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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2007Prince Charles gives Camilla two sheep for her birthday
Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday Sat Jul 21 LONDON (AFP) - Britain's Prince Charles surprised his wife, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, with an unusual gift on her 60th birthday -- two sheep, the Daily Mail reported Saturday. Camilla is delighted with the rare breed ram and ewe, which cost the heir to the throne around 300 pounds (446 euros, 617 dollars) each, according to the paper, which headlined its story "Happy birthday to ewe!" "The royal family have so much already that they don't actually give wildly extravagant presents," said an unnamed friend of Camilla, quoted by the paper. "Their gifts tend to be more thoughtful -- although some may view them as a little bit crazy. "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chuffed to bits."  SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" [snip] > "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chuffed to bits." [snip] I think the ambiguity is intended, "chuffed" meaning either pleased or displeased. Us simple folk aren't entitled to know Camilla's mindset, apparently. -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >displeased. Us simple folk aren't entitled to know Camilla's mindset, >apparently. I've never come across the "displeased" meaning of "chuffed". From a BrE standpoint, and in the context of its having been said by one of Camilla's friends, I can't imagine it meaning anything other than "thrilled" or "overcome with delight". "Not pleased" would be "dischuffed". SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ [snip] > I've never come across the "displeased" meaning of "chuffed". From a > BrE standpoint, and in the context of its having been said by one of > Camilla's friends, I can't imagine it meaning anything other than > "thrilled" or "overcome with delight". > > "Not pleased" would be "dischuffed". Here's an excerpt from OED2 that reflects the ambiguity: chuffed, a. a. Pleased, satisfied. b. Displeased, disgruntled. a. 1957 P. Wildeblood Main Chance ix. 163 Aren't you pleased? There's not many kids of your age what owns a factory. You ought to be dead chuffed about it. 1960 A. Waugh Foxglove Saga xii. 218 He was chuffed at this new monumental skive he had discovered. 1961 S. Price Just for Record iv. 29 My beard is black, all-black. That makes me pretty chuffed. 1967 Crescendo May 6 (Advt.), I cannot express too much just how 'chuffed' I am with the drums. 1960 D. Storey This Sporting Life i. ii. 59, I felt pretty chuffed with myself. 1964 C. Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or she'll be dead chuffed, see? She don' like the law. -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or > she'll be dead chuffed, see? She don' like the law. I can't see the "b" in your posted extract. OED online has: a. Pleased, satisfied. b. Displeased, disgruntled. a. 1957 P. WILDEBLOOD Main Chance ix. 163 Aren't you pleased? There's not many kids of your age what owns a factory. You ought to be dead chuffed about it. 1960 A. WAUGH Foxglove Saga xii. 218 He was chuffed at this new monumental skive he had discovered. 1961 S. PRICE Just for Record iv. 29 My beard is black, all-black. That makes me pretty chuffed. 1967 Crescendo May 6 (Advt.), I cannot express too much just how ‘chuffed’ I am with the drums. b. 1960 D. STOREY This Sporting Life I. ii. 59, I felt pretty chuffed with myself. 1964 C. DALE Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or she'll be dead chuffed, see? She don' like the law. I am baffled as to why the Storey example is interpreted as displeased, and the dale example is equally unclear. This is not ambiguity IMO, just error. Coincidentally, I had just been listening to a review of a BBC programme to be broadcast later this evening about the 1950s court case involving Wildeblood and Lord Montagu and had Ggled Wildeblood. His book "Main Chance" is also cited as the source of a usage of the word "loo". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [snip] > This is not ambiguity IMO, just error. [snip] I think the "C. Dale" usage led the big dic to include the "displeased" sense, and I agree (after looking at all the "pleased" usages at Google-News) that the entry should at least have "rare" after the "displeased" sense. -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >usages at Google-News) that the entry should at least have "rare" >after the "displeased" sense. I think that either the C Dale person misused the word 'chuffed', or there's a lot of context missing. The 'she' referred to, who didn't like the law, would be chuffed if she actively disliked the person being chased by the police, for example. SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England >>[snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > like the law, would be chuffed if she actively disliked the person > being chased by the police, for example. Without more context, I find it hard to know exactly what is meant. I took it to mean that the person spoken to wouldn't want "her" to be pleased, and that if she knew the person were being chased by the police she would be. Alternatively, for all I know, the person being spoken to is a police officer. SignatureRob Bannister [re: OED: chuffed ... b. Displeased, disgruntled. ... 1964 C. Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or she'll be dead chuffed, see? She don' like the law.] > > I think that either the C Dale person misused the word 'chuffed', or > > there's a lot of context missing. The 'she' referred to, who didn't > > like the law, would be chuffed if she actively disliked the person > > being chased by the police, for example. > > Without more context, I find it hard to know exactly what is meant. True, but in this case the context is, 'The OED editors think this is an example of "chuffed" meaning "displeased, disgruntled," evem if it's not self-evident.' The OED's opinion does count for something -- and they *had* more context. >I > took it to mean that the person spoken to wouldn't want "her" to be > pleased, and that if she knew the person were being chased by the police > she would be. Alternatively, for all I know, the person being spoken to > is a police officer. There are all kinds of ways to twist things to try to fit one's preconceptions. But in this case, there have been more meanings to the words "chuff" and "chuffed" than the UK-Plussers use in 2007. Shakespeare, William, 1564-1616 : The First Part of King Henry IV 1596-1597 FALSTAFF Hang ye, gorbellied knaves, are ye undone? No, ye fat chuffs: I would your store were here! On, bacons, on! What, ye knaves! young men must live. You are Grand-jurors, are ye? we'll jure ye, ' faith. [Here they rob them and bind them. Exeunt] L.T. Meade, "a Very Naughty Girl," Pub. NY, 1905: "I am afraid of Lady Frances. Miss Audrey can be very rude. She was very chuff with me on New Year's Day." "She won't be chuff with you in my presence," said Evelyn. Also, ibid: "I cannot see why she should be rude and chuff and disagreeable ... (From University Of Virginia's Ebook Library) SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >[re: OED: chuffed ... b. Displeased, disgruntled. ... 1964 C. >Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >self-evident.' The OED's opinion does count for something -- and they >*had* more context. I'm not convinced. The quote is from someone writing dialogue in someone else's dialect. They may well be in error about how, say, cockneys use 'chuffed'. It's also notable that both the OED's quotes are from the 1960s. I'd have expected earlier if 'chuffed' had a long pedigree of meaning pissed off. Note also that in the entry for 'chuff' meaning churlish the OED marks it as obsolete and dialect. As a native English speaker I'm not convinced that many people in the UK currently use 'chuffed' to mean anything other than pleased, and I'd like to see more convincing evidence that they ever did. >>I >> took it to mean that the person spoken to wouldn't want "her" to be [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > [Here they rob them and bind them. Exeunt] > Different word, maybe be derived from the bird. >L.T. Meade, "a Very Naughty Girl," Pub. NY, 1905: > "I am afraid of Lady Frances. Miss Audrey can be very > rude. She was very chuff with me on New Year's Day." > "She won't be chuff with you in my presence," > said Evelyn. As stated above, this usage marked by OED as obsolete and dialect. And a US publication. ... SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. > I'm not convinced. The quote is from someone writing dialogue in > someone else's dialect. They may well be in error about how, say, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > pleased, and I'd like to see more convincing evidence that they > ever did. I recall "chuffed" from the UK in the early 1960s (and perhaps also the late 1950s), but the word did not seem to have made it to Oz. However I have a South African friend who keeps saying it, and I think our Leftpondian friends are gradually figuring out what it means. Perce > >[re: OED: chuffed ... b. Displeased, disgruntled. ... 1964 C. > >Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I'm not convinced. I see this more as an exploration than a debate. >The quote is from someone writing dialogue in > someone else's dialect. They may well be in error about how, say, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the UK currently use 'chuffed' to mean anything other than > pleased, Oh, well, there appears to be no argument about that. Nobody has shown any evidence that a second meaning is in use right now. >and I'd like to see more convincing evidence that they > ever did. I suppose I should haul out Cassell's again and type out their entries in full, but that's so tedious. Google Books has a bunch of 19th century dialectal dictionaries now, from various English counties. Why the heck Google restricts them to their stupid little snippets instead allowing us to view entire pages, I don't know -- can these still be protected by British copyright? They show various meanings of chuff, chuffy, and chuffed, including ones like miserly and churlish. snip > >L.T. Meade, "a Very Naughty Girl," Pub. NY, 1905: > > "I am afraid of Lady Frances. Miss Audrey can be very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > As stated above, this usage marked by OED as obsolete and > dialect. Aren't we talking about old uses (obsolete) and dialect (geographically limited)? >And a US publication. Which does not mean it is a US writer. Few US writers ever talk about "Lady" so-and-so. And indeed, the Web has a biography of the author: L. T. Meade (Elizabeth Thomasina Meade Smith) was a prolific writer of novels for girls and women. During her writing career, she wrote over 280 books, as well as short stories and articles for magazines such as The Strand Magazine and Lady's Pictorial. During her most productive period, she published more than ten novels a year. Elizabeth Thomasina Meade was born in County Cork, Ireland in 1844, and was the eldest daughter of a Protestant clergyman. She developed an early ambition to write, a prospect which horrified her father. Upon the death of her mother, her father remarried and Meade moved to London where she prepared herself for her writing career by studying in the Reading Room of the British Museum. [snip remainder] It should be possible to look through the fuller text at the Ebooks site and establish where the first character came from. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >Google Books has a bunch of 19th century dialectal dictionaries now, >from various English counties. Why the heck Google restricts them to >their stupid little snippets instead allowing us to view entire pages, >I don't know -- can these still be protected by British copyright? By my calculation, literary works by GBS (born 1856) come out of British copyright on 1 January 2021. So yes, it is possible. >They show various meanings of chuff, chuffy, and chuffed, including >ones like miserly and churlish. My old Chambers says similarly for chuff and chuffy. SignaturePaul > >Google Books has a bunch of 19th century dialectal dictionaries now, > >from various English counties. Why the heck Google restricts them to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > My old Chambers says similarly for chuff and chuffy. I think you're right about no "chuffed" -- I didn't go back and look at the entries, but now that I think about it again, I think they were all "chuff" and "chuffy". Total change of subject -- we watched a lot of news (CNN-Int, BBC 1) today about the current bad floods in England and the preparations for more. My sympathies for all the disruption, and again I am impressed with the courage and good spirits the British show in times of crisis. (At least, if anyone is being whiny and bitchy, they're not getting air time.) SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux An American living in the Netherlands [...] > Total change of subject -- we watched a lot of news (CNN-Int, BBC 1) > today about the current bad floods in England and the preparations for > more. My sympathies for all the disruption, and again I am impressed > with the courage and good spirits the British show in times of crisis. > (At least, if anyone is being whiny and bitchy, they're not getting air > time.) Yes, people are being pretty sensible. I don't think even Vinny could blame the Govt for this. My water's just gone off, so I'll decamp to a daughter's place. (They've had to evacuate the water-treatment plant.) To my sadness, there isn't a Severn Bore due till the end of August: that I'd really have liked to see in these conditions. But I suppose flooding would simply reduce its effect. -- Mike. >[...] >> Total change of subject -- we watched a lot of news (CNN-Int, BBC 1) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Yes, people are being pretty sensible. I don't think even Vinny could >blame the Govt for this. There have been reports of looting, so some Brits are handling the crisis with stiff upper lips and nimble fingers. I'm just glad I live on a hill. SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:34:05 -0700, Mike Lyle > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > crisis with stiff upper lips and nimble fingers. I'm just glad I live > on a hill. Oh dear. Now Vinny _will_ blame the Government. -- Mike. >> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:34:05 -0700, Mike Lyle >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Oh dear. Now Vinny _will_ blame the Government. So he should. If the gummint had built all the new waterways the country needed last year to get water to areas which had a drought, those same waterways would now take all the excess water away. Stands to reason, dunnit. Dunnit? SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England >>>>> Total change of subject -- we watched a lot of news (CNN-Int, BBC 1) >>>>> today about the current bad floods in England and the preparations for >>>>> more. My sympathies for all the disruption, and again I am impressed >>>>> with the courage and good spirits the British show in times of crisis. >>>>> (At least, if anyone is being whiny and bitchy, they're not getting air >>>>> time.) >>>> Yes, people are being pretty sensible. I don't think even Vinny could >>>> blame the Govt for this. >>> There have been reports of looting, so some Brits are handling the >>> crisis with stiff upper lips and nimble fingers. I'm just glad I live >>> on a hill. >> Oh dear. Now Vinny _will_ blame the Government. > So he should. If the gummint had built all the new waterways the > country needed last year to get water to areas which had a drought, > those same waterways would now take all the excess water away. Stands > to reason, dunnit. Dunnit? It is no longer the government's job to build new waterways. Control of water supply and drainage has been given over to private companies. The job of those private companies is to make money for their shareholders. This is considered so obviously the right way to do things that anyone who questions it is a left-wing extremist who wants to return to the bad old days of the 1970s when dead bodies littered the streets etc etc etc. Matthew Huntbach >It is no longer the government's job to build new waterways. Control of >water supply and drainage has been given over to private companies. >The job of those private companies is to make money for their shareholders. >This is considered so obviously the right way to do things that anyone >who questions it is a left-wing extremist who wants to return to the bad old >days of the 1970s when dead bodies littered the streets etc etc etc. And, of course, one of the ways they've increased the money for their shareholders is by replacing lots of little local water treatment works with a few big ones thereby gaining economies of scale (~= putting lots of people out of work). Had they not done that, many people who now don't have any drinking water would be fine. Eggs and baskets come to mind. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:34:05 -0700, Mike Lyle >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Oh dear. Now Vinny _will_ blame the Government. I think it's fairly clear that some of the effects of the unusual rainfall could have been mitigated if drains had been properly maintained. Daughter, who is busy sending teams to help out in affected areas from the London council she works for, tells me that responsibility for dealing with the emergency is very unclear, as far as local authorities are concerned. Son, who may well be paddling through his living room at the moment, reported yesterday that the canal bank was full of officials from all sorts of different agencies, pacing up and down. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >I think it's fairly clear that some of the effects of the unusual >rainfall could have been mitigated if drains had been properly maintained. The two floods we had this time last year were both due to blocked culverts, neither of which have been maintained by anyone for years. >Daughter, who is busy sending teams to help out in affected areas from >the London council she works for, tells me that responsibility for >dealing with the emergency is very unclear, as far as local authorities >are concerned. Son, who may well be paddling through his living room at >the moment, reported yesterday that the canal bank was full of officials >from all sorts of different agencies, pacing up and down. The culvert that blew up near the railway last July (http://www.davebudd.org.uk/flood/) is still broken. As is the road - a huge hole remains, which commuters either clamber over or avoid using a roundabout route. No-one knows who owns the road - it's not the householders, or it would have been on their deeds. The council denies all knowledge although they did that last work on it. The local MP is doing her best to get the council and the rail network to get the culvert and road repaired together - it's in their best interests since any heavy rain we get now (aha, like , indeed, /right/ now) causes more flooding on the line and the main road. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:34:05 -0700, Mike Lyle ><mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >crisis with stiff upper lips and nimble fingers. I'm just glad I live >on a hill. I live at the foot of a hill, but it's porous. A river runs through my garden. Its source is 50 yards upstream. In really heavy rain, its depth rises from 2 inches to 20 inches. Live dangerously! And we had a fish once (troutus parvus), but it perished, an innocent victim of the deathly shallows. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! [...] > >There have been reports of looting, so some Brits are handling the > >crisis with stiff upper lips and nimble fingers. I'm just glad I live [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fish once (troutus parvus), but it perished, an innocent victim of the > deathly shallows. And he makes it seem so effortless, too! I had a stream like that in Wales: its width varied from six inches during a severe drought to twenty yards one spectacular monsoon. It's quite amusing that the first thing we lose during floods is water: I filled my bath in the nick of time, of course; but now it's a real puzzle where I'm going to keep the coal. -- Mike. > [...] >> >There have been reports of looting, so some Brits are handling the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > filled my bath in the nick of time, of course; but now it's a real > puzzle where I'm going to keep the coal. Paint it white and put it in the corner of your bedroom. SignatureRay UK > I had a stream like that in Wales: its width varied from six inches > during a severe drought to twenty yards one spectacular monsoon. It's > quite amusing that the first thing we lose during floods is water: I > filled my bath in the nick of time, of course; but now it's a real > puzzle where I'm going to keep the coal. Presumably you had to remove the horse before storing the coal. Put the coal wherever you put the horse, and tell him he's on a new diet. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >[...] >> Total change of subject -- we watched a lot of news (CNN-Int, BBC 1) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >blame the Govt for this. My water's just gone off, so I'll decamp to a >daughter's place. (They've had to evacuate the water-treatment plant.) Well, the opposition had a try - the Govt is to blame because the flood defences couldn't cope. Well, no, they weren't designed to cope with a month's rain in a day. But the amount of rain is hardly the Govt's fault. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary On Jul 26, 3:38?pm, Amethyst Deceiver <s...@lindsayendell.org.uk> wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:34:05 -0700, Mike Lyle > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > with a month's rain in a day. But the amount of rain is hardly the > Govt's fault. I've been impressed by the speed with which they set up blue plastic tanks of water all over the place for people to help themselves from. I gather that some of these have been emptying faster than they can be refilled, though. The nearest thing to bitching I've heard was a couple of women complaining on local radio that some people were taking more than their share from the bowsers. Bottled water is also being issued (free of charge, of course); I grabbed a pack in town today, as I've now used up my covered containers and would rather not use the supply in the bath for drinking. But get this: my bottled water is labelled "Product of Turkey". Does this mean British suppliers have been trying to gouge the government or the water company? Or does the water company own the Turkish company? Or what? -- MIke. >Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >(At least, if anyone is being whiny and bitchy, they're not getting air >time.) Thank you, Donna. The Thames peak is due to pass my office in about 12 hours time... Personally, I have the attitude of a child to all this, and am rather thrilled, while knowing it's pretty disastrous (but not the end of the world) for many. Our cat food supplier has just informed us that their premises are unfit for use for the next 6 months (don't ask me to explain - I think it's to do with stripping out the interior, letting it dry out, then getting in the workmen to do the re-plastering and rewiring and replumbing and repainting and...). Since I know that my mother regularly experienced winter floods into our kitchen and bathroom, and managed to keep cooking and washing in rubber boots, and since part of my boyhood sport was watching the car drivers try to get through the floods outside our house without swamping their engines or strangling their exhausts and stalling in the midst of it (when the farmer would appear with his Ferguson or Fordson Major tractor and negotiate a pull-out fee), I suppose I'm not personally overawed by what's going on this time around. Always look on the bright side of life, eh? SignaturePaul > Google Books has a bunch of 19th century dialectal dictionaries now, > from various English counties. Why the heck Google restricts them to > their stupid little snippets instead allowing us to view entire pages, I > don't know As I happens, I wrote to Google a month or so ago about a 19th century title that was restricted on Google Books and got what I thought was a very reasonable answer in reply: they want to err on the side of making things searchable, even if they haven't yet been vetted for copyright status. Since, as we know, the dates attached to things in their database aren't always reliable indications of the actual publication date, and since other factors besides date of publication (personal vs. corporate authorship; death date of author) can be a factor, I guess they have to have humans involved. The work I had asked about turned up in downloadble form the following week. I don't know if my query accelerated the change of status or not. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >As a native English speaker I'm not convinced that many people in >the UK currently use 'chuffed' to mean anything other than >pleased, and I'd like to see more convincing evidence that they >ever did. For what they're worth, here are entries from Ted Duckworth's _A dictionary of Slang and colloquialisms of the UK_: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm chuff Noun. 1. Rubbish, nonsense. E.g."That film was boring, too long, and generally just total chuff." 2. The anus. [Orig Aust.] 3. The vagina. 4. A passing of wind from the anus, a 'fart'. Also used as a euphemism for 'f.ck' in expressions such as the denial - "Did I chuff!" Verb. To break wind. E.g."She chuffed just as we were saying grace before dinner" chuffed Adj. Pleased, delighted. Compare with 'dischuffed' and 'chuffed to buggery'. E.g."I'm well chuffed at the result." [1950s] chuffed as nuts Adj. Extremely pleased. chuffed to buggery / f.ck Adj. Very pleased. E.g."She's chuffed to buggery that they are marrying before the baby is born." chuffer Noun. 1. A contemptible person. 2. An annoying, difficult or disappointing occurrence. E.g."It's a right chuffer, breaking my leg just before the football season starts." Chuffer is a euphemism for 'f.cker'. chuffing Adj. An intensifier, and euphemism for 'f.cking'. E.g."That chuffing idiot scratched my favourite CD and now it sticks on the third track." chuffin 'ell! Exclam. Expressing anger, surprise etc. A euphemism for 'fuckin hell'. dischuffed Adj. Displeased. Cf. 'chuffed'. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> As a native English speaker I'm not convinced that many people in >> the UK currently use 'chuffed' to mean anything other than [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 1. Rubbish, nonsense. E.g."That film was boring, too long, and > generally just total chuff." I'd *guess* that that meaning originated from confusion with "chaff". > 2. The anus. [Orig Aust.] Never heard it in Australia -- but I've been gone a while now. <snip> > dischuffed > Adj. Displeased. Cf. 'chuffed'. Now that you mention it, I recall that from the '60s in the UK. Perce >> 2. The anus. [Orig Aust.] > > Never heard it in Australia -- but I've been gone a while now. I've been here for most of the last 60 years, and I've never heard it either. SignatureJim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ Clayton School of Information Technology, Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学 >> For what they're worth, here are entries from Ted Duckworth's _A >> dictionary of Slang and colloquialisms of the UK_: >> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm >> >> chuff [...] >> 2. The anus. [Orig Aust.] > > Never heard it in Australia -- but I've been gone a while now. The word itself must have gone a while now, because I've never heard of this one. In fact, I'd venture to guess that the word "chuffed" is never heard in Australia, in any sense, except from the mouths of English visitors. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> For what they're worth, here are entries from Ted Duckworth's _A >>> dictionary of Slang and colloquialisms of the UK_: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >heard in Australia, in any sense, except from the mouths of English >visitors. Thanks for the link. While looking for the entry for "chuff", I ran across "Chocolate starfish". Well worth the visit. > The word itself must have gone a while now, because I've never heard of > this one. In fact, I'd venture to guess that the word "chuffed" is never > heard in Australia, in any sense, except from the mouths of English > visitors. I'd agree with that. I haven't used it myself for decades, but I do hear it occasionally from less assimilated Poms. SignatureRob Bannister > There are all kinds of ways to twist things to try to fit one's > preconceptions. But in this case, there have been more meanings to the > words "chuff" and "chuffed" than the UK-Plussers use in 2007. [Examples snipped] Very true, although I would have needed to look up some of those adjective uses of "chuff" from Shakespeare. I have no difficulty with the "normal" use of the verb "chuff" to mean "inflate" or "puff up", but the adjective "chuffed" is one I have been familiar with since I was a teenager, so all I can say is that, in my experience, it has not meant "displeased" in BrE since at least 1953 (my entry into the first -teen). SignatureRob Bannister >> There are all kinds of ways to twist things to try to fit one's >> preconceptions. But in this case, there have been more meanings to the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >it has not meant "displeased" in BrE since at least 1953 (my entry into >the first -teen). I'd agree with that, and say that it was not part of my vocabulary (and therefore that of my parents) when I was growing up. I suspect that I first heard it used on one of the comedy programs on the BBC in the early 1950s, maybe "Educating Archie" or one with Jimmy Clitheroe. SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:52:39 +0800, Robert Bannister > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that I first heard it used on one of the comedy programs on the BBC in > the early 1950s, maybe "Educating Archie" or one with Jimmy Clitheroe. My first exposure to the term was from comedian Ken Dodd in the early 60s. He used to say "dead chuffed" (meaning pleased) all the time. I have a feeling that Jimmy Tarbuck used it a lot as well. As both were Scousers, I think I assumed it was a particularly Liverpudlian term. Mike M > > [snip] > >>I've never come across the "displeased" meaning of "chuffed". From a > >>BrE standpoint, and in the context of its having been said by one of > >>Camilla's friends, I can't imagine it meaning anything other than > >>"thrilled" or "overcome with delight". > >> > >>"Not pleased" would be "dischuffed". [snip OED entry shown again below] > I can't see the "b" in your posted extract. OED online has: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I am baffled as to why the Storey example is interpreted as displeased, It would be great if every dictionary citation fell in a completely self-explanatory sentence. I've often had to reassure myself that the dictionary-makers must have understood what they saw, even if they couldn't quote a long passage to justify it. > and the dale example is equally unclear. The only way I can read that is "she" will be upset in some way. > This is not ambiguity IMO, just error. Sometimes the origins of words are error-based. Goodness knows we've seen examples of that. Saying things ironically without giving enough clues can cause people to get it backwards. Cassell's Dictionary of Slang also assures us that "chuffed" has been used to mean displeased (although they don't give dates as they usually do). It has five or six meanings of "chuff" that are rude, anatomical, or unpleasant, and then it says that the origin was 16th C "chuff" meaning "swollen out or puffed with fat, or the muzzle of an animal. t says that even the "chuffed" that means "very pleased" was military in the 1950s, in combinations like "chuffed to f.ck," "chuffed to arseholes," and "chuffed to buggery." If you didn't *know* already what "chuffed" meant, *plus* the speaker was ironically expressing anger and displeasure, that would be a tough word to figure out. Howebver, a linguistic group reports that the more cheerful form shows up in old Northern dialects: c1860 in Northampton Dial., I saw the old man and he looked as chuff as ever, although he is between 80 and 90. 1876 Mid-Yorksh. Gloss. (E.D.S.) Chuff, expressive of a state of hilarious satisfaction, whether outwardly exhibited or not..`As chuff as a cheese', `As chuff as an apple'. 1881 Leicestersh . Gloss. (E.D.S.) Chuff, pleased, delighted, proud , conceited. `The children's quite chuff to come.' 1888 Sheffield Gloss. (E.D.S.) Chuff, proud, pleased. `Thar rare an' chuff o' that dog o' thoine.' SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> b. 1960 D. STOREY This Sporting Life I. ii. 59, I felt pretty chuffed >> with myself. 1964 C. DALE Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > seen examples of that. Saying things ironically without giving enough > clues can cause people to get it backwards. I think that's exactly what's happened with the Dale citation - like an ironic "Oh, she's really going to love you for that...". Regards Jonathan (Snip) > t says that even the "chuffed" that means "very pleased" was military in > the 1950s, in combinations like "chuffed to f.ck," "chuffed to > arseholes," and "chuffed to buggery." If you didn't *know* already what > "chuffed" meant, *plus* the speaker was ironically expressing anger and > displeasure, that would be a tough word to figure out. That's where I heard it first and most often, while in the Royal Navy in the 1950s -- often, of course, with the choice bits you quote. "Dead chuffed", like them, meant you were "pleased to little buttercups"; and that's a phrase you wouldn't use very often if you wanted to retain your reputation as a hard-living matlow. Later, in the 60s, hearing it with its negative connotation confused me because it correlated being pleased with being "pissed off". I don't think it was common in the US forces because the USAF people I worked with here in Canada in the 60s didn't seem to be familiar with it. Cheers, Sage >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > This is not ambiguity IMO, just error. I totally agree with that. The only possibility of "chuffed" meaning "displeased" to my mind is when it's used sarcastically, something that can be done with any "pleased" adjective. SignatureRob Bannister LFS wrote, in <5gf45pF3f6tsoU1@mid.individual.net> on Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:13:08 +0100: > Coincidentally, I had just been listening to a review of a BBC programme > to be broadcast later this evening about the 1950s court case involving > Wildeblood and Lord Montagu and had Ggled Wildeblood. His book "Main > Chance" is also cited as the source of a usage of the word "loo". That was published in 1957. Nancy Mitford used it in "Love in a Cold Climate" in 1949. "When the loo paper gets thicker and the writing paper thinner it's always a bad sign..." SignatureNick Spalding > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Dale Other People viii. 158 Don't let on they're after you, see, or > she'll be dead chuffed, see? She don' like the law. The problem is, with all those examples, I take the meaning to be pleased. The only ambiguous quote is the beard one, but only if there were a further quote showing he didn't like his beard. SignatureRob Bannister >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Not pleased" would be "dischuffed". Hear, hear. (Haven't we discussed this quite recently?) Cheers, sage > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > displeased. Us simple folk aren't entitled to know Camilla's mindset, > apparently. No ambiguity at all: chuffed in BrE means pleased. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >No ambiguity at all: chuffed in BrE means pleased. Certainly none in that excerpt, at any rate, but the OED records opposite senses. In Australia I occasionally hear "chuffed" used to mean "peeved" or "feeling mildly insulted", but I've never been completely sure there wasn't just an irony thing happening in those cases, as in "Oh yes, I was really thrilled when <something bad happened>". I find the following comment from the editors of a newsletter about Australian English titled OZWORDS, published by the Australian National Dictionary Centre, a joint venture between the Australian National University & Oxford University Press: The two senses of chuffed have a similar history, although they have always been pronounced the same way. There is a dialect adjective chuff (first recorded in 1609) that had the senses 1. swollen or puffed out with fat; chubby. 2. pleased, satisfied, happy. This goes back to a noun chuff (first recorded in 1530) that meant a cheek swollen or puffed with fat. But there is another dialect adjective chuff (first recorded in 1832) that means clownish, churlish, rude, surly, morose. This goes back to a noun chuff (first recorded in 1440) that meant 1. a rustic boor, clown, churl. 2. a rude coarse churlish fellow; a miser. From the seventeenth to the nineteenth centuries there was also available. The two meanings are also given in the Australian Oxford Dictionary. For its first meaning, the OED gives pleased, satisfied, with citations from 1957 onwards. For its second meaning, the OED gives displeased, disgruntled, with citations from 1960 onwards. From the written evidence it seems that these two opposite meanings emerged at about the same time. From the seventeenth to the nineteenth centuries there was also an adjective chuffy, again having both opposite meanings. What is curious about the chuffed form is that it emerges so latein the 1950s and 1960s. But both senses of the word have a long and venerable history. Damn. I made a copy-and-paste error and got the thing scrambled. The excerpt should read: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I [the Editor] must confess that I was familiar with only the positive meaning of this word, but a check in the large OED (now available online) shows that two meanings are available. The two meanings are also given in the Australian Oxford Dictionary. For its first meaning, the OED gives pleased, satisfied, with citations from 1957 onwards. For its second meaning, the OED gives displeased, disgruntled, with citations from 1960 onwards. From the written evidence it seems that these two opposite meanings emerged at about the same time. [...] The two senses of chuffed have a similar history, although they have always been pronounced the same way. There is a dialect adjective chuff (first recorded in 1609) that had the senses 1. swollen or puffed out with fat; chubby. 2. pleased, satisfied, happy. This goes back to a noun chuff (first recorded in 1530) that meant a cheek swollen or puffed with fat. But there is another dialect adjective chuff (first recorded in 1832) that means clownish, churlish, rude, surly, morose. This goes back to a noun chuff (first recorded in 1440) that meant 1. a rustic boor, clown, churl. 2. a rude coarse churlish fellow; a miser. From the seventeenth to the nineteenth centuries there was also an adjective chuffy, again having both opposite meanings. What is curious about the chuffed form is that it emerges so late in the 1950s and 1960s. But both senses of the word have a long and venerable history. --------------------------------------- If interested in this publication see http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/pubs/aebeg.php > Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday > Sat Jul 21 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chuffed to bits." Pervert! > Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday > Sat Jul 21 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > according to the paper, which headlined its story "Happy birthday to > ewe!" [...] I was preparing to be disgusted that nobody had seen fit to report what breed they were, but I see that the Mail did have a try, by asking a rare breeds expert: possibilities are Lesser Long Wool or Cotswold. Picture of the latter at: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=4698 06&in_page_id=1770 SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >Don Aitken wrote: >> Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article >_id=469806&in_page_id=1770 I treasure the thought that, in due conformity with gracious laws for the protection of those who buy, the ewe was surely stamped with a tup-by date. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday > Sat Jul 21 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chuffed to bits." Given her interest in sheep, anyone invited Camilla to enter the upcoming SDC? --Jeff SignatureThe most extravagant idea that can arise in a politician's head is to believe that it is enough for a people to invade a foreign county to make it adopt their laws and their constitution. No one loves armed missionaries... --Robespierre > LONDON (AFP) - Britain's Prince Charles surprised his wife, Camilla, > Duchess of Cornwall, with an unusual gift on her 60th birthday -- two > sheep, the Daily Mail reported Saturday. For his next birthday, she's planning to give him a pair of Wellingtons. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday > Sat Jul 21 > LONDON (AFP) - Britain's Prince Charles surprised his wife, Camilla, > Duchess of Cornwall, with an unusual gift on her 60th birthday -- two > sheep, the Daily Mail reported Saturday. [...] > "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chuffed to bits." The article author should write, "Camilla is, in fact, absolutely chomping at her bit." SignaturePurl Gurl -- So many are stumped by what slips right off the top of my mind like a man's bad fitting hairpiece. > Britain's Prince Charles gives wife sheep for birthday Two sheep - such a unique gift. Knowing how hard it is to find birthday presents for women, I'm delighted to hear Camilla was chuffed. Once when I bought underwear for my wife I wasn't quite sure of the correct size, so I made sure it will fit. For some reason my wife wasn't that scuffed. She muttered something about her pant size being S, not L. The rest of the day went in an icy atmosphere. Next year I bought her a brand new Playstation 2. I played a lot with it, but I don't remember her trying it even once. Never really gathered why. Following year's present was a cordless screwdriver, with impact. I thought it was a good gift, because I really needed a new one. She apparently didn't. She wasn't happy until the year I bought her a coffee cup, a very nice one, fine porcelain. For the first time she seemed to be really delighted. Next year I gave her another dish of the same series. She was again delighted, as now she could start collecting a beautiful set. The following year I gave her a new dish of the same series. This time she wasn't thrilled any more. She had found the remainder of the set, which I had hidden from her to the garage. I guess it means that I have to find something new this year. Wimmen - they are so hard to please! On Jul 27, 10:24 am, I wrote: > Once when I bought underwear for my wife I wasn't quite sure of the > correct size, so I made sure it will fit. For some reason my wife [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Wimmen - they are so hard to please! There might be one relevant piece of information I should add. I must confess that what I wrote wasn't in fact excerpts from my own life, nor from the life of any other single individual. But they indeed were real-life examples of birthday presents that possibly weren't the most successfull, reported by a local newspaper earlier this summer, so they weren't my own concoctions. The personal favourite of mine was the coffee set - such an ingenious way to solve birthday present dilemma for the next twenty years or so! Shame it didn't work out the way it was supposed to. |
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