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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007how to denote the people and language of a place named guzhu
If a place name is guzhu, how to denote its people and language, guzhunese, guzhuan or others? > If a place name is guzhu, how to denote its people and language, > guzhunese, guzhuan or others? The general rule seems to be that the prefix "-an" is used, with the prefix just "-n" if the final letter of the place is "a", and the dropping of the "o" if the final letter is "o" (but final "i" is not dropped, and final "y" becomes "i"). The prefix "-ese" seems to be used only after an existing final "n" or "m" or "ng". So you can't add an "n" as in your "guzhunese" - that would only work if the place were "guzhun". To check whether this works, I tried Googling on "Beninese" and "Beninan". This is a country which only relatively recently has adopted a name ending in "n", so the from would have had to be invented not a long-established existing usage. And yes, "Beninese" is the form used in the vast majority of cases. I haven't thought much about this, so I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone can think of an "-ese" prefix that doesn't follow an existing nasal. Matthew Huntbach > The prefix "-ese" seems to be used only after an existing final "n" or > "m" or "ng". > So you can't add an "n" as in your "guzhunese" - that would only work if the > place were "guzhun". [...] > I haven't thought much about this, so I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone can > think of an "-ese" prefix that doesn't follow an existing nasal. Portuguese; Senegalese  SignatureSalvatore Volatile >> I haven't thought much about this, so I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone can >> think of an "-ese" prefix that doesn't follow an existing nasal. > >Portuguese; Senegalese Congolese; Maltese; Piedmontese; journalese David Matthew Huntbach filted: >> If a place name is guzhu, how to denote its people and language, >> guzhunese, guzhuan or others? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >So you can't add an "n" as in your "guzhunese" - that would only work if the >place were "guzhun". How about if the place is "Java"?... >To check whether this works, I tried Googling on "Beninese" and "Beninan". >This is a country which only relatively recently has adopted a name ending in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I haven't thought much about this, so I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone can >think of an "-ese" prefix that doesn't follow an existing nasal. Portuguese?...r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Matthew Huntbach filted: >>> If a place name is guzhu, how to denote its people and language, >>> guzhunese, guzhuan or others? >> The general rule seems to be that the prefix "-an" is used, with the prefix >> just "-n" if the final letter of the place is "a", and the dropping of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> So you can't add an "n" as in your "guzhunese" - that would only work if the >> place were "guzhun". > How about if the place is "Java"?... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Portuguese?...r OK, OK, I told you I hadn't thought through this thoroughly. The Java example suggests an alternative theory that "-ese" has an East Asian association, but then how come "Beninese"? In the case of "Portuguese", as with other European country names we cannot expect a standard usage as the usages developed haphazardly. Is there any other European "-ese" apart from Portuguese? In which case is it the early contact of the Portugese with the far east which led to the "-ese" prefix being used with far east places? Matthew Huntbach >> Matthew Huntbach filted: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >case is it the early contact of the Portugese with the far east which led >to the "-ese" prefix being used with far east places? Dated: "telegraphese". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >OK, OK, I told you I hadn't thought through this thoroughly. The Java example >suggests an alternative theory that "-ese" has an East Asian association, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >case is it the early contact of the Portugese with the far east which led >to the "-ese" prefix being used with far east places? They're mostly related to more minor places: Faroese; Aragonese; Leonese. Albanese is an old alternative for Albanian, which suggests that some may have gone out of fashion. David. dcw filted: >>OK, OK, I told you I hadn't thought through this thoroughly. The Java example >>suggests an alternative theory that "-ese" has an East Asian association, but [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Albanese is an old alternative for Albanian, which suggests that some may >have gone out of fashion. You can even go New World with this: Surinamese....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > dcw filted: >> They're mostly related to more minor places: Faroese; Aragonese; Leonese. >> Albanese is an old alternative for Albanian, which suggests that some may >> have gone out of fashion. > You can even go New World with this: Surinamese....r Hmm, but "Surinamese" is more evidence for my theory that productive use of the "-ese" suffix is now only with place names ending in a nasal. Matthew Huntbach >>> The prefix "-ese" seems to be used only after an existing final "n" or "m" or >>> "ng". [...] >>> I haven't thought much about this, so I'm prepared to be corrected if anyone can >>> think of an "-ese" prefix that doesn't follow an existing nasal. [...] > Is there any other European "-ese" apart from Portuguese? In which > case is it the early contact of the Portugese with the far east which led > to the "-ese" prefix being used with far east places? That makes at least three times in which you've called a suffix a prefix (NTTAWWT). SignatureSalvatore Volatile >>>> The prefix "-ese" seems to be used only after an existing final "n" or "m" or >>>> "ng". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> case is it the early contact of the Portugese with the far east which led >> to the "-ese" prefix being used with far east places? > That makes at least three times in which you've called a suffix a prefix > (NTTAWWT). Yes, I meant "suffix", for some reason today my fingers want to keep typing "prefix". Matthew Huntbach > Yes, I meant "suffix", for some reason today my fingers want to keep > typing "prefix". I hope it hasn't been too surplexing for everyone. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | I usually sign my name "J O backspace o h n" msb@vex.net | -- John Chew In alt.usage.english, Matthew Huntbach wrote: >Is there any other European "-ese" apart from Portuguese? Italian has a lot of them: Milanese, Borghese, inglese ... SignatureV |
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