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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007How do you say in English
Hi, Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait tard". Someone told me: it was late An other: it was getting late Which one is correct? Have good year!  SignatureLes chiens ont des puces, mais ils n'ont pas de reseau. 6c > Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait tard". > > Someone told me: it was late > An other: it was getting late > Which one is correct? Case 1 = simple past tense Case 2 = past continuous tense. There is probably no semantic difference. Native English speakers recognize both. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) Chakaba asked > Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait > tard". > > Someone told me: it was late > An other: it was getting late > Which one is correct? Both versions are correct, and both mean the same. I am puzzled by your use of "eventually" at the start of the sentence. In English, this seems (at least to me) to be meaningless. I would have just said "I didn't call you yesterday night because it was late (or: it was getting late)". Can you explain why you have used "eventually"? How would you have said the "eventually" bit in French? Richard Chambers Leeds UK. > Chakaba asked >> Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait >> tard". [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Richard Chambers Leeds UK. "Yesterday night" sounds quite strange to me. I'd say "last night." SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ The Skitt entity posted thusly: >> Chakaba asked > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >"Yesterday night" sounds quite strange to me. I'd say "last night." Agreed. I would say "yesterday evening" (or afternoon od morning), but NEVER "yesteray night". > The Skitt entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Agreed. I would say "yesterday evening" (or afternoon od morning), but > NEVER "yesteray night". Oh I wouldn't. Last night or last evening ... TOF >The Skitt entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Agreed. I would say "yesterday evening" (or afternoon od morning), but >NEVER "yesteray night". "Yesterday night" is a straight translation of the French "hier soir" which is, in effect, last night. SignatureRobin Herts, England > >The Skitt entity posted thusly: > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > which is, in effect, last night. > -- but "soir" is evening. Night is "nuit". Mind you. I've not ever heard anyone say "hier nuit". TOF > Robin > Herts, England > but "soir" is evening. Night is "nuit". > > Mind you. I've not ever heard anyone say "hier nuit". You may hear people say "la nuit derni?re". "Cette nuit" can either mean "last night" or "tonight" depending on context. ("Cette nuit-l?" means "that night") > > but "soir" is evening. Night is "nuit". > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mean "last night" or "tonight" depending on context. ("Cette nuit-là" > means "that night") What about "Cette nuit-ci"? TOF > > > but "soir" is evening. Night is "nuit". > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TOF "This night" roughly... Not necessarily the one which comes after "ce soir" though. Could be this present or recent night we're talking about as opposed to that other (less recent) night. To express closeness in French append -ci to the noun. cette baguette-ci this baguette and -la to the noun to express distance. cette baguette-la that baguette TOF a écrit : [...] >> "Yesterday night" is a straight translation of the French "hier soir" >> which is, in effect, last night. >> -- > > but "soir" is evening. Night is "nuit". The meanings of "night" and "nuit" don't completely overlap. "Nuit" mostly lacks the "period of time from afternoon to bedtime; an evening" (New Oxford Dictionary of English) meaning of "night". That's "soir" in French. SignatureIsabelle Cecchini richard.chambersss7@ntlworld.com had it: > Chakaba asked > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Both versions are correct, and both mean the same. I would say that the sense of the French is slightly better expressed by "it was getting late", but the first answer is not wrong. > I am puzzled by your use of "eventually" at the start of the sentence. In > English, this seems (at least to me) to be meaningless. I would have just > said "I didn't call you yesterday night because it was late (or: it was > getting late)". Can you explain why you have used "eventually"? How would > you have said the "eventually" bit in French? He's used it in place of the French "enfin", which is better translated in this sentence as "In the end", meaning "this is the reason". Colloquial French often sticks this word at the beginning of sentences without really changing the meaning of what follows. Using such verbal ticks can make one sound more fluent than one actually is, and gives one time to think about the gender of the next noun in the sentence one is frantically preparing. SignatureDavid ===== "Enfin" is possible but rare in spoken French. "Finalement" is much more likely and slightly bad taste. feu.rouge from Guadeloupe ----- Original Message ----- From: "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:16 AM Subject: Re: How do you say in English > richard.chambersss7@ntlworld.com had it: > > Chakaba asked [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > David > ===== > > richard.chambersss7@ntlworld.com had it: > > > Chakaba asked [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > actually is, and gives one time to think about the gender of the next > > noun in the sentence one is frantically preparing. > "Enfin" is possible but rare in spoken French. "Finalement" is much more > likely and slightly bad taste. That's interesting. By "bad taste" am I right in assuming you mean simply "poor style"? We do indeed use "taste" when referring to literary style, but I think we'd reserve it for more flagrant breaches of convention. Mais, enfin, on a foul? le bon gout. On "eventually", I wonder if Chakaba is thinking of "in the event", which we do use to point a contrast between what had been intended and what was actually done. "I did mean to ring you, but in the event it was getting late and I thought you might have gone to bed." The two expressions must look like synonyms, but they aren't: that's English for you! SignatureMike. Mike Lyle: > On "eventually", I wonder if Chakaba is thinking of "in the event", > which we do use to point a contrast between what had been intended and > what was actually done. "I did mean to ring you, but in the event it > was getting late and I thought you might have gone to bed." The two > expressions must look like synonyms, but they aren't: that's English > for you! And in addition, "in the event" is not used with this meaning here in North America. We would substitute other expressions, such as "as it turned out". Here, "in the event" is only used (normally with "of" or "that") to express a conditional statement. "In the event that fog prevents play, the game will be rescheduled"; or "The game will be rescheduled in the event of fog." I think "dans le cas" would be equivalent in French. I don't think that anyone has explained in this thread what "eventually" does mean in English. It means "after some time", possibly a long time. "Eventually I understood what he meant"; "no matter how strong you make a building, eventually it will become a ruin". SignatureMark Brader "There are three rules for writing the novel. Toronto Unfortunately no one knows what they are." msb@vex.net -- Maugham My text in this article is in the public domain. > And in addition, "in the event" is not used with this meaning here in > North America. We would substitute other expressions, such as "as it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > be rescheduled in the event of fog." I think "dans le cas" would be > equivalent in French. "In the event that fog prevents play, the game will be rescheduled" EN CAS DE brouillard la partie est reportée (à une date ultérieure). DANS LE CAS où le brouillard persiste, la partie est reportée (à une date ultérieure). Both of the sentences are correct. "Chakaba": > > Someone told me: it was late > > An other: it was getting late > > Which one is correct? Dick Chambers: > Both versions are correct, and both mean the same. Almost. "It was getting late" means it was just becoming late. For example, if you wanted to leave between 1:00 and 2:00, you might say "it's getting late; I should go" at 1:50, maybe at 2:10; but you wouldn't say it at 4:00. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Ever wonder why they call the screen msb@vex.net a vacuum tube?" -- Kent Paul Dolan > Hi, > Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait tard". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Have good year! Both are good English and make sense. "It was getting late" sounds to me like a beautiful translation of "il se faisait tard"--if I understand the French correctly. SignatureJerry Friedman >>Hi, >>Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait tard". [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > me like a beautiful translation of "il se faisait tard"--if I > understand the French correctly. Agreed, and I cannot agree with Dick Chambers's assertion that they both have the same meaning. SignatureRob Bannister >>> Hi, >>> Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Agreed, and I cannot agree with Dick Chambers's assertion that they both > have the same meaning. Yes, it gets late before it is late. If it was late, I didn't call because I'd have wakened you. If it was getting late, I didn't call because I didn't want to keep you up (or there was the off chance you'd be in bed). --Jeff SignatureThe shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same. --Stendhal > Hi, > Eventually, I didn't call you yesterday night, because "il se faisait tard". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Have good year! Leave out "eventually" as it makes no sense there. You probably meant something like "I ended up not calling" or "in the end, I didn't call because...". "Yesterday night" is logical, but not idiomatic; use "yesterday afternoon". "Last night" is preferred, but "last afternoon" isn't used (at least not for the same purpose). Other ways to express the same thing: I didn't end up calling you last night because by the time I got home it was late. I didn't call last night because it was too late. By the time I got your message, it was getting pretty late, so I didn't call. |
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