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Discussion Groups / English Usage / April 2007Murali's doosra
I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: 'On television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different from 22 yards'. I wondered at first if it was a reference to a distinctive form of clothing, or even a hairstyle (well, that sort of thing has been in the news), but googling the expression told me that a 'doosra' is a kind of googly. You learn something new every day. Fran [snip] > news), but googling the expression told me that a 'doosra' is a kind of > googly. [snip] Another form of terrorism emanating from Pakistan? http://tinyurl.com/2thpzh "...Sussex have bolstered their squad with the addition of Pakistani spinner Saqlain Mushtaq... The arrival of one of the game's great off- spinners in Saqlain is interesting, with the inventor of the now- infamous 'doosra', who has played 49 Tests for Pakistan, initially coming as cover for compatriots Mushtaq Ahmed and Rana Naved-ul- Hasan...." -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: 'On >television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different from 22 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > news), but googling the expression told me that a 'doosra' is a kind of > googly. Don't trust everything you google. A doosra is a kind of googly only in the sense that left is a kind of right (ie, it's the same kind of thing, but actually they are opposites). A doosra is a disguised leg-break delivery by an off spin bowler with what appears to be an off spin action, whereas a googly is a disquised off-break delivery by a leg spin bowler with what appears to be a leg spin action.  SignatureApteryx >>I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: 'On >>television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different from 22 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > googly is a disquised off-break delivery by a leg spin bowler with what > appears to be a leg spin action. Thanks for clearing that up. Fran >>>I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: 'On >>>television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different from 22 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks for clearing that up. Yes; your many American readers are grateful that they know know twice as much as they did previously. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > >>>I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: 'On > >>>television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different from 22 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Yes; your many American readers are grateful that they know know twice as > much as they did previously. googly=curveball doosra=screwball Leg-break, leg-spin are bowler {pitcher} delivery motions. "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote : > "Roland Hutchinson" <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote : >> >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Leg-break, leg-spin are bowler {pitcher} delivery motions. No. Curveball = inswing, and screwball = outswing. Those are required skills of fast and medium-paced bowlers in cricket. Even apparently similar terminology (e.g. "pitch" and "break") are used differently in cricket from in baseball. In cricket, where the ball pitches is where it bounces. The "break" of the ball is the change in direction (and/or speed) after it bounces. Change in trajectory (laterally or vertically) before the ball bounces is normally called "swing". Googlies and doosras are bowled by slow bowlers who use "spin" (to change the ball's speed and direction after bouncing) and "flight" (varying speed and trajectory before the ball bounces) to mislead the batsman. Philip Eden > "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote : [ ... ] > > googly=curveball > > doosra=screwball [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Those are required skills of fast and medium-paced > bowlers in cricket. I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking the occasional pattern) to work up an appetite for tea. You may disagree, but I've found that my impression of the game suffices for those rare occasions when I encounter it on the telly, usually while clicking quickly through the channels. I've never been to a match (you call them matches, right?) in person. I'm sure many AUE-ers from other lands than the US have a similar impression of American football, except that the beverage of choice is beer. SignatureBob Lieblich Punting >I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men >in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >usually while clicking quickly through the channels. I've never been >to a match (you call them matches, right?) in person. I have attended some matches in Jolly Olde, and I assure you that you are wrong. There is no way they could work up an appetite from the effort required in playing cricket. Good thing, too, because the nosh during/after is sparse. The crowd does dress well, though, and they bring (?) magnificent folding canvas sling chairs. None of these $5.00 chair-in-a-sack things you see at American field events where there are no bleachers. The crowds (well, the gathering of onlookers) are well-mannered and often look up from their books (some quite good authors spotted on book jackets, and the watchers all bring hard-backs)only to murmur encouragingly and clap in a refined, if somewhat desultory, manner. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men > >in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > book jackets, and the watchers all bring hard-backs)only to murmur > encouragingly and clap in a refined, if somewhat desultory, manner. Sounds delightful. Now if you could only remove the athletes and their equipment, in order to ensure that no one is accidentally injured, you'd have a truly delightful event. SignatureBob Lieblich Googly is your friend (?) >> >I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men >> >in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > their equipment, in order to ensure that no one is accidentally > injured, you'd have a truly delightful event. See -- a couple of Americans seem to understand cricket, at least. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>> >I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men >>> >in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >See -- a couple of Americans seem to understand cricket, at least. Although there are couple of terminological quirks. The players are not described as "athletes" and their clothes are not "uniforms". I look forward to these Americans learning even more about the game so that they can explain it to me, an Englishman. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> >I've decided that cricket is impossible to play and that all those men >> >in the funny uniforms are just running around semi-randomly (faking [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >their equipment, in order to ensure that no one is accidentally >injured, you'd have a truly delightful event. <more manly giggling> SignatureAl in St. Lou [I say, that's cricket] > <more manly giggling> Is that, like, manlier or gigglier? >[I say, that's cricket] > >> <more manly giggling> > >Is that, like, manlier or gigglier? You don't expect an answer, do you? SignatureAl in St. Lou >> [I say, that's cricket] >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You don't expect an answer, do you? An obaue, it is clearly understood.... >>"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > impression of American football, except that the beverage of choice is > beer. Hmm. I do find American football difficult to follow at times, but the language is not that difficult. Cricket, baseball and golf have the most incomprehensible jargon for outsiders. SignatureRob Bannister > Hmm. I do find American football difficult to follow at times, but > the language is not that difficult. Oh, good. Could you jot down a brief summary of the common formations and patterns? SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |This isn't good. I've seen good, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |and it didn't look anything like Palo Alto, CA 94304 |this. | MST3K kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote : >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >language is not that difficult. Cricket, baseball and golf have the most >incomprehensible jargon for outsiders. Any examples for baseball or golf? SignatureAl in St. Lou >>Hmm. I do find American football difficult to follow at times, but >>the language is not that difficult. Cricket, baseball and golf have >>the most incomprehensible jargon for outsiders. > > Any examples for baseball or golf? Much of baseball terminology is pretty straightforward, but I can see how some could be quite confusing. "Ball" and "strike" are historical carryovers. Without understanding them, "base on balls" and "struck out" are weird. (And why is it bad to strike out in baseball, when it's good in bowling?) Why is there no connection between a "walk" and a "run"? "Pitching" derives from the old motion, when "throwing" was illegal. "At bat" is pretty straightforward, but "on deck" or "in the hole"? There's a curve in a "curveball", but where's the screw in the "screwball"? And why aren't the knuckles involved in the way a "knuckleball" is (usually) thrown? What's a "change-up" a change from? What does a "clean-up hitter" clean up? What's sweet about the "sweet spot" of a bat? And those are just technical terms. It doesn't even cover informal turns like "ducks on the pond" or "tools of ignorance" or "five-o'clock hitter" or "can of corn". Much less things like "glove foot" and "throwing foot" or "squishing the bug". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It's gotten to the point where the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |only place you can get work done is Palo Alto, CA 94304 |at home, because no one bugs you, |and the best place to entertain kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |yourself is at work, because the (650)857-7572 |Internet connections are faster. | Scott Adams http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > impression of American football, except that the beverage of choice is > beer. Oh, the beverage of choice for cricket can be beer as well! I believe the rule at the SCG (Sydney Cricket Ground) used to be that only one slab (that is, a cardboard case containing twenty-four 375ml cans) of beer per person was allowed upon entry. That would last you about two-thirds of a day of a five-day test match. The last third would be spent in a sunburnt stupor. Now, no alcohol is allowed to be brought into the ground. You can buy 'lite' beer in plastic cups at exorbitant prices, if that sort of thing appeals. And I think there's a limit to the number of beers you can order at once as well. SignatureStupot http://insignity.blogspot.com > Oh, the beverage of choice for cricket can be beer as well! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > appeals. And I think there's a limit to the number of beers you can > order at once as well. Do you find this bit of good ol' American ingenuity in Australia? <http://www.thebeerbelly.com/Beerbelly_p/200-001.htm> Of course, you couldn't use it like the model in the photo. You'd have to hide it under a shirt. And then where would the tube come out? I have a terrible feeling about that one... (Note: I have no idea if this is actually an American invention.) SignatureSML >>I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: >>'On television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > disquised off-break delivery by a leg spin bowler with what > appears to be a leg spin action. Actually, if I might up-pedant you, just for the sake of accuracy you understand ... A googly can certainly be, as you say, a delivery by a leg-spin bowler which appears to be a leg-break but which, in fact, breaks from the off. But it is not only leg-spinners who bowl googlies. So do left-arm wrist-spinners. Their googly, as opposed to their routine delivery which is normally called a 'chinaman' (let's not go there - Ed [I suspect we already have - PE]), looks as though it's going to break from the off but in fact breaks from the leg. (Just like the doosra does). The chinaman, of course, looks as though it's going to break from the off and does break from the off. But I would agree that a doosra is not a googly. Googlies by definition are only bowled by wrist-spinners. Finger-spinners bowl doosras, and presumably - although I've never seen a successful purveyor - it is possible for a left-arm finger-spinner to produce one. Doubtless my not-quite-nextdoor neighbour, Monty Panesar, is already working on his. I'm sure everyone is entirely clear now. Soon, no doubt, we'll be talking about 'arm balls' and 'flippers'. Philip Eden ... ... a one-time purveyor of chinamen and googlies, although my attempted googlies were identical to my chinamen, sadly. > Actually, if I might up-pedant you, just for the sake of > accuracy you understand ... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > looks as though it's going to break from the off and does break > from the off. Surely the chinaman is the "wrong 'un", not the stock ball - so the left-arm leg-break moves into the right-handed batsman (away from the left-hander), and the chinaman moves away from the right-hander (and into the left-hander). I always have to imagine the left-armer bowling to a left-handed batsman to make any sense of this. > But I would agree that a doosra is not a googly. Agreed. Regards Jonathan "Jonathan Morton" <jonathan@jonathanmortonbutignorethisbit.co.uk> wrote: > "Dave Ross" <NotThalTheOtherOne@free.fr> wrote : >> Actually, if I might up-pedant you, just for the sake of >> accuracy you understand ... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I always have to imagine the left-armer bowling to a left-handed > batsman to make any sense of this. Just think of it as the opposite of the (right-arm) leg-break and googly bowler. The left-armer's chinaman (as you say, stock ball) is an off-break and his googly is a leg-break. Philip Eden > Just think of it as the opposite of the (right-arm) leg-break and googly > bowler. > The left-armer's chinaman (as you say, stock ball) is an off-break and his > googly is a leg-break. Actually I said I thought the stock ball was just a "left arm leg break" (i.e. an off-break to a right-handed batsman) and that it was the "wrong 'un" which was properly the chinaman. BICBW. Of course, the idea is that while you're thinking about it he's got you out. Regards Jonathan ... > I'm sure everyone is entirely clear now. All I know is Murali's a chucker, like. (Or do I mean "innit"?) Are you remonikerizing yourself as Dave Ross in keeping with conservation of Rosses, now that TPFKA Ross is Archie? Enquiring minds... -- Jerry Friedman > On Apr 17, 11:27 am, "Dave Ross" <NotThalTheOther...@free.fr> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Enquiring > minds... I'm on holiday in France at the moment, using a locally-acquired account. Actually the connection between name and apparent e-mail address may be worthy of an SDC question. In fact, if no-one can get the link before I return home, I'll offer it to the totally official question setters. Philip Eden A doosra is a disguised leg-break delivery by an off spin bowler with what appears to be an off spin action, whereas a googly is a disquised off-break delivery by a leg spin bowler with what appears to be a leg spin action. Oh dear, I was afraid of this. I had an intriguing image of a leg spin bowler until I looked it up. (Wiki hit for "leg spin bowler".) But soon I will forget and be able to enjoy my Popeye style cartoon again. -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: >'On television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > been in the news), but googling the expression told me that a > 'doosra' is a kind of googly. Actually, it shouldn't have said "pick out", just "pick". Good batsmen can "pick" (or "read") a disguised delivery. I never could. Philip Eden > >I read a report in the Independent today that had the headline: > >'On television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > batsmen > can "pick" (or "read") a disguised delivery. I never could. Being an oarsman, I was never able to pick even an undisguised delivery! "Doosra", by the way, courteously follows Indo-European rules by meaning "second": in this use, I suppose the sense is "alternative". (See Apteryx for more lowdown on wrong'unness.) SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >'On television I can pick out Murali's doosra, but it's different > >from 22 yards'. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Philip Eden And of course, in addition to all that has been said above, the reason that Murali's doosra is especially troublesone is that his action allows him to produce it with regularity, disguise and added bounce, which complicates shot selection in attack and defence enormously. TOF |
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