. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>Indeed, I am given to understand understand that >>>>Radio 4 regularly broadcasts explanations of how this sort of thing [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Certainly but Rightpondians of a certain age may remember them. (Robin? >John?) They ring a faint bell, but I think that its clapper is worn. It's times like these that I remember (vaguely) the one thing that my mother had in common with dear Bernard Levin, and that is that they both started developing Alzheimer's round about my current (certain) age. SignatureRobin Herts, England > Lessee... > > O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, > Wie treu sind deine Blätter! I learned that in Germany as "Wie grün sind deine Blätter." I notice that Wikipedia also has that version, not that it matters much. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >> Lessee... >> >> O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum, >> Wie treu sind deine Blätter! > >I learned that in Germany as "Wie grün sind deine Blätter." True. As it happened, I was given a song-sheet this Christmas with the 'treu' version, and wondered if my memory was faulty. But of course it isn't. >I notice that Wikipedia also has that version, not that it matters much. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >> Lessee... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I notice that Wikipedia also has that version, not that it matters much. All my German songbooks have "treu". I never did understand what it meant. SignatureRob Bannister > >> Lessee... > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > All my German songbooks have "treu". I never did understand what it meant. faithful as in: they don't fall off in autumn Robert SignatureWartna dir hilfi... >>>>Lessee... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > faithful as in: they don't fall off in autumn If my girlfriend (or servant if I had one) is being faithful, I don't take that to mean she won't fall off. I prefer to think of these loyal leaves as an enigma. SignatureRob Bannister > Nope, nothing there that would be inappropriate to a Sabbath service. Sweet > little song about a fir tree and and a lesson we can draw from nature. The > importance of hope and constancy, which instil courage and vitality. Good > Jewish values. No tree-worship or anything unbecomming. > > Perhaps you know some different words, though. Let cowards laugh and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here. and many others. SignatureRob Bannister >> Nope, nothing there that would be inappropriate to a Sabbath service. >> Sweet [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > and many others. A naval version started out: The working class Can kiss my arse I've got the buffer's job at last. (The buffer is the Chief Bosun's Mate and he's the ship's expert on seamanship and associated jobs. Note for LeftPondians: "class", "arse" and "last" are all pronounced the same. Cheers, Sage sage wrote, in <YGZnh.66356$gl2.10579@newsfe16.lga> on Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:23:52 -0500: > A naval version started out: > > The working class > Can kiss my arse > I've got the buffer's job at last. And continued: This comradeship is all a farce You can stick the red flag up your arse. I suspect that version, with variants on 'buffer' such as 'foreman' or 'boss', is the one that more people in the English-speaking world know the words of than any other using that tune. > (The buffer is the Chief Bosun's Mate and he's the ship's expert on > seamanship and associated jobs. > Note for LeftPondians: "class", "arse" and "last" are all pronounced the > same. "farce" too. SignatureNick Spalding >sage wrote, in <YGZnh.66356$gl2.10579@newsfe16.lga> > on Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:23:52 -0500: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >"farce" too. > The working class > Can kiss my arse > I've got the buffer's job at last. > > Note for LeftPondians: "class", "arse" and "last" are all pronounced the > same. Unless you're a Northern BrE speaker, in which case the damn thing doesn't rhyme (unless you substitute "a.s" for "arse", in which case it becomes rather AmE). Mike M >> The working class >> Can kiss my arse [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Mike M Even Northern BrE speakers sing it with the pronunciation I suggested ... because they know that's how the song is sung for proper effect, and any road up, we are bright enough to understand the subtleties of rhyme schemes. (Swinging the lamps, he continued, "I remember once, in Singers ... ." ) Cheers, Sage > The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, > can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions > "Yankee Doodle". The most entertainingly inappropriate versions for a > synagogue setting that I have experienced have been Football Crazy > (remember Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor?) and Tannenbaum. Right up there with the Pooh menorah I saw in a Disney store a few years back, with each of the lights held aloft by one of the characters (Pooh himself was the shammes, although perhaps Christopher Robin would have been more appropriate).... Piglet looked particularly uncomfortable....r >>The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >>can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Piglet looked particularly uncomfortable....r I think you made that up! SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) On 04 Jan 2007, LFS wrote >> On Jan 4, 12:11 am, LFS <l...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I think you made that up! Ummmm...nope: http://tinyurl.com/y45psl (which points to http://cgi.ebay.com/WINNIE-THE-POOH-JEWISH-MENORAH-ALL-CHARACTERS- DISNEY_W0QQitemZ320066738250QQihZ011QQcategoryZ146117QQssPageNameZW DVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: > On 04 Jan 2007, LFS wrote > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://tinyurl.com/y45psl Piglet looks happy enough - he knows he's not going to be eaten. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote in his sig > Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. I've been reading Vista-testers' experiences with interest; everything I've read so far has made me think that XP will probably be my last Windows OS. Have you found *any* features that would prompt you -- not the market, just you -- to make an unforced switch to Vista? (I've previously dabbled with Linux, and intend to do so a lot more seriously over the next little while. I made do with Win98 until about a year ago, though, so I've probably got a few years' before XP becomes so inconveniently outdated that I need to change.) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > (I've previously dabbled with Linux, and intend to do so a lot more > seriously over the next little while. Good man. (Also good to see that Linux was mentioned by one of the fellows on _Beauty and the Geek_ last night, not that I would watch that.) SignatureSalvatore Volatile On 04 Jan 2007, Salvatore Volatile wrote >> (I've previously dabbled with Linux, and intend to do so a lot >> more seriously over the next little while. > > Good man. It's going to take some organising, though. I had an unfortunate experience last summer with dual-booting with Ubuntu and XP -- Ubuntu upgraded, and decided not to recognise that I had any Windows partitions at all on the machine, and on a day when I needed to get to them to do some work -- and next time I want to do something like removable hard drives for each OS, rather than a dual-boot. > (Also good to see that Linux was mentioned by one of the fellows > on _Beauty and the Geek_ last night, not that I would watch > that.) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: > On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote in his sig > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > about a year ago, though, so I've probably got a few years' before XP > becomes so inconveniently outdated that I need to change.) I've only had RTM installed for a couple of days (Ultimate Vista, so I can check it all out) so it's difficult to say. I am irritated by the change to the appearance - I've got XP set up very cleanly with tiny images on my big screen, but I can't find any way of getting the Vista icons to get small and sharp - they look all huge and fuzzy. I could probably tell it to use the XP desktop form but it hasn't been at the top of my list. It's also extremely annoying to be interrupted by a blasted Big Brother box every time you want to do something it thinks might be slightly dangerous. I do like the Side Bar and Gadgets - there are plenty of gadgets available, and I like the way these become transparent so you can keep them on the screen without them taking over a portion of it. I was wondering about setting up a Media Centre PC based on Windows as my Tivo is getting old, and MCE functionality is integrated with Vista Ultimate, so I plan to test that out and see how it looks. But I have my eye on an excellent TV card and time shifting software which will run just as well under XP so it may be unnecessary to upgrade. I've set up my home PC so that I can switch between the two although I somehow failed to get the dual boot working so I have to tweak the BIOS every time I want to change OS. Never mind. I also took the opportunity to install Office 2007 Ultimate - that looks like more of an improvement. I've just started to play with Outlook 2007. But of course there's no need to go to Vista for that; I think I will put it on my work notebook and use it in anger. Gravity is a strange one - it worked fine for a few hours and now it seizes up after the first thread. I think the only thing I did was to install Office, which shouldn't interfere with Gravity. Perhaps I'll take it out and put it back in. The lack of a decent Usenet client is something which would actively stop me switching. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote > harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote in his sig [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I've only had RTM installed for a couple of days (Ultimate > Vista, so I can check it all out) so it's difficult to say. -snip initial views/insights- Thanks for that; very interesting. Do keep us geeky types posted now and then -- particularly if the Media Centre vs flashy-TV-card thing works out, or if you come across something that you start to think you'd really not want to work without. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: > On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > across something that you start to think you'd really not want to > work without. I need to mention that I pay the same (or possibly less) for Microsoft software as the rest of you lot pay for Linux, which makes my choice rather skewed. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote > harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Microsoft software as the rest of you lot pay for Linux, which > makes my choice rather skewed. Ah; thanks -- that does tend to have an impact...... SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Microsoft software as the rest of you lot pay for Linux, which makes >my choice rather skewed. Aren't both free? Oops. SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >>> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Aren't both free? Windows is the kind of cheap you can't afford. Kind of like a free car from a dottering relative. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>> harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >>>> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Windows is the kind of cheap you can't afford. Kind of like a free car from > a dottering relative. Dottering? Hmmm ... Cheers, Sage >> Archie Valparaiso wrote: >>> the Omrud wrought: >>>> I need to mention that I pay the same (or possibly less) for >>>> Microsoft software as the rest of you lot pay for Linux, which [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dottering? Hmmm ... A cross of doting and doddering? SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>>> the Omrud wrought: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > A cross of doting and doddering? It's that pesky AmE flap, come round to bite me while the spellcheck is on the fritz. "Doddering" it is, though the portmanteau is attractive. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: >> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Microsoft software as the rest of you lot pay for Linux, which makes >my choice rather skewed. Yabbut, that's just the price you paid. What was the cost you paid? Obaue - is this distinction clear in BritE, or is it something dreamed up by consultants on the left side of the pond to sound clever? Jitze couperus-eschew-this@znet.com had it: > >harvey.news@ntlworld.com had it: > >> On 04 Jan 2007, the Omrud wrote [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Yabbut, that's just the price you paid. What was the cost you paid? Just in case it's not clear - I didn't pay for the software, but somebody did. The cost is measured in my own time, although I would be justified in playing with it in my employer's time since it is one of my responsibilities to be well informed about such things. > Obaue - is this distinction clear in BritE, or is it something dreamed > up by consultants on the left side of the pond to sound clever? I think the difference is clear but I would only notice it in sentences like yours where both cost and price were mentioned. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. >>>The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >>>can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think you made that up! You can't make stuff like that up. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. LFS filted: >> Right up there with the Pooh menorah I saw in a Disney store a few >> years back, with each of the lights held aloft by one of the characters [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I think you made that up! No, as Harv and company have since illustrated (I'm having a lot of trouble getting here for about a week now; my Usenet provider did a "two-day upgrade" that's still not going well on day nine).... I also didn't make this up: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/hello-kitty/ ....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >> The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >> can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Piglet looked particularly uncomfortable....r And as for the Gefilte Nemo.... SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>> The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >>> can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And as for the Gefilte Nemo.... Nemo's not a gefilte; he's a clownfish. The gefilte, as you undoubtedly know, is a freshwater fish -- at least until it gets into the broth. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>>The words of "Adon Olam", the final hymn of the Sabbath morning service, >>>>can be sung to many tunes. I see that the Wiki entry on it mentions [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The gefilte, as you undoubtedly know, is a freshwater fish -- at least until > it gets into the broth. I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing Son from bidding for the wretched thing, having foolishly sent him the link Harvey posted... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty >about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing >Son from bidding for the wretched thing, having foolishly sent him the >link Harvey posted... Blimey! Can't you suggest better things he could do with eighty bucks? SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty >>about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Blimey! Can't you suggest better things he could do with eighty > bucks? Unfortunately, I can. Otherwise I'd bid on it myself. It's cute, in an odd sort of way. I like the hunny-pot motif for the candle holders. And have you noticed that if you squint your eyes in the dim candlelight, Tigger appears to be a dead ringer for Chagall's Rabbi? Surely an item that no Jewish home with a sense of irony can be considered complete be without! SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty >>>about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Surely an item that no Jewish home with a sense of irony can be considered > complete be without! Dammit, I'll be bidding myself shortly. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty >>>>about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> sort of way. I like the hunny-pot motif for the candle holders. And >> have you noticed that if you squint your eyes in the dim candlelight, Upon reflection, I have to withdraw this suggestion, since of course it would not be proper, and I certainly hope that no one would be led to do this by my earlier posting -- at least not during Hanukah. The Hanukah menorah should not be used as the main source of light in a room; there should be another source of light sufficient to ensure that the menorah isn't being used as utilitarian lighting. >> Tigger appears to be a dead ringer for Chagall's Rabbi? So just squint a little more. The resemblance is still striking. >> Surely an item that no Jewish home with a sense of irony can be >> considered complete be without! > > Dammit, I'll be bidding myself shortly. We shall await photos of it it use next year. Such a fine ritual object should be used for the edifying purpose for which it was intended, not locked a way in some sterile museum of Poohiana. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>I'm sure I should be able to some up with soemthing devastatingly witty >>about carping or getting stuffed but I'm now preoccupied with preventing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Blimey! Can't you suggest better things he could do with eighty >bucks? Especially for Disney Pooh, an abomination to those of us brought up on the real thing. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >Especially for Disney Pooh, an abomination to those of us brought up >on the real thing. Yeah, and what's that blue critter on the right? No lawful denizen of a self-respecting English wood he. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote: >What better way to celebrate the outcomes of your recent broadbanding >action than with this rather fetching vid of all three strutting their >funky stuff with the very act that gobsmacked Dr Goebbels: >http://youtube.com/watch?v=pkhJpr2zR8s Thank you! I never knew YouTube was such a cutting-edge infomediary for whiteboarded user-centric deliverables. I'll be benchmarking end-to-end eyeballs with this mission-critical new paradigm, and no mistake. (I always wondered why non-P2Pers might need more than a 2Gb monthly download allowance. And now I know. Oh well. The account's nice and cheap.) SignatureV Bullshit reintermediated by: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html >>>> I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We >>>> took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the Passion Proteins bloke: I bought his pamphlet*, and, though ants > aren't specifically fingered, I'm sure they're highly proteinaceous. Ah, I ate some chocolate-covered ants in 1959. My roommate and I were throwing a party and offering several unusual delicacies to go with the vodka gimlets served from a punchbowl in tall glasses. I don't remember much about the party, but I know that the roasted grasshoppers were extremely crunchy. SignatureSkitt Jes' fine >I ate some chocolate-covered ants in 1959. My roommate and I were >throwing a party and offering several unusual delicacies to go with the >vodka gimlets served from a punchbowl in tall glasses. Was I the only one expecting "throwing" to be followed not by "a party" but by "up for days afterwards"? SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>I ate some chocolate-covered ants in 1959. My roommate and I were >>throwing a party and offering several unusual delicacies to go with the >>vodka gimlets served from a punchbowl in tall glasses. > > Was I the only one expecting "throwing" to be followed not by "a > party" but by "up for days afterwards"? Yes. Your version makes no sense since, in the account given, the party precedes the unusual delicacies. Honestly, Archie, get a grip - anyone would think you were an academic. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) In alt.usage.english, Skitt wrote: >Ah, I ate some chocolate-covered ants in 1959. My roommate and I were >throwing a party and offering several unusual delicacies to go with the >vodka gimlets served from a punchbowl in tall glasses. I don't >remember much about the party, but I know that the roasted grasshoppers >were extremely crunchy. My sister threw a crunchy-insect party for the new millennium. She got a friend who was then an importer of African vegetables (thanks to Comrade Bob, he's now in "independent financial advice" or some other godawful racket) to import all sorts of Zimbabwean delicacies - maggots, grasshoppers, termites and what have you. I didn't go but I wish I had now. It wasn't the insects that kept me away, it was the throng - but what's an hour or two of noise and small-talk when you've got the chance to eat maggots? SignatureV Have you just had an op or something? > Well, my father got us some chocolate-coated ants one Christmas; but > they were Japanese. And stale. The Shaftesbury Ave man can't have been [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "This booklet would benefit more, if it were read occasionally." I remember the Passions man; I saw him frequently when we first lived in London. It was a while before I realised that he was suggesting that we cut down on protein. Fran >> Well, my father got us some chocolate-coated ants one Christmas; but >> they were Japanese. And stale. The Shaftesbury Ave man can't have been [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >London. It was a while before I realised that he was suggesting that we >cut down on protein. Huh? "LESS PASSION FROM LESS PROTEIN: LESS FISH, MEAT, BIRD, CHEESE, EGG PEAS, BEANS, NUTS, SITTING, " said his sandwich board. Did you think he was complaining about being shortchanged and wanted more? SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>>Well, my father got us some chocolate-coated ants one Christmas; but >>>they were Japanese. And stale. The Shaftesbury Ave man can't have been [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Did you think he was complaining about being shortchanged and wanted > more? I don't know that I thought he was complaining; I just thought he was warning of the dangers of cutting down on protein. I was much younger then. Fran > In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > - you'd sit it on your lap and pick at it. Can either of these things > have been true?) They used to sell chocolate covered ants in a shop in the Covered Market in Oxford in the 1950s - at least, they had tins of them on display. Last time I was in Selfridges I noticed all sorts of rather nasty chocolate-covered beasties on sale in the confectionery department. The sheep's head sounds vile but I wonder if it would be worse to sit next to one than next to my mum's friend who used to eat celery sticks in the cinema. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) In alt.usage.english, LFS wrote: >The sheep's head sounds vile but I wonder if it would be worse to sit next >to one than next to my mum's friend who used to eat celery sticks in the >cinema. It depends how whiffy it was, I suppose. Also how much grease got spattered on the seats. I had a look online to see if I could find anything about sheep heads (note the cunning way I am avoiding the Apostrophization Conundrum) in Sussex cinemas. No luck, but I did find this wacky Australian reminiscence: I can remember boiled sheep's head being turned into potted meat. Dad would always pop the eyes in the fridge "to see us through the week" gross! SignatureV >I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We >took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or >since) that I ever saw a Wendy's in the UK, and I am partial to their >hamburgery comestibles. Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free drink refills and "all you can eat" dessert bar. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which > was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free > drink refills and "all you can eat" dessert bar. There seems to be something distinctly un-British about such goings-on, at least for those days. SignatureRob Bannister >> Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which >> was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free >> drink refills and "all you can eat" dessert bar. > >There seems to be something distinctly un-British about such goings-on, >at least for those days. Which of those days are we discussing? I remember at the end of the 1960s there were quite a few carveries where you could eat as much as you could manage for a fixed price. The early ones allowed you to go round the meat courses as many times as you wanted to, but they quickly learned to limit that to one, piled-up plate. In the mid-eighties the Hilton on Park Lane had as its standard Sunday lunch an eat-all-you-can buffet containing breakfast thingies (including devilled kidneys and kippers), many roasts and cooked lunches, and a fabulous selection of desserts. The price at that time was £11, which was a little more than the price for as much dim sum as you could eat, in Chinatown. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which >>>was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > was £11, which was a little more than the price for as much dim sum as > you could eat, in Chinatown. We obviously ate in different places. I certainly don't remember carveries like that. I imagine they were very expensive. Mind you, these were the days of a curry, followed by 8 or so pints of beer, followed by another curry on the way home. There was a really disgusting curry place in Bethnal Green that was open till 2 am. As for the Hilton, I never set foot in one until I got to Australia, by which time, there were lots of eat all you can places. SignatureRob Bannister >>> Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which >>> was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >1960s there were quite a few carveries where you could eat as much as >you could manage for a fixed price. Not just carveries. The place I particularly remember from the 60s was The Guinea & the Piggy in Leicester Square. It did a turmeric rice dish which in those days I thought was the height of sophistication. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ woodavens@askjennison.com had it: > >>> Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which > >>> was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > rice dish which in those days I thought was the height of > sophistication. Did it have sultanas in it? SignatureDavid ===== >woodavens@askjennison.com had it: >> Not just carveries. The place I particularly remember from the 60s >> was The Guinea & the Piggy in Leicester Square. It did a turmeric >> rice dish which in those days I thought was the height of >> sophistication. > >Did it have sultanas in it? You remember it? No, impossible, you're far too young. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ woodavens@askjennison.com had it... > >woodavens@askjennison.com had it: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You remember it? No, impossible, you're far too young. Certainly not. In any case, London was a far dream from Warwickshire in the 60s. I think I went there two or three times before I was 18. No, it's just familiarity with the type of cuisine. SignatureDavid ===== Gravity under Vista. Goodness. Works rather well. > woodavens@askjennison.com had it... >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > in the 60s. I think I went there two or three times before I was 18. > No, it's just familiarity with the type of cuisine. We must also entertain the possibility that it in fact _was_ the height of sophistication in those days. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > > woodavens@askjennison.com had it... > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > We must also entertain the possibility that it in fact _was_ the height of > sophistication in those days. It was. Let us not forget M Caine recommending Vesta packet curries in (probably) _The Ipcress File_: he said they were "very good", and we all agreed with him, FCS! And I think I'd already been to Veeraswamy's or some such, so I should have known better: that I didn't know better speaks vols for the altitude of our sophistication. SignatureMike. >> > woodavens@askjennison.com had it... >> >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >or some such, so I should have known better: that I didn't know better >speaks vols for the altitude of our sophistication. Vesta curries were at their most delicious washed down with a delicious glass of lukewarm Blue Nun. SignatureArchie Valparaiso gguiri@yahoo.com had it: > Vesta curries were at their most delicious washed down with a > delicious glass of lukewarm Blue Nun. Double Diamond, Shirley (I believe it works wonders). Oops, sorry again Laura. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. > gguiri@yahoo.com had it: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Oops, sorry again Laura. Ah, and that automatically leads to "1001 cleans a big, big carpet, for less than half a crown". 12.5p. What can you clean for that these days? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> gguiri@yahoo.com had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Ah, and that automatically leads to "1001 cleans a big, big carpet, for > less than half a crown". 12.5p. What can you clean for that these days? Your teeth? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>>woodavens@askjennison.com had it... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Vesta curries were at their most delicious washed down with a > delicious glass of lukewarm Blue Nun. Mateus Rose, Shirley? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>>woodavens@askjennison.com had it... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Mateus Rose, Shirley? Possibly, but if an attempt was to be made at eventual seduction, then a Vesta Curry accompanied by a Babycham was the epitome of suave and debonair. I well remember an evening of dance at the local palais followed by such meal a deux at my flat (hah!) in Bayswater. Prepared on a single hob - a feat of which I was duly proud. Then carefully arranged to have Sinatra (Strangers in the night) going on the Dansette gramophone. Set the stage as it were. Then just as the critical negotiations were about to commence, a most frightful attack of the collywobbles. Not sure if this was triggered by the cuisine, Sinatra, or other nerve-inducing factors. Suffice it to say all ardor was dampened by this development and we never did get as far as the beast with two backs. Also she had to leave in time to catch the tube to be back at the nurses home before midnight. Only later did I learn that a full-fledged DWE was probably a better bet. Jitze > Mateus Rose, Shirley? Wow! That was the height of sophistication. Loved the shape of the bottle, but I was confused by the normal pronunciation "ma-tyooss". SignatureRob Bannister >>>>Oooh, I loved Wendy's. Watford had a Wendy's and a Ponderosa, which >>>>was the first place I saw an "all you can eat" salad bar. Also, free [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > rice dish which in those days I thought was the height of > sophistication. Don't remember that. There was Lyons Corner House a little way off and a coffee shop on the corner of Leic. Square and Coventry Street, but I don't remember Guinea & Piggy. Come to think of it, the only "carvery" (strange word) I remember was in the Villiers near Charing Cross, and that was not exactly cheap. SignatureRob Bannister >I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. I had a godfather who lived in Watford. This may not count, because I don't remember ever visiting him there: he used to come and visit us. But I always associated him with Watford, because that's where I addressed the Thank-you letters. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >since) that I ever saw a Wendy's in the UK, and I am partial to their >hamburgery comestibles. Are you sure? There used to be a Wimpey's hamburger chainn in then UK. irwell <hook@yahoo.com> had it: > >I have been to Watford once - it must have been 20 years ago. We > >took Daughter to a Wendy's, since it was the only place (then or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Are you sure? There used to be a Wimpey's hamburger chainn in then > UK. Am I sure about what? I am sure that I never saw another Wendy's in the UK (I liked them when I was in the US as a teenager and would have noticed any stores at home). I visited one in Prague in 1997. Or was it Budapest in 1999? And sure, there was and still is a Wimpey chain here, but I don't connect Wendy's with Wimpey. SignatureDavid ===== > Am I sure about what? I am sure that I never saw another Wendy's in > the UK (I liked them when I was in the US as a teenager and would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And sure, there was and still is a Wimpey chain here, but I don't > connect Wendy's with Wimpey. There definitely used to be a Wendy's in either Leeds or Bradford (my memory fails me as to the exact location). Am I right in my belief that they produced *square* hamburgers? Wimpeys used to be ubiquitous, but in recent years I have only seen them in small seaside towns (there's one in Tenby, for example). I'm a fairly keen carnivore, but Wimpeys did an excellent spicy bean burger. Mike M mikmooney@googlemail.com had it: > > Am I sure about what? I am sure that I never saw another Wendy's in > > the UK (I liked them when I was in the US as a teenager and would [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > them in small seaside towns (there's one in Tenby, for example). I'm a > fairly keen carnivore, but Wimpeys did an excellent spicy bean burger. Wimpeys are still found at some motorway service stations. SignatureDavid ===== > There definitely used to be a Wendy's in either Leeds or Bradford (my > memory fails me as to the exact location). Am I right in my belief that > they produced *square* hamburgers? Yes, and relatively large ones at that (in contrast to, say, White Castle, an ancient (older than McDonald's) but still-alive fast-food chain that produces very small square hamburgers). Wendy's originally competed with big McDonald's and big Burger King by portraying itself as a purveyor of "old-fashioned" hamburgers (I'm not sure, but they may still display that slogan). The only thing about them that appeared to be old-fashioned was the use of square hamburger patties. I'm not at all sure that square hamburgers *do* predate round ones, but by the late postwar era that was assumed by many to be a fact. SignatureSalvatore Volatile me@privacy.net had it: > > There definitely used to be a Wendy's in either Leeds or Bradford (my > > memory fails me as to the exact location). Am I right in my belief that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > an ancient (older than McDonald's) but still-alive fast-food chain that > produces very small square hamburgers). Ah yes. We used to order them by the dozen. Don't think I could do that now. > Wendy's originally competed with big McDonald's and big Burger King by > portraying itself as a purveyor of "old-fashioned" hamburgers (I'm not > sure, but they may still display that slogan). The only thing about them > that appeared to be old-fashioned was the use of square hamburger patties. > I'm not at all sure that square hamburgers *do* predate round ones, but by > the late postwar era that was assumed by many to be a fact. And they made a point of the fact that their burgers were freshly made, rather than delivered ready-made and frozen. SignatureDavid ===== >> Am I sure about what? I am sure that I never saw another Wendy's in >> the UK (I liked them when I was in the US as a teenager and would [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >memory fails me as to the exact location). Am I right in my belief that >they produced *square* hamburgers? The hamburger patties at both Wendy's and White Castle are square. I was trying to remember if Steak n Shake also served square patties, but the Wiki site says they are "hockey puck shaped". I suppose that does describe hamburger patties better than "round". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >it who made me drive all the way to Watford to buy a half a pound of >tomatoes?" surfaced whenever they had a difference of opinion. That might, with a stretch, be described as "a longstanding family connection" with Watford. Would I be right in assuming that your Mum gave your Dad the benefit of the full sentence on all occasions rather than simply saying "Watford" in an accusing tone of voice? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > of the full sentence on all occasions rather than simply saying > "Watford" in an accusing tone of voice? Other way round, Dad reminding Mum. She OTOH had two cryptic questions to remind him of fraught driving experiences: "35 miles to Carlisle?" (which I never fully understood because whatever happened took place before I was born but it apparently turned out to be a great deal further than 35 miles from Somewhere to Carlisle) and "Navigating by the sun?" (an occasion when Dad would not admit that he was lost and insisted that the very roundabout route he appeared to be taking was perfectly rational because he was so doing). SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >Other way round, Dad reminding Mum. Oops. Sorry. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>I used to live (from 1946) on the edge of Watford (the Cassiobury >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You, Linz ("Amethyst Deceiver") and me. Well, I never acksherly lived there - but I did commute there for a while from Harlesden (Willesden Junction to Watford on the Bakerloo) during part of my apprenticeship with Post Office Research - they had a facility close to Watford which was a branch of the main organization based in Dollis Hill. I would be picked up at the station and be taken there in a sort of Dormobile [1] van with the windows painted over, so I never knew exactly where it was. A rum outfit if you get my drift. [1] This term has I think become generic over the years to mean almost any sort of small camper van - but it used to be a specific model of a Bedford, and that is what I refer to here. Jitze >>>For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, >>>also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > radio and TV shows: ITMA, Much-Binding-In-The-Marsh, The Charlie > Farnsbarns Show, etc. In his later years, I used to sometimes see Sam travelling on the Metropolitan Line when I boarded at Wembley Park on my way to work in the City. Steve Race lived at the bottom of our road then. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter, >>also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Somewhere on the old A1 north of Watford, there's Dancer's Hill on the right > and Trotter's Bottom on the left. I rather like the Oxfordshire Baldons, Toot and Marsh - they sound to me like the sort of lively couple who would enjoy a party. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower >>> Slaughter, also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I rather like the Oxfordshire Baldons, Toot and Marsh - they sound to > me like the sort of lively couple who would enjoy a party. Rah-ther. (Loved her, hated him). Ditto the Nortons - Brize and Hook. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower >>>>Slaughter, also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Rah-ther. (Loved her, hated him). Ditto the Nortons - Brize and Hook. I've never really got on with Brize - too Leftpondian, dare I say it. As for Hook, he's a bit too fond of the beer, don't you think? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>> For bizarre place names, don't forget Upper Slaughter and Lower >>>>> Slaughter, also in Gloucestershire. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I've never really got on with Brize - too Leftpondian, dare I say it. > As for Hook, he's a bit too fond of the beer, don't you think? Indeed. I always found him a little Brightwell-cum-Sotwell though he tried to represent himself as Horton-cum-Studley. Do you think there was any truth in the rumour that she was closer than she should be to Carterton, the bodger? And they do say he was one of Stanton Harcourt's by-blows. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford [...] > >>> I rather like the Oxfordshire Baldons, Toot and Marsh - they sound > >>> to me like the sort of lively couple who would enjoy a party. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in the rumour that she was closer than she should be to Carterton, the > bodger? And they do say he was one of Stanton Harcourt's by-blows. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Greens: enormous fun, but only if one's in the mood. Whistley can be embarrassing in company, but Cockpole always stands out, and I'm reliably informed that Littlewick is anything but. Which, the whisper goes, Emmer found Stud wasn't. SignatureMike. > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cockpole always stands out, and I'm reliably informed that Littlewick > is anything but. Which, the whisper goes, Emmer found Stud wasn't. Pitch, Holly and Skittle are always up for a game but there's almost as many Greens as there are Ends, and they are a *very* miserable crowd. Mind you, I have a fondness for Poffley. The rather more sophisticated Duntisbournes are out your way, I believe. Leer's a bit of a DOM but Middle, Abbots and Rouse are worthy types. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) In alt.usage.english, LFS wrote: >The rather more sophisticated Duntisbournes are out your way, I >believe. Leer's a bit of a DOM but Middle, Abbots and Rouse are worthy >types. As are Mary and Peter Tavy. Very good with difficult children, and they make a marvellous damson chutney. SignatureV >I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Greens: enormous fun, but >only if one's in the mood. Whistley can be embarrassing in company, but >Cockpole always stands out, and I'm reliably informed that Littlewick >is anything but. Which, the whisper goes, Emmer found Stud wasn't. If you're thinking of that Stud that hangs around Maidenhead, then it's one of those names that aren't what they seem -- back in the days when people believed in themselves rather than in what they read on signposts and maps, it was Sturt. And still is, say I. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > >I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Greens: enormous fun, but > >only if one's in the mood. Whistley can be embarrassing in company, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > people believed in themselves rather than in what they read on signposts > and maps, it was Sturt. And still is, say I. That so? I'll accept a tip from the stable: so "sturt" for _steort_, a projecting strip of land, not _stod_, a herd of horses. SignatureMike. > > >I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Greens: enormous fun, but > > >only if one's in the mood. Whistley can be embarrassing in company, but [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > That so? I'll accept a tip from the stable: so "sturt" for _steort_, a > projecting strip of land, not _stod_, a herd of horses. This reminds me of a German comedy programme of the 70s that had acress Evelyn Hamann as an announcer for an English drama series Watch her fail on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAsyq8ikdQc She's trying to give an overview over the past seven episodes. Dont mind the German, just listen to English names and (fictitious?) placenames. The parts were originally spread throughout the show as "takes" of the recording of the "announcement". Robert SignatureWartna dir hilfi... In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: >This reminds me of a German comedy programme of the 70s that had acress >Evelyn Hamann as an announcer for an English drama series [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >The parts were originally spread throughout the show as "takes" of the >recording of the "announcement". Nice wig! And doesn't she breathe well? SignatureV Hey, it was late when I watched it. And I couldn't find the protein pamphlet. >In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Nice wig! And doesn't she breathe well? She does. She must be credited with pronouncing "Meredith" reliably, albeit with a Welsh intonation. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > She must be credited with pronouncing "Meredith" reliably, > albeit with a Welsh intonation. Ohh, there's echoey, isn't it. (Sorry, just posted the same comment, but later). SignatureWH > In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nice wig! And doesn't she breathe well? Well, at least she pronounced "Meredydd" correctly. SignatureWH >> In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Well, at least she pronounced "Meredydd" correctly. Nah, she said "Meredyth". SignatureRay UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 990 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it: > >> In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Nah, she said "Meredyth". Er, yes. SignatureDavid ===== > mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it: >> >> In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Er, yes. Meredyth and Meredydd (Meredudd) are pronounced differently. th - unvoiced th dd - voiced th SignatureRay UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 997 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it: > > mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it: > >> > Well, at least she pronounced "Meredydd" correctly. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > th - unvoiced th > dd - voiced th Ah. I wasn't paying enough attention to notice, even if I'd known the difference. SignatureDavid ===== Nope. Gravity under Vista got worse. Back to XP. > > mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it: > >> >> In alt.usage.english, Robert wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > th - unvoiced th > dd - voiced th I listened again, and you are absolutely correct, Sir. But she certainly got the stress pattern right (or nearly right), which is a rarity for true English speakers. SignatureWH > > I've never really got on with Brize - too Leftpondian, dare I say it. > > As for Hook, he's a bit too fond of the beer, don't you think? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the rumour that she was closer than she should be to Carterton, the > bodger? And they do say he was one of Stanton Harcourt's by-blows. Very Bovey Tracey, by all accounts, that one. I like the Winterbournes - dozens of them it feels like, Zelston, Abbas, Gunner, Earls, and the Matravers - Lytchett, Worth, Langton. Jac >>I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >>"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >share, I think. And Sandy Beds (though it really qualifies for a comma >to separate the town from its county) deserves a mention. Dorset has the best placenames. Apart from the Piddles, there are Punknowle, Ryme Intrinseca, Droop, Poxwell, Gussage St. Michael, Toller Porcorum and Badbury. But my favorite is just across the border in Wiltshire - Snailcreep Hanging. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>>I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >>>"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Toller Porcorum and Badbury. But my favorite is just across the border >in Wiltshire - Snailcreep Hanging. Clunton and Clunbury Clungunford and Clun Are the quietest places under the sun.. A.E.Housman. >>Ah, the magic of placenames! There is a whole family of Wallops in >>Hampshire - Nether, Middle and Over, in ascending order, though cities [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Toller Porcorum and Badbury. But my favorite is just across the border >in Wiltshire - Snailcreep Hanging. Not far from me we have Shade, Friendly, Bog Eggs, Dick Ing, Bottoms and Shelf. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>Ah, the magic of placenames! There is a whole family of Wallops in >>>Hampshire - Nether, Middle and Over, in ascending order, though cities [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Not far from me we have Shade, Friendly, Bog Eggs, Dick Ing, Bottoms >and Shelf. And Slack Bottom. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>Not far from me we have Shade, Friendly, Bog Eggs, Dick Ing, Bottoms >>and Shelf. > >And Slack Bottom. Yes, but the doctor's been informed. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Not far from me we have Shade, Friendly, Bog Eggs, Dick Ing, Bottoms > and Shelf. We like the sign for Lumbutts and Mankinholes when we get near your house. Jac >> Not far from me we have Shade, Friendly, Bog Eggs, Dick Ing, Bottoms >> and Shelf. > >We like the sign for Lumbutts and Mankinholes when we get near your >house. I was going to mention them, but thought I might be the only person to think them funny. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > The Piddles in Daarset would surely feature, Is there a Piddle on Avon? Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > > The Piddles in Daarset would surely feature, > > Is there a Piddle on Avon? Wyre Piddle is on the Avon. I have sailed on the river from the sailing club which is (was?) known as "Wyre Sailing Club". Boring. However, the Wyre Piddle Brewery makes an ale named "Piddle in the Hole". Less boring. SignatureDavid ===== > Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > > > The Piddles in Daarset would surely feature, > > Is there a Piddle on Avon? > Wyre Piddle is on the Avon. Would you say "Stratford on Avon", but "Wyre Piddle on the Avon"? How do you choose whether or not to include the "the"? Stratford is on the Avon, is it not? So why no "the" in "Stratford on Avon"? Just curious. > I have sailed on the river from the > sailing club which is (was?) known as "Wyre Sailing Club". Boring. > However, the Wyre Piddle Brewery makes an ale named "Piddle in the > Hole". Less boring. There used to be a winery in Buellton, California, that used a picture of a horse as a logo and "at the sign of the horse" as a colophon. One guide to wineries that I saw remarked something like "They'd better make really good wine to avoid becoming the brunt of rustic jokes". [...] > > Wyre Piddle is on the Avon. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Stratford is on the Avon, is it not? So why no "the" in > "Stratford on Avon"? [...] Most "X preposition Y" names seem to have no article, but there are some, such as Widecombe in the Moor ("Tom Pearce, Tom Pearce, lend me thy grey mare . . .") and Wells-next-the-Sea. At first I didn't think there was any kind of rule, but those examples suggest "the" is often retained when the feature isn't given its name: Moreton-in-Marsh is a counter-example. Better memories than mine or more dedicated searchers than me may be able to supply more data. The Oxford book says Wyre Piddle is on the Piddle, as well as the Avon; but I don't think there's a rule for dropping the "on", either. The Norman-French article "le" is sometimes used instead of a preposition in placenames such as Welton le Marsh, Welton le Wold, and Newton-le-Willows. For her own reasons my youngest girl refers to two of her haunts as "Chelt-on-Ham" and "Swan-on-Sea". I'll let you know if she starts speaking of "L-on-Don". SignatureMike. >[...] >> > Wyre Piddle is on the Avon. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >"Chelt-on-Ham" and "Swan-on-Sea". I'll let you know if she starts >speaking of "L-on-Don". There is a small town in California called Coalinga, sounds like an African name, it is a contraction for Coaling Station 'A', famous for being wiped out in a severe earthquake a few years ago. > [...] > > > Wyre Piddle is on the Avon. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > counter-example. Better memories than mine or more dedicated searchers > than me may be able to supply more data. [...] On thinking about it, and subject to correction by better Anglists, I think Old English treated river names like other proper names, and that our practice of giving them a definite article is more recent. The unarticled form was certainly commonplace in literary language as late as the 19C, and I've sometimes found it in present-day writing about fishing. Note, too, that rivers don't get an article in modern Welsh, and presumably didn't in "old British". In that light, it's "Stratford on _the_ Avon" which would be surprising. SignatureMike. Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > > Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Would you say "Stratford on Avon" Yes, because that's the name of the town. Like "Weston-super-Mare" or "Newcastle-under-Lyne". > but "Wyre Piddle on the Avon"? Not really. The name of the town is "Wyre Piddle", and it's on the Avon, so it could be "Wyre Piddle, on the Avon", but "on the Avon" is descriptive, such as "Daresbury, near Warrington", and not part of the town's name. > How do you choose whether or not to include the "the"? Most place names which include a geographic feature don't have the article. But you choose by knowing the name of the place, rather than by working it out. > Stratford is on the Avon, is it not? So why no "the" in > "Stratford on Avon"? Simply because that's its name. > Just curious. SignatureDavid ===== >> Would you say "Stratford on Avon" > >Yes, because that's the name of the town. Like "Weston-super-Mare" except that I thought it was Stratford upon Avon. Weston is a counterexample to someone else's hypothesis, since the sea in question is not given its name. Katy K. Edgcombe <ke10@cus.cam.ac.uk> had it: > >> Would you say "Stratford on Avon" > > > >Yes, because that's the name of the town. Like "Weston-super-Mare" > > except that I thought it was Stratford upon Avon. Ah, so it is. I was concentrating on the other part of the question </wriggle> > Weston is a counterexample to someone else's hypothesis, since the sea in > question is not given its name. I wondered if "Mare" ought to be capitalised so I guessed, but I see that the council does so. SignatureDavid ===== > >> Would you say "Stratford on Avon" > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Weston is a counterexample to someone else's hypothesis, since the sea in > question is not given its name. The hypothesis was mine; and Latin doesn't count, since formally it doesn't have a definite article. I raise you Gringley on the Hill and Higham ditto. But I cheerfully concede Frinton on Sea, Shoreham by Sea, and many others, adding them to my own Moreton-in-Marsh. If we hadn't been discussing radio comedy in another thread, perhaps I'd have tried to smuggle in Much - two, three, four - Binding in the Marsh. SignatureMike. > Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> (Snip) Newcastle-under-Lyme akshlly. Cheers,Sage sage <sage@allstream.net> had it: > > Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > Newcastle-under-Lyme akshlly. Ar. SignatureDavid ===== "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote : > sage <sage@allstream.net> had it: >> > Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> had it: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ar. It's Ashton that's under Lyne. Philip Eden > "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote : >> sage <sage@allstream.net> had it: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> > It's Ashton that's under Lyne. As well as being under Wychwood (starless and bible-black) and in Makerfield and upon Mersey. Gets around, that Ashton. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >sage <sage@allstream.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Ar. Oh, g-no. Ashton-under-Lyne it was, actually (from Rustington-on-Sea, let it be said, or sung (sgnu?)). SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >>I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called >>"Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >share, I think. And Sandy Beds (though it really qualifies for a comma >to separate the town from its county) deserves a mention. A few miles to the east of Sandy is Wendy. Unfortunately Wendy is in Cambs not Beds. A couple of miles north of Wendy is Croydon. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called > "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to Kick in the a.s, Nebraska, if there were such a place as > the latter. Neglect not Middle or Over of that ilk: sounds as though a man's lucky to get out of that part of Hog territory in anything but an ambulance. But I'm sorry Nether W isn't better known over there: if I'm not much mistaken, it houses aerial elements of the US Occupation Force. "Wallop" may mean "vale with a stream", or "wall or ridge by a stream". Not to be confounded with "wallop" = "beer", which, if you can hold it, could lead over the border to Piddletrenthide, or even martyrdom at Tolpuddle. "Be Oi Wiltshire? Be Oi buggery! Oi comes down from Wareham. Oi knows a girl with calico drawers, And Oi knows how to tear 'em. The floy! The floy! The floy be on the turrnip! Bugger Oi if Oi do troy To keep floy off me turrnip!" SignatureMike. >"Be Oi Wiltshire? Be Oi buggery! Oi comes down from Wareham. Ampshire, innit. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > >"Be Oi Wiltshire? Be Oi buggery! Oi comes down from Wareham. > > Ampshire, innit. I did say the liquid wallop could lead one to piddle over the border: hence my excursion into deepest Daarset. That version of the song alludes to regimental amalgamation and other boy-toy matters. (Oh, sh.t! I promised the nearest and dearest I was going to be in bed by now, and didn't want to play celebrations. Never mind: I can't think of a nicer person to wish a happy new year to. <Smack>) xxx SignatureMike. [snip] > But I'm sorry Nether W isn't better known over there: if I'm not much > mistaken, it houses aerial elements of the US Occupation Force. [snip] Posted by Graeme Thomas on Oct 10 (a month prior to his untimely demise): http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/browse_frm/thread/967086b061756 bcc/ef675735c043e467?lnk=gst&q=Nether+Wallop&rnum=2#ef675735c043e467 "...There are three Wallops: Nether Wallop, Middle Wallop, and Over Wallop. Middle Wallop was once (and perhaps still is) a major airbase. They are in Hampshire, between Andover and Salisbury..." Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > I redd in a Wodehouse book that there's a place called > "Nether Wallop" in England. I couldn't believe it was true, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to Kick in the a.s, Nebraska, if there were such a place as > the latter. How do you stand on the question of the Oxfordshire Salomes - Berrick and Britwell? They do say that the signpost in Lincolnshire which states "To Mavis Enderby and Old Bolingbroke" is regularly vandalised by the graffiti artists who add "...the gift of a son". SignatureJohn Dean Oxford |
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