I just finished reading Gulliver's Travels, part 3 chapter 11, where
the guy arrived in Japan and went home from there.
( http://xahlee.org/p/Gullivers_Travels/gt3ch11.html )
Quite a few items i no unstand, from specifics to general allusion.
The city Xamoschi and Nangasac in Japan are mentioned. Are these purely
fictional? Do they allude to any real city?
«I soon fell into the company of some Dutch sailors belonging to the
Amboyna, of Amsterdam...»
Does the Amboyna meant to bring to mind the Ambon Massacre?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambon_Massacre
And i don't quite understand the business of trampling the crucifixion.
Of course, it is a insult to Christians, and England and most Europeans
at the time are Christians of one faction or another. But i'm not sure
what Swift is getting at.
And, apparently there's some issues with the Dutch and the English, i
no unstand.
Help!
----
It's somewhat curious, that in a sequence of fictional places out comes
the name Japan. What is the 1700's English know of Japan? and what
Japan is doing at those times? I do not know the basic histories of
these two countries.
Xah
xah@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/
John Dean - 05 Jan 2007 12:24 GMT
> I just finished reading Gulliver's Travels, part 3 chapter 11, where
> the guy arrived in Japan and went home from there.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The city Xamoschi and Nangasac in Japan are mentioned. Are these
> purely fictional? Do they allude to any real city?
Nangasac is almost certainly Nagasaki
http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/moonlight/intro.html
Xamoschi is likely to be Shimonoseki
> «I soon fell into the company of some Dutch sailors belonging to the
> Amboyna, of Amsterdam...»
>
> Does the Amboyna meant to bring to mind the Ambon Massacre?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambon_Massacre
Very likely
> And i don't quite understand the business of trampling the
> crucifixion. Of course, it is a insult to Christians, and England and
> most Europeans at the time are Christians of one faction or another.
> But i'm not sure what Swift is getting at.
"crucifix".
There was great rivalry between the Catholics in Japan - missionaries,
largely Jesuit - and the Protestant Dutch and occasional stray Brit.
Stamping on the crucifix is something a Catholic would never do but a
Protestant probably would. There's a scene in James Clavell's "Shogun" where
this device is used to detect secret Catholics in the crew of a Japanese
ship. Which leads us nicely to ...
> It's somewhat curious, that in a sequence of fictional places out
> comes the name Japan. What is the 1700's English know of Japan? and
> what Japan is doing at those times? I do not know the basic histories
> of these two countries.
... Will Adams who was the inspiration for Clavell's John Blackthorne. Adams
was an Englishman who landed in Japan in the early 17th Century as pilot to
a Dutch expedition and became a senior adviser to the soon-to-be Shogun,
Ieyasu. Plenty of on-line material to see on this subject including:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_%28sailor%29
As you will see, there was, for a period, an English trading outpost there.

Signature
John Dean
Oxford
Xah Lee - 07 Jan 2007 15:23 GMT
Xah Lee wrote:
«I just finished reading Gulliver's Travels, part 3 chapter 11, where
the guy arrived in Japan and went home from there.
( http://xahlee.org/p/Gullivers_Travels/gt3ch11.html )
i no unstand. help!
»
«Nangasac is almost certainly Nagasaki
http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/moonlight/intro.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_%28sailor%29
As you will see, there was, for a period, an English trading outpost
there.
»
That article by Maurice JOHNSON et al
http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/moonlight/intro.html
is particularly helpful.
Thanks to all who replied! The background info helped tremendously.
PS to those who have helped me often in the past year or so in reading
or discussing Shakespeare's Titus or Sir Richard Francis Burton Arabian
Nights, i've put up a word acknowledgment for alt.usage.English and
mentioned a few people. If i have forgotten you, whoever you may be,
please email me.
Xah
xah@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/
athel...@yahoo - 05 Jan 2007 12:31 GMT
> I just finished reading Gulliver's Travels, part 3 chapter 11, where
> the guy arrived in Japan and went home from there.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The city Xamoschi and Nangasac in Japan are mentioned. Are these purely
> fictional? Do they allude to any real city?
Xamoschi I don't know, but Nangasac is probably Nagasaki, which was the
only Japanese place known to Europeans at that time, as it was the only
place where Europeans were allowed to set up their trading stations. I
forget whether it was the Dutch or the Portuguese who set up shop there
first, but one or the other, and both were active there at different
times. I think it was the Portuguese who came first, but that after a
while the Japanese threw them out as they were too keen on converting
people to Christianity, whereas the Dutch were perceived as caring only
about making money.
[ ... ]
> And, apparently there's some issues with the Dutch and the English, i
> no unstand.
In Swift's day the Dutch (as principal rivals to British domination of
world-wide trade by sea) were the Enemy. If you were British then
British naval power was a Good Thing, and anyone who threatened it was
Evil. Many of our negative terms involving the Dutch (Dutch courage,
double-Dutch, nitwit, Dutch cap, etc.) date from that time.
athel
Don Phillipson - 05 Jan 2007 13:59 GMT
> In Swift's day the Dutch (as principal rivals to British domination of
> world-wide trade by sea) were the Enemy. If you were British then
> British naval power was a Good Thing, and anyone who threatened it was
> Evil. Many of our negative terms involving the Dutch (Dutch courage,
> double-Dutch, nitwit, Dutch cap, etc.) date from that time.
We can be much more exact than this. Swift lived
1667-1745 (i.e. from the Great Fire of London, almost,
to the rebellion of Bonnie Prince Charlie.) In the 1660s
there were short, savage wars between England and
the Netherlands (notably when the Dutch sailed into the
fortified River Medway and burned the English flagship,
see Pepys's diary.) But for most of Swift's lifetime the
Netherlands was a valued refuge for English dissidents
or refugees (e.g. Catholics under a Protestant monarch
or Protestants under a Catholic) and a Dutchman even
(by invitation of Parliament) occupied the English throne.
In the 17th century England was in some years at war
against France, Spain or the Netherlands, and in other
years at war in alliance with France, Spain or the
Netherlands. This does not suggest that any foreign
country was generally "the Enemy" in any modern
sense: it suggests that the state of being at war with
or at peace with XYZ was evaluated in the 17th century
differently from how we nowadays think about it; and
perhaps similarly for topics of race and culture (cf.
Samuel Johnson on the Welsh, Scotch, Irish, etc.)

Signature
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Alan Hope - 05 Jan 2007 14:44 GMT
Xah Lee goes:
>I just finished reading Gulliver's Travels, part 3 chapter 11, where
>the guy arrived in Japan and went home from there.
>( http://xahlee.org/p/Gullivers_Travels/gt3ch11.html )
>Quite a few items i no unstand, from specifics to general allusion.
>The city Xamoschi and Nangasac in Japan are mentioned. Are these purely
>fictional? Do they allude to any real city?
>«I soon fell into the company of some Dutch sailors belonging to the
>Amboyna, of Amsterdam...»
>Does the Amboyna meant to bring to mind the Ambon Massacre?
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambon_Massacre
Amboyna is another name for Ambon. The Amboyna of Amsterdam would be a
ship.
>And i don't quite understand the business of trampling the crucifixion.
>Of course, it is a insult to Christians, and England and most Europeans
>at the time are Christians of one faction or another. But i'm not sure
>what Swift is getting at.
>And, apparently there's some issues with the Dutch and the English, i
>no unstand.
Always lots of issues with the Dutch and the English, including four
wars when Swift was but a lad. The Dutch had then given England a
King. It's all very involved. See Glorious Revolution at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution

Signature
AH
http://this-thing-of-ours.blogspot.com
tinwhistler - 06 Jan 2007 00:30 GMT
[snip]
See Glorious Revolution at Wikipedia:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution
[snip]
That link refers to the UK Bill of Rights and its removal of the
monarch's power to suspend laws:
"...The Revolution of 1688 is considered by some as being one of the
most important events in the long evolution of powers possessed by
Parliament and by the Crown in England. With the passage of the Bill of
Rights, it stamped out any final possibility of a Catholic monarchy,
and ended moves towards monarchical absolutism in the British Isles by
circumscribing the monarch's powers. The King's powers were greatly
restricted; he could no longer suspend laws, levy taxes, or maintain a
standing army during peacetime without Parliament's permission...."
The standards of the UK Bill of Rights have been held by the US Supreme
Court to be incorporated into the US Bill of Rights. While this is a
non-political forum, I think the principle of a limited executive power
is so important that I may be excused for digressing a little with this
bit from yesterday's newspaper (Bush, through a signing statement, in
effect suspends a law at the very time he signs it):
New York Daily News, Jan. 4, 2007
W pushes envelope on U.S. spying
New postal law lets Bush peek through your mail
Daily News Exclusive BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
WASHINGTON - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to
open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the Daily News has
learned. The President asserted his new authority when he signed a
postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing
statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under
emergency conditions.
That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had
just signed, say experts who have reviewed it. ..." Despite the
President's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy
protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government
from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry
Waxman (D-Calif.), the incoming House Government Reform Committee
chairman, who co-sponsored the bill. Experts said the new powers could
be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail. "The
[Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without
a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin,
director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.
"The danger is they're reading Americans' mail," she said. "You have
to be concerned," agreed a career senior U.S. official who reviewed the
legal underpinnings of Bush's claim. "It takes Executive Branch
authority beyond anything we've ever known."
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2007/01/1733642.php
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Dilbert Firestorm - 06 Jan 2007 02:47 GMT
>Xah Lee goes:
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>King. It's all very involved. See Glorious Revolution at Wikipedia:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution
too bad about King James II. He certainly got the raw end of the deal.
Robert Bannister - 06 Jan 2007 22:52 GMT
> too bad about King James II. He certainly got the raw end of the deal.
How could anyone feel sorry for him? He was not an unintelligent man,
but he did a lot of stupid things.

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Rob Bannister