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Punchball

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Tony Cooper - 01 Jan 2007 04:07 GMT
Watching the Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears football game tonight, Al
Michaels was talking about growing up in Brooklyn and playing
punchball with Sid Luckman.  Sid, a very famous (in the US) former
quarterback with the Bears lived in Brooklyn.

http://www.streetplay.com/rulesheets/punchball/ are some rules for
punchball, but Al was talking about punching the ball from "sewer to
sewer".  

I've never heard of punchball before.  Stoopball, yes, but punchball,
no.

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Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Salvatore Volatile - 01 Jan 2007 04:37 GMT
> Watching the Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears football game tonight, Al
> Michaels was talking about growing up in Brooklyn and playing
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've never heard of punchball before.  Stoopball, yes, but punchball,
> no.

Punchball was a very popular game when I was a kid in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in
the 1970s (LDITTC).  The way we played it, it was done in a schoolyard,
using a makeshift or imaginary baseball diamond (much as with, say,
wiffleball or kickball), and had the same basic rules as baseball, except
that there was no pitcher, and the 'batter' would punch the ball almost
in the manner of a tennis serve.  The ball was a standard sort of spongy
rubber ball of the sort then manufactured by the Spalding company (itself
having roots in Flatbush [The Heart of Brooklyn {FLCIA}]).

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Salvatore Volatile

Roland Hutchinson - 01 Jan 2007 05:00 GMT
> Punchball was a very popular game when I was a kid in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in
> the 1970s (LDITTC).  

"Last" or "Longest"?

> The way we played it, it was done in a schoolyard,
> using a makeshift or imaginary baseball diamond (much as with, say,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> rubber ball of the sort then manufactured by the Spalding company (itself
> having roots in Flatbush [The Heart of Brooklyn {FLCIA}])

Did you call it (the ball) a "spaldeen"?

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Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
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Salvatore Volatile - 01 Jan 2007 05:32 GMT
>> Punchball was a very popular game when I was a kid in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in
>> the 1970s (LDITTC).  
>
> "Last" or "Longest"?

Definitely longest.  The shortest decade I've experienced was the 1990s.
The 1980s were fairly long, especially the first half, but nowhere near as
long as the 1970s.

>> The way we played it, it was done in a schoolyard,
>> using a makeshift or imaginary baseball diamond (much as with, say,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Did you call it (the ball) a "spaldeen"?

No, although I think at that time "Spaldeen" may have been a trademark
for a particular subtype of Spalding rubber ball (imprinted on the ball
itself).  I've read about the usage of "Spaldeen" as a generic or
quasi-generic term for rubber ball in New York (LCIA), but it appears to
be an older-generational thing.

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Salvatore Volatile

Blinky the Shark - 01 Jan 2007 06:42 GMT
> No, although I think at that time "Spaldeen" may have been a trademark
> for a particular subtype of Spalding rubber ball (imprinted on the ball
> itself).  I've read about the usage of "Spaldeen" as a generic or
> quasi-generic term for rubber ball in New York (LCIA), but it appears to
> be an older-generational thing.

It also appears to be simply a mispronunciation.

http://www.spaldeen.com/thestory.html

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Roland Hutchinson - 01 Jan 2007 18:41 GMT
>>> Punchball was a very popular game when I was a kid in Brooklyn (FLCIA)
>>> in the 1970s (LDITTC).
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The 1980s were fairly long, especially the first half, but nowhere near as
> long as the 1970s.

I knew that the 60s were over for sure and for good when TV ads for a
mass-marketed chocolate coverered granola bar first appeared.  

The mass-marketing of granola was no biggie, or even of granola bars: but
chocolate-covered ones -- chocolate-covered health food?  A line had
clearly been crossed.

This would have been sometime in the early 80s, if memory serves.

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Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

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Salvatore Volatile - 01 Jan 2007 20:47 GMT
> I knew that the 60s were over for sure and for good when TV ads for a
> mass-marketed chocolate coverered granola bar first appeared.  

AON, I recently visited my undergrad college after a
16-year absence.  Remarkably, very little had changed.  But one of the
strangest things I did see was an "Investment Banking Boot Camp" being
held on campus on that September weekend.  Completely unthinkable when I
was a student there.

> The mass-marketing of granola was no biggie, or even of granola bars: but
> chocolate-covered ones -- chocolate-covered health food?  A line had
> clearly been crossed.
>
> This would have been sometime in the early 80s, if memory serves.

Truly.  Maybe around the time that the chocolate-flavored weight-loss food
"AYDS", once extensively advertised on TV, disappeared.

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Salvatore Volatile

Pat Durkin - 01 Jan 2007 21:07 GMT
>> I knew that the 60s were over for sure and for good when TV ads for a
>> mass-marketed chocolate coverered granola bar first appeared.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> food
> "AYDS", once extensively advertised on TV, disappeared.

I can remember eating my sister's supply of AYDS, back in the '50s.  I
preferred the caramel-flavored ones.  Did she ever get pissed!  If they
lasted as late as the '80s, then I can see why they dropped out of
favor.  'Twas in the early years of that decade that AIDS got its name
and fame.
Evan Kirshenbaum - 03 Jan 2007 23:40 GMT
> The ball was a standard sort of spongy rubber ball of the sort then
> manufactured by the Spalding company (itself having roots in
> Flatbush [The Heart of Brooklyn {FLCIA}]).

"Roots"?  The company was started in Chicago.  Spalding himself was
born in Illinois and played professionally for Boston and Chicago.

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Roland Hutchinson - 01 Jan 2007 04:57 GMT
> Watching the Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears football game tonight, Al
> Michaels was talking about growing up in Brooklyn and playing
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I've never heard of punchball before.  Stoopball, yes, but punchball,
> no.

Dunno about Brooklyn (TL... whatever), but we played punchball substantially
as described (the playground version, not the street version) at my
elementary school in Southern California in the early 60s.  Kickball, too.
(Basically the same game, but with a "pitcher" and the ball kicked.  Oh,
and the ball was a purpose-made "kickball", whereas for punchball we used a
volleyball.)  These were mostly organized games, part of phys ed class.

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Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

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Tony Cooper - 01 Jan 2007 05:52 GMT
>> Watching the Green Bay Packers/Chicago Bears football game tonight, Al
>> Michaels was talking about growing up in Brooklyn and playing
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>and the ball was a purpose-made "kickball", whereas for punchball we used a
>volleyball.)  These were mostly organized games, part of phys ed class.

I should have dated Al's comment.  He didn't give a date, but said
that Sid was still playing for the Bears, but it was toward end of his
career.  Sid's last season was in 1950, so it would have been in the
late 40s.

For the benefit of the younger Americans, and all non-American
readers, even major sports figures like Luckman lived pretty ordinary
lives off-season.  It's easy to think of Luckman returning to Brooklyn
after the season and stopping to play punchball with the neighborhood
kids.  Although athletes were not celebrities then the way they are
now, Luckman would have been known in Brooklyn.  Da Bears won four NFL
championships in that era.  Luckman attended Erasmus Hall High School
in Brooklyn, and Columbia University in New York City.

George Halas signed Luckman for $5,000.  Rex Grossman, the current
Chicago quarterback, earned $469,290 in 2005, but earned over $2
million in both 2004 and 2003 including bonuses.

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Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Salvatore Volatile - 01 Jan 2007 17:38 GMT
> Luckman attended Erasmus Hall High School in Brooklyn

That would suggest that he was from my home town, Flatbush (The Heart of
Brooklyn [FLCIA]).  Erasmus was the public high school for which we were
'zoned' when I was a kid, but my elder brother and sister used a fake
address (my great-aunt Dora's address, IIRC) in order to attend Midwood
High School (our street was, I think, the dividing line for the two high
school zones, and we lived on the north side of the street).  Erasmus was,
by the mid-1970s, rapidly declining in quality and safety, while Midwood
was still very highly regarded.  As it happens, neither of them had to
continue using the fake address, because they were admitted to special
honors-type programs at Midwood, which enabled the admittee to live
outside of the zone.

Erasmus has a very distinguished history. It started out as a private
academy, and was founded by Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr of dueling
fame, among others, according to Wikipedia. At some point it became a
public school.  It has a number of distinguished graduates, particularly
in show business, including Barbra Streisand, Neil Diamond, Betty Comden,
Stephanie Mills, Barbara Stanwyck, Eli Wallach, Robert Silverberg, Mae
West, Micky Spillane, Lainie Kazan, Joseph Barbera and Bernard Malamud.  
Bobby Fischer of chess fame attended but dropped out (= ApproxBrE "never
became a school-leaver").

My elementary school graduation ceremony was held at Erasmus, IIRC.

Brooklyn is not shaped like a handgun, nor is it America in miniature.

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Salvatore Volatile

Tony Cooper - 01 Jan 2007 17:56 GMT
>Erasmus has a very distinguished history. It started out as a private
>academy, and was founded by Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr of dueling
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Bobby Fischer of chess fame attended but dropped out (= ApproxBrE "never
>became a school-leaver").

But they can't claim Al Roker.  
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Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

the Omrud - 01 Jan 2007 18:19 GMT
Salvatore Volatile <me@privacy.net> had it:

> Erasmus has a very distinguished history. It started out as a private
> academy, and was founded by Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr of dueling
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Bobby Fischer of chess fame attended but dropped out (= ApproxBrE "never
> became a school-leaver").

Hmmm.  An adult who never became a school leaver would still be
attending school.  You really have to accept that we don't have any
correspondence with high-school graduation.  Not even a notional
status of "school leaver".  That's just somebody who has left school,
be it at 16 with no qualifications, or at 18 with five As at A-level.

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David
=====

R J Valentine - 02 Jan 2007 03:01 GMT
...
} Brooklyn is not shaped like a handgun, nor is it America in miniature.

But at least it has a Verrazano bridge, just like Maryland.

And of course for Coop we should mention that Al Roker went to Oswego,
where my parents both took a shop class from the guy that the
undergraduate library at the University of Maryland is named after.  
(Have I mentioned that my cousin is bursar there?  Oswego, that is.)

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rjv

Mike Lyle - 01 Jan 2007 17:56 GMT
[...]

> For the benefit of the younger Americans, and all non-American
> readers, even major sports figures like Luckman lived pretty ordinary
> lives off-season.  It's easy to think of Luckman returning to Brooklyn
> after the season and stopping to play punchball with the neighborhood
> kids.  Although athletes were not celebrities then the way they are
> now, Luckman would have been known in Brooklyn.[...]

Same everywhere else, of course. At least one celebrated English soccer
player of our time, Nat Lofthouse, even kept up his "day job" -- in his
case, down the coal pit. Australian cricketers were nominally amateurs
till surprisingly recently. I imagine the change came in the US for the
same reason as elsewhere -- television started throwing money.

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Mike.

 
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