Use of commas in the following sentence...

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galdcourse2@yahoo.es - 23 Jan 2007 11:55 GMT

Which of the following is correct

However old as she was, she managed to win the race.

or

However, old as she was, she won the race.

Cheers,
j

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jinhyun - 23 Jan 2007 12:12 GMT

> Which of the following is correct
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Cheers,
> j

Hi. I think the second one is correct. 'old as she was' is an adverbial
clause in apposition with the adverb 'however' (each qualifying the
main clause:'she won the race'), and must be marked off by commas on
either side.

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Lars Eighner - 23 Jan 2007 12:56 GMT

In our last episode,
<1169553303.424687.307180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
talented galdcourse2@yahoo.es broadcast on alt.usage.english:

> Which of the following is correct

> However old as she was, she managed to win the race.

> or

> However, old as she was, she won the race.

They both are correct, but they mean different things.

> However old as she was, she managed to win the race.

This means her age was unknown or uncertain. This migght be said even if
"she" appeared very young, for example if she appeared to be a child
competing against women. Or it might be said of any competitor whose age
was not known. "However" here means "to an indeterminate degree or extent."

> However, old as she was, she won the race.

In this case she certainly is old. In most cases this sentence will not
occur except in a context in which "however" implies the following is
contrary to the established expectation:

She seemed very frail and ancient. However, old as she was, she won the
race.

"However" here means "on the other hand" or "to the contrary."

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Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 728 days to go.

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jinhyun - 23 Jan 2007 13:18 GMT

> In our last episode,
> <1169553303.424687.307180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> "However" here means "on the other hand" or "to the contrary."

Hi. Is 'however old as she was' idiomatic? Or even grammatical? The
only way it occurs to me to say that the woman won, irrespective of how
old she was is to say:'However old she might have been,she won the
race.' .I didn't think 'however' and 'as' went together,idiomatically
or even grammatically.Please treat this as a fresh query and post
replies.Thanks in advance.

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CDB - 23 Jan 2007 13:29 GMT

> In our last episode,
> <1169553303.424687.307180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, the lovely
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> competitor whose age was not known. "However" here means "to an
> indeterminate degree or extent."

Surely you wouldn't have an "as" in that sentence, at least in formal
English? "However old she was, she [won] the race," would be
unexceptionable.

I don't know if the OP had anything special in mind, in changing from
"managed to win" to "won", but I didn't.

[...]

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Donna Richoux - 23 Jan 2007 13:20 GMT

> Which of the following is correct
>
> However old as she was, she managed to win the race.

That's not correct. But if it was "However old she was, she managed to
win the race" then it would be correct. The meaning would be "I don't
know how old she was (there may be dispute or mystery), but she won
anyway."

> or
>
> However, old as she was, she won the race.

That's correct. There, the meaning is:

However, (in spite of what was just said or thought)
old as she was (even though she was definitely old)
she won the race.

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Best -- Donna Richoux

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007

Use of commas in the following sentence...