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Impregnate vs. Impregnable

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Josh Norther - 22 Jan 2007 17:09 GMT
I assume that the "im-" prefix of "impregnate" means something
like "going in" (as in the word "import"), and that the "im-"
prefix of "impregnable" simply means "not" (as in the word
"impossible".

Is this right, and is it possible to say "imimpregnable", or do
the two negative prefixes cancel each other out to give you
the word "pregnable"? How about "imimpregante" Is that a possible
word?

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Josh Norther

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athel...@yahoo - 22 Jan 2007 17:34 GMT
> I assume that the "im-" prefix of "impregnate" means something
> like "going in" (as in the word "import"), and that the "im-"
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the word "pregnable"? How about "imimpregante" Is that a possible
> word?

I think there is a certain amount of confusion here. It is isn't really
an "im-" prefix but (in each of the two words) an "in-" prefix in which
the m has been modified by the p that follows into a more easily
pronounced n. So if one allowed a negating prefix to be added to
"impregnable" it would be "in-" (or more likely "un-"), giving
"inimpregnable" or "unimpregnable". However, you are right that there
are two different prefixes with two different meanings that are written
in exactly the same way. It's just one of those things: English wasn't
worked out by a committee, but just evolved over the centuries.

Neither "inimpregnable" nor "unimpregnable" is in the SOED, but
"unimpregnable", at least, seems a perfectly possible word and one that
would be understood if used, especialled as "unimpregnated" does exist
in the dictionary.

It is certainly not the case that "the two negative prefixes cancel
each other out to give you the word 'pregnable' ", because there is
only one negative prefix. As you point out yourself, the "im-" in
"impregnable" is not negative. Even if it were, it would be very rash
to think that two negative prefixes would cancel one another.

Finally, why "un-" rather than "in-"? I think all the negating words
made by prefixing a word beginning "in-" or "im-" (like "unimpressed")
use "un-" or "dis-" or "anti-" rather than "in-", and I would guess
that it is for the obvious reason that "inin-" would sound nasty.

athel
athel...@yahoo - 22 Jan 2007 18:01 GMT
[  ... ]

> I think there is a certain amount of confusion here. It is isn't really
> an "im-" prefix but (in each of the two words) an "in-" prefix in which
> the m has been modified by the p that follows into a more easily
> pronounced n...

Oy!

the n has been modified by the p that follows into a more easily
pronounced m...

a.
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 22 Jan 2007 17:36 GMT
> I assume that the "im-" prefix of "impregnate" means something
> like "going in" (as in the word "import"), and that the "im-"
> prefix of "impregnable" simply means "not" (as in the word
> "impossible".
>
> Is this right,

Yes.  According to M-W on line, "impregnable" used to be "imprenable"
(untakeable).  I didn't know that.  M-W doesn't say where the g came
from.

> and is it possible to say "imimpregnable",

No.  First, it would be "inimpregnable", as the n in in- changes to an
m only before b, m, or, p (and to an l before l and to an r before
r--unless you're finding this immaterial, illegitimate, and
irrelevant).  Second, the word I know is "unimpregnable".  For some
reason it isn't in M-W or AHD on line.  It gets 3,020 Google hits,
which is a small number, but a lot more than "inimpregnable" with 14.

> or do
> the two negative prefixes cancel each other out to give you
> the word "pregnable"?

That would be silly.

> How about "imimpregante" Is that a possible
> word?

What would it mean?  D&C?

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Jerry Friedman

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 22 Jan 2007 17:41 GMT
...

> > or do
> > the two negative prefixes cancel each other out to give you
> > the word "pregnable"?
>
> That would be silly.

Sorry, "pregnate" (which you didn't mention) would be silly.
"Pregnable" is in M-W.

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Jerry Friedman

HVS - 22 Jan 2007 17:47 GMT
On 22 Jan 2007, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote

> ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Sorry, "pregnate" (which you didn't mention) would be silly.

It would be now, but OED has it an obsolete/rare adjective (1598,
meaning pregnant) as well as a similarly-obsolete/rare verb (1706, of
soil which becomes fertile).

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Evan Kirshenbaum - 22 Jan 2007 18:50 GMT
> Yes.  According to M-W on line, "impregnable" used to be "imprenable"
> (untakeable).  I didn't know that.  M-W doesn't say where the g came
> from.

The OED opines that

 The _g_ was evidently in imitation of the _g_ mute in _reign_,
 _deign_, and the like, though it appears to have sometimes led in
 16th c. to the pronunciation (nj).]

The first quote that has the "g", from 15331, spells it
"impreignable".

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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 23 Jan 2007 18:01 GMT
> > Yes.  According to M-W on line, "impregnable" used to be "imprenable"
> > (untakeable).  I didn't know that.  M-W doesn't say where the g came
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> The first quote that has the "g", from 15331, spells it
> "impreignable".

Thanks, very interesting.

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Jerry Friedman

Ian Noble - 26 Jan 2007 00:00 GMT
>> Yes.  According to M-W on line, "impregnable" used to be "imprenable"
>> (untakeable).  I didn't know that.  M-W doesn't say where the g came
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>The first quote that has the "g", from 15331, spells it
>"impreignable".

I doubt that the English language will last that long.

Cheers - Ian
CDB - 22 Jan 2007 21:59 GMT
> I assume that the "im-" prefix of "impregnate" means something
> like "going in" (as in the word "import"), and that the "im-"
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the word "pregnable"? How about "imimpregante" Is that a possible
> word?

Others have answered your questions about the form of these words.  I
would like to add a few details, some of which may seem a little
speculative.   The opposite of "impregnable" (meaning "able to be
taken") is indeed made by removing the negative prefix: "pregnable".

There is another possible adjective in the same form as "impregnable"
meaning "able to be impregnated", a perfectly regular formation from
the verb.  This is not in the dictionaries, having been skunked to the
max by the other (mis-spelled) usage.  The word "unimpregnable" is not
in the dictionaries either, for the same reason; but it would be the
negative of the unused adjective: "incapable of being impregnated".
Peter Moylan - 23 Jan 2007 06:43 GMT
> I assume that the "im-" prefix of "impregnate" means something
> like "going in" (as in the word "import"), and that the "im-"
> prefix of "impregnable" simply means "not" (as in the word
> "impossible".

You can't impregnate someone who's impregnable.

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