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Discussion Groups / English Usage / August 2007From "bothan" or "bothag" to "bothy"
A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, "bothies:" http://tinyurl.com/2czql7 "...In so many of the landscapes I had reached on my journeys, I had found testimonies to the affection they inspired. Poems tacked up on the walls of *bothies;* benches set on lakesides, cliff-tops or low hill passes, commemorating the favourite viewpoint of someone now dead; a graffito cut into the bark of an oak...." This word was unfamiliar to me, so I consulted OED2 and found: bothy, bothie Sc. .. Also 8 bothay. [Of uncertain history: Irish and Gaelic have both 'hut' (dim. bothan), and Gael. has dim. bothag; but as the th in Gael. has been mute for many centuries, it is not easy to see how these could have given bothy. Cf. booth.] 1. A hut or cottage; spec. a building consisting of one room in which the unmarried men servants on a farm are lodged together, or in which masons, quarrymen, etc. lodge together. (Bothies of women have also been recently tried, as a substitute for the 'Bondage' system.) [1570-87 Holinshed Scot. Chron. (1806) I. 19 Arran otherwise called Botha after St. Brandons time who dwelled there in a little cottage which (as all other the like were in those daies) was called Botha.] 1771 Pennant Tours Scotl. (1790) 124 A Sheelin or Bothay, a cottage made of turf. 1854 H. Miller Sch. & Schm. ix. (1857) 174 The sort of life that is spent in bothies and barracks. 1876 Grant Burgh Sch. Scot. ii. xv. 511 note, The children came..to attend school in a small bothy. To see if the word was common, I checked Google-News and got 18 hits, half of which referred to the "Bothy Band." The other hits suggest that the word is fairly well-known in all of the UK. As the only prior reference here at aue was an allusion by Tony Cooper to the Bothy Band, I'm wondering if the word is worth some discussion - should we be bothered with "bothy?" The OED says the evolution from "bothan" or "bothag" is difficult to understand. Is it? Wouldn't the current sense of the word be primarily as a reference to a one-room cottage? (Would that be different, though, in Scotland?) -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, > "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > -- > Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego Dick Francis writes about one in his novel "To the Hilt" Jim Hawkins >> Should we be bothered with "bothy?" The OED says the evolution from >> "bothan" or "bothag" is difficult to understand. Is it? Wouldn't the >> current sense of the word be primarily as a reference to a one-room >> cottage? (Would that be different, though, in Scotland?) > > Dick Francis writes about one in his novel "To the Hilt" It's certainly not unknown in BrE, though hardly common. I associate it with Scotland, where AFAIK it has the "small cottage" use - the only Bothy I know is in fact such a building. Regards Jonathan >>> Should we be bothered with "bothy?" The OED says the evolution from >>> "bothan" or "bothag" is difficult to understand. Is it? Wouldn't the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Scotland, where AFAIK it has the "small cottage" use - the only Bothy I know >is in fact such a building. Bothies are known among climbers and hill-walkers. http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/ Most MBA bothies are stone built buildings with a slate or corrugated-iron roof but a wide variety of materials are used. Our smallest building is the size of a garden shed and the largest are two storey cottages with 6 or 7 rooms. MBA maintained bothies should all be reasonably wind and watertight and have somewhere dry to sleep. Quite a few bothies have sleeping-platforms - raised areas of floor which get you away from the traffic and the cold air and draughts which are at floor level. The usual place to sleep though, is on the wood or concrete floors - so come prepared with at least a sleeping-bag and a sleeping mat and a polythene sheet to lay down first. Very few beds remain long in bothies - they take up too much room! Blankets and mattresses are rarely if ever provided. Although many bothies no longer have a sustainable source of fuel nearby. they generally have a fireplace or a stove. You will need to carry fuel in, or if wood has been left by a previous visitor, the tradition is that you gather more to replace what you burn. In some cases peat is the only local fuel, and you can try your hand at cutting and stacking peats for next season. The difficulty of maintaining services in remote locations means that very few bothies have piped water, but there is nearly always a nearby spring or burn. Similarly we do not provide fuel - you will need candles or a paraffin lamp for your light and a stove to cook on. Some folk choose to cook on an open fire a messy business which requires toleration by the shivering hordes who can't get near the fire! Its probably best to bring a stove. The majority of bothies have no toilet facilities. The best toilet procedure while staying at a bothy is to go a good distance from the building and dig a hole well away from the water course. A spade is usually provided for this purpose. Finally, as there is no refuse collection service at any of our bothies, you should bring a suitable polythene bag for carrying out your rubbish. http://www.cairngormbothynetwork.com/ PLEASE NOTE: this site is undergoing refurbishment and is closed in the meantime. Welcome to the Cairngorm Bothy Network web site. The aim of this site is to bring together all of those who either use, maintain or own the bothies in the North East of Scotland and provide an opportunity to communicate on a dedicated web site. Many folk who use the bothies would be delighted to help out if only they knew who to contact. So feel free to add your comments to the notice board and have your say. No foul language or abuse as you can do that round the bothy fire at night not here! If you have a work party coming up or want to make a contribution to a bothy this site aims to provide you with the platform to make contact with the relevant folk.  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:14:07 +0100, "Jonathan Morton" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bothies are known among climbers and hill-walkers. Also linked etymologically to "booth". See: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bothy and http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=Booth -- WH "Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote : >>"Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote : >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > Bothies are known among climbers and hill-walkers. Yes ... although only a very occasional hill-walker, I did live and work in Aberdeen years ago, and have been familiar with the word since. It also makes regular appearances on "Countdown". Philip Eden [snip] > The majority of bothies have no toilet facilities. The best > toilet procedure while staying at a bothy is to go a good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > out your rubbish. > [snip] Thanks. For some reason, Google Groups isn't showing my initial post in this thread, even though the replies do have the text. I had said that the current sense would likely be a one-room cottage, but your reply indicates that such a definition is too restrictive. How about, "Usually a cottage without a wc but with a spade?" -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >reply indicates that such a definition is too restrictive. How about, >"Usually a cottage without a wc but with a spade?" That seems to capture one aspect of a bothy. I have no personal experience of bothies, but ir seems that the word "bothy" when used by hill-walkers and climbers refers to a building with a particular very basic function -- providing overnight shelter from the weather. The key amenities are four walls and a roof. As you discovered from OED2 this was not the original purpose of a bothy. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >> [snip] > > How about, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with a particular very basic function -- providing overnight shelter > from the weather. The key amenities are four walls and a roof. [snip] Do you think bothies are maintained at public expense, through county or national government? Or is this noblesse oblige, the large estate owners footing the (roof) bill? -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >> >> [snip] >> > How about, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >or national government? Or is this noblesse oblige, the large estate >owners footing the (roof) bill? I've seen no hint of government involvement. There are open-to-all-comers bothies maintained by volunteer organisations scuh as the MBA: http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/ The Mountain Bothies Association is a charity which looks after about 100 shelters in some of the remoter parts of the UK. We welcome new members among hill walkers, climbers or long distance cyclists who use bothies and want to join in our extensive repair and maintenance programme. Our newsletter to members carries details of work parties which might, over a weekend, repair windows and loose door hinges or, over a week or so, might construct a new roof and floor and create a new bothy out of a near ruin. Most of the MBA bothies are in Scotland with others in the north of England and Wales. They belong to the landowners who allow us to maintain them for use by those of us who love to roam, and respect the great outdoors. There is also at least one locked bothy such as that belonging to the Edinburgh University Mountaineering Club: http://eumc.eusu.ed.ac.uk/bothy.htm Not many university clubs can boast a bothy in the north-west Highlands. Situated at the foot of the Five Sisters of Kintail the bothy is based in the heart of an excellent walking area. We maintain Glen Lichd house as a locked bothy (so technically it is not a bothy at all!), and hire it out to other clubs and individuals as well as members of the club itself. Inside the place is quite well appointed with gas cookers and lights, fireplaces, and a good sleeping area upstairs. The EUMC has leased the property from the National Trust for Scotland[1] since the 1960s; it was initially funded as a memorial to two students. Currently we rent it to other mountaineering clubs and individuals; however EUMC members have priority. [1] The National Trust for Scotalnd is a conservation charity: http://www.nts.org.uk/About/ SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> [snip] >>> How about, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > or national government? Or is this noblesse oblige, the large estate > owners footing the (roof) bill? Ownership varies; but there's a lot of info at the website already quoted: http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/ I'm sure TV told me of a reverse process: mountain huts being demolished because the inexpert think they're safe places to spend the night. British mountains are very small, but they're still mountains, and dangerous. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Do you think bothies are maintained at public expense, through county >> or national government? Or is this noblesse oblige, the large estate [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the night. British mountains are very small, but they're still > mountains, and dangerous. Here, for anyone who is interested, is a link to some antipodean equivalents, simply called huts. http://www.kosciuskohuts.org.au/thehuts.html Some are maintained by National Parks staff, others are adopted by various skiing, hiking and 4WD clubs. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >I have no personal experience of bothies, but ir seems that the word >"bothy" when used by hill-walkers and climbers refers to a building >with a particular very basic function -- providing overnight shelter >from the weather. The key amenities are four walls and a roof. Add a fireplace to the key amenities. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > reply indicates that such a definition is too restrictive. How about, > "Usually a cottage without a wc but with a spade?" The only bothy I have slept in (and was very glad to find) was in the Cairngorms. There was no spade, but there were bunk beds and a supply of food which we replenished. SignatureRob Bannister On Aug 25, 8:14 pm, "Jonathan Morton" <jonat...@jonathanmortonbutignorethisbit.co.uk> wrote: > >> Should we be bothered with "bothy?" The OED says the evolution from > >> "bothan" or "bothag" is difficult to understand. Is it? Wouldn't the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Scotland, where AFAIK it has the "small cottage" use - the only Bothy I know > is in fact such a building. My cousin used to live in a house in Cheltenham called "The Bothy". I assumed that the name was ironic, since it was pretty substantial. Will. >On Aug 25, 8:14 pm, "Jonathan Morton" ><jonat...@jonathanmortonbutignorethisbit.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Will. The single under gardeners at the big country estates were housed in bothies. > A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, > "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Gael. has been mute for many centuries, it is not easy to see how > these could have given bothy. Cf. booth.] [...] [...] > The OED says the > evolution from "bothan" or "bothag" is difficult to understand. Is > it? [...] Maybe the pronunciation of "th" as [T] is a Scots English spelling-pronunciation. Some names like the Irish "McGrath" are pronounced with either the mute or the English "th", [m@'grA] or [m@'gr&T]. On 25 Aug 2007, tinwhistler wrote > A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, > "bothies:" > http://tinyurl.com/2czql7 -snip- > To see if the word was common, I checked Google-News and got 18 > hits, half of which referred to the "Bothy Band." The other > hits suggest that the word is fairly well-known in all of the > UK. Entirely unremarkable when dealing with large landed estates, where the gardens invariably have a range of functional buildings -- potting sheds, bothies, glasshouses, etc. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, > "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Bothy Band, I'm wondering if the word is worth some discussion - > should we be bothered with "bothy?" The word is well known in folk music circles. The "bothy ballad" has been a staple of singers for a long time. An introduction is available at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bothy_ballad SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, >> "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bothy_ballad The Bothy Band took their name from a photograph taken in the 1890s of a group of Irish musicians. It was titled "A bothy band" and was evidently of musicians who played sessions for migrant Irish laborers who worked in England and Scotland and were housed in stone huts, or "bothies". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, >>> "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > who worked in England and Scotland and were housed in stone huts, or > "bothies". I have a strong, but perhaps false, impression that a bothy can also be a shebeen, in the sense of an illicit drinking-den. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> A current news article from the _Telegraph_ has a Scots-word, >>>> "bothies:" [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >I have a strong, but perhaps false, impression that a bothy can also be >a shebeen, in the sense of an illicit drinking-den. I don't think a bothy *is* a shebeen, but a bothy could *be* a shabeen. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL |
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