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Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2007Would data be plural?
The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are all we have to go on. > The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. > The forensic data are all we have to go on. "Data" can be either singular or plural, depending on context, and sometimes the context doesn't demand one or the other. In your second sentence, I personally would use "are", but plenty of literate people can be found who would use "is". If this is for school, ask your teacher which the teacher prefers. If it's for work, do what the boss tells you. Otherwise go with what sounds good to you.  SignatureBob Lieblich Man of Peace > The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are > all we have to go on. I predict that about half the responses you get about "data" will favour "is", the second half will favour "are", and the other half will say "it depends". It's one of those things on which we can't get agreement, because the fashion is in transition. For what it's worth, I believe that the second sentence suggests that the forensic evidence consists of several data, therefore "data" is plural in this context. Many people will disagree with me, and many will support me. For "evidence" the answer is simpler. Everyone accepts "evidence" as a mass noun, therefore "is" is correct. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >> The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are >> all we have to go on. > I predict that about half the responses you get about "data" will favour > "is", the second half will favour "are", and the other half will say "it > depends". It's one of those things on which we can't get agreement, > because the fashion is in transition. What is the consensus of the fourth half of people? Purl Gurl > >> The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are > >> all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What is the consensus of the fourth half of people? I believe you are that fourth half, Kira. Certainly your opinion is unlike anyone else's. Go to sleep already. SignatureBob the Nailman >>>> The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are >>>> all we have to go on. >>> I predict that about half the responses you get about "data" will favour >>> "is", the second half will favour "are", and the other half will say "it >>> depends". It's one of those things on which we can't get agreement, >>> because the fashion is in transition. >> What is the consensus of the fourth half of people? > I believe you are that fourth half, Kira. I am the fourth half and my butt is the fifth half. However, I can count on my toes and fingers to twenty. I have an uncle who can only count to nineteen, though. A hog bit off one of his toes back when we were kids. > Certainly your opinion is unlike anyone else's. Your opinion is like all others. You boys are Sheeple. Baaaa... Baaaa... just another sheep in the flock being led to slaughter. I am the Coyote. Purl Gurl Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Purl Gurl said > I am the fourth half and my butt is the fifth half. However, I can count > on my toes and fingers to twenty. I have an uncle who can only count to > nineteen, though. A hog bit off one of his toes back when we were kids. Most men can count to 21. What else was bitten off? Signaturerob singers pull finger to reply Foemina Erit Ruina Tua >> I am the fourth half and my butt is the fifth half. However, I can count >> on my toes and fingers to twenty. I have an uncle who can only count to >> nineteen, though. A hog bit off one of his toes back when we were kids. > Most men can count to 21. What else was bitten off? Testicles, clearly. A majority of men can only count to twenty-two and a half, or somewhat less. Eunuchs are a noteworthy exception. Ears are used for multiplication and division. A nose is a decimal point. Breasts are used for logarithmic functions and exponential functions which is why men are less talented at math. Men make for poor carpenters. Men believe six inches is a foot. Purl Gurl Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Purl Gurl said > Men make for poor carpenters. Men believe six inches is a foot. Give a woman an inch and she wants a foot. Give a woman a foot and she wants a yard. Give a woman a yard and she wants a swimming pool. Signaturerob singers pull finger to reply Foemina Erit Ruina Tua >> Men make for poor carpenters. Men believe six inches is a foot. > Give a woman an inch and she wants a foot. Give a woman a foot and she > wants a yard. Give a woman a yard and she wants a swimming pool. Give a woman a swimming pool and she divorces you; last of your money. Purl Gurl Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Purl Gurl said >>> Men make for poor carpenters. Men believe six inches is a foot. > >> Give a woman an inch and she wants a foot. Give a woman a foot and she >> wants a yard. Give a woman a yard and she wants a swimming pool. > > Give a woman a swimming pool and she divorces you; last of your money. Only in white[1] trash world. [1] or other appropriate skin colour. Signaturerob singers pull finger to reply Foemina Erit Ruina Tua >>>> Men make for poor carpenters. Men believe six inches is a foot. >>> Give a woman an inch and she wants a foot. Give a woman a foot and she >>> wants a yard. Give a woman a yard and she wants a swimming pool. >> Give a woman a swimming pool and she divorces you; last of your money. > Only in white[1] trash world. This is why a majority of marriages end up in divorce; men never learn to take out the trash. Purl Gurl >> The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. The forensic data are >> all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > For "evidence" the answer is simpler. Everyone accepts "evidence" as a > mass noun, therefore "is" is correct. In my job, using 'datums' would avoid the confusion that I think would be caused by 'data'. Stupot "Terry" asks about: > > The forensic data are all we have to go on. > I predict that about half the responses you get about "data" will favour > "is", the second half will favour "are", and the other half will say "it > depends". If so, it shows how nonrepresentative this newsgroup is. This battle was over 20 years ago. "Is" won. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "A secret proclamation? How unusual!" msb@vex.net -- Arsenic and Old Lace > "Terry" asks about: >>> The forensic data are all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If so, it shows how nonrepresentative this newsgroup is. This battle > was over 20 years ago. "Is" won. Battles don't always stay won. Haven't you seen a sort of hyperplural "data", as in things like: All the data point towards global warming being the cause. I guess that implies several different _kinds_ of data (temperature, CO2 levels, rainfall, or whatever). SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au John Holmes: > Battles don't always stay won. Haven't you seen a sort of hyperplural > "data", as in things like: > > All the data point towards global warming being the cause. Not only have I not seen it, it took me about five readings before I figured out that "point" was supposed to be the verb and not a noun modified by an attributive "data". SignatureMark Brader "C was developed for the programmer Toronto (two of them, in fact)" msb@vex.net -- Alasdair Grant > John Holmes: >> Battles don't always stay won. Haven't you seen a sort of hyperplural [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I figured out that "point" was supposed to be the verb and not a noun > modified by an attributive "data". Google finds about half a dozen hits each for "All the data point towards" and "All the data points towards". Most of them appear to be in scholarly journals. Wouldn't you have had the same garden path problem with "data points"? SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > Google finds about half a dozen hits each for "All the data point towards" > and "All the data points towards". But not a single hit for "all the data points point towards". SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > John Holmes: >> Battles don't always stay won. Haven't you seen a sort of hyperplural [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I figured out that "point" was supposed to be the verb and not a noun > modified by an attributive "data". I think most careful writers would avoid this sequence of words for that very reason. SignatureLes >> "Terry" asks about: >>>> The forensic data are all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I guess that implies several different _kinds_ of data (temperature, > CO2 levels, rainfall, or whatever). In order to prevent more people wandering down the garden path and missing the point, I have tried to find a better example on the web. But it is extraordinarily difficult to find search terms that yield good, unambiguous examples in Google. The sort of thing I have seen in articles IRL is where 'data' is treated as a mass noun with a singular verb for the most part, but given a plural verb when they mention several different kinds of data together. But here is one possible example of what I'm talking about. It is a California State government report (with Arnie's name on the front, no less, but he sure as hell didn't write it). If you wade through 132 pages of http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publications/CEC-600-2006-013/CEC-600-2006-013-SF.PDF you find (singular verb): p. 56 This data is based upon reported electrical energy transactions... p. 65 Equine populations were estimated from 1999 data for horse populations but are probably low because data is not collected for groups of fewer than 50 horses. p. 71 (this data shows the same value for 1998 to 2000,... but (plural verb): p. 63 In the meantime, for this report, all of the data have been made consistent using the older GWP, 21. I didn't read all 132 pages, but it does look to be systematic from what I saw. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > "Terry" asks about: >> > The forensic data are all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If so, it shows how nonrepresentative this newsgroup is. This battle was > over 20 years ago. "Is" won. We demand proof! Where are your data? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >"Terry" asks about: >> > The forensic data are all we have to go on. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If so, it shows how nonrepresentative this newsgroup is. This battle was >over 20 years ago. "Is" won. I think Microsoft struck a fairly strong blow to reverse the trend. Somewhere deep in Windows is a message about putting a lot of data on the clipboard, do you want to keep them? This makes me boggle every time it appears. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > The forensic evidence is all we have to go on. > The forensic data are all we have to go on. The evidents of usage are all we have to go on: It depends whether you want to emphasize the plurality or collectivity of the data. -- John |
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