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whichever

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Sara Lorimer - 20 Jan 2007 21:42 GMT
Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
to wear the black sandals, whichever socks you choose."

It sounds odd to me, but I might just be overthinking it.

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SML

d.flint1@gmail.com - 20 Jan 2007 22:09 GMT
Hi Sara,

I may be incorrect; however, whichever is not the best grammar usage
for written use.  Verbal usage is more flexible.

> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
> For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> SML
tinwhistler - 20 Jan 2007 23:13 GMT
[snip]
> I may be incorrect; however, whichever is not the best grammar usage
> for written use.  Verbal usage is more flexible.
[snip]

These citations from OED2 would seem to support the usage even in
formal writing:

1754 in Nairne Peerage Evid. (1874) 48 Upon their attaining their
respective ages of eighteen years compleat or their being lawfully
married whichever of these events should first happen.  1802 M.
Edgeworth Moral T., Forester xi, At a walk, trot, or gallop, whichever
you please.  1844 Alb. Smith Adv. Mr. Ledbury xlii, They
were..permitted to go whichever way they chose.  1872 Black Adv.
Phaeton x. 145 To dinner-or supper, whichever it ought to be called.
1880 Hardy Trumpet-Major I. ix. 178 Whichever of us she likes best, he
shall take her home.  1911 Act 1 & 2 Geo. V c. 46 ?16 (1) Copyright
shall subsist during the life of the author who first dies and for a
term of fifty years after his death, or during the life of the author
who dies last, whichever period is the longer.  1919 G. B. Shaw Inca of
Perusalem in Heartbreak House 205 The Inca is to come and look at me,
and pick out whichever of his sons he thinks will suit.

Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Purl Gurl - 20 Jan 2007 22:59 GMT
> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?

Yes, acceptably appropriate.

In usage, a tendency is to use "either" for a selection
amongst two things. Usage of "whichever" tends to be a
selection amongst more than two things.

Ignoring tendencies, an "either" construct falls apart when
subjected to many case examples, more specifically when
presented with two plural groups.

Sara, I have for you a black evening gown, black high heels,
a diamond necklace, a diamond bracelet and appropriate
matching undergarments. I also have for you a light flower
patterned yellow summer dress, pastel yellow pumps, several
silver rings, an engraved silver bracelet but no color matching
undergarments, for this warm summer night.

Select either outfit as you please, to wear.
Whichever outfit pleases you, wear.

Usage of "either" becomes near insulting. Either limits your
selection to black for the evening, or to yellow for the
evening; one combination or the other combination. My
offer is also to instruct you to wear this or wear that;
a dictate.

"Whichever" presents polite options. You are free to wear
one color theme or the other, and free to mix and match,
by subtle inference; freedom of choice.

Many would choose to use "whatever" in place of "whichever."
However, "whatever" references an unknown, singular or plural.
"What" signals an interrogative sense, or signals unknowns
might be included. Whatever does not work well because many
known items are offered, but no unknown items are offered.

Of course, in practice, an offer of this nature would be
presented differently. A shortened example,

"I have these dresses, these shoes, this jewelry, this and
that, "which" would you like to wear?"

Readers can sense the subtle nature of "whichever" in my
sentence construct immediately above. "Which" signals a
clear freedom of choice. "Whichever" signals equally.

"Either," no, there is a lack of freedom of choice.

Rather subtle, yes?

Of course there are those who choose to use "whichever"
simply to retain attention or for musical alliteration,
amongst other clever contructs and devious devices.

Personally, I would select the black evening gown, hopefully
low cut front and back, silver rings for my toes, no shoes
and no undergarments.

Purl Gurl
Robert Bannister - 20 Jan 2007 23:13 GMT
> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
> For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
> to wear the black sandals, whichever socks you choose."
>
> It sounds odd to me, but I might just be overthinking it.

I confess the "whichever" makes me think it covers green and purple
socks too, as well as the choices mentioned. On the hand, any other way
of putting it would be a lot longer and clumsier.
Signature

Rob Bannister

Jeffrey Turner - 21 Jan 2007 00:13 GMT
>> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
>> For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
>> to wear the black sandals, whichever socks you choose."
>>
>> It sounds odd to me, but I might just be overthinking it.

If you can accept socks with sandals, you can accept "whichever" for two
options.

> I confess the "whichever" makes me think it covers green and purple
> socks too, as well as the choices mentioned. On the hand, any other way
> of putting it would be a lot longer and clumsier.

"...But you['ll] have to wear sandals [with either | in either case]."

--Jeff

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The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal

sage - 21 Jan 2007 02:12 GMT
>>> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
>>> For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> --Jeff

To which the reply might be "Whaaadeverrrr."

Cheers, Sage
Bob Cunningham - 21 Jan 2007 00:35 GMT
> > Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
> > For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> socks too, as well as the choices mentioned. On the hand, any other way
> of putting it would be a lot longer and clumsier.

"Whichever" is okay by me for two alternatives, and the
examples in the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_
imply that it has been used for any number, including two.

    1 M. ROBERTS They shout for her from whichever
      room they happen to be in.

      Today 75 per cent on a small packet or £1..a
      gross, whichever is the greater.

    2 SWIFT Both Sides hang out their Trophies too,
      which ever comes by the worst.

      W. BESANT In politics you are used…You get
      nothing, whichever side is in.

'Tother pondside, _Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary_
has examples that support two and more than two.

    <would like to speak to your father or your mother,
    whichever is at home>

    <take two of the four elective subjects, whichever
    you prefer>
   
    <enter law or some other profession, but whichever
    you choose, put your whole heart into it>
Prai Jei - 21 Jan 2007 11:25 GMT
Sara Lorimer (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1hs8rd6.pc4l5c1q2notgN%que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com>:

> Is it appropriate to use "whichever" when there are only two choices?
> For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
> to wear the black sandals, whichever socks you choose."
>
> It sounds odd to me, but I might just be overthinking it.

Here in South Wales (at least) we would use the expression "either way" to
express independence of a choice from two:
< For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
< to wear the black sandals either way."
Signature

Terms and conditions apply. Batteries not included. Subject to status.
Contains moderate language. Always read the label. Keep out of children.

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

the Omrud - 21 Jan 2007 11:24 GMT
pvstownsend@zyx-abc.fsnet.co.uk had it:

> Sara Lorimer (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
> <1hs8rd6.pc4l5c1q2notgN%que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com>:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> < For example: "You can wear the red socks or the blue socks. You'll have
> < to wear the black sandals either way."

Not just a choice - I think it's more of a fact.  There's the "real"
meaning of "way":

- You can get to Edinburgh by catching the 12:00 train via Glasgow or
the 13:00 via York.  Either way, you won't arrive until 16:00.

or the analogous:

- You can hand in your homework today or tomorrow.  Either way, you
won't get your marks until Monday.

Signature

David
=====

 
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