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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Dodgy accents in films.
The thread about Vernon God Little made me think about the dodgy British or early American accents I've heard in films. I still love "Mary Poppins" despite Dick Van Dyke's cocked-up cockney. And Pacino's ludicrous accent in "Revolution" was the least of the disasters in that fiasco. I was however irrevocably confused by the accents in "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", some of which were British, some American, and some a strangled mishmash of the two, which just underlined the fact that we don't really know how Americans spoke in those days. I'd nominate Johnny Depp's accent in that film as the most manneredly preposterous I've ever heard on film, closely followed by Sean Connery's Irish accent in "The Untouchables"). What would be your nomination? Peasemarch. > The thread about Vernon God Little made me think about the dodgy > British or early American accents I've heard in films. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > What would be your nomination? 1) Terence Stamp in "Blue" -- He plays an orphan raised from a tender age by an American Indian tribe... and manages to emerge from the experience speaking with a Cockney accent. 2) Not really a personal nomination, but I came across this today: http://www.channel4.com/film/newsfeatures/news_story.jsp?storyId=2967 CRITICS PICK ON EWAN'S ACCENT Critics in America have hit out at EWAN McGREGOR's performance in his new movie BIG FISH, poking fun at his interpretation of a Deep South accent. The Scottish actor stars alongside fellow Brits ALBERT FINNEY and HELENA BONHAM CARTER in the movie - the tale of a man's quest to learn more about his dying father - but McGregor has been singled out for criticism. Although the movie itself scored highly among US experts, the NEW YORKER's British critic ANTHONY LANE snipes, "There are some accents that should not be attempted by a Scotsman." >I still love "Mary Poppins" despite Dick Van Dyke's cocked-up cockney. >And Pacino's ludicrous accent in "Revolution" was the least of the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >What would be your nomination? I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean".  SignatureLouisa Essex, England, Europe > I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his > accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean". What sort of accent should a pirate in the Caribbean have? I thought the accent worked well, with the Antipodean twang giving the character a laid-back feel. >> I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his >> accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean". > >What sort of accent should a pirate in the Caribbean have? I thought the >accent worked well, with the Antipodean twang giving the character a >laid-back feel. Did he sound antipodean to you? He sounded like Mike Reid from Eastenders to me. SignatureLouisa Essex, England, Europe >>> I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his >>> accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Did he sound antipodean to you? He sounded like Mike Reid from Eastenders to >me. Probably many Pirates of the Caribbean were Eastenders before they were press-ganged. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England >>>> I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his >>>> accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean". [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Probably many Pirates of the Caribbean were Eastenders before they > were press-ganged. Apart from those in Coronation Street -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply >>>>> I think I'd have to nominate Johnny Depp again, this time for his >>>>> accent in "Pirates of the Caribbean". [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Apart from those in Coronation Street Ena Sharples would make your hair curl for dissing the Street. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England In article <brvhti$jn8$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Worst case scenario, the TV Series War and Peace spoken in English with a heavy Russian accents so thick sometimes it was hard to understand and very annoying. The episodes were really destroyed by this stupid idea. SignatureSecrecy Breeds Corruption. ap filted: >I still love "Mary Poppins" despite Dick Van Dyke's cocked-up cockney. >And Pacino's ludicrous accent in "Revolution" was the least of the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >What would be your nomination? Connery again, as a Russian submarine commander in "The Hunt For Red October".... Or as an Egyptian-cum-Spaniard in (of all things) "Highlander", playing opposite Belgian Scotsman Christopher Lambert....r > Connery again, as a Russian submarine commander in "The Hunt For Red > October".... More ludicrous than Connery as a Russian submarine commander is John Wayne as Genghis Khan. > > Connery again, as a Russian submarine commander in "The Hunt For Red > > October".... > > More ludicrous than Connery as a Russian submarine commander is John Wayne > as Genghis Khan. While you are at it, why do you accept that they are even speaking in English? Signature"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata." +-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous" the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack filted: >> More ludicrous than Connery as a Russian submarine commander is John Wayne >> as Genghis Khan. >> >While you are at it, why do you accept that they are even speaking in >English? Not everyone can be Mel Brooks...he arranged after the first scene of his remake of "To Be Or Not To Be" for an announcer to inform the audience: "Ladies and Gentlemen: in the interest of clarity and sanity, the rest of this movie will not be in Polish"....r > While you are at it, why do you accept that they are even speaking in > English? True, when Wayne says: "I feel this Tartar woman is for me, and my blood says, take her! There are moments for wisdom and moments when I listen to my blood; my blood says, take this Tartar woman!" he is speaking the language of (sanguine) love. Bill Bonde ( the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack ) <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote: > > > Connery again, as a Russian submarine commander in "The Hunt For Red > > > October".... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > While you are at it, why do you accept that they are even speaking in > English? Which are you talking about? "Hunt for Red October" is quite well known for showing the crew speaking Russian to each other -- and then they switch to English, so that you get that, altogether, it's a dramatic device to convey the idea that they are speaking Russian. So *that's* what you're supposed to "accept." Most dramatists don't even bother to account for why the actors speak a different language from what would be proper. I don't remember Shakespeare trying to account for the fact that the royal court of Denmark should be speaking in Danish. I gather that if Mel Gibson ever releases his epic, we'll experience hearing dialog in the authentic languages -- but will it be with *no* subtitles? SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > I gather that if Mel Gibson ever releases his epic, we'll experience > hearing dialog in the authentic languages -- but will it be with *no* > subtitles? That was Mel's original idea, but he apparently has relented... http://www.economist.com/diversions/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2281926 Latin today Roman rebound Dec 18th 2003 Mel Gibson, star-turned-director, announced that his new film "The Passion", about the last hours of Christ, would be made entirely in Latin and Aramaic. At first, the hero of "Thunderdome" and "Lethal Weapon" did not even want subtitles. When he realised that audiences needed to know, just roughly, what the characters were saying, he reluctantly backed down. >> I gather that if Mel Gibson ever releases his epic, we'll experience >> hearing dialog in the authentic languages -- but will it be with *no* [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > needed to know, just roughly, what the characters were > saying, he reluctantly backed down. I saw a clip in the paper today about the Pope having a private viewing of the film, and saying something like "That is the way it was". I wonder how he knows. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England > I saw a clip in the paper today about the Pope having a private viewing of > the film, and saying something like "That is the way it was". I wonder how > he knows. Haven't you heard? He's infallible. Or impotent or something. Oh, no. Wait. It couldn't be impotent: +++ The pope was walking in the garden of the Vatican one day when he was consumed with an overwhelming desire to... Um... Well... not to put too fine a point on it... to spank the papal monkey. At the moment of climax there was a sudden flash, and a paparazzo stepped out from behind a tree brandishing his camera. The pope immediately struck a deal with the photographer. They agreed on a price of $5,000,000 for the negatives. The photographer began to open up the camera to take the film out when the pope said, "At that price, why don't you just let me have the camera?" So the guy shrugged and handed over the camera... ...a couple of days later, the pope was happily taking pictures when a cardinal came up to him, and expressed his admiration for the pope's impressive new camera. "Yes. It is very sophisticated." "It looks very expensive, your Holiness. Did it cost a lot?" "Well, yes. I paid $5,000,000 for it" "Boy, somebody really saw you coming!" +++ I must mean omnipotent. >> I saw a clip in the paper today about the Pope having a private viewing of >> the film, and saying something like "That is the way it was". I wonder how [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >I must mean omnipotent. Yeah. Maybe I should start using smileys! (Nice joke, though.) Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England > Bill Bonde ( the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack ) > <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > device to convey the idea that they are speaking Russian. So *that's* > what you're supposed to "accept." Which really takes away the feeling that they are speaking Russian. Watch "Ronin". The Russians speak Russian to each other, they speak French to the French, etc. In "101 Reykjavik", we have Icelandic between people from Iceland, and English between other people and Icelanders. In "Cold Fever", a great movie, we have Japanese in the segments in Japan, and Icelandic and English in the Iceland portions. Clearly English is the lingua franca but it isn't the only language of the world. > Most dramatists don't even bother to account for why the actors speak a > different language from what would be proper. I don't remember > Shakespeare trying to account for the fact that the royal court of > Denmark should be speaking in Danish. It is kinda weird to have Werner Herzog's conquistadors in "Aguirre, the wrath of God" speaking in German but you'll at least notice that they are consistently speaking in German and when they run into natives, the natives speak a language that is different and unintelligible to the German speaking conquistadors. The flaw in many Hollywood movies, well, one flaw of many, is that they often try to do with 'accent' what should be done with language. When you are showing more than one group of people who would normally speak in different languages, don't make them all speak English especially not when each language group is speaking within the language speaking group. > I gather that if Mel Gibson ever releases his epic, we'll experience > hearing dialog in the authentic languages -- but will it be with *no* > subtitles? Without the subtitles, we will end up with a different experience, more the silent film experience. We'll see if they pronounce the 'c' in Latin always with the 'k' sound. Signature"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata." +-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous" In article <3FE379E6.295A6E5E@backpacker.com>, "Bill Bonde ( the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote: > The flaw in many Hollywood movies, well, one flaw of many, is that they often try to do with 'accent' what should > be done with language. When you are showing more than one group of > people who would normally speak in different languages, don't make them > all speak English especially not when each language group is speaking > within the language speaking group. You might get an argument from the people who make the movies with this "flaw." Namely, that American audiences stay away from dubbed and subtitled movies in droves. Unlike European audiences they aren't used to them, they don't like them and they don't spend money to see them. It costs huge amounts of money to get even medium-budget films onto screens, and the producers need to see a return on their investment. You may draw any conclusion you like from that, but it is a commercial reality that Hollywood producers have to live with (t's called show *business* for a reason. > ap filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Or as an Egyptian-cum-Spaniard in (of all things) "Highlander", > playing opposite Belgian Scotsman Christopher Lambert....r I really think Mr Canary should be exempt from these competitions. He doesn't actually *do* accents. He was supposed to be an Irish Cop in Untouchables, but he spoke as he normally speaks without any attempt at any kind of Irish accent. Ditto Highlander; there was no attempt at Spanish or Egyptian inflections. Red October was a special case. After beginning with subtitles, the film switched to the Russian crew speaking in English without Russian accents of any kind. The implication was that the audience had been permitted a Babelfish stuck in its collective ear. personally I approve of this. I found Schindler's List ultimately unwatchable because German characters who would have been talking to each other in German were forced to do ludicrous German accents. It's as if Shakespeare's Julius Caesar were performed with Latin accents (whatever *they* sound like - Isaac Newton could tell us if he were alive) or Romeo and Juliet with Italian inflections - 'But soft-a, what-a light-a from-a yonder window breaks-a'. (BTW, if anyone knows what accent Paul Sorvino was attempting in Baz Luhrman's version, I'd love to know.) But I digress. Back to Old Tom. When he got MGM to bankroll The Hill as a reward for his Bond contract, it was noticeable that his character, who was a Londoner in the novel, became a Scot while the novel's hardnut Glasgow Ned Jock McGrath was obliged to take on the Cockerney mantle for the film (though without changing his name). Let us bow down in praise of his Mulay Achmed Mohammed el-Raisuli the Magnificent, the Edinburgh Berber with the barbarian manners. But he's done English Kings, Greek Kings, American Scouts and Norwegian explorers, all without straining his larynx in the slightest. Kudos! -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > What would be your nomination? John Wayne as a Roman Centurion (can't remember the film). In fact, John Wayne as anything but a cowboy. Bob Martin > John Wayne as a Roman Centurion (can't remember the film). > > In fact, John Wayne as anything but a cowboy. Hilariously, JW turned down his 2nd screen acting job (which would have been as a cowboy) because he didn't want to get typecast as a cowboy. ..matthew >> What would be your nomination? > >John Wayne as a Roman Centurion (can't remember the film). > >In fact, John Wayne as anything but a cowboy. Tony Curtis as something in metal pants. > those days. I'd nominate Johnny Depp's accent in that film as the most > manneredly preposterous I've ever heard on film, closely followed by > Sean Connery's Irish accent in "The Untouchables"). > > What would be your nomination? Well Sean never does anything but 'Sean' (if my memory serves me correctly he just does his normal Scottish accent when playing the Irish American cop in The Untouchables'), so he could get quite a few nominations. The most absurd, that I can remember, would be 'The Hunt For Red October', in which he plays a Lithuanian Soviet submariner with a Scottish accent. Other terrible accents include Keanu Reeves in Dracula, Cristopher Lambert in Highlander, and Kevin Costner in that Robin Hood movie. On the flip side Gwyneth Paltrow's English accent in both Emma and Shakespeare In Love is excellent. Even better is Renee Zellweger's home counties (about five of the counties in close proximity to London) accent in Bridget Jones's Diary. In preparation for the role, it was arranged for Renee to spend two weeks working at a London publishers, supposedly on 'work experience'. She pretended to be an English girl called Bridget and no one twigged. Going the other way across the pond, Emma Thompson was highly plausible as 'Hillary Clinton' in Primary Colors. My nomination as the worst is: Keanu Reeves in Dracula. (I've never seen Mary Poppins.) ..matthew > Going the other way across the pond, Emma Thompson was > highly plausible as 'Hillary Clinton' in Primary Colors. I didn't think so -- to me her accent sounded fake (even apart from the fact that she wasn't trying to do a Northern Cities Vowel Shift Chicauga accent like the real Hillary has). But what's his name, the guy who played Joe Klein, the main character, he's a British guy but I thought his accent was completely authentic and appropriate to the character's age and background. John Travolta's accent as Bill Clinton was slike so we'idly unauthentic too. R F filted: >> Going the other way across the pond, Emma Thompson was >> highly plausible as 'Hillary Clinton' in Primary Colors. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >accent was completely authentic and appropriate to the character's age >and background. Best British actor doing an American accent?...hands down, Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"...r > R F filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Best British actor doing an American accent?...hands down, Bob > Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"...r Bob's done it a few times. Sadly, one of the triumphs came inappropriately when playing Owney Madden in Cotton Club and Owney was a true blue born and bred Brit who still had his Wigan accent long after he accepted Lucky Luciano's suggestion to retire from active Mobstering. A biographer reported that Madden still had the accent in the 60s, greeting him at the Station with 'Ay up then'. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply John Dean filted: >> Best British actor doing an American accent?...hands down, Bob >> Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"...r [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >that Madden still had the accent in the 60s, greeting him at the Station >with 'Ay up then'. Bonus points to Alan Cumming, Scot, for playing American, English (revealed at the ending as faked), and German in the first three films I spotted him in....r > John Dean filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the ending as faked), and German in the first three films I spotted him > in....r Anoter bonus point to Anthony Lapaglia, an Australian, for successfully passing himself off as American and British. >> John Dean filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Anoter bonus point to Anthony Lapaglia, an Australian, for > successfully passing himself off as American and British. I'd be interested to know where he passed himself off as British. BTW, I know of *no* British people who thought his appearance in 'Frasier' constitutes such passing off. (Even Jane Leeves doesn't sound English in that show and she was born & brought up here). David Hyde Pierce and Kelsey Grammer, however, sound more English than the Queen. His brother Jonathan did what sounded to me like a good American accent in 'Seven Days', the TV series. The Mandylor brothers have a similarly good track record of converting their native Strine to Yankee dollar-earners. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > Anoter bonus point to Anthony Lapaglia, an Australian, for > > successfully passing himself off as American and British. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that show and she was born & brought up here). David Hyde Pierce and Kelsey > Grammer, however, sound more English than the Queen. They sound very stagey and intentionally so, but I wouldn't say they sound 'English'. > His brother Jonathan did what sounded to me like a good American accent in > 'Seven Days', the TV series. Both brothers are on current television series (both on CBS). On _Without A Trace_, which has quite a few non-AmE actors playing Americans, Anthony does a decent job, but he gets certain subtle things wrong (often having to do with the "caught" vowel) -- I've noticed that BrE and AusE actors doing American accents often slip up in that way (often it seems to have to do with the length of the vowel). Still, I think overall he's reasonably convincing as an American, perhaps because he doesn't look particularly Hiberno-Britic[TM] (unlike, say, Simon Baker of CBS's _The Guardian_, who looks screamingly non-Leftpondian, though it may have something to do with the character he's playing, a recovering drug addict with problems expressing emotion). On _The District_, Jonathan does a better AmE accent, I think. In neither case is it clear what sort of accent they're trying to do, though I think they might be aiming at hinting at some sort of New York Metropolitan. You know who does a *really* convincing New York-specific AmE accent is Marianne Jean-Baptiste on _Without A Trace_. She must have some super groovy dialect coach. >You know who does a *really* convincing New York-specific AmE accent is >Marianne Jean-Baptiste on _Without A Trace_. She must have some super >groovy dialect coach. Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I would like to put on the record that Anthony Hopkins's Nixon accent was considerably less than groovy. Make a biopic about the American politician with probably the most instantly identifiable voice since Kennedy and they hire a Brit? It made about as much sense as it would for a British production company to get Rip Torn to do Harold Wilson. However, definitely the right man for the job -- Joe Queenan -- beat us too it a decade or so ago, with a wonderful piece on Bad Movie Accents. I'll see if I can dig it out. (Meanwhile, I do remember one that awarded a special mention: Sir Larry Olivi-Oy-Vey in *The Jazz Singer*.) -- Ross Howard >beat us too it Wow. I do "it's", "their" and "you're" on demand (and even when nobody asks), but this could be a new string to my bow. -- Ross Howard > You know who does a *really* convincing New York-specific AmE accent > is Marianne Jean-Baptiste on _Without A Trace_. She must have some > super groovy dialect coach. Haven't seen her since 'Secrets and Lies'. Is she settled in Ultrapondia now? We don't get 'Without a Trace', leastways not on the free channels. Is there really a character called Samantha Spade? -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > You know who does a *really* convincing New York-specific AmE accent > > is Marianne Jean-Baptiste on _Without A Trace_. She must have some > > super groovy dialect coach. > > Haven't seen her since 'Secrets and Lies'. Is she settled in Ultrapondia > now? Apparently her home is in London (Largest Conurbation in the United Kingdom). > We don't get 'Without a Trace', leastways not on the free channels. Is there > really a character called Samantha Spade? Yup, she's played by an AusE actress, Poppy Montgomery. (Is "Poppy" a common chick's name in Australia?) Her AmE accent is pretty good, actually. I wasn't bothered in the slightest by Costner's accent in "Robin Hood" because what on earth could be the right accent for that part? First of all, Robin was a legend not a real historical figure. Second, to the extent that the origins of the legend can be traced they seem to date from the high middle ages, when Enflish people would have spoken a form of Middle English unintelligible to our modern ears. As far as I'm concerned, Robin Hood, like Father Christmas, can talk in whatever accent he likes. Peasemarch. > As far as I'm concerned, Robin Hood, like Father Christmas, can talk in > whatever accent he likes. I'm not sure about Santa's accent, since it is always muffled by whiskers. The main thing, I remember from when I was a little boy, is that his breath should smell of whisky. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >> As far as I'm concerned, Robin Hood, like Father Christmas, can talk in >> whatever accent he likes. > >I'm not sure about Santa's accent, since it is always muffled by >whiskers. The main thing, I remember from when I was a little boy, is >that his breath should smell of whisky. Not when there was a Baptist under those whiskers...the smell I remember (and C C Moore seems to concur) was pipe tobacco....r > I'd be interested to know where he passed himself off as British. BTW, I > know of *no* British people who thought his appearance in 'Frasier' > constitutes such passing off. (Even Jane Leeves doesn't sound English in > that show and she was born & brought up here). David Hyde Pierce and Kelsey > Grammer, however, sound more English than the Queen. I just did a quick check on IMDB and it seems the majority of his work has been playing American characters. I agree that his accent in 'Frasier' isn't the real thing, but I find it acceptable as a pastiche if nothing else. The bigger question is this: If his character grew up under the same roof as Jane Leeves's character, how did they end up with such different regional accents? >> I'd be interested to know where he passed himself off as British. >> BTW, I know of *no* British people who thought his appearance in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > under the same roof as Jane Leeves's character, how did they end up > with such different regional accents? You could ask the same of the Attenborough brothers. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > I'd be interested to know where he passed himself off as British. > BTW, I know of *no* British people who thought his appearance in > 'Frasier' constitutes such passing off. (Even Jane Leeves doesn't > sound English in that show and she was born & brought up here). Seriously? You don't think she sounds American, do you? If you had to classify her accent, how would you do so? Another one that surprised me on this group years ago was that you natives think Alistair Cooke sounds American. On this side of the pond, when Cooke was introducing installments of _Masterpiece Theatre_, we assumed the material was artistic and profound precisely because he was talking about it with an English accent. > David Hyde Pierce and Kelsey Grammer, however, sound more English > than the Queen. Again, seriously? I mean, that's believable; but it's also believable that you're kidding. Of course, once you've seen Sideshow Bob on The Simpsons, you'll never here Kelsey Grammer the same way again. I've often thought it would be enjoyable to film a version of _My Fair Lady_ with Kelsey Grammer as Prof. Higgins, David Hyde Pierce as Freddy Eynsford Hill, Jane Leeves as Eliza, and John Mahoney as Alfred Doolittle. Perhaps a dream sequence on _Frasier_ if they insist on doing another season.... SignatureOpus the Penguin (that's my real email addy) You snipped my sig! >> I'd be interested to know where he passed himself off as British. >> BTW, I know of *no* British people who thought his appearance in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Seriously? You don't think she sounds American, do you? If you had to > classify her accent, how would you do so? I certainly don't think she sounds American. But she doesn't sound English either. I couldn't begin to classify her accent except by omission - a failed attempt to portray some accent from the Northern part of England. > Another one that surprised me on this group years ago was that you > natives think Alistair Cooke sounds American. On this side of the > pond, when Cooke was introducing installments of _Masterpiece > Theatre_, we assumed the material was artistic and profound precisely > because he was talking about it with an English accent. He sounds more American than English to us now. It's that patrician American accent that you hear less and less - shades of the 400 club, Daughters of the Mayflower, Katie Hepburn. When they do the History shows about Kennedy & LBJ, a couple old guys always pop up - I can never remember their names but they were unshowy lynchpins of the administration, trace their ancestry (I bet) back to the Roanoke Colony and sound a lot like Alistair. >> David Hyde Pierce and Kelsey Grammer, however, sound more English >> than the Queen. > > Again, seriously? I mean, that's believable; but it's also believable > that you're kidding. Of course, once you've seen Sideshow Bob on The > Simpsons, you'll never here Kelsey Grammer the same way again. Kidding un peu. But I'm sure they deliberately give their characters an Anglicised twist to point up the snobbery. > I've often thought it would be enjoyable to film a version of _My Fair > Lady_ with Kelsey Grammer as Prof. Higgins, David Hyde Pierce as > Freddy Eynsford Hill, Jane Leeves as Eliza, and John Mahoney as Alfred > Doolittle. Perhaps a dream sequence on _Frasier_ if they insist on > doing another season.... Why not. John Mahoney was born and spent his teenage years a few miles from me so I don't know how his East End is. Bulldog as the Colonel? What *I'd* like to see is The Importance of Being Earnest with Harriet Sansom Harris as Bebe as Lady Bracknell. Not to mention the Perry Gilpin spinoff 'The Continuing Story of O' -- John 'Northern Lights' Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > Another one that surprised me on this group years ago was that you > > natives think Alistair Cooke sounds American. On this side of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > they were unshowy lynchpins of the administration, trace their ancestry (I > bet) back to the Roanoke Colony and sound a lot like Alistair. Perhaps the Bundy brothers, McGeorge and William? They had the right pedigree (from an old Boston family, attended Groton, Yale, Harvard). The 1987 documentary "American Tongues" has an interview with a couple of remarkably British-sounding "Boston Brahmins": http://www.cnam.com/downloads/amt_ts.html BRAHMIN #1: I've been here for about 350 years. My family came over with the first load of bricks. BRAHMIN #2: I consider myself speaking the Brahmin dialect of Boston. But the word Brahmin is a very difficult word to define and it wasn't, in fact, invented by, until Oliver Wendell Holmes. BRAHMIN #1: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Do you think there are many people in Boston who speak like you two gentlemen? BRAHMIN #2: We're a dwindling... We're a declining group, but I think there may be as many as 1000. Out of 600,000. I often wonder... > What *I'd* like to see is The Importance of Being Earnest with > Harriet Sansom Harris as Bebe as Lady Bracknell. A marvelous idea! > Not to mention the Perry Gilpin spinoff 'The Continuing Story of > O' And you were so close to not getting coal in your stocking this year. I'd like to see her as the girl who cain't say "no" in Oklahoma! (Or California, whatever.) Back to _My Fair Lady_ and _Frasier_, Edward Hibbert, who plays Gil Chesterton, would make a delightful Zoltan Kaparthy. SignatureOpus the Penguin (that's my real email addy) "It's nice that you can use made up data to support your argument." - David J. Martin > R F filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Best British actor doing an American accent?...hands down, Bob Hoskins in > "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"...r Second that. I had no idea Mr Hoskins was a Brit until I saw him in a subsequent interview. SignatureGary G. Taylor * Rialto, CA gary at donavan dot org / http:// geetee dot donavan dot org "The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." --Harlan Ellison > My nomination as the worst is: Keanu Reeves in Dracula. (I've never seen > Mary Poppins.) I would nominate Keanu Reeves' worst accent being in "Little Buddha", when he plays Siddartha > > My nomination as the worst is: Keanu Reeves in Dracula. (I've never seen > > Mary Poppins.) > > I would nominate Keanu Reeves' worst accent being in "Little Buddha", > when he plays Siddartha Knock knock Who's there? Siddartha Siddartha who? Siddartha in the rain and you'll catch your death of cold MattStan <MattStan@_NoThanksToJunk_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message > On the flip side Gwyneth Paltrow's English accent in both Emma and > Shakespeare In Love is excellent. Even better is Renee Zellweger's home [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > no one twigged. Going the other way across the pond, Emma Thompson was > highly plausible as 'Hillary Clinton' in Primary Colors. Paltrow and Zellweger were the very two that I was going to applaud. I couldn't tell that they were American. I've just remembered Meryl Streep's Danish accent in "Out of Africa". I don't really know what a Danish accent sounds like, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't sound like the one Meryl concocted for that film.. Peasemarch. > My nomination as the worst is: Keanu Reeves in Dracula. (I've never seen > Mary Poppins.) Has no one seen Colin Firth in "Phone Booth"? I think he was trying play a New Yorker. That's my nomination for the worst. > Has no one seen Colin Firth in "Phone Booth"? I think he was trying > play a New Yorker. That's my nomination for the worst. You mean Colin Farrell, right? Alice. Alice <alice_henry@eudoramail.com> wrote in message ... > > Has no one seen Colin Firth in "Phone Booth"? I think he was trying > > play a New Yorker. That's my nomination for the worst. > > You mean Colin Farrell, right? Thanks Alice. I was trying to picture Colin Farrell in "Phone Booth", lol. My nomination for a good accent is Frances O'Connor in "AI". She is British playing an American. Gwyneth Paltrow was good in "Sliding Doors". I thought that Renée Zellwegger was good in "Bridget Jones", but I am told that most people don't speak "posh" in Britain except for radio announcers and TV personalities and those schooled in the Oxbridge system. Is her accent accurate for a London woman of her age and profession? Anybody know? Larry Larry G <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message ... > Thanks Alice. I was trying to picture Colin Farrell in "Phone Booth", lol. I meant FIRTH. Lord, lol. Larry [ snip, some] > Thanks Alice. I was trying to picture Colin Farrell in "Phone Booth", lol. > My nomination for a good accent is Frances O'Connor in "AI". She is British [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and TV personalities and those schooled in the Oxbridge system. Is her > accent accurate for a London woman of her age and profession? Anybody know? - in Bridget Jones? According to the lore, uninformed cast members were astonished during the wrap-party, after the end of shooting, when she went back to speaking American. I think I saw an interview with Hugh Grant where he related that anecdote, so unless he was being flattering.... but that would not explain why they are making the sequel. SignatureRich Ulrich, wpilib@pitt.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." >I >> thought that Renée Zellwegger was good in "Bridget Jones", but I am told [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >after the end of shooting, when she went back >to speaking American. Her accent was very good, but just a little too careful. If I met a woman who spoke like that I would think that she was either drunk or had had elocution lessons. SignatureLouisa Essex, England, Europe >>- in Bridget Jones? According to the lore, uninformed >>cast members were astonished during the wrap-party, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a woman who spoke like that I would think that she was either > drunk or had had elocution lessons. I would assume that she'd been born Hungarian. SignatureOpus the Penguin (that's my real email addy) And not only Hungarian, but of royal blood. >>I >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > spoke like that I would think that she was either drunk or had had elocution > lessons. Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech last night - too tired and emotional to grab the remote. It seemed to me her accent has changed a lot. She certainly did not pronounce 'year' and 'yer' - more like 'yee-ah'. In fact, the only features of her accent I found remarkable at all were the tightness of her 'ee' sounds and even more so in the diphthong 'ej' (eg pain). I suppose her 'o' vowel and 'ow/ou' diphthong are very different from mine, but about the same as normal, posh British speech, whereas, in the early years, I found her accent much more distinctive. SignatureRob Bannister > Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech last > night - too tired and emotional to grab the remote. It seemed to me her [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > normal, posh British speech, whereas, in the early years, I found her > accent much more distinctive. A different kind of yeah: I noticed she said "yeah" instead of "yes" in informal conversation with one of the soldiers. I don't suppose it was unintentional when she said it, nor coincidental that it was included in the broadcast. > > Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech [...] > A different kind of yeah: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't suppose it was unintentional when she said it, nor coincidental > that it was included in the broadcast. I have long maintained that the English language has, and has perhaps pretty well always had, at least five non-local affirmative words. Viz., *aye*, *ah*, *yes*, *yea* (rhyming with "hay"), and *ya*. The last, being (mistakenly, I suggest) regarded as a corruption of *yes*, has tended to enjoy low status even though very common on the lips of people of high social class. In considering *yeah*, it's worth noting that one way of saying "yes" in Welsh is *ie*. This I take, unless I'm corrected, to be an adoption from an earlier variety of English rather than a contraction of a native word. Mike. Mike Lyle filted: >In considering *yeah*, it's worth noting that one way of saying "yes" >in Welsh is *ie*. This I take, unless I'm corrected, to be an adoption >from an earlier variety of English rather than a contraction of a >native word. One way of saying "no" in Japanese is "iie", which can easily be misheard by an English-speaking ear (?) as "yeah", leading to much potential for confusion...throw in "hai" (sounds like a greeting in "English") for yes, "kau" for "to buy" and you have the beginnings of a Pacific Rim recasting of Abbott and Costello....r >One way of saying "no" in Japanese is "iie", which can easily be misheard by an >English-speaking ear (?) as "yeah", leading to much potential for >confusion...throw in "hai" (sounds like a greeting in "English") for yes, "kau" >for "to buy" and you have the beginnings of a Pacific Rim recasting of Abbott >and Costello....r On a plane trip from Athens to Sofia I overheard a couple of Bulgarians wondering about the opposite meanings of "ne", which in Bulgarian means "no" and in Greek means "yes". Steve Hayes hayesmstw@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm >>One way of saying "no" in Japanese is "iie", which can easily be misheard by an >>English-speaking ear (?) as "yeah", leading to much potential for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > wondering about the opposite meanings of "ne", which in Bulgarian means "no" > and in Greek means "yes". Don't forget that Greeks shake their heads in a (to us) negative way when saying 'yes'. SignatureRob Bannister > > > Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech [...] > > A different kind of yeah: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > from an earlier variety of English rather than a contraction of a > native word. Actually, I think I may be wrong to suggest that *aye* and *ah* are different words: perhaps they are just variant pronunciations. Mike. >>> I >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > about the same as normal, posh British speech, whereas, in the early > years, I found her accent much more distinctive. It has been left to Sydney's Macquarie University to investigate this: http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/queen.htm "We conclude that the Queen no longer speaks the Queen's English of the 1950s, although the vowels of the 1980s Christmas message are still clearly set apart from those of an SSB accent." -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply >Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech last >night - too tired and emotional to grab the remote. It seemed to me her [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >normal, posh British speech, whereas, in the early years, I found her >accent much more distinctive. I didn't hear the Queen's speech, but I did hear a "sound bite" of her comments. I seldom hear the recordings of her speech. I was struck by how much different her accent is from the other British accents that I hear. It's almost like there is a Royal inflection as well as a Royal wave. I suppose it's quite inappropriate to use "bite" in a posting about the Queen at the present time. She's mourning a Corgi. "Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> wrote... > Talking of posh accents, I accidentally heard the Queen's Speech last > night - too tired and emotional to grab the remote. It seemed to me > her accent has changed a lot. She certainly did not pronounce 'year' > and 'yer' - more like 'yee-ah'. [...] I don't regard "yer" for "year" as a posh marker. It seems to be associated with Welsh folk, and it can be heard from the likes of John Humphrys and Dr Kim Howells, to take the most recent examples I've noticed. Matti > The thread about Vernon God Little made me think about the dodgy > British or early American accents I've heard in films. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Peasemarch. Was it "King of Kings" where John wayne played Pontius Pilate and delivered the "I wash my hands of your blood" as if he were in a western? Personally, my favourites are those spy movies, where the duble agent is able to intone English just as if he were a native speaker, only to slip into his Russian/German whatever accent when revealed as a double agent. Chrissy > Personally, my favourites are those spy movies, where the duble agent > is able to intone English just as if he were a native speaker, only to > slip into his Russian/German whatever accent when revealed as a double > agent. Similarly, in _Die Hard_ the British Alan Rickman plays a German burglar/terrorist with a German accent, who does a perfect American accent when posing as a hostage. -Aaron J. Dinkin Dr. Whom |
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