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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007Usage of "pan out"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and (in English) in China. > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that > I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and > (in English) in China. It is certainly commonly used in the UK, however, it is (a) informal and (b) widely considered to be a cliché. I would prefer something like "It will all turn out well in the end". > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that > I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and > (in English) in China. Regardless of how common it might be -- and I suspect that it's not common outside the US -- it's informal and suitable only for verbatim speech and personal letters, not formal documents.  SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. "If you are still not convinced of the a.s-brain connection, finish this sentence: 'It is easier to think after I … (a) get a haircut (b) take a dump'." Scott Adams, The Dilbert Blog, 12 Jan 2007; http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/ teranews now charges a one-time US$3.95 setup fee -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > > outside of the US? > I suspect that it's not > common outside the US Its pretty damn common in the UK and Australia. Maybe we did not have a Gold Rush, 49ers, etc, but we certainly have had (and have) access to books, cinemas and TVs. > > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > > > outside of the US? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Gold Rush, 49ers, etc, but we certainly have had (and have) access to > books, cinemas and TVs. >"it will all pan out in the end" I can't see how the phrase could be used in this form, surely the words 'in the end' are redundant in this context. There is even an element of tautology in the sentence as is stands. (I'm not too sure about the last point). Richard Lichten >>"it will all pan out in the end" > >I can't see how the phrase could be used in this form, surely the >words 'in the end' are redundant in this context. There is even an >element of tautology in the sentence as is stands. (I'm not too sure >about the last point). A few years ago I was told a job by a member of the theology faculty at the University of South Africa. In Christian eschatollogy there are debates between premillennialists, postmillenialists and amillennialists. The person I was speaking to said "I'm a panmillennialist; I believe it will all pan out in the end." There would be no point to the joke if the expression were not well known. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: >>>"it will all pan out in the end" >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >A few years ago I was told a job by a member of the theology faculty at the >University of South Africa. "I was told a job"? >In Christian eschatollogy there are debates between premillennialists, >postmillenialists and amillennialists. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >There would be no point to the joke if the expression were not well known. Right, but exactly the same meaning results from "I believe it will all pan out." I'm a Seventh Day Opportunist; We believe we will come back as Aluminum-Siding Salesmen. > The Steve Hayes entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "I was told a job"? It took a lot of patience to wait for the punchline. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >A few years ago I was told a job by a member of the theology faculty at the >University of South Africa. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >There would be no point to the joke if the expression were not well known. The above is very close to the phrase that is in the document I am reviewing: "Some call it 'Pan-millennialism' -- whatever the Bible teaches, it all 'pans' out in the end." I would have used an analogy to agnosticism. > > > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > > > > outside of the US? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Richard Lichten Sorry, but I don't agree. "In the end" suggests a long time, a sweeping, long-term finality, while the thing that "pans out" could be a short term affair, like a test or experiment. When the gold miner finds gold in his pan, he isn't through with mining, quite the contrary. The results of that little test -- yes, the test itself is concluded -- is just a step in the gold-acquisition process. Here are a few examples I found that might show my point, that something can pan out in the short run: one observer speculates that if the experiment pans out, Google could seek newspaper partners in other cities to bolster sales of locally oriented ... depending on how the particular experiment panned out, there may be 1 instance of data to record, or 2, or 3, etc.) I would prefer you see how the experiment pans out before you make sweeping judgements about it or about me. I don't think you can meaningfully cram the concept "in the end" into those examples. True, experiments end, but the overall project hasn't ended. "In the end" conveys more than "some step ended." It follows that if people want to add "in the end" to convey the length of time and the ultimate finality, they can. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux The Donna Richoux entity posted thusly: >> > > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage >> > > > outside of the US? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >results of that little test -- yes, the test itself is concluded -- is >just a step in the gold-acquisition process. I think the short-term expression would be "it will pan out", and the addition of the "all" implies, if not a longer term, then a term long enough to cover the panning-out of whatever is being referenced. >Here are a few examples I found that might show my point, that something >can pan out in the short run: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > before you make sweeping judgements about it or > about me. These are all short term, yet covering the duration of the experiment. >I don't think you can meaningfully cram the concept "in the end" into >those examples. True, experiments end, but the overall project hasn't >ended. "In the end" conveys more than "some step ended." But the panning-out is not referencing the project. It is referencing part of the project; the experiment. >It follows that if people want to add "in the end" to convey the length >of time and the ultimate finality, they can. Of course they can, but it doesn't mean that the extra verbiage is not redundant. In the case of the three examples you gave, "in the end" could as easily be applied as when referencing the project, or the millennium, or the heat-death of the universe, but its redundancy is not changed. The thing that is panning out determines the length of the reference. > The Donna Richoux entity posted thusly: > > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > not changed. The thing that is panning out determines the length of > the reference. Sorry, you don't seem to have understood what I meant. I say that "in the end" can *not* be meaningfully added to those three examples. what I went to to say is that there are *other* conceivable situations where "panned out ... in the end" makes sense. "In the end" adds information. Like saying "in the short run" or "in the long run." It is not an automatic, meaningless, deletable redundancy. It describes the time frame. But delete it whenever and wherever you like, I'll never know. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux The Donna Richoux entity posted thusly: >> The Donna Richoux entity posted thusly: >> > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >Sorry, you don't seem to have understood what I meant. I say that "in >the end" can *not* be meaningfully added to those three examples. But it _can_. It just refers to whatever the end happens to reference. "...in the end (of the experiment)" > what I >went to to say is that there are *other* conceivable situations where >"panned out ... in the end" makes sense. I have yet to see any that make "in the end" non-redundant, since "pan out" already implies that. >"In the end" adds information. Like saying "in the short run" or "in the >long run." It is not an automatic, meaningless, deletable redundancy. It >describes the time frame. "In the short/long run" is a different matter altogether. You can say things like "in the long run, you will lose your gambling stake", or "in the short run, you could beat the odds", or combine the two to show what a different length of time will/should do for the odds of something happening. The point is that these two phrases may be applied to a subject to differentiate time into the referenced thing. "in the end" only refers to one place in time, the end of it, which is fine, except that 'pans out' also denotes the end of whatever is being referenced. >But delete it whenever and wherever you like, I'll never know. Makes no difference to me. When I read it, along with "pans out", I'll always think 'redundancy', and would not bother to use it in my own writing. > Its pretty damn common in the UK and Australia. Maybe we did not have > a Gold Rush, 49ers, etc, but we certainly have had (and have) access > to books, cinemas and TVs. What do you mean "we", white man? Australia certainly had its Gold Rush, and it had a major effect in populating the new state (formerly part of New South Wales) of Victoria. According to <http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/goldrush/>: Victoria contributed more than one third of the world's gold output in the 1850s and in just two years the State's population had grown from 77,000 to 540,000! Some of my ancestors came from the region around Rushworth, in northern Victoria. You can guess where the name of the town came from. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >> Its pretty damn common in the UK and Australia. Maybe we did not have >> a Gold Rush, 49ers, etc, but we certainly have had (and have) access [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Some of my ancestors came from the region around Rushworth, in > northern Victoria. You can guess where the name of the town came from. One of my great-grandfathers was a wandering gold prospector: lucky enough to make a living, but not enough to get rich. Quite a few forty-niners moved across the Pacific to Australia. A lot of the 19-C British gold coinage was minted on the spot in Australia -- I think in S Africa, too -- rather than in England. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com On Jan 22, 12:49 pm, mike.j.har...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > > > outside of the US? > > I suspect that it's not > > common outside the USIts pretty damn common in the UK and Australia. Maybe we did not have a > Gold Rush, 49ers, etc, but we certainly have had (and have) access to > books, cinemas and TVs. Well Australia had at least one gold rush in Victoria and, I think, another one in Western Australia. Mind you, there may not have been the water to do panning. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada [ ... ] > Well Australia had at least one gold rush in Victoria How many did Sick Australia have? (ba-da-boom) And they say the comma is obsolescent. SignatureBob Lieblich Nominated for Oscar for Best Smartass > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And they say the comma is obsolescent. - > Bob Lieblich > Nominated for Oscar for Best Smartass There are Academy Award categories in the case of which the word "nominated" might appropriately be replaced with "indicted". -- Mike (ill met by moonlight). SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit > > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that > I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and > (in English) in China. It is perfectly idiomatic in everyday spoken use albeit a bit rare in Canada and acceptable in casual writing. I would hesitate to use it in a formal document. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage > outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that > I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and > (in English) in China. Pan Out is a metaphor derived from the common 19th century method of extracting placer gold. It provides a colloquial verb equivalent to happen, occur, eventuate, etc. Placer gold occurs in fine grains mixed in sand and gravel, typically found in river beds. The gold is heavier than the stone material: so if the mixture is swirled about in a pan of water, and the lighter material poured off, the residue in the bottom will contain a high percentage of gold. This method was used by amateur gold seekers in California in 1849, the Yukon in 1898 etc. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) [ ... ] > Pan Out is a metaphor derived from the common > 19th century method of extracting placer gold. It [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Placer gold occurs in fine grains mixed in sand > and gravel, typically found in river beds... If the SOED is to be believed (and in this instance I'm not convinced that it can, and would be interested to know some Australian opinions), the North American word "placer" and the Australian word "placer" both relate to gold-mining and both come from the 19th or early 20th centuries, but mean different things and have different origins, the American word coming from Spanish "plaza" and the Australian word from the English word "place". I looked it up because I wasn't sure how to pronounce it. The town of Placerville in California has a short a as in "lass", but I wasn't sure if the word did. Again according to the SOED, the American word can have either a short a as in "lass" or a long one as in "place", but the Australian word has only the latter. athel >> Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage >> outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >This method was used by amateur gold seekers >in California in 1849, the Yukon in 1898 etc. You can go to Sovereign Hill in Ballarat, a tourist town themed on Australia's gold rush. One of the activities is panning for gold using fair dinkum miner method. My sister in law is ethnic Chinese from North Vietnam. She had such an effective swirl, derived from some sort of rice-winnowing she did when she were a lad, that she was able to find more flecks of gold than anyone else in the group. She was also able to find gold in the cast offs of previous panners. My brother had a devil of a time getting her to stop so they could move on. Her mercantile instincts had been roused. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit > >Is the phrase "it will all pan out in the end" common usage >outside of the US? I just saw the phrase in a document that >I am reviewing that will be published in the UK, the US, and >(in English) in China. It's known in South Africa. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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