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White socks held up by a dab of soap

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Marius Hancu - 07 Jan 2007 21:18 GMT
Hello:

Is this "white socks held up by a dab of soap" a figure of speech or a
real practice in those years? (1910 or thereabouts)

-----
[Jack Burden describes his childhood friend, Anne Stanton]

I looked at her and knew that it had been a thousand years since I had
last seen her back at Christmas when she had been back at the Landing
on vacation from Miss Pound's School. She certainly was not now a
little girl wearing round-toed, black patent-leather, flat-heeled
slippers held on by a one-button strap and white socks held up by a
dab of soap.

All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 386
-----

Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Tony Cooper - 07 Jan 2007 22:11 GMT
>Hello:
>
>Is this "white socks held up by a dab of soap" a figure of speech or a
>real practice in those years? (1910 or thereabouts)

The shoes aren't right in this picture, but look at the socks:
http://www.sock-dreams.com/_shop/photos/white-bobby-socks.jpg
Imagine those socks worn with these shoes:
http://www.spiritwearusa.com/images/3800%20Capezio%20Mary%20Jane%20Tap%20Shoe%20
web.jpg


The shoes described are what I know as "Mary Janes".  They've survived
the ages.  

Socks in those days didn't have the elastic in them that they do now.
They'd stretch out at the top and droop.  No self-respecting young
lady from Miss Pound's School would be seen in public with droopy
socks.

I wasn't aware that soap would act as a glue, but I suppose it would.

I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
attest to what was used to hold up socks in 1910.

>-----
>[Jack Burden describes his childhood friend, Anne Stanton]
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Thanks.
>Marius Hancu

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

irwell - 07 Jan 2007 22:50 GMT
>>Hello:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
>attest to what was used to hold up socks in 1910.

Yes you can. They used garters, not the frilly type,
but small bands made from knicker elastic.
Even boys used them on their socks.
Boy Scouts used to attached little pennants of
varous colours.
Mike Lyle - 07 Jan 2007 22:54 GMT
[...]
> >I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
> >attest to what was used to hold up socks in 1910.
> >
> Yes you can.[...]

Irwell! I had no idea! You're incredible for your age. Did you get the
telegram?

Signature

Mike.

irwell - 08 Jan 2007 00:09 GMT
>[...]
>> >I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Irwell! I had no idea! You're incredible for your age. Did you get the
>telegram?
Not yet, got overlooked by Betty.
Sara Lorimer - 07 Jan 2007 23:16 GMT
> I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
> attest to what was used to hold up socks in 1910.

But I can throw in a oh-those-wacky-Japanese, completely unhelpful,
tidbit from around 1984 (WIWAL). I had a Japanese friend who carried a
tube of "sock glue," which she used to stick her knee-highs up.

Looking up "sock glue" on the Interweb machine brings up many pages
about Irish dancing, so... back to you.

Signature

SML

Mike Lyle - 11 Jan 2007 18:21 GMT
> > I don't think you'll find anyone in this group who can personally
> > attest to what was used to hold up socks in 1910.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Looking up "sock glue" on the Interweb machine brings up many pages
> about Irish dancing, so... back to you.

I'm informed that sticking plaster is trusted as a holder-up by
strippers. Maybe not so much for socks, though.

Signature

Mike.

Frances Kemmish - 11 Jan 2007 19:27 GMT
>>Looking up "sock glue" on the Interweb machine brings up many pages
>>about Irish dancing, so... back to you.

Competitive Irish dancing is filled with peculiarities. Apparently all
the women who take part wear wigs, as there is a standard hairstyle
which all competitors have to wear.

> I'm informed that sticking plaster is trusted as a holder-up by
> strippers. Maybe not so much for socks, though.

I was always told they used Sellotape. I don't know where they put it
though.

Fran
Tony Cooper - 11 Jan 2007 20:29 GMT
>>>Looking up "sock glue" on the Interweb machine brings up many pages
>>>about Irish dancing, so... back to you.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>I was always told they used Sellotape. I don't know where they put it
>though.

Don't tell Areff, but my daughter was a contestant in the Miss
Valdosta (university) pageant.  The contestants were provided with
instructions on how to use various types of stick-um to keep costumes
from riding up or falling down.  There was no swim suit competition,
but in some of the talent segments - like the dance routine my
daughter did - it was recommended that stick-up be applied to the
lower buttocks to keep the outfit from riding up.  Double-sided tape
was recommended to keep bosoms sufficiently contained.  Georgia judges
didn't want costume malfunctions.

My daughter found that she was one of the very few contestants who
didn't already know these tricks.  This was my daughter's first (and
last) pageant, and most of the other girls had been in pageants since
they were old enough to stand upright and not gag on Vaseline applied
to the teeth.  There's even a pageant school in Thomasville, Georgia
that offers a crash course in pageantry.  (My daughter did not take
the course.)

My daughter didn't win, and didn't advance to the Miss Georgia (state)
contest.  

 
Signature


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Frances Kemmish - 11 Jan 2007 21:51 GMT
> Don't tell Areff, but my daughter was a contestant in the Miss
> Valdosta (university) pageant.  The contestants were provided with
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> was recommended to keep bosoms sufficiently contained.  Georgia judges
> didn't want costume malfunctions.

You forgot to mention the "Preparation H" to reduce bags under the eyes.

Fran
Peter Moylan - 12 Jan 2007 08:03 GMT
> You forgot to mention the "Preparation H" to reduce bags under the
> eyes.

That's a solution that would never have occurred to me. Does it do
anything for road maps on the whites of the eyes?

Signature

Peter Moylan                             http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses.  The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses.  The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.

Oleg Lego - 08 Jan 2007 07:22 GMT
The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly:

>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 386
>-----

I don't have an answer for you, but I do want to thank you for quoting
enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
doubt that not reading it is the best course of action for me.
Will - 08 Jan 2007 14:42 GMT
> The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
> doubt that not reading it is the best course of action for me.

Quite.  Shockingly bad, wasn't it.

Will.
Oleg Lego - 08 Jan 2007 16:16 GMT
The Will entity posted thusly:

>> The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Quite.  Shockingly bad, wasn't it.

I think so, but I can't be sure how bad it is, having read only what
Marius has quoted. From that, it would appear to be a book I could get
perhaps two pages into.
Frances Kemmish - 08 Jan 2007 16:31 GMT
> The Will entity posted thusly:
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Marius has quoted. From that, it would appear to be a book I could get
> perhaps two pages into.

Think yourself lucky not to have been educated in the USA, where it
seems to be standard novel in college English classes. I presume that it
is because this novel is so well-known to Americans that we have books
called "All the President's Men" and "All the Shah's Men".

Fran
Evan Kirshenbaum - 08 Jan 2007 18:14 GMT
> Think yourself lucky not to have been educated in the USA, where it
> seems to be standard novel in college English classes. I presume
> that it is because this novel is so well-known to Americans that we
> have books called "All the President's Men" and "All the Shah's
> Men".

You don't think that it is more likely due to the ubiquity of the
"Humpty Dumpty" nursery rhyme, with Carroll's _Through the Looking-
Glass_ as a secondary vector?

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   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |technobabble levels are dangerously
   Palo Alto, CA  94304               |low.

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   http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

Frances Kemmish - 08 Jan 2007 18:37 GMT
>>Think yourself lucky not to have been educated in the USA, where it
>>seems to be standard novel in college English classes. I presume
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> "Humpty Dumpty" nursery rhyme, with Carroll's _Through the Looking-
> Glass_ as a secondary vector?

I thought that until I realised how well-known "All the King's Men" is
in the USA. I assume that the title of "All the King's Men" came from
the nursery rhyme.

Fran
Pat Durkin - 08 Jan 2007 16:42 GMT
> The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
> doubt that not reading it is the best course of action for me.

But the movie was very well-done.

http://classicfilm.about.com/od/dvdreviews/fr/allkingmen92006.htm

All the King's Men - Trailer - Showtimes - Cast - Movies - New ...In
addition to its Oscars for Crawford and McCambridge, All the King's Men
won the Best Picture prize. Warren's novel would later be adapted into a
stage ...

The film was great!
Brod Crawford was great!  I don't recall Mercedes McCambridge from that
film, though.

I guess the DVD* is out and around.  And I haven't looked up who is in
the current movie of the same name.

I finally went to the store and paid $5 for a DVD, "Big Fish".  Then, at
my favorite grocery store, I paid $0.99 each for  DVDs: The Santa Fe
Trail (Flynn, R Reagan), Jack and the Beanstalk (Abbot & Costello),
Suddenly (Sinatra), One-eyed Jacks (Brando), Vengeance Valley (B.
Lancaster), and 5 episodes of "The Andy Griffith Show".

*I suspect that, if I should find ATKM (the '49 version) for $5 or less,
I would buy that.  The only films that I have see of those above are the
Flynn/Reagan one and the Abbot&Costello one.   I only watched Andy
Griffith a few times.
R H Draney - 08 Jan 2007 18:44 GMT
Pat Durkin filted:

>All the King's Men - Trailer - Showtimes - Cast - Movies - New ...In
>addition to its Oscars for Crawford and McCambridge, All the King's Men
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>*I suspect that, if I should find ATKM (the '49 version) for $5 or less,
>I would buy that.

I'll have to check with her to find out what scene it's in, but my mother was an
extra in it....

(On another occasion, she appeared in the film "Jeanne Eagels", which does not
appear to be available on home video)....r

Signature

"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

Frank ess - 08 Jan 2007 23:24 GMT
> Pat Durkin filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> which
> does not appear to be available on home video)....r

"Background artist" in current speak.

Signature

Frank ess
(One such adventure: fun but wearing)

R H Draney - 09 Jan 2007 01:18 GMT
Frank ess filted:

>> I'll have to check with her to find out what scene it's in, but my
>> mother was an extra in it....
>
>"Background artist" in current speak.

They used to call them "atmosphere"....r

Signature

"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

Amethyst Deceiver - 09 Jan 2007 15:10 GMT
>> I'll have to check with her to find out what scene it's in, but my
>> mother was an extra in it....
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "Background artist" in current speak.

You don't get "Extras" yet, then?
Signature

Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary

the Omrud - 09 Jan 2007 15:17 GMT
spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it:

> >> I'll have to check with her to find out what scene it's in, but my
> >> mother was an extra in it....
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> You don't get "Extras" yet, then?

I see that Maggie (Ashley Jensen) has made it across the pond - she
has what seems to be a permanent role in Ugly Betty.

Signature

David
=====

Tony Cooper - 09 Jan 2007 16:07 GMT
>spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>I see that Maggie (Ashley Jensen) has made it across the pond - she
>has what seems to be a permanent role in Ugly Betty.

We did get "Extras" on BBCA.  Jensen appeared in 12 episodes of
"Extras", but has already done 11 episodes of "Ugly Betty".  
Signature


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

the Omrud - 09 Jan 2007 16:19 GMT
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it:

> >spam@lindsayendell.co.uk had it:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> We did get "Extras" on BBCA.  Jensen appeared in 12 episodes of
> "Extras", but has already done 11 episodes of "Ugly Betty".  

It's not obvious, but she was unknown before her role in Extras.  
She's been acting for about 20 years but success has arrived rather
suddenly.

And we've only had one episode of Ugly Betty so far.  I'm a bit
unimpressed with the level of ugliness available to Hollywood
casting.  Could they really not do any better than that?  I mean, if
she combed her hair she'd be beautiful.

Signature

David
=====

Tony Cooper - 09 Jan 2007 16:32 GMT
>tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>casting.  Could they really not do any better than that?  I mean, if
>she combed her hair she'd be beautiful.

As the show progresses you will see that she is (physically) ugly only
in the milieu in which she works.  
Signature


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

the Omrud - 09 Jan 2007 16:33 GMT
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it:

> >And we've only had one episode of Ugly Betty so far.  I'm a bit
> >unimpressed with the level of ugliness available to Hollywood
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> As the show progresses you will see that she is (physically) ugly only
> in the milieu in which she works.  

What, you mean the office with all the ugly old harridans?

Signature

David
=====

Roland Hutchinson - 10 Jan 2007 05:29 GMT
> And we've only had one episode of Ugly Betty so far.  I'm a bit
> unimpressed with the level of ugliness available to Hollywood
> casting.  Could they really not do any better than that?  I mean, if
> she combed her hair she'd be beautiful.

America Ferrera has been on many talk shows stateside promoting the show,
with combed hair, sans braces and eyeglasses, and in her own makeup rather
than her character's.

You are not wrong, sir.

Signature

Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.

Marius Hancu - 09 Jan 2007 00:41 GMT
> I don't have an answer for you, but I do want to thank you for quoting
> enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
> doubt that not reading it is the best course of action for me.

That would be a loss for you, as you won't get to read great passages
such as this one:

---------
A month from now, in early April, at the time when far away, outside
the city, the water hyacinths would be covering every inch of bayou,
lagoon, creek and backwater with a spiritual-mauve to obscene-purple,
violent, vulgar, fleshy, solid, throttling mass of bloom over the black
water, and the first heart-breaking, misty green, like girlhood dreams,
on the old cypresses would have settled  down to be leaf and not a
damn else, and the arm-thick, mud-colored, slime-thick mocassins would
heave out of the swamp and try to cross the highway and your front
tire hitting one would give a slight bump and make a sound like
ker-whush and a tinny thump when he slapped heavily up against the
underside of the fender, and the insects would come boiling out of the
swamps and day and night the whole air would vibrate with them with a
sound like an electric fan, and if it was night the owls back in the
swamps would be whooing and moaning like love and death and damnation
or one would sail out of the pitch dark into the rays of your
headlights and plunge against  the radiator to explode like ripped
feather bolster, and the sticky grass which the cattle gorge on and
never get flesh over their ribs for that grass is in that black soil
and no matter how far the roots could ever go, if the roots were God
knows how deep, there would never be anything but that black,
grease-colored soil and no stone down there to put calcium into that
grass--well, a month from now, in early April, when all those things
would be happening beyond the suburbs, the husks of the fold houses in
the street where Anne Stanton and I were walking around would, if it
were evening, crack and spill out onto the stoops and into the street
all that live which was now sealed up within.

All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 348
--------

I'm quite impressed with RPW at this stage in the novel.

Marius Hancu
Marius Hancu - 09 Jan 2007 00:45 GMT
> all that live which was now sealed up within.

all that life (my typo, sorry).
Snidely - 10 Jan 2007 21:27 GMT
> > all that live which was now sealed up within.
>
> all that life (my typo, sorry).

Fold houses?

It's close enough to something meaningful that I *want* it to mean
something ....

The passage cited certainly is evocative.

/dps
Tony Cooper - 09 Jan 2007 00:52 GMT
>> I don't have an answer for you, but I do want to thank you for quoting
>> enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
>> doubt that not reading it is the best course of action for me.
>
>That would be a loss for you, as you won't get to read great passages
>such as this one:

I'm with you.  Any book has passages that don't quite make it to the
reader.  Most readers just skim over them because the overall context
is good...even gripping.  We really don't need to understand the
author's meaning in every paragraph to like a book.

I don't know if you are a particularly careful reader, or if you are
combining pleasure reading with improving your understanding of
idiomatic English.  The latter, I think.

ATKM is a very good book, and well worth a read both for the style and
for the glimpse of history.

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Oleg Lego - 09 Jan 2007 03:19 GMT
The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly:

>> I don't have an answer for you, but I do want to thank you for quoting
>> enough of _All the King's Men_ so that I will not have a moment's
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>violent, vulgar, fleshy, solid, throttling mass of bloom over the black
>water, and the first heart-breaking, misty green, like girlhood dreams,

I got to here, and gave up, nearly just deleting the posting. In a fit
of determination, I carried on, and found a bit of pretty good writing

>on the old cypresses would have settled  down to be leaf and not a
>damn else,

Ahh.. here it is...

> and the arm-thick, mud-colored, slime-thick mocassins would
>heave out of the swamp and try to cross the highway and your front
>tire hitting one would give a slight bump and make a sound like
>ker-whush and a tinny thump when he slapped heavily up against the
>underside of the fender,

Pretty good, but it deserves a sentence of its own, or perhaps two,
don't you think?

> and the insects would come boiling out of the
>swamps and day and night the whole air would vibrate with them with a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>feather bolster, and the sticky grass which the cattle gorge on and
>never get flesh over their ribs for that grass is in that black soil

Gaaahhh! That's as far as I can find the stomach for. The guy's period
key is obviously missing. Wait. I cheated, and see there is one near
the end, but I'm afraid I can't get to it in the traditional manner.

>and no matter how far the roots could ever go, if the roots were God
>knows how deep, there would never be anything but that black,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>I'm quite impressed with RPW at this stage in the novel.

The man has the stamina of a pit bull.
Mike Lyle - 11 Jan 2007 18:19 GMT
[...]
> >[RPW quote]feather bolster, and the sticky grass which the cattle gorge on and
> >never get flesh over their ribs for that grass is in that black soil
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >
> >All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 348
[...]

Cattle in highland areas of the Br Is seem to fatten up pretty nicely
on acid soils, though. From a pastoralist point of view, one or several
of a number of other factors could be in play here: some intestinal
parasite? Or perhaps the local agricultural advisory service might
diagnose an infestation of that well-known weed, authorius ignoramus,
subsp. volubilis hyperimaginativus.

Signature

Mike.

Robin Bignall - 11 Jan 2007 22:18 GMT
>[...]
>> >[RPW quote]feather bolster, and the sticky grass which the cattle gorge on and
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>diagnose an infestation of that well-known weed, authorius ignoramus,
>subsp. volubilis hyperimaginativus.

Veni, vedi, Michaelis extractum.
Signature

Robin
Herts, England

 
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