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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007cornstarch
Is cornstarch the flour that gets thickened if we put it in hot water ? What is the difference among flour/cornflour/cornstarch/wheat ? Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? ------- Actually I like coconut milk, I bought 2 can at ~$1.40 each yesterday. I like to cook it with "flour" but I don't know which one. I will pour the cooked coconut milk over my cooked sweetened stickey rice+beans. I have not eaten like this for years. Really want to eat! Help me please... >Is cornstarch the flour that gets thickened if we put it in hot water ? >What is the difference among flour/cornflour/cornstarch/wheat ? Cornflour and cornstarch are the same thing - cornflour is the UK term and cornstarch the US term. Cornflour is made from maize, while wheatflour is made from wheat. Cornflour is indeed the flour that thickens when added to hot water. >Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, rye and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm buying.  SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >Is cornstarch the flour that gets thickened if we put it in hot water ? > >What is the difference among flour/cornflour/cornstarch/wheat ? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm > buying. Arrowroot's good for fruit juice. It thickens without making the sauce cloudy; but you have to use more of it than cornflour. An eponymous ingredient of the excellent Arnott's Milk Arrowroot Biscuit: I haven't tasted them for years, but they have a finer texture than, say, Small Rich Tea. I think the arrowroot also makes it possible for the biscuit to be thin without falling apart. SignatureMike. >Cornflour and cornstarch are the same thing - cornflour is the UK term >and cornstarch the US term. Cornflour is made from maize, while >wheatflour is made from wheat. Cornflour is indeed the flour that >thickens when added to hot water. Careful! Cornstarch is not analogous to wheat flour. The corn kernel (of the cultivars used to make cornstarch, among the category known as "field corn") is unusual in that its endosperm consists almost entirely of starch. (In fact, corn is the most efficient plant at turning sunlight, water, and carbon dioxide into carbohydrates.[1]) Other grains, such as wheat, have much more protein in their endosperms, which is why you can make loaf breads from wheat but not from corn. The analogue to wheat flour is cornmeal, which is made from the whole kernel (and thus contains fat, a small amount of protein, and fiber in addition to the starch). In any case, cornstarch thickens best when added to cold water and then heated gradually. Adding cornstarch directly to hot liquids causes the starch grains to scrunch up into gluey lumps. -GAWollman [1] Actually it's tied with sugar cane. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> Cornflour and cornstarch are the same thing - cornflour is the UK >> term and cornstarch the US term. Cornflour is made from maize, while >> wheatflour is made from wheat. Cornflour is indeed the flour that >> thickens when added to hot water. > > Careful! Cornstarch is not analogous to wheat flour. I don't think I said it was. I said that cornstarch is the US term for what I call cornflour, and is made from maize. I said that wheat flour is made from wheat. > The corn kernel > (of the cultivars used to make cornstarch, among the category known as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > from the whole kernel (and thus contains fat, a small amount of > protein, and fiber in addition to the starch). Well, you can make loaf breads from corn. Ask a coeliac. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? > > Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, rye > and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm > buying. Cake flour's a staple in this household, for making brownies. SignatureSML >>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cake flour's a staple in this household, for making brownies. I don't think we can get "cake flour". We have plain flour and self-raising. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it: > >>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't think we can get "cake flour". We have plain flour and > self-raising. And strong bread flour. I have a wholemeal loaf proving in the kitchen at the moment, just about to be eased into the oven. Sorry Linz, I know that this type of flour is not good for you, but it's necessary for good homemade bread. SignatureDavid ===== > spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Sorry Linz, I know that this type of flour is not good for you, but > it's necessary for good homemade bread. Cor, I've now got the olfactory equivalent of STS - I didn't know that was possible with anything other than Marmite which I can taste the minute the name is mentioned. I think I shall have to go and make some toast, which will be a poor substitute for your fresh bread. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it: > > spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > minute the name is mentioned. I think I shall have to go and make some > toast, which will be a poor substitute for your fresh bread. Feel free to drop by for a slice. It's just gone into the oven. And although we are now an almost exclusively Olivio house, there's some butter left over from Christmas ... SignatureDavid ===== >although we are now an almost exclusively Olivio house, there's some >butter left over from Christmas ... Er...what's Olivio? It sounds like a minor Shakespeare character who gets rapiered at the end of Act 1. SignatureArchie Valparaiso > >although we are now an almost exclusively Olivio house, there's some > >butter left over from Christmas ... > > Er...what's Olivio? It sounds like a minor Shakespeare character who > gets rapiered at the end of Act 1. My guess (and this is only a guess, mind) is that it is a form of margarine so watered down that it can't legally be called margarine, and containing a smidgin of cheap olive oil to justify the name . . . SignatureAlec McKenzie usenet@<surname>.me.uk find@sig.below had it: > > >although we are now an almost exclusively Olivio house, there's some > > >butter left over from Christmas ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > margarine, and containing a smidgin of cheap olive oil to > justify the name . . . It's called Bertolli Olive Oil Spread now. I've just looked at the pack - it's 21% olive oil. SignatureDavid ===== >find@sig.below had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >It's called Bertolli Olive Oil Spread now. I've just looked at the >pack - it's 21% olive oil. plus... rapeseed oil, vegetable oil, buttermilk, water, emulsifiers, preservatives, thickener, flavourings, colouring and vitamins. Watch out for the term "vegetable oil": it often means palm oil, a saturated fat that carries serious environmental concerns but that manufacturers like to use because it has a high melting point. http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article361410.ece I note also that a 500-g tub of the stuff at Sainsbury's costs GBP 1.22 a tub -- i.e. for a little over 100 g of olive oil -- while half a litre (i.e. 500 g-ish) of Bertolli's own extra-virgin olive oil -- and the oil in the spread will almost certainly not be extra virgin -- costs only GBP 3.25. In other words, they're charging you nearly three quid over the odds for the privilege of consuming their olive oil mixed up with 79% crap. SignatureArchie Valparaiso >plus... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > concerns but that manufacturers like to use because it has a > high melting point. The Olivio Premium Products Web site describes the U.S. version of this spread as: VEGETABLE OIL BLEND (LIQUID CANOLA OIL, PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED SOYBEAN OIL, EXTRA LIGHT OLIVE OIL), WHEY (FROM MILK), SALT, VEGETABLE MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, SOY LECITHIN, POTASSIUM SORBATE (USED TO PROTECT QUALITY), CITRIC ACID, VITAMIN A (PALMITATE), BETA CAROTENE (FOR COLOR), NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVORS. (Their caps.) Former Chrysler chairman Lee Iacocca started the company; manufacturing is apparently contracted out to Unilever. (I like our labeling laws better: they usually have to tell you what the stuff actually is, rather than hiding behind E-numbers. On the other hand, Europe has the useful distinction between "artificial" and "nature-identical" which we don't.) >I note also that a 500-g tub of the stuff at Sainsbury's costs GBP >1.22 a tub -- i.e. for a little over 100 g of olive oil -- while half >a litre (i.e. 500 g-ish) of Bertolli's own extra-virgin olive oil -- >and the oil in the spread will almost certainly not be extra virgin -- >costs only GBP 3.25. From the home-delivery service of my local Ahold-owned supermarket, Olivio brand spread is priced at $2.76/lb. A comparable product, Smart Balance brand buttery spread, is $2.59/lb; other spreads range from $1.40/lb ("Shedd's Spread Country Crock Plus with Calcium Soft") to $2.98/lb ("Brummel and Brown Spread with Yogurt"). Standard (stick) margarine is $1.79/lb and real butter is $2.99/lb and up (way up for premium and organic brands). -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Sorry Linz, I know that this type of flour is not good for you, but > it's necessary for good homemade bread. *sob* YoungBloke asked to go for a walk and feed the ducks last week, so set off with half a loaf of gluten-free bread. We cast our bread upon the waters and the ducks just looked at us. Even the ducks know how bad it is. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > I don't think we can get "cake flour". We have plain flour and > self-raising. Cake flour is very fine white flour with less gluten than plain white flour: <http://www.pillsburybaking.com/prodPromo/faq.aspx?id=203> Other flours from my preferred company: <http://www.kingarthurflour.com/flour/home.html> I usually have cake, white all-purpose, bread, and whole wheat flour in my cupboard. SignatureSML, former brownie que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com had it: > > I don't think we can get "cake flour". We have plain flour and > > self-raising. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I usually have cake, white all-purpose, bread, and whole wheat flour in > my cupboard. This may be a culinary pondian difference. US wheat has more gluten than European wheat, so the default flour is probably different. We have special flour for making bread (with more than the normal gluten content), but you seem to have special flour for making cakes (with less than the normal gluten content). SignatureDavid ===== > This may be a culinary pondian difference. US wheat has more gluten > than European wheat, so the default flour is probably different. We > have special flour for making bread (with more than the normal gluten > content), but you seem to have special flour for making cakes (with > less than the normal gluten content). Hmmm. We have special flour for making bread _and_ special flour for making cakes. Or, of course, you can just use all-purpose for both. (Unless you're Linz. Sorry, Linz.) SignatureSML >> This may be a culinary pondian difference. US wheat has more gluten >> than European wheat, so the default flour is probably different. We [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > making cakes. Or, of course, you can just use all-purpose for both. > (Unless you're Linz. Sorry, Linz.) It's alright, I don't take it personally. Much. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> This may be a culinary pondian difference. US wheat has more gluten >> than European wheat, so the default flour is probably different. We [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >making cakes. Or, of course, you can just use all-purpose for both. >(Unless you're Linz. Sorry, Linz.) I can't see if anyone else has mentioned semolina flour, marketed here as "gravy flour". No lumps dontchaknow. http://www.aussieproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DDGF37 SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > >Is cornstarch the flour that gets thickened if we put it in hot water ? > >What is the difference among flour/cornflour/cornstarch/wheat ? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm > buying. I think you've just answered a question that has long been on a.u.e.'s mind: How does Linz pronounce "graham"? For many kinds of wheat flour and other flours (including nut flours, a category not mentioned above), try <http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/landing.jsp?go=Home>. They don't offer the starch that the British call cornflour and we Americans call cornstarch, but they do offer arrowroot starch. SignatureJerry Friedman >>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I think you've just answered a question that has long been on a.u.e.'s > mind: How does Linz pronounce "graham"? My "graham" does not rhyme with "gram". More "greyum". SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > My "graham" does not rhyme with "gram". More "greyum". OK, I looked it up. Gram flour is made from chickpeas, right? And now I wonder, do you use soy flour? I have also eaten mung beans (dried and in noodle form, as well as the bean sprouts). They might have a flour form on sale in some areas. I suspect the bread might have an aftertaste, though. I like the bean thread made from the mung beans. > OK, I looked it up. Gram flour is made from chickpeas, right? Not according to Wikipedia: Gram flour, not to be confused with Graham flour, also known as chana flour or besan is a staple ingredient in Indian cuisine. It consists of ground chana dal also known as Bengal grams in some localities, and it is used in various foods such as sweets and bombay mix. Besan is typically confused with chickpea flour. As stated above, besan is ground chana (NOT chickpea) dal. Chickpeas are larger and light brown in color and are used in making items like falafel. Chana are smaller and dark brown in color. Culinary quality of these two are very different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram_flour SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |When correctly viewed, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Everything is lewd. Palo Alto, CA 94304 |I could tell you things | about Peter Pan, kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |and the Wizard of Oz-- (650)857-7572 | there's a dirty old man! | Tom Lehrer http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>> Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, >>>> rye >>>> and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm >>>> buying. [snip] > OK, I looked it up. Gram flour is made from chickpeas, right? And > now I wonder, do you use soy flour? I have also eaten mung beans > (dried and in noodle form, as well as the bean sprouts). They might > have a flour form on sale in some areas. I suspect the bread might > have an aftertaste, though. I like the bean thread made from the > mung beans. In the UK, certainly, gram flour is from chickpeas. I've not used soya flour - I know it's available because I've got a recipe that calls for it, but I've not looked for it yet. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >>>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? > >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > My "graham" does not rhyme with "gram". More "greyum". Same here. > OK, I looked it up. Gram flour is made from chickpeas, right? ... That'll teach me not to jump to conclusions. SignatureJerry Friedman >>>> Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > My "graham" does not rhyme with "gram". More "greyum". The problem apppears to be that both "gram flour" and "graham flour" exist, and are different. According to Wikipedia Gram flour, not to be confused with Graham flour, also known as chana flour or besan is a staple ingredient in Indian cuisine. It consists of ground chana dal also known as Bengal grams in some localities, and it is used in various foods such as sweets and bombay mix. Besan is typically confused with chickpea flour. As stated above, besan is ground chana (NOT chickpea)dal.Chickpeas are larger and light brown in color and are used in making items like falafel. Chana are smaller and dark brown in color. Culinary quality of these two are very different. Graham flour is a type of whole wheat flour ... Rather than simply grinding the whole grain wheat kernel (bran, germ, and endosperm), in graham flour the components are ground separately. The endosperm is ground finely, initially creating white flour. The bran and germ are ground coarsely. The two parts are then mixed back together, creating a coarse-textured flour that bakes and keeps well. Graham flour is used to make graham crackers and pie crusts, among other things. Having never heard of "gram flour", I, too, assumed that Linz pronounced "graham" /gr&m/, as I do. I would pronounce the two types of flour identically. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Specifically, I'd like to debate 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |whether cannibalism ought to be Palo Alto, CA 94304 |grounds for leniency in murder, |since it's less wasteful. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Calvin (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>>Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > My "graham" does not rhyme with "gram". More "greyum". Still, I would be more likely to use "garam" rather than "gram", although I seen both. SignatureRob Bannister >>>> Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, >>>> rye and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Still, I would be more likely to use "garam" rather than "gram", > although I seen both. "Garam" is something completely different, though. It's generally seen as part of "garam masala" and is a mix of spices. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>>>Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, >>>>>rye and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "Garam" is something completely different, though. It's generally seen > as part of "garam masala" and is a mix of spices. I know what garam masala is, but I have definitely seen the "garam" spelling on flour. Still, with the incredible range my local Asian supermarket stocks, I'm amazed that anything is spelt correctly. I often walk round marvelling at the stuff labelled in scripts I don't recognise, muttering "What on earth is that?". Sometimes, there is a bit of alleged English that makes it even more confusing. SignatureRob Bannister Amethyst Deceiver filted: >>Is cornstarch the flour that gets thickened if we put it in hot water ? >>What is the difference among flour/cornflour/cornstarch/wheat ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >wheatflour is made from wheat. Cornflour is indeed the flour that >thickens when added to hot water. Cornflour is white or yellow; cornflower is a distinctive shade of blue.... >>Any other kinds of powder I miss for distinguishment ? > >Powders or flours? There are also gram, potato, spelt, buckwheat, rye >and rice flours. And probably others, but those are the ones I'm >buying. On the coarser side, there's "cornmeal", used to make cornbread, corn muffins, corn fritters, polenta, and (with an intervening treatment involving lye) grits...the wheaten equivalent is called "Cream of Wheat" or farina....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. |
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