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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2007Skitt: Help with Bay Area broadband info
I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local companies are the good and bad ones. Does it matter that she gets her phone service from AT&T, or does that mean she has to use AT&T broadband? Thing like this are easier in Taiwan. -- Franke: EFL teacher and medical editor. Native speaker of American English Posting from San Rafael, CA, as a stranger in a stranger land > I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL > and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local > companies are the good and bad ones. Does it matter that she gets her > phone service from AT&T, or does that mean she has to use AT&T > broadband? 1. No rule obliges a US resident to buy telephone and data services from the same carrier: but some carriers offer packages that include both classes of service. 2. "Broadband" used to mean cable service, which requires that a cable serve the subscriber's address. But wireless broadband is becoming increasingly common -- cf. the new municipal fashion that city halls offer to guarantee high-speed internet service everywhere in their territory, which (where cables do not run everywhere) only wireless can supply. (Wireless broadband is cheap for carriers because it uses existing cell phone towers i.e. requires no new hardware. To date the Canadian wireless broadband to which I subscribe, because no cable runs to my address, offers slower connect speeds than the cheapest high-speed cable package but costs as much as the second-highest: but there is no alternative at this address.)  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > 2. "Broadband" used to mean cable service, which > requires that a cable serve the subscriber's address. This is a pet peeve of mine, and I don't know how it got started. Broadband is one of those terms that has been defined a million times, for a million different purposes, but I never could figure out how you could define "broadband" so that it included cable internet, but not, say, DSL, ISDN, or a T-1. To the best of my knowledge, it was purely the result of cable ISPs advertising their services as "broadband" and other technologies, inexplicably, not. > (Wireless broadband is cheap for carriers because it uses > existing cell phone towers i.e. requires no new hardware. Well, no, it requires a lot of new hardware; it's just that they can hang it off an existing tower, which saves you lots of money. You need new antennae on the cell towers that are tuned to whatever frequencies your wireless internet connection uses, you need some terminal interface to connect it to the Internet, and of course, you need an Internet connection, none of which are necessarily going to be on your cell tower to start with (or else they won't be provisioned at the level needed to support the wireless connections, as is likely in the case of Internet connections). Plus you are likely to need new hardware in your NOC to support the new feed. -=Eric >> 2. "Broadband" used to mean cable service, which requires that a >> cable serve the subscriber's address. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was purely the result of cable ISPs advertising their services as > "broadband" and other technologies, inexplicably, not. This seems to vary with location. In my area, "broadband" is almost synonymous with ADSL. That might have something to do with our so-called "cable TV" (to which I don't subscribe) being supplied by satellite. I'm a little jealous of the broadband prices being thrown around in this thread. I'm paying about $50/month for a 512/128 kbps connection. I could make it cheaper by accepting a lower speed and a lower quota of gigabytes per month, but the speed is the minimum needed to have a VoIP phone. (In addition, I'm running server software from home. I could save about $5/month by giving up my fixed IP address.) Higher speeds are available to the rich, and also to people who live in bigger cities, but I'm still waiting for a better deal to be offered. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> 2. "Broadband" used to mean cable service, which requires that a >>> cable serve the subscriber's address. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >I'm a little jealous of the broadband prices being thrown around in this >thread. I'm paying about $50/month for a 512/128 kbps connection. I've noticed how little it costs in the US, too. I have broadband cable in the UK, the speed of which is determined by a setting in the cable modem by the cable company. I'm paying about $50 US per month for 4Mbs download, no idea what upload speed is, no limits to monthly volume. It would cost $75 per month for 10Mbs. SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England On 27 Jul 2007, Robin Bignall wrote >> I'm a little jealous of the broadband prices being thrown >> around in this thread. I'm paying about $50/month for a 512/128 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > speed is, no limits to monthly volume. It would cost $75 per > month for 10Mbs. I'm paying the same as you are -- £25 for the 4MB NTL-now-Virgin service -- but it's clearly possible to buy a cheaper product in parts of the country. I'm getting a little concerned about the service quality levels with VirginMedia these days, and am mulling over a serious look at "Be", which is enabled on our exchange: "up to 24MB" (realistically, where I am, about 8MB), for somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds less per month. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 27 Jul 2007, Robin Bignall wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I am, about 8MB), for somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds less per >month. Email seems to be working okay, and I use NI.N for news. When you mention 'exchange' I presume you've got a BT phone line, which I don't have. The VirginMedia cable also provides my phone service, so it's not a simple matter to change ISP. Incidentally, I now only use my land line for those calls that are chargeable on my mobile. The 300 minutes per month to any network that I get on my mobile contract is ten times more than I use. I'm not a phone person, possibly from growing up without one. My ex-wife has a good deal by which for 40 euros per month, including taxes, she can call 24/7 to any land line number in North America or the EU. Whenever anyone from another country calls her, she tells them to put the phone down and then she calls them back. She is a phone person, and makes full use of that contract. SignatureRobin Bignall Herts, England > On 27 Jul 2007, Robin Bignall wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > service -- but it's clearly possible to buy a cheaper product in > parts of the country. Watch that capitalization. If you're really getting 32 Mb/s for that rate, it's quite a deal. I'm paying $28/month for 6 Mb/s, although with taxes and the cost for the line itself, it comes to about $45/month. > I'm getting a little concerned about the service quality levels with > VirginMedia these days, and am mulling over a serious look at "Be", > which is enabled on our exchange: "up to 24MB" (realistically, where > I am, about 8MB), for somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds less per > month. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Reality is that which, when you 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |stop believing in it, doesn't go Palo Alto, CA 94304 |away. | kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Philip K. Dick (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Evan Kirshenbaum wrote, in <zm1he9zc.fsf@hpl.hp.com> on Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:51:35 -0700: > > On 27 Jul 2007, Robin Bignall wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > with taxes and the cost for the line itself, it comes to about > $45/month. That's the download limit, not the bit rate. Here in Ireland I am getting 2Mb/s ADSL from BT (the present owner of my ISP; it has been through three others in the 12 years I have been using them) with a 20GB limit plus line rental and free landline calls to anywhere in the British Isles for EUR54/month, around $35. This is about 40% less than I used to pay on dial-up when I was paying rental on two lines and for all my calls. I just have to remember not to make calls to mobiles on the landline but use up some of my EUR10 a month free allowance on my mobile. > > I'm getting a little concerned about the service quality levels with > > VirginMedia these days, and am mulling over a serious look at "Be", > > which is enabled on our exchange: "up to 24MB" (realistically, where > > I am, about 8MB), for somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds less per > > month. SignatureNick Spalding > I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL > and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local > companies are the good and bad ones. Does it matter that she gets > her phone service from AT&T, or does that mean she has to use AT&T > broadband? I've had good luck ith AT&T's DSL here in the Bay Area. I've used it for a number of years now, and I've only had a few outages I've noticed and only one that lasted more than a couple of hours (and knocked out service to most of our neighborhood). To get good rates you have to be willing to commit to a year at a time, but you can often ratchet up your level of service[1] for about the same money. Actually, I take that back. Looking at AT&T's site, they appear to have gotten rid of the contracts. It's now just month-to-month, $15 for 768 kb/s, $20 for 1.5 Mb/s, $25 for 3 Mb/s, and $35 for 6 Mb/s. [1] When I started, I think I was at 300 kb/s. I'm currently on a maximum of 6 Mb/s, and I can pretty much always get a sustained data transfer of about 5. My dad, near Chicago, is on cable modem, and when I visit him I find that I can often get about 8 Mb/s, but for hours at a time I can't do better than about 800 kb/s or 1 Mb/s. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |And the wildest dreams of Kew 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | are the facts of Khatmandhu, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |And the crimes of Clapham | chaste in Martaban. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | (650)857-7572 | Rudyard Kipling http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > > I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL > > and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Mb/s, but for hours at a time I can't do better than about 800 > kb/s or 1 Mb/s. * I use a Comcast cable modem on the San Francisco peninsula. My typical download speed is around 500 kBps (bytes) or about 4Mbps (bits). Upload speeds are significantly lower. earle * > I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL > and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thing like this are easier in Taiwan. What does she use for TV? Comcast? Comcast is the best broadband ISP where I am. I have speeds of up to 12/1.5 Mbps, and they very seldom fall below 9/1.4 Mbps. Comcast also has excellent newsgroup coverage. The price is a bit high, though -- about $42 per month. I don't know anything about AT&T, except that their available speeds are much lower. They claim to be the fastest *for the price*. SignatureSkitt I too am using SBCGlobal (ATT now..) and can't say I've been unhappy. And they own "the last mile" of copper wire to the residence, so in the end it is going to go over their infrastructure no matter who you sign up with if you go DSL rather than Cable. But as an alternative with a good reputation (much better in terms of handholding) that is actualy based in Marin, check out www.sonic.net - I'll think you'll find price is competitive, reliability is the same (uses AT&T's infrastructure) and they actualy have phone support that is not just a recorded message ("Your message is important to us....") but is actualy competent *and* willing to be of help. I recoommended them to a neighbor here, and was v. impressed Jitze > > I'm at my mother's place in Marin. She still has 56k-V90 dial-up AOL > > and I want to change that to broadband. I have no idea which local [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I don't know anything about AT&T, except that their available speeds are > much lower. They claim to be the fastest *for the price*. >But as an alternative with a good reputation (much better in terms of >handholding) that is actualy based in Marin, check out www.sonic.net - I'll >think you'll find price is competitive, reliability is the same (uses AT&T's >infrastructure) and they actualy have phone support that is not just a >recorded message ("Your message is important to us....") but is actualy >competent *and* willing to be of help. And a proud sponsor of _Maledicta_. Since Franke is on friendly terms with Rey, he could check with aman@sonic.net SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On Jul 24, 12:04 pm, tony cooper us....") but is actualy > >competent *and* willing to be of help. > > And a proud sponsor of _Maledicta_. Very possibly. This here is the Bay Area, not the Deepest South. [...] > But as an alternative with a good reputation (much better in terms of > handholding) that is actualy based in Marin, check out www.sonic.net, "Sonic.net" is right here in Santa Rosa (Sonoma County), just up the road (HWY 101), but it covers most of California and has access numbers nationwide. > - I'll think > you'll find price is competitive, reliability is the same (uses [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I recommended them to a neighbor here, and was v. impressed. Sonic's service, equipment, and reliability are unsurpassed. Their help is live, friendly, and very competent. You'll never get "Press 1 for X, oprima 'dos' para continuar en español" and all that extremely annoying menu sh.t you get when dialing almost any (big) company these days. I recommend Sonic.net 100% and have been a 100% satisfied customer since 1996. ~~~ Rey ~~~ ¡Oprima *this*! http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/ > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I recommend Sonic.net 100% and have been a 100% satisfied customer > since 1996. Were I making the choice, Rey, I would definitely choose Sonic Net, but my mother has decided to go with AT&T. Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. -- Franke: EFL teacher and medical editor. Native speaker of American English. Posting from hunger for real pizza. [...] > Were I making the choice, Rey, I would definitely choose Sonic Net, > but my mother has decided to go with AT&T. > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's $10/month, one-year commitment/contract, free DSL modem (after mail-in rebate). After one year, that rate will go up. ~~~ Rey ~~~ > [...] > > > Were I making the choice, Rey, I would definitely choose Sonic Net, > > but my mother has decided to go with AT&T. > > > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. > AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's > $10/month, one-year commitment/contract, free DSL modem (after mail-in > rebate). After one year, that rate will go up. I forgot to mention that AT&T charges a hefty fee for setting up their connection/modem. Be sure to read all the "small print." ~~~ Rey ~~~ > > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I forgot to mention that AT&T charges a hefty fee for setting up their > connection/modem. Be sure to read all the "small print." They seem to have changed their policy. The current deal is that for $19.99/mo, plus a $49.99 DSL modem (for which there is a $49.99 mail- in rebate), and $12.95 UPS shipping, they will UPS me the modem and all other necessaries to set the DSL line up by myself (just a couple of plug-ins), and add the charges to my mother's monthly phone bill. No contract, no set-up fee, no switching anything on at their end. Just a month-to-month usage charge of $19.99. The only difference I find between what AT&T said when I ordered the service over the phone and what Evan said about the online advert (which I looked at as well), is that I was told that there was only one residential possibility. Whatever the reality is, this upgrade will make the difference between our being able to use Skype to make video calls between Marin and Taiwan. My mother's 84 and has some of the same problems negotiating her PC as my stepmother does. I have to buy both of them webcams and set them up for video calls on this trip. I need to make it possible for her to upgrade her antivirus, antispam, and firewall software without having to wait five or six hours for an upgrade to download at 56 kbps. All of her current security software is at least two years out of date. I'll give you a call in about two weeks. -- Franke: EFL teacher and medical editor. Native speaker of American English. Posting with a rising BMI. I can't believe I ate three slices and the huge salad with blue cheese dressing! > > > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. > > > AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > No contract, no set-up fee, no switching anything on at their end. > Just a month-to-month usage charge of $19.99. Yes - it is month-to-month (not a 1 year contract) which is a sword that cuts both ways. My daughter installed this service about 4 months ago and just received a notice that her "month-to-month" costs go up to $29.99 a month, starting next month... so you get the "low ball" price for 6 months it seems Jitze >> > > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. >> > > AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Jitze That's negotiable. When I used AT&T (then SBC), I was told by them to call and ask for the promo rate after the original one expired. This is something called customer retention. All cable companies I dealt with, and one phone company, will allow you to renegotiate after promo the term has expired.[1] [1] I learned this quite by accident. Comcast kept raising its rates every six months. I got tired of it, switched to RCN and paid 1/3 less for cable services. When I called Comcast to cancel my account, I was switched to Customer Retention and was told they would match RCN's rate if I stayed. It was too late for their offer, since I was now physically connected to RCN, but ever since then I have renegotiated every year and expanded my service at a lower yearly cost. I now pay the about 50% less for service than what I paid originally. I learned my lesson. I now renegotiate nearly all my rate increases--there are certain notable exceptions; e.g., municipal fees and utilities. I even appeal my property assessment (usually successfully) every time there's an increase. obAUE: I'm tired of being shorn like all the other sheep. >>> > > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. >>> > > AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >service at a lower yearly cost. I now pay the about 50% less for service >than what I paid originally. What's more, you often get instant savings as well as long-term rate savings. Last time my cell phone contract matured, my carrier called to sign me up for a new contract. I told them I was reviewing other plans, and they extended my contract at the old price *and* gave me three months free basic service. Actually, I didn't plan to review other plans. I just didn't want them to take my business for granted. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>> > > > Thank you, everyone, for your helpful information and suggestions. >>>> > > AT&T has a special rate hidden somewhere on their Website. It's [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >three months free basic service. Actually, I didn't plan to review >other plans. I just didn't want them to take my business for granted. What I found was that no direct or implied threat of taking your business elsewhere is needed. Just tell the rep "I'd like a new rate" and let things follow.[1] You can do this at any time. You needn't have to choose a time near the expiration of the current rates. [1] This is in accord with my basic philosophy about such matters: Never assume what the answer will be, always ask. If you get what you asked for, that's great; if you don't, then you're no worse off than before you asked. > The only difference I find between what AT&T said when I ordered the > service over the phone and what Evan said about the online advert > (which I looked at as well), is that I was told that there was only > one residential possibility. Whatever the reality is, What you can get will depend on the quality of the wires between the phone company and the house. (Although I'm surprised that they wouldn't offer you the lower-speed options.) I suspect that it's simply a question of whether the phone line is an old one that was only expected to carry voice or a new one put in after the phone company thought of phone lines as data carriers as well. For a while, I could only get 768 kb/s on my line. Then they put in new wires in my area that would support their then-maximum 3 Mb/s. When I found out about this, I called to upgrade and was told that I could do this, but that in order to do this, my phone line would have to be switched to a new wire. No problem. But they couldn't put in the order for the upgrade until that was done, so they would have to first disconnect the DSL service. Then, when they had confirmed that it was disconnected and the line was changed, they could put in the order to reconnect and give me the new speed. Which would have my service out for an estimated two weeks. Problem. Eventually, I decided to simply add a cheapest possible second line and switch the DSL service to it. (We use the second line as a fax line.) Luckily, the new line had no problem with the upgrade to 6 Mb/s. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There is something fascinating 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |about science. One gets such Palo Alto, CA 94304 |wholesale returns of conjecture out |of such a trifling investment of kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |fact. (650)857-7572 | Mark Twain http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >What does she use for TV? Comcast? Comcast is the best broadband ISP where >I am. > >I have speeds of up to 12/1.5 Mbps, and they very seldom fall below 9/1.4 >Mbps. Comcast also has excellent newsgroup coverage. The price is a bit >high, though -- about $42 per month. Alec, that's negotiable. I've been renegotiating my rate every year and have consistently lowered my cost and increased service. Call them and ask about Customer Retention. If there is any competition, even satellite, you should be able to lock in long term promo rates, and when the lock expires, just do it again. >> What does she use for TV? Comcast? Comcast is the best broadband >> ISP where I am. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > even satellite, you should be able to lock in long term promo rates, > and when the lock expires, just do it again. Thanks, Murray. I might try that. SignatureSkitt |
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