About the use of the definite article "the"

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akoamay - 08 Jan 2007 00:09 GMT

Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
the use of "the." It concerns the famous movie or story title of
"Beauty and the Beast" I wonder why it is not "The Beauty and the
Beast" so as to maintain of the uniformity of the wording just like
the famous novel title of "The Old Man and the Sea."

Another point is that since the word "beauty" in this title is a
countable noun, grammatically it must have either "a" or "the"
before it.

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Mark Brader - 08 Jan 2007 00:48 GMT

"Akoamay" writes:

> Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
> the use of "the." It concerns the famous movie or story title of
> "Beauty and the Beast" I wonder why it is not "The Beauty and the
> Beast" ...

Because Beauty is the character's name, or more precisely, nickname --
at least, this is true in the first version of the story in English
that I checked, <http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/btbst10.txt>.

It begins:

# There was once a very rich merchant, who had six children, three sons,
# and three daughters; being a man of sense, he spared no cost for their
# education, but gave them all kinds of masters. His daughters were
# extremely handsome, especially the youngest; when she was little, every
# body admired her, and called her The little Beauty; so that, as
# she grew up, she still went by the name of Beauty, which made her
# sisters very jealous. ...

(Obviously the tags are meant to indicate italics.)

The original French title is "La Belle et la Bête", which does literally
mean "The Beauty and the Beast". Project Gutenberg does not have an
online copy of this and I have never read it, so I don't know if the
character was known as "la Belle" (the Beauty) in the French version;
but it seems possible. As a general rule French uses articles more often
than English does.

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Mark Brader "You can do this in a number of ways.
Toronto IBM chose to do all of them...
msb@vex.net why do you find that funny?" --D. Taylor

My text in this article is in the public domain.

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Donna Richoux - 08 Jan 2007 02:10 GMT

> "Akoamay" writes:
> > Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> but it seems possible. As a general rule French uses articles more often
> than English does.

http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/ is a pretty good site to begin
looking at the history and comparative versions of fairy tales. It says
that Mme Villeneuve and Mme Beaumont gave the two earliest French
versions. I don't locate a Villeneuve version that says much of anything
useful, but the Beaumont is available on several sites, such as:

http://perso.orange.fr/chezhelene/page66.htm

This French version does use "la Belle" almost constantly throughout,
but does use plain "Belle" a few times, perhaps because of the
grammatical construction? For example, "à Belle".

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Best - Donna Richoux

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Purl Gurl - 08 Jan 2007 02:32 GMT

>> Akoamay writes:

(snipped)

>>> Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
>>> the use of "the."

>>The original French title is "La Belle et la Bête", which does literally
>>mean "The Beauty and the Beast".

> This French version does use "la Belle" almost constantly throughout,
> but does use plain "Belle" a few times, perhaps because of the
> grammatical construction? For example, "à Belle".

I would debate if translating French "la" to "the" is correct.
We widely accept this. However, if we translate "the woman" into
French, "la femme" and translate "the man" into French, "l'homme"
we quickly realize this is a gender distinction not a typical
article "the" as used in English.

My opinion is "la belle" would be _interpreted_ as "(female) beauty"
rather than _translated_ as "the (female) beauty" as usual.

"La Belle et la Bête" Does this not indicate the beast is female?
Readers, what is your take on this "la Bête" confusion?

I am not so sure French titles intend a "the" as we assume.

Taha

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Mark Brader - 08 Jan 2007 05:08 GMT

Mark Brader:

> > ...Beauty is the character's name, or more precisely, nickname --
> > at least, this is true in the first version of the story in English
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > (Obviously the tags are meant to indicate italics.)

> > The original French title is "La Belle et la Bête", which does literally
> > mean "The Beauty and the Beast". Project Gutenberg does not have an
> > online copy of this ...

Donna Richoux:

> http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/ is a pretty good site to begin
> looking at the history and comparative versions of fairy tales. It says
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> but does use plain "Belle" a few times, perhaps because of the
> grammatical construction?

I see what you mean. Grammatical construction isn't an issue; I think
the idea was simply that the girl was known by both forms of the name,
either Beauty or The Beauty. For fun, here's the Beaumont version of
the above passage:

# Il y avait une fois un marchand qui était extrêmement riche,
# il avait six enfants, trois garçons et trois filles, et comme ce
# marchand était un homme d'esprit il n'épargna rien pour l'éducation
# de ses enfants et leur donna les meilleurs maîtres. Ses filles
# étaient très belles mais la cadette surtout se faisait admirer et on
# l'appelait quand elle était petite " la belle enfant " en sorte que
# le nom lui resta ce qui donna beaucoup de jalousie à ses soeurs. ...

This is very close to the English wording above, except that what
people called her was not Belle (beautiful, or beauty in the sense
of a person, in the feminine form in either case) but "la belle enfant"
(the beautiful [female] child). However, thereafter she is just called
"la Belle" (the Beauty) or just "Belle".

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Mark Brader, Toronto "... pure English is de rigueur"
msb@vex.net -- Guardian Weekly

My text in this article is in the public domain, and so is the story.

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Don Phillipson - 08 Jan 2007 15:15 GMT

> . . . the idea was simply that the girl was known by both forms of the

name,

> either Beauty or The Beauty. For fun, here's the Beaumont version of
> the above passage:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> (the beautiful [female] child). However, thereafter she is just called
> "la Belle" (the Beauty) or just "Belle".

Since 1946, the Cocteau film has become the definitive
20th century version of this story (essential in anyone's
DVD library. . . ) Memory suggests that in this film:
-- everyone addresses the heroine as Belle, as a name;
-- she addresses the Beast as "La Bete," i.e. a title
rather than a personal name. He gets a name only
at the end when released from the spell that imprisons
him i.e. transformed into Belle's human suitor from the
early scenes.

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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

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akoamay - 08 Jan 2007 14:08 GMT

> Because Beauty is the character's name, or more precisely, nickname --
> at least, this is true in the first version of the story in English
> that I checked, <http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/btbst10.txt>.

Now I know. Thanks. I thought that "beauty" in the title "Beauty and
the Beast" is a beautiful woman, not a proper name.

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Purl Gurl - 08 Jan 2007 01:23 GMT

> It concerns the famous movie or story title of "Beauty and the Beast"
> I wonder why it is not "The Beauty and the Beast"

> Another point is that since the word "beauty" in this title is a
> countable noun, grammatically it must have either "a" or "the"
> before it.

Must? Who is to enforce this grammar rule? Are we to search out
tens of thousands of years of writings to be sure of use of definite
and indefinite articles as prescribed by grammar rules?

In my native tongue, we do not use articles. Now what?

Grammar rules are intended to be violated when we write artistic
works such as prose, poems, music, plays, titles and such. I am
certain a grammarian pedant will scream prose and poems are same,
then scream about my casting "grammarian" as an adjective.

Should we enforce strict rules of grammar, we would not enjoy
poetry, would not enjoy jokes, would not enjoy creative writing,
would not enjoy writings of thousands of years.

Grammar rules are for children, quite literally. Rules of grammar
establish baseline guidelines for language usage. Once basics are
learnt, then we are at liberty to slaughter language as we please.

Returning to Beauty And The Beast, beauty for this story is not
a unique singular beauty, not "the" beauty rather, in my view,
a collection of beauties presented by this wonderful story.

However, there is only one beast, _the_ beast, in this story;
a unique, singular beast.

How about, "Myriad Beauties And The Beast" for a title?

Beauty in this story is multiple. There is physical beauty,
there is beauty of learning, there is beauty of patience,
there is beauty of longing for another, there is beauty of love.

Most important beauty of this story is _the_ beauty of acceptance
of another who is different, very different.

Beauty And The Beast; plural beauty, singular beast.

Besides the author of this story decided on this title, what
are we do? Interesting this story enjoys many different titles
and this story is contributed to many different authors, which
includes Giovan Straparalo, Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve
and Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont. Who shall we chastise?

I say we chastise _the_ person who originated this folk tale
of hundreds of years, an unknown person.

The Phantom Of The Opera is a very similar story, but there is
only one phantom and no real beauty as with Beauty And The Beast.
He is _the_ phantom; no other.

The Prince And The Pauper tells a similar story, an age old story
of Pygmalion, as does Educating Rita and Trading Places. Twain's
story casts _the_ prince and _the_ pauper as unique individuals
contrasting the many beauties of Beauty And The Beast.

All of those stories have a similar theme; acceptance and rejection.
However, acceptance is _the_ major theme, amongst many minor themes.

Easy to surmise artistic works do not follow strict grammar rules.
Within our world of creative writing, violating rules of grammar
is a critical component of successful and enjoyable story writing.

Acceptance of differences is the foremost factor of enlightenment.
I urge you to accept disregard for grammar rules when doing so
benefits language and benefits creativity. If you do not accept
violations of grammar rules, in time, you will become insane.

Taha

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Steve Hayes - 08 Jan 2007 05:01 GMT

>Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
>the use of "the." It concerns the famous movie or story title of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>countable noun, grammatically it must have either "a" or "the"
>before it.

Perhaps it's analogous to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

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Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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R H Draney - 08 Jan 2007 05:19 GMT

Steve Hayes filted:

>>Can someone help me? I have a question which has long baffled me about
>>the use of "the." It concerns the famous movie or story title of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Perhaps it's analogous to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Have you read Gordon R Dickson's book "The Dragon and the George"?...r

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"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007

About the use of the definite article "the"