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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007What are worst errors that someone can do in alt-groups?
Example one: I send a picture in the right group, but some person says that "Otherwise good picture, but too big Copyright-text." And question is: What is difference between "image" and "picture"? Example two: Which is too insulting at these sentences: 2A: - One megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, not 1000, like makers claims. - One megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, but some makers says that it's 1000 kB. 2B: - If you like, then put me in at your black list. - If you want, you can allways reject me using a black list. 2C: - You bored me, go away now! - You bored me, please leave me in peace. and last 2D: - Why can't you say for me, what I wrote wrong? - What if you say for me, what I wrote incorrectly? Example 3: How many errors answers can find in my signature?  SignatureI live in Finland, near the city of Mänttä. This city is in central Finland. If you like, take a look my homepage www.isoallo.net and select "In English", where is the some pages in English. > Example one: > I send a picture in the right group, but some person > says that "Otherwise good picture, but too big Copyright-text." I posted a picture in an appropriate newsgroup, but someone has said that it's too big for legitimate use of copyright material. > And question is: What is difference between "image" and "picture"? One question is, what is the difference in meaning between the words "image" and "picture". One answer could be that "picture" has a very wide range of meanings, while "image" comes closer to meaning something that's in digital form. In your sentence, "image" would have been the preferable word. > Example two: Which is too insulting at these sentences: Example two: What, if anything, is wrong with these sentences: > 2A: > - One megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, not 1000, like makers claims. Acceptable English would be One megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, not 1000 as some makers claim. But the thought is wrong. "Kilobyte" can be properly used to mean either 1024 bytes or 1000 bytes, depending upon the context. Also, what you mean by "makers" is unclear. Writers maybe? Manufacturers? > - One megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, but some makers says that it's 1000 kB. There the English is okay, but the thought is not so wrong, because it seems to imply that the "makers" may be within their rights to say "1000 kB". But "makers say", not "makers says". > 2B: > - If you like, then put me in at your black list. > - If you want, you can allways reject me using a black list. Those statements might be appropriate in a context where there is a "black list" that's commonly referred to. So far as I know, that's not the case with Usenet, where "killfile" seems to probably imply about the same thing as your intent. Anyway, "put me in at your black list" is not good English. "Put me in your black list" would be. The clause "you can always reject me using a black list" is open to the interpretation "you can always resent my using a black list", but you probably intend "you can always avoid me by using a black list". > 2C: > - You bored me, go away now! Probably not good, depending upon whether or not you mean what you're saying. You probably mean "You have bored me" or "You are boring me". "You bored me" refers to a specific event in the past, not something that has happened over a certain period of time, however brief, or is currently happening. Again, the comma should be a semicolon or a period. > - You bored me, please leave me in peace. Same remarks apply about "bored", "have bored", and "are boring", and yet again, the comma should be a semicolon or a period. > and last 2D: > - Why can't you say for me, what I wrote wrong? First cut would be to change it to "Why can't you say to me", but it still wouldn't be good. The sentence would probably convey your intended meaning if you said Why can't you tell me what I wrote wrong? > - What if you say for me, what I wrote incorrectly? How would it be if you were to tell me what I wrote incorrectly? > Example 3: How many errors answers can find in my signature? I'm guessing that your intended meaning is How many errors can responders (or readers) find in my signature? Copying and pasting your signature, which is not normally quoted in a response: > I live in Finland, near the city of Mänttä. > This city is in central Finland. That's okay. > If you like, take a look my homepage > www.isoallo.net and select "In English", So far, so good. > where is the some pages in English. That's pretty bad. If I understand what you mean to say, I think it should be where there are some pages in English. I find there the following paragraph: # Hello, I was born in 11. March 1981 on the city of # Anita, Finland. You mean you were born ON 11 March 1981 IN the city of Anita, Finland. (Note that I've used caps for emphasis, not to shout or show anger.) # My really name is Pauli Kesti, male. "Real", not "really", and I don't think your name is "Pauli Kesti, male". I think your name is Pauli Kesti and you are male. My real name is Pauli Kesti. I am a male. # This is some kind of page in English. I'm not sure what you intend to convey by saying "some kind of page", but I would guess you mean This is my attempt to present a page in English. # I collect old coins, and I want to show foreigners, # what coins and bank notes was used in Finland. The comma after "foreigners" is an error, and you should say "what coins and bank notes WERE used in Finland". >> Example one: >> I send a picture in the right group, but some person [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >that's in digital form. In your sentence, "image" would >have been the preferable word. "Image" is used in almost all computer-related statements. We use image manipulation programs like Photoshop, we upload the images from our cameras to our computer, we include images in our web pages, and we view images on our screens. An image is a transitory thing; uncommitted and changeable until printed as a picture. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Kesti Pauli: >>> And question is: What is difference between "image" and "picture"? Bob Cunningham: >> One answer could be that "picture" has a very wide range of >> meanings, while "image" comes closer to meaning something >> that's in digital form. ... Tony Cooper: > "Image" is used in almost all computer-related statements. We use > image manipulation programs like Photoshop, we upload the images from > our cameras to our computer, we include images in our web pages, and > we view images on our screens. True, but I don't think this is why: > An image is a transitory thing; uncommitted and changeable until > printed as a picture. I think the reason is that an "image" *isn't* necessarily a picture. It could be a diagram, or a plain white rectangle, or anything else that someone has decided to present in digital image form. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto, msb@vex.net Irving Thalberg's advice on GONE WITH THE WIND: "Forget it, Louis. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel." >Kesti Pauli: >>>> And question is: What is difference between "image" and "picture"? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >It could be a diagram, or a plain white rectangle, or anything else >that someone has decided to present in digital image form. Uhhhh....aren't we saying the same thing? You've just added other names for output. The image on the screen is changeable. When printed, it becomes a picture, a diagram, a flow chart, a letter, a brochure, etc and is no longer changeable in that form. I didn't name the other forms of output, but the intent was to describe the difference between an image and a picture to reply to Cunningham's comment. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Kesti Pauli: >>>>> And question is: What is difference between "image" and "picture"? Bob Cunningham: >>>> One answer could be that "picture" has a very wide range of >>>> meanings, while "image" comes closer to meaning something >>>> that's in digital form. ... Tony Cooper: >>> "Image" is used in almost all computer-related statements. We use >>> image manipulation programs like Photoshop, we upload the images from >>> our cameras to our computer, we include images in our web pages, and >>> we view images on our screens. Mark Brader: >> True, but I don't think this is why: >>> An image is a transitory thing; uncommitted and changeable until >>> printed as a picture. >> I think the reason is that an "image" *isn't* necessarily a picture. >> It could be a diagram, or a plain white rectangle, or anything else >> that someone has decided to present in digital image form. Tony Cooper: > Uhhhh....aren't we saying the same thing? No, I'm saying you had it wrong. > You've just added other names for output. We weren't talking about output. We were talking about data. > The image on the screen is changeable. When > printed, it becomes a picture, a diagram, a flow chart, a letter, a > brochure, etc and is no longer changeable in that form. True, but that's not the sense of "image" used so far in this thread. In particular, when you say "We use image manipulation programs like Photoshop, we upload the images from our cameras to our computer, we include images in our web pages, and we view images on our screens", these "images" are GIFs and JPEGs and PNGs. They're data meant to be displayed visually. The image could be transitory, if you're in the middle of Photoshopping it; but it could also be of archival permanence, like <http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/at0069_4s.jpg>. As I said, > I didn't name the other forms of output, but the intent was to > describe the difference between an image and a picture to reply to > Cunningham's comment. I grasped the intent, but you got it wrong. But then, so did Bob. There are lots of other kinds of images besides the digital ones we've just been talking about. There are mental images, images formed by optical means such as projection, the images on the computer screen that you were talking about. Even within the realm of digital data, "image" doesn't always mean something intended for visual display; one can speak of an "image" of memory or a filesystem. If one of the two words is better described as having a very wide range of meanings, it's "image". "Picture" covers a lot of the same senses, but not all of them. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto, msb@vex.net Irving Thalberg's advice on GONE WITH THE WIND: "Forget it, Louis. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel." My text in this article is in the public domain. [...] > One question is, what is the difference in meaning > between the words "image" and "picture". > One answer could be that "picture" has a very wide range of > meanings, while "image" comes closer to meaning something > that's in digital form. In your sentence, "image" would > have been the preferable word. After I posted, it occurred to me that I could have said a little more about the difference between "image" and "picture". You could get a general idea of the difference by looking the two up in a dictionary, but I suspected that you would be most interested in the meanings of the words in terms of computer use. A picture that's displayed on a computer screen can be called either an image or a picture, but in discussing the technical aspects of making that image appear, the word usually used is "image". When a picture is stored in digital form, the file it's stored in is called an image file. It could be called a picture file, but "image file" is more often seen. To call the image file itself an image would be at best imprecise. There's a discussion of image-file formats at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_file_formats . In that article they refer to the picture as an image, but they also refer to formats for storing an image in a file. So "image" can mean either the picture itself or the information used to construct that picture on a computer screen. But from a rough-and-ready point of view, "picture" is for Joe Sixpack; "image" is for computer geeks. >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >But from a rough-and-ready point of view, "picture" is for >Joe Sixpack; "image" is for computer geeks. What about images that are definitely images but are not by any stretch of the imagination pictures? I'm thinking of specially designed graphics (e.g. logos) or other graphic-design objects -- arrows, "whoosh" marks, etc. I don't think Joe Sixpack (is he Joe Blow's cousin or what?) would have a single word for things like that. SignatureArchie Valparaiso Tunbridge Wells borough residents are the second best recyclers in Kent. |
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