Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007

The pronoun is in the accusative case, and the noun may be said to be
so, because they are objects of a preposition.  Googling on
"object"and "preposition" together will get you more hits on the
subject than you can shake a stick at (preposition).

"Woe is I"!

Cave . . .   "Woe is me" may be a summary
translation of Latin "Vae mihi" i.e. woe is to me.
The Romans also said "Vae victis" (which unambiguously
exhibits the dative case), but ever "vae ego."

A wise idea.

Academic prose is ... well, just too damned academic. Makes one sound
like a book, and usually a bad book if not an old and mouldy one.
Listen to people who speak good English and who speak it well.
Imitate them. Read people who write good English prose and who write
it well. Concentrate on style, not grammar. That will raise the level
of your English much more than being grammatically perfect.

Nah, nobody cares about flouting the rules. You have to know them
only if you're going to flaunt them.

There also seems to be a problem of ignorant teachers passing on their
ignorance.  *Anecdote Alert*  Every teacher has one pet peeve/nitpick
to which they pay special attention.  When I was in 6th grade, the
nitpick of my 6th grade teacher was "and me".  Anytime anyone said "and
me" in any context or sentence, she would correct them with "and I",
even if "and me" was the correct grammar.  As a result, I long suffered
a habit of saying "and I" in inappropriate places.  Of course, she was
not intentionally misleading, she was doing the best she could with the
knowledge she had; indeed a true linguist would not fault her at all,
but merely raise an eyebrow and smile at the very interesting way
English is changing.

--- clip---

Yes indeed, "Bobby and me" is incorrect.  The correct sentence is "Me
and Bobby went to the park".

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

In more detail, the form "X and I" should be used when it is the subject
of a phrase according to "correct English grammar". However, people very
commonly use "X and me" here. Since few people have any trouble using "I"
for subject and "me" for object in other circumstances, this indicates there
is something which causes this, and I would suggest it's that the "and" here
has a verb-like feeling, maybe mentally interpreted as "accompanied by", which
makes the "me" seem natural.

So, for many people "X and me" is *always* the form that seems correct.
It is, of course, correct, except when it is the subject. However, for
people for whom "X and me" seems always correct, when they are told in some
circumstance that they are wrong to use "X and me" and should use "X and I",
since they really can't feel the logic of it they make the adjustment that
"X and me" is *always* wrong, and therefore try to replace it by "X and I" in
all circumstances.

As Donna has suggested, this is such a common phenomenon that there may now be
people who are using "X and I" in situations which are wrong according to
"correct English grammar", not because they are reacting to having been
told at an impressionable age not to use "X and I", but because they are
repeating what they have heard others (who were told that) say.

The situation is in a mess because people don't have a natural feel for it.
Personally I think this means we should give in and accept the natural
"X and me" in all circumstances. But English doesn't have any formal body which
can agree to this.

Matthew Huntbach