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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007Biscuit-eaters
Hello: Any connotations in "biscuit-eaters?" ----- The second day I was in Texas. I was traveling through the part where the flat-footed bilious, frog-sticker-toting Baptist biscuit-eaters live. All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 386 ----- Thanks. Marius Hancu >Hello: > >Any connotations in "biscuit-eaters?" A "poor, landless white". http://www2.umt.edu/comm/wint96/biscuit.htm The "frog-sticker" is a sheath knife. >----- >The second day I was in Texas. I was traveling through the part where [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Thanks. >Marius Hancu  SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >Any connotations in "biscuit-eaters?" > > A "poor, landless white". http://www2.umt.edu/comm/wint96/biscuit.htm OK, thanks. I imagined it has something to do with "poor." > The "frog-sticker" is a sheath knife. This I know, but I thought about fighting some other ethnicities:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu >> >Any connotations in "biscuit-eaters?" >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > This I know, but I thought about fighting some other ethnicities:-) I'm sure that's the right explanation for Marius's question, but did anyone else think of Garisson Keillor and his "sponsor", "Powd ermilk Biscuits". In the early days of PHC, at least, he used to refer with some regularity (no pun intended) to "the biscuit eaters in the balcony" and the like. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. The Marius Hancu entity posted thusly: >> >Any connotations in "biscuit-eaters?" >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >This I know, but I thought about fighting some other ethnicities:-) No chance. Other ethnicities would fight back. > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren, p. 386 > ----- Can waste your time by having a guess at this for my own amusement, even though a Usan will at once appear to give an authoritative answer? Thank you. A "biscuit" is pretty well what I'd call a "scone", and in redneck-type areas they eat them with gravy to fill up cheaply. (I have to say, it sounds pretty good, cheap or not.) SignatureMike. >> Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >areas they eat them with gravy to fill up cheaply. (I have to say, it >sounds pretty good, cheap or not.) Now wait just a minute, here. Biscuits and gravy are a staple in the south as well as in The South. They are eaten by tassle-loafer shod, blazer-wearing respectable Southern gentlemen (and even lawyers) in the south and The South, and not just by dirt farmers with sunburned necks. You try drop-fried biscuits made in a black cast iron frying pan and then smothered in red-eye gravy and then tell me if they are eaten just to keep your belly-button from pressing on your spine. I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >> Hello: > >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys > for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. I did _mean_ it when I said "I have to say, it sounds pretty good, cheap or not" above. Marius asked for literary connotations, and I reckon I done pretty good. SignatureMike. >>> Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the south and The South, and not just by dirt farmers with sunburned > necks. But known mainly to the Brits because of: Papa said to Mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas "Well Billy Joe never had a lick of sense, pass the biscuits, please" > I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys > for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. We eat kipper sandwiches too. And all kinds of kidleys tfff-tfff-tfff SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>> Hello: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >And all kinds of kidleys >tfff-tfff-tfff Used to eat calf's brains, considered a delicacy at the UCP restaurants-- would not eat them now, or kidneys for that matter. Never did like tripe. >>>>> Hello: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> And all kinds of kidleys >> tfff-tfff-tfff > Used to eat calf's brains, considered a delicacy > at the UCP restaurants-- would not eat them > now, or kidneys for that matter. > Never did like tripe. Me neither. Which was embarrassing since my Uncle and cousins were tripe dressers (and in competition with UCP in Manchester). SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>>> Hello: >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >Me neither. Which was embarrassing since my Uncle and cousins were tripe >dressers (and in competition with UCP in Manchester). Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and much appreciated by all of the foreign assignees, including Americans. In fact, when IBM Europe's HQ moved out from Paris to La Defense, so many of them boycotted their (standard international cuisine) canteen for the French one that IBM France eventually instituted a badge check on the door and only their own employees were allowed into the canteen. Calve's brains, simmered and served with a piquant sauce and mashed potatoes, are delicious. Unfortunately, here in the UK BSE put an end to their purchase. SignatureRobin Herts, England > Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes > were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > potatoes, are delicious. Unfortunately, here in the UK BSE put an end > to their purchase. One calf, one calf's brain. Many calves, many calves' brains. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes >> were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and much [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >One calf, one calf's brain. >Many calves, many calves' brains. Oops. Maybe I ate too many. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>> Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes >>> were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Oops. Maybe I ate too many. I am curious about this. When you order brains, how are they served. Is it one calf's brain, and is it the whole brain (2 lobes?). Kidneys come in two separate parts, or organs, and I suspect that, as with brains, they are listed most often on menus in the plural, though I don't know how big an order is from menu-to-plate. The brains/brain problem brought to my mind the similar treatment of sweetbread(s). The neck sweatbread (thymus) probably is multi-lobed, but I think an entree would consist of an entire sweetbread. Ditto the "stomach sweetbread", or pancreas (of lamb or calf, usually). But I have always heard the item as "sweetbreads", though the singular form gets a lot more hits in dictionaries. (I love sweetbreads, but have never had brains. Hah! Kidneys leave me cold.) The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: >I am curious about this. When you order brains, how are they served. >Is it one calf's brain, and is it the whole brain (2 lobes?). Kidneys [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >(I love sweetbreads, but have never had brains. Hah! Kidneys leave me >cold.) This is fascinating. All my life I have thought that sweetbreads were testicles. I have no idea where I learned that bit of misinformation (if it is truly misinformation). In looking for references, while searching on "Rocky Mountain Oysters" and "Montana Tendergroin", I found a great joke... ----- One day a man was visiting a small Mexican city. He walked into a restaurant and was surrounded by a wonderful smell. He could hardly wait to try the local cuisine. He asked "What smells so good?" The waiter said "Once a week we have a bull fight around here. What you smell is Rocky Mountain Oysters from the bull. I am sorry sir, but you will have to wait until next week to get some because only one person can be served as there is but one bull in the fight." So the next week the man goes in and orders the Rocky Mountain Oysters. He is in luck because he got there and ordered them first. They were frying and he smelled the wonderful smell and could hardly wait. When they were brought out however, he was disappointed in the size of them. The ones he saw served the last week had been bigger. He ate them and before leaving he commented that they had been small. "Well I am sorry Señor, but sometimes the bull he wins!" > The Pat Durkin entity posted thusly: >>But I have always heard the item as "sweetbreads", though the singular >>form gets a lot more hits in dictionaries. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > "Well I am sorry Señor, but sometimes the bull he wins!" Funny. (Well, it depends on the point of view.) But seriously. . .I wonder about the difference in taste and texture between the run-of-the-mill mountain oysters (calf testicles) and the full-fledged bull products. And do the Mexicans or Spaniards use a different word when presenting either of those items as food? (Other than "cojon(es)". Or maybe in addition to it. I am under the impression that cojones is a bit "impolite" in Spanish.) I think that Anthony Bourdain or that Brit who specializes in weird foods (both in Asia someplace), ate something referred to as "bull testicles" by the diner, but there was no certification that the food was from a mature animal. > This is fascinating. All my life I have thought that sweetbreads were > testicles. I have no idea where I learned that bit of misinformation > (if it is truly misinformation). I worked, back in early 1970s, with someone who had trained as a butcher. He told me that "sweetbreads" were testicles. I maintained that they came from the pancreas, as my father had always told me. I assumed it was a London thing. Fran >> This is fascinating. All my life I have thought that sweetbreads were >> testicles. I have no idea where I learned that bit of misinformation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >they came from the pancreas, as my father had always told me. I assumed >it was a London thing. ObBread: Testicles could be "sweetrolls" or even "sweetbaps". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>> This is fascinating. All my life I have thought that sweetbreads were >>> testicles. I have no idea where I learned that bit of misinformation [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >ObBread: Testicles could be "sweetrolls" or even "sweetbaps". In a west London butcher's shop I once saw sheep's testicles on offer as sheep's eggs. SignatureRobin Herts, England On 11 Jan 2007, Robin Bignall wrote >>>> This is fascinating. All my life I have thought that >>>> sweetbreads were testicles. I have no idea where I learned [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > In a west London butcher's shop I once saw sheep's testicles on > offer as sheep's eggs. I be they just did that to confuse the hell out of lacto-ovo- vegetarians. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van HVS filted: >On 11 Jan 2007, Robin Bignall wrote > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I be they just did that to confuse the hell out of lacto-ovo- >vegetarians. Or to draw in clientele who pronounce "hors d'ouevres" as "horse ovaries"....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >>>> Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes >>>> were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >(I love sweetbreads, but have never had brains. Hah! Kidneys leave me >cold.) Brains were served sliced about a quarter of an inch thick, and the piquant sauce contained capers. I like sweetbreads poached in a white wine sauce with a sprinkling of sliced shallots and mushrooms, and served in large vol-au-vent cases. (They're larger than the vol-au-vents one sees at cocktail parties, and are called bouche a la reine cases in France). The worst sweetbreads I ever had were wrapped in very greasy pastry and deep fried, in an Alsace restaurant that wife1 and I used to visit on special occasions such as birthdays and anniversaries. They were so sickly and cloying that I couldn't eat them. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>Calve's brains, tripe and other examples of traditional offal dishes >>were often on the menu in an IBM France canteen in the 1970s, and much [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > One calf, one calf's brain. > Many calves, many calves' brains. True, but for some weird reason, it's always referred to as "brains". Maybe because the most common dish is sheep's brain, which is so small it needs to be plural. SignatureRob Bannister > Me neither. Which was embarrassing since my Uncle and cousins were tripe > dressers (and in competition with UCP in Manchester). I've seen a lot of "celebs" who dress like that. SignatureRob Bannister In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: >> Used to eat calf's brains, considered a delicacy >> at the UCP restaurants-- would not eat them [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Me neither. Which was embarrassing since my Uncle and cousins were tripe >dressers (and in competition with UCP in Manchester). The Union of Congolese Patriots dresses tripe in Manchester? SignatureV >In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >The Union of Congolese Patriots dresses tripe in Manchester? United Cattle Products -- leading me once to ask Me Nan in all innocence why they had to unite them if they were all together in the cow in the first place. I was promptly told to shut up and eat me oonicawm because there's children in Africa would give their eye teeth for a nice plate of tripe like that, young man. Cue me asking why African children's teeth had eyes if nobody's at my school did. I was promptly told....) SignatureArchie Valparaiso In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote: >United Cattle Products -- leading me once to ask Me Nan in all >innocence why they had to unite them if they were all together in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >African children's teeth had eyes if nobody's at my school did. I was >promptly told....) ... That you'd get a clip round the ear. "But Nan I had me hair cut last week." SignatureV Ho ho >In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >The Union of Congolese Patriots dresses tripe in Manchester? When I first set foot in Manchester I went to a cafe for a bite to eat. I asked for a ham roll. "Sorry Love, but I can do you a ham barmcake." Not knowing what I was ordering I replied "Yes, thank you". All was well and I left the UCP cafe happy. It was some time latter that I learnt that the cafe was run by a company called United Cattle Products. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > When I first set foot in Manchester I went to a cafe for a bite to > eat. I asked for a ham roll. "Sorry Love, but I can do you a ham > barmcake." Not knowing what I was ordering I replied "Yes, thank > you". All was well and I left the UCP cafe happy. I'm still not sure what you ordered. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Your claim might have more 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |credibility if you hadn't mispelled Palo Alto, CA 94304 |"inteligent" kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> When I first set foot in Manchester I went to a cafe for a bite to >> eat. I asked for a ham roll. "Sorry Love, but I can do you a ham >> barmcake." Not knowing what I was ordering I replied "Yes, thank >> you". All was well and I left the UCP cafe happy. > >I'm still not sure what you ordered. A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. There is an image of one that has been split and toasted: http://static.flickr.com/17/23348590_e7d7045c45_o.jpg Imagine an untoasted one of those with sliced ham sandwiched between the two halves. Barm is a yeasty raising agent: http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1 861588932 barm noun Definition: yeasty foam on liquor: the foam that rises to the surface during the fermentation of malt liquor [ Old English beorma < Germanic] I don't know whether that foam is used in the making of barm cakes today. Clarissa Hyman of the Guild of Food Writers (UK) states: http://www.gfw.co.uk/stirwords/words0399ch.html However, I was delighted to find recently on the Internet, that one Northern speciality had made a bid for world-wide fame - the barm cake. The self-styled Barm Barmy Army now has its own Wigan-based web site, the Barm Cake Zone. They define the barm as "an advanced bread roll, slightly bigger with a slightly harder top and with a slightly heavier dough inside - more suitable for soaking up the grease from chips in the chip barm". Variations include not just chips, but the sausage barm, the bacon barm and salad barm. Southern buns (of the English not American kind) are dismissed as "barms working under cover" or as "wannabe barms". As for other Northern contenders, such as the beautifully named oven bottom - these are simply too flat and too hard on the surface to qualify. The genre, however, reaches its apotheosis in the legendary Wigan Kebab, a combination of the two classics - namely, a meat pie in a barm cake. Good grief! SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. > > There is an image of one that has been split and toasted: > http://static.flickr.com/17/23348590_e7d7045c45_o.jpg Looks like a hamburger bun to me. -=Eric >> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. >> >> There is an image of one that has been split and toasted: >> http://static.flickr.com/17/23348590_e7d7045c45_o.jpg > > Looks like a hamburger bun to me. In which case, how does it differ from a BrE "bap"? SignatureSalvatore Volatile > >> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > In which case, how does it differ from a BrE "bap"? I dunno from baps. I dunno from barmcakes either; I just said it *looked* like a hamburger bun. -=Eric >>> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >In which case, how does it differ from a BrE "bap"? Almost certainly by taste and texture. If I ever made a comparison between them it was too long ago to recall. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) me@privacy.net had it: > >> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > In which case, how does it differ from a BrE "bap"? I've written essays here in the past about UK bread product naming conventions. It's no use asking us en masse what any individual bread item is called since no two of us were born in the same village. SignatureDavid ===== >me@privacy.net had it: >> >> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >bread item is called since no two of us were born in the same >village. Pending conformation from John Dean (the only other natchal-bone Manc here, I think), I should point out that your bog-standard barmcake has changed over the years. It is true that present-day barmcakes are largely indistinguishable from what elsewhere Oop North are called "teacakes" or -- Gawd 'elp us -- "baps" (i.e. like large hamburger buns but with a liberal sprinkling of flour instead of sesame seeds), but this is just yet another tragic consequence of globalisation. No, WIWAL, a proper barmcake was larger and flatter than a teacake, and had a definite hint of yeastiness about it (which should come as no surprise, since "barm" is an old word for yeast froth). So, rather than the barmcake's leftpond congnate being a hamburger bun, I think it may have slightly more in common -- at least in terms of its original texture -- with what Americans for reasons best known to themselves call an "English muffin". SignatureArchie Valparaiso >>me@privacy.net had it: >>> >> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Pending conformation from John Dean (the only other natchal-bone Manc >here, I think), One other, at least! Trafford Park, 1920's. > It is true that present-day barmcakes are > largely indistinguishable from what elsewhere Oop North are called > "teacakes" or -- Gawd 'elp us -- "baps" (i.e. like large hamburger > buns but with a liberal sprinkling of flour instead of sesame seeds), > but this is just yet another tragic consequence of globalisation. Instead of sesame seeds? The canonical hamburger bun does not have sesame seeds (though a liberal, at least, sprinkling of flour is not necessarily any more likely). Historically, an attempt to associate hamburger buns with sesame seeds is associatable with McDonald's, which made a point of requiring the Big Mac product to use a "sesame seed bun", but McDonald's continued to use seedless buns for its other hamburger varieties. SignatureSalvatore Volatile >>> A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > In which case, how does it differ from a BrE "bap"? Barm cakes are generally bigger. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > > A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. > > > > There is an image of one that has been split and toasted: > > http://static.flickr.com/17/23348590_e7d7045c45_o.jpg > > Looks like a hamburger bun to me. Here's the wikipedia entry (usual caveats about that, of course): <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barmcake> Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) defaultuserbr@yahoo.com had it: > > > A "barmcake" or "barm cake" is a bread bun. > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barmcake> You kid not. With all seriousness it offers this: "Bap (often a larger soft roll, say 5-6 inches in diameter). Word has existed since 16th century, and stands for barm and pastry." Oh yes? It doesn't even sound likely. SignatureDavid ===== >defaultuserbr@yahoo.com had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Oh yes? It doesn't even sound likely. A very mild comment. Compact OED agrees with the 16th century dating. It says the word is Scottish [Etymol. unknown]. It gives a quote from "Sowens, farles and baps". Sowens http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Sowens&r=66 sow·ens –noun (used with a singular verb) Scot., Irish English. porridge made from oat bran or husks that have been soaked in water, slightly fermented, and then boiled. [Origin: 1575–85; < ScotGael s?ghan, deriv. of s?gh sap] [? represents ù, u with a grave type accent.] Another dictionary says that the English English equivalent is Flummery. Compact OED: Flummery [a. Welsh "llymru", of unknown etymology] 'A kind of food made by coagulation of wheat-flour or oatmeal' In modern cookery flummery is a name given to various sweet dishes made from milk, flour, eggs, etc." "Flummery" is an English pronunciation of the Welsh "llymru". Farle (now Farl) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farl A farl (reduced form of the Scots fardel) is a term used in Northern Ireland and Scotland for some roughly triangular flat breads and cakes, traditionally made by cutting a round into four pieces. In Northern Ireland it generally refers to soda bread and potato bread/cakes (potato farls). While soda bread can be made like normal breads, it is made into farls for use in the Ulster fry. A farl is a flat piece of bread about 3/4 inch thick with a rough quarter circle shape. ... As an eater of soda farls I can confirm that description. As for the general unlikeliness of the idea of bap being an acronym for "Barm And Pastry", see: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=acronym 1943 coinage from acro-, comb. form of Gk. akros "tip, end" (see acrid) + Eng. -onym "name" (abstracted from homonym; see name). The practice was non-existent before 20c. except in cabalistic esoterica and acrostic poetry. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >Compact OED agrees with the 16th century dating. It says the word is >Scottish [Etymol. unknown]. > >It gives a quote from "Sowens, farles and baps". It gives a quote from 1724: "Sowens, farles and baps". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [ ... ] > >We eat kipper sandwiches too. > >And all kinds of kidleys [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > now, or kidneys for that matter. > Never did like tripe. When I first came to live in France 20 years ago I was quite clear in my mind that It did _not_ like tripe. However, I discovered that I did like andouillettes quite a lot, and was happily eating them for a year or so before I learned that they were made of tripe. Subsequently (though not immediately) I decided that it was not logically tenable to continue saying that I didn't like tripe, and I've come to find other things made of tripe that I like a lot (like pieds et paquets). Kidneys I've always liked, though it's perhaps best not to be around to smell them while they're being cooked. athel On 09 Jan 2007, athel...@yahoo wrote > [ ... ] >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Kidneys I've always liked, though it's perhaps best not to be > around to smell them while they're being cooked. I'm very fond of both liver and kidneys, and invariably order the latter when I see them on a menu. (I've heard that the best way to cook them is to put them in a pot and boil the piss out of them. Boom. Boom.) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 09 Jan 2007, athel...@yahoo wrote > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > (I've heard that the best way to cook them is to put them in a pot > and boil the piss out of them. Boom. Boom.) The steak and kidney pie has long been a Brit favourite. And the chip shops of the North can boast a nifty steak and kidney pudding. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote >> I'm very fond of both liver and kidneys, and invariably order >> the latter when I see them on a menu. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > chip shops of the North can boast a nifty steak and kidney > pudding. My big disappointment with steak-and-kidney pies is that they put too much steak in them and not nearly enough kidney. The makers of "quality" pies even seem *proud* of this. Bah. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Bah. I like what kidney does to the gravy but don't like the actual texture. Try ordering a "sanke and pygmy" pie, with a straight face. I have only once had someone pick up on this (with appropriate giggles). SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >texture. Try ordering a "sanke and pygmy" pie, with a straight face. I >have only once had someone pick up on this (with appropriate giggles). "Snake and pygmy", that is. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. Richard Bollard filted: >>I like what kidney does to the gravy but don't like the actual >>texture. Try ordering a "sanke and pygmy" pie, with a straight face. I >>have only once had someone pick up on this (with appropriate giggles). > >"Snake and pygmy", that is. "Half of one, six dozen of the other" flies right by 'em, too....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Richard Bollard filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "Half of one, six dozen of the other" flies right by 'em, too....r You guys are _evil_. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > "Snake and pygmy", that is. Perhaps that's because they've heard it too often in the past. "Snake and pygmy" is the standard term for "steak and kidney" in our family. Fran Frances Kemmish wrote, in <50n03bF1gne1iU2@mid.individual.net> on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:32:31 -0500: > >>>On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote > >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Perhaps that's because they've heard it too often in the past. "Snake > and pygmy" is the standard term for "steak and kidney" in our family. Kate and Sidney in ours. SignatureNick Spalding [...] >>>I like what kidney does to the gravy but don't like the actual >>>texture. Try ordering a "sanke and pygmy" pie, with a straight face. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Perhaps that's because they've heard it too often in the past. "Snake >and pygmy" is the standard term for "steak and kidney" in our family. Yebbut the very occasional, and valued, delayed reaction when it sinks in argues against familarity. Contrariwise, the lack of a reaction could indicate either one that went through to the keeper or bored familiarity. In Australia, however, I would expect a semi-polite acknowledgement of the joke, there are non-offensive ways of signalling that yes, I've heard it before. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. The Frances Kemmish entity posted thusly: >>>>On 09 Jan 2007, John Dean wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Perhaps that's because they've heard it too often in the past. "Snake >and pygmy" is the standard term for "steak and kidney" in our family. Same here, along with "Finch and Chimps". >> On 09 Jan 2007, athel...@yahoo wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >The steak and kidney pie has long been a Brit favourite. And the chip shops >of the North can boast a nifty steak and kidney pudding. Holland's! A Blend of Prime Diced Steak and Kidney in rich delicious gravy steamed in Holland's unique pastry. Contains: Colour and Emulsifier. 22% Beef and 4% Beef Kidney. Allergy Advice. Contains: Wheat and Gluten. (Linz: "Aw, bugger".) http://www.hollandspies.co.uk/products/chipshop/2.aspx SignatureArchie Valparaiso > Holland's! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > (Linz: "Aw, bugger".) You're doing it on purpose now. *huff* SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >[ ... ] >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >athel My daughter, who is fluent in French, let me order andouillettes without letting on what they were made from, some near retching' occurred even as they were being consumed. >[ ... ] >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >to continue saying that I didn't like tripe, and I've come to find >other things made of tripe that I like a lot (like pieds et paquets). It was by living in France that I also learned to like tripe. My mother used to cook it in the traditional English way, with onions in milk. It looked like something the cat spewed up and to my palate when I was a nipper its taste and texture were not attractive. But in that IBM France canteen I mentioned previously they cooked it in a dark, spicy sauce and it was delicious. >Kidneys I've always liked, though it's perhaps best not to be around to >smell them while they're being cooked. Ken Hom's recipe for preparing what he calls 'velvet kidneys' is well worth the time. After washing the kidneys and cutting them into bite-sized chunks you spread them out on a dish and bury them in sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), making sure that they're covered. I usually leave them in the fridge overnight. Then you wash them thoroughly in a colander, put them in a deep dish and cover them with vinegar for an hour. Then you rinse them off and use them as normal in your favourite recipe. The process removes the acid, tenderises them and makes them melt in the mouth. SignatureRobin Herts, England > vinegar for an hour. Then you rinse them off and use them as normal > in your favourite recipe. The process removes the acid, tenderises > them and makes them melt in the mouth. I actually prefer them fast-fried so that they're quite hard on the outside. SignatureRob Bannister > Kidneys I've always liked, though it's perhaps best not to be around to > smell them while they're being cooked. Hmm, I think the smell of sheep's kidneys cooking is delicious, but pig's kidney, which I also like eating, can smell a bit off-putting. Calves' kidney, the best, smells appetising too. SignatureRob Bannister >> Kidneys I've always liked, though it's perhaps best not to be around to >> smell them while they're being cooked. > > Hmm, I think the smell of sheep's kidneys cooking is delicious, but > pig's kidney, which I also like eating, can smell a bit off-putting. > Calves' kidney, the best, smells appetising too. In England we would buy pork chops with part of the kidney attached. I don't think I have ever seen chops for sale like that in the US. Fran > >> Hello: > >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys > for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. Grits have the flavor and consistancy of boiled and buttered sand. The Ray O'Hara entity posted thusly: >> >> Hello: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Grits have the flavor and consistancy of boiled and buttered sand. No! Sand has flavour and actual texture. >I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys >for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. I enjoyed grits when I had them in Texas, but never had the pleasure of biscuits and gravy because I suspect that I wouldn't have found them on any hotel menu. All of my many trips to America involved large meetings with people from many countries, too many for any individual American to invite back to his home. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys >>for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > large meetings with people from many countries, too many for any > individual American to invite back to his home. Biscuits and gravy is served in a fair number of restaurants. One regional (Midwest, Mid-Atlantic, and parts of the South) casual-dining chain even boasts biscuits and sausage gravy as its signature dish: http://www.bobevans.com A google on <"sausage gravy" restaurant [your-destination]> will probably find you some if you have occasion to visit again. There are lots of recipes on the web if you want to try cooking from scratch, too. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb kidneys >>>for breakfast, but can't stomach grits or biscuits and gravy. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >find you some if you have occasion to visit again. There are lots of >recipes on the web if you want to try cooking from scratch, too. Alas, my travelling days are over, but cooking from scratch is a possibility. Are those biscuits or their dough available in the UK? SignatureRobin Herts, England > Alas, my travelling days are over, but cooking from scratch is a > possibility. Are those biscuits or their dough available in the UK? Any moderately decent buttermilk biscuit recipe will do. This is a decent example of the genre (by no means the best, but I'm lazy, and it looks about right): http://chitterlings.com/biscuits.html As for the gravy, you're basically making a bechamel, only with ground pork sausage (patties and/or links will NOT do, and pork is more or less required for authenticity's sake). Brown some sausage (around here it comes in 1 lb packages, but that much is not required), throw in some flour, and stir until the flour browns, as in a roux. Add about 12-16 times as much milk as you did flour (i.e., for every tablespoon of flour, add 3/4-1 cup of milk). You're looking for a relatively thick consistency, but not so thick it won't pour. Salt and pepper to taste. -=Eric > As for the gravy, you're basically making a bechamel, only with ground > pork sausage (patties and/or links will NOT do, and pork is more or > less required for authenticity's sake). Around here, sausage meat (AmE sausage?) is definitely not as good as the stuff that comes in real sausages (AmE links?). So you buy sausages, slit them lengthways and extract the meat. This is of course more expensive than buying sausage meat. SignatureRob Bannister >> As for the gravy, you're basically making a bechamel, only with ground >> pork sausage (patties and/or links will NOT do, and pork is more or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >slit them lengthways and extract the meat. This is of course more >expensive than buying sausage meat. Depends on the sausage I think. Your bog standard, pink 'n' fatty supermarket snags "meat" can usually be bought sans skins. Decent sausage-mince doesn't seem to be available, unfortunately. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>> As for the gravy, you're basically making a bechamel, only with ground >>> pork sausage (patties and/or links will NOT do, and pork is more or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >supermarket snags "meat" can usually be bought sans skins. Decent >sausage-mince doesn't seem to be available, unfortunately. Same here. When I make a sausage-based stuffing for chicken I always cut good sausages open rather than use sausage meat. Incidentally, I bought a sausage-stuffing gizmo and a supply of skins a while ago and experimented with making my own sausages. It's not easy to make a banger that is anywhere near as good as the higher-quality bought ones. OTOH I have great success with making my own pork pies either with or without the boiled egg in the middle. Hot water pastry is dead simple, and there always seems to be too much salt in the bought pies. SignatureRobin Herts, England > OTOH I have great success with making my own pork pies either with or > without the boiled egg in the middle. Hot water pastry is dead > simple, and there always seems to be too much salt in the bought pies. For some reason, however, it seems next to impossible to make a genuine Melton Mowbray pork pie. Of course, even in Melton, people swear by a particular pie shop and refuse eat the products from others. I wonder what the situation is there now: there used to be only 3 pie shops - the ones from Saxby were considered totally inferior. It's a bit different with Melton's other main product: stilton cheese (I'm not counting Chappie). Apparently, it's OK to eat stilton from as far away as Long Clawson. SignatureRob Bannister > For some reason, however, it seems next to impossible to make a genuine > Melton Mowbray pork pie. Of course, even in Melton, people swear by a > particular pie shop and refuse eat the products from others. I wonder > what the situation is there now: there used to be only 3 pie shops - the > ones from Saxby were considered totally inferior. I have fond memories of pork pies brought back from Melton by my Dad. No doubt it isn't the same now that Sainsburys sells Melton Mowbray pork pies. Now that I don't live in England any more, I am perfectly happy with the Sainsbury's version. I have tried the pork pies from Myers of Keswick in New York, but they don't come close to an authentic pie. Fran >> Alas, my travelling days are over, but cooking from scratch is a >> possibility. Are those biscuits or their dough available in the UK? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >relatively thick consistency, but not so thick it won't pour. Salt >and pepper to taste. Thanks, Eric and Pat. I'm going to the supermarket tomorrow and I'll see whether any biscuit mixes are available here. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>> Alas, my travelling days are over, but cooking from scratch is a >>> possibility. Are those biscuits or their dough available in the UK? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks, Eric and Pat. I'm going to the supermarket tomorrow and I'll > see whether any biscuit mixes are available here. Keep us posted. Biscuits are also possible without pre-packaged biscuit mix, in extremis. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>>I just don't understand a peoples who can eat kippers and lamb >>>>kidneys [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Alas, my travelling days are over, but cooking from scratch is a > possibility. Are those biscuits or their dough available in the UK? http://recipes.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Baking_Powder_Biscuit_Recipe_2 Several recipes at the above site. Google. I think Maria might chime in here with a recipe or two. And she might be able to top it off with a home sausage gravy recipe. (I call it white gravy, and it may or may not have meat added--sausage, shredded beef, or your own welsh rarebit preparation.) Some don't specify "baking-powder biscuit". There are a few commercially prepared mixes available. Betty Crocker's "Bisquick" was the first nationally advertised brand, I think. My sister, at some time or other, had a recipe for making her own mix at quite a savings, especially since she cooked for her husband and her self, plus 10 kids. Bisquick Recipes - 121 Free Bisquick Recipes, including favorites like Bisquick & Apple, Chicken, Pancakes, Sausages, and more... Recipes are all in Meal-Master text format, ... www.garvick.com/recipesmm/bisquick_recipes.htm I believe there are some frozen pre-made biscuits along the same line. They come in a tube, but I think you have to bake them all at once, as they explode out of the can. Calories in General Mills, Inc. - Pillsbury Grands Buttermilk ...Calorie and nutrition facts for Pillsbury Grands Buttermilk Biscuits, Refrigerated Dough from Calorie-Count.com. www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/18633.html This might be they(them?) I haven't tried them to see if they _taste_ like baking powder biscuits. Also, to order mixes: http://amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A3580681&page=1 Someone mentioned the movie "A Prairie Home Companion", for which the long-running radio show has as a stock transition song (and fake sponsor): Powdermilk Biscuits--Ain't they great? Lake Woebegone--where the women are strong, the men are good-looking, and the children are all above average. (Help me, someone, if I got that wrong!) > http://recipes.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Baking_Powder_Biscuit_Recipe_2 > > Several recipes at the above site. Google. I always associated buttermilk biscuits with biscuits and gravy-- not that you couldn't do it with baking powder biscuits, but the canonical variety always used buttermilk biscuits. Then again, my mother always loved to make them fresh, so that's probably how I got the idea; if she were going for the baking powder variety, she'd just as soon get the refrigerated pre-made variety. > There are a few commercially prepared mixes available. Betty Crocker's > "Bisquick" was the first nationally advertised brand, I think. My > sister, at some time or other, had a recipe for making her own mix at > quite a savings, especially since she cooked for her husband and her > self, plus 10 kids. I've used Alton Brown's "instant" pancake mix: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_13660,00.html to acclaim by all and sundry. I don't know, but suspect, it might also be good for biscuits and the like. It's great for pancakes. > I believe there are some frozen pre-made biscuits along the same line. > They come in a tube, but I think you have to bake them all at once, as > they explode out of the can. You can stick the extras in the refrigerator-- in a sealed bag, preferably-- and use them the next day. I wouldn't recommend waiting any longer. > Someone mentioned the movie "A Prairie Home Companion", for which the > long-running radio show has as a stock transition song (and fake [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and the children are all above average. (Help me, someone, if I got > that wrong!) I believe it's "... and all the children are above average." -=Eric >> http://recipes.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Baking_Powder_Biscuit_Recipe_2 >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > she were going for the baking powder variety, she'd just as soon get > the refrigerated pre-made variety. Same with BP stuff. Leftover biscuits are for sh.t. So. I always wondered who wrote the canons on biscuits, and everything else. I was thinking it might be Pachelbel. But there you have it. Your mother, huh? >> There are a few commercially prepared mixes available. Betty >> Crocker's [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > -=Eric > Same with BP stuff. Leftover biscuits are for sh.t. So. I always > wondered who wrote the canons on biscuits, and everything else. I was > thinking it might be Pachelbel. But there you have it. Your mother, > huh? As for Pachelbel, I can't say it any better than this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM (FWIW, I played euphonium, not cello, but the parts were *EXACTLY THE SAME*. No, I'm NOT BITTER, NOT AT ALL, WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?) As for the other, well, doesn't one's mother canonically define the way food ought to be made (unless it's one's father, of course)? -=Eric |
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