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Discussion Groups / English Usage / September 2007Yet another AmE- BrE "dictionary"
I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so off the mark. I'll leave the BrE speakers to comment on the following selection of titbits: OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the last "O" either). AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. BANJO n. 1. A garage sale where children's clothes and toys may be found. Note: Only much later did we discover this name is simply a composite of the ladies' names who run the BANJO. It is not a term to be commonly understood by those people outside Colden Common, HANTS. BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have this connotation. BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. BIFFER is the brand name shown on big DUSTBINS. BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. The English love BLACKBIRDS. When N.A.S.A. sprayed blackbirds with detergent, some English bird lovers nearly had apoplexy due to their confusion with BLACKBIRDS. The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their suitability for eating (now highly illegal). BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: BRANSTON n. 1. Pickle. Also known as a BRANNIE pickle. BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System (this is not available in the United States). This following quote from the Hursley Lab Telephone directory will make this term perfectly clear. "If the extension you require is busy, you may attract the user's attention by initiating the CAMP-ON procedure. *Dial 6, you will now hear the CAMP-ON tone briefly. You may wait for your party to answer your request (as in "A" below) or you can hang up, in which case you will be rung back and connected to your party when it is free (as in "B"). Note. If you receive or make a call after initiating this request the CAMP-ON request will be cancelled. "Accept CAMP-ON. When you hear the CAMP-ON tone, you may respond by one of the following: "A. Ask your existing party to hold, then *dial 6; you will be connected to the second caller privately while your original call is held. To return to the first call *dial 4. "B. Hang up after completion of the original call, in which case your phone will ring and be connected automatically to the person trying to contact you." CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH tonight". CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. COMBS n. 1. Long-john underwear. The word comes from COMBINATIONS. CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. DOWNS n. 1. Hills. DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain seaweed. FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this knowledge you will not be surprised to learn that SEVNIGHT is also used in English and means ... (guess). GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once made mainly from meat. OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. PULL UP A BOLLARD phrase. 1. A friendly invitation to sit down. This phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program in the 1950s. QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. To recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular point". SPLASH n. 1. A small stream which would likely not have a bridge, but people would simple drive through (i.e. splash through). As in, "Wilson's B&B is on the corner after the SPLASH." SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men are all talking about SPORT". STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. This is a term used by English bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. TOMMY BAR n. 1. Crow bar. A straight bar used to lever something. Mike M mikmooney@googlemail.com had it ... > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > last "O" either). I believe I've heard that, in inner-city Manchester 25 years ago. ... > CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System > (this is not available in the United States). This following quote > from the Hursley Lab Telephone directory will make this term perfectly > clear. snipped, but the term is correct. I doubt it's known by people other than nerds like me though. > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > tonight". [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program > in the 1950s. That second sentence is true, but I don't think it entered the language.  SignatureDavid ===== >> OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the >> last "O" either). > > I believe I've heard that, in inner-city Manchester 25 years ago. Adding "o" to the first syllable of a word and chopping off the rest is a common enough style of abbreviation. For example, "oppo" is Royal Navy slang for "friend" derived from "opposite number" (not opponent) >> CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System >> (this is not available in the United States). This following quote [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > snipped, but the term is correct. I doubt it's known by people other > than nerds like me though. And me. >> CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. Chipolata: A small sausage shaped like a wiener but better tasting. M&S used to sell them. >> PULL UP A BOLLARD phrase. 1. A friendly invitation to sit down. This >> phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program >> in the 1950s. > > That second sentence is true, but I don't think it entered the > language. There is also "Pull up a sock" and I thought "that" was from The Goon Show. >>> OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the >>> last "O" either). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a common enough style of abbreviation. For example, "oppo" is Royal Navy > slang for "friend" derived from "opposite number" (not opponent) I have never heard "offo" but I have often heard "offy", as in "I'm off down the offy - want anything?" SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [...] >> PULL UP A BOLLARD phrase. 1. A friendly invitation to sit down. This >> phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program >> in the 1950s. > >That second sentence is true, but I don't think it entered the >language. I certainly haven't heard it. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. [...] > > CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System > > (this is not available in the United States). This following quote [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > snipped, but the term is correct. I doubt it's known by people other > than nerds like me though. I've seen it in several other telephone systems used within Corporate America. My first encounter was probably around 1980. /dps >On Aug 28, 9:10 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com> wrote: >[...] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I've seen it in several other telephone systems used within Corporate >America. My first encounter was probably around 1980. I'm pretty sure it was a feature of a small office telephone system I bought in the late 1980s. I think it was called a 'London 8' and if so the '8' referred to the total number of external and internal lines it could handle. We might have configured it for three connected to the world and five on our desks. I don't think we ever did camp on, though. It was easier to shout. SignaturePaul >mikmooney@googlemail.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >snipped, but the term is correct. I doubt it's known by people other >than nerds like me though. I worked at a company where the internal phones could do this when calling another internal extension. I'd never heard of it before or since. Now I know it came from British English. I guess it wasn't as useful as some thought, or it wouldn't have died out. [snip] SignatureAl in St. Lou >I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >leave the BrE speakers to comment on the following selection of >titbits: My comments are based on what I have experience with in Canada. >AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. I've heard this in Canada, though it isn't common. >BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term >might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something >else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have >this connotation. I've seen this on fats-food menus and on packaging of ready-made hamburger patties. >BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a >restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: Book is common for "reserve", but not for a restaurant. >CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System >(this is not available in the United States). This following quote [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >phone will ring and be connected automatically to the person trying to >contact you." Common jargon for those in the telecom industry. >CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced >"croin" by members of the COUNTY set. We don't use "crown" in Canada of course, but I have heard it said "croin" by a few speakers with heavy accents, though I am not sure which British accent was used. >DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). I've seen this in advertisements for cars, but not for over 40 years. >MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply >MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff >used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once >made mainly from meat. Mincemeat is used in Canada strictly for the sweet pie filling. >OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a >car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's >side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. We don't use this term for cars, but I would question which side of the car the fast lane is on. Is the fast lane not always on the NEARSIDE? On 28 Aug 2007, Oleg Lego wrote >> I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Book is common for "reserve", but not for a restaurant. It's the "never": I'd book a table in a restaurant, but if they put one of those little cards on it, it'd read "Reserved". >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the >> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of the car the fast lane is on. Is the fast lane not always on > the NEARSIDE? No -- it's "near" or "off" the kerb; the side nearest the kerb is the "nearside". The definition is odd, though: saying that the offside is "the left-hand side of a car" is only true when driving on the right -- and if you're driving on the right, you're probably in a country where they don't say "offside/nearside". So if somebody's calling it the "offside", they're probably referring to the right-hand side of the car, away from the kerb. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the >>> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >it the "offside", they're probably referring to the right-hand side >of the car, away from the kerb. Very odd indeed. If I now understand it correctly, You reference the side of the car based on the kerb, so the definition given is entirely backwards for Britain. On 28 Aug 2007, Oleg Lego wrote >>>> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the >>>> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the side of the car based on the kerb, so the definition given > is entirely backwards for Britain. Yup. The nearside is the passenger's side; the offside is the driver's side. The physical side of the car being referenced (left or right) obviously differs between the UK and NAmer. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On 28 Aug 2007, HVS wrote > On 28 Aug 2007, Oleg Lego wrote >> Very odd indeed. If I now understand it correctly, You >> reference the side of the car based on the kerb, so the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > driver's side. The physical side of the car being referenced > (left or right) obviously differs between the UK and NAmer. I noticed after writing that that there's an even bigger hole in the original definition: "OFFSIDE...the fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's side of the car is called the NEARSIDE." The fast lane of a road is *always* on the driver's side of the car, so they've managed to define the driver's side as both offside and nearside. It's rubbish, basically. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 28 Aug 2007, HVS wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > It's rubbish, basically. But curious rubbish; conceivably deliberately misleading, or maybe the non-Brit author has been set up by a bunch of stone-faced Brit colleagues down the boozer [1] (cf 'irony')? Colden Common is about five miles from where I grew up. My first ever job (circa 1978) was as a Tape Op at IBM's Hursley Park laboratory. I don't remember either place being a zone of particular linguistic creativity or diversity. 'Crowns' were commemorative 5 shilling pieces - I've still got ones for Churchill's death and Brenda's Silver Jubilee. Before decimalisation in 1971 we used a coin worth Two Shillings and sixpence called a 'Half-crown'. Neither are the subject of significant amounts of conversation, even in Colden Common or Hursley (also noted for its ornate chimneys). A cr?che is a road accident in Surrey. DC [1] In Hursley, the Kings Head or the Dolphin. In Colden Common that big one as you drive up the hill, where I once went for a drink with wosserface, you know, nice girl, went to Queen Mary's to do sociology? In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >>>> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the >>>> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Very odd indeed. If I now understand it correctly, You reference the >side of the car based on the kerb, Not quite. When using "nearside" of a vehicle in relation to a road, we do mean the side nearest the kerb. But when talking of a vehicle in isolation, we use "nearside" to mean the side of the vehicle opposite the driver. Usually they amount to the same thing of course, but not always. For a LHD vehicle in the UK the meaning of "nearside" is context-dependent. On the road, it's the left; in the garage, it's the right. The motor industry in the UK has moved away from "nearside" and "offside". Nowadays what I hear is "driver side" and "passenger side" (or it might be "driver's side" and "passenger's side" - it's hard to tell). But the man in the street is more likely to say "nearside" and "offside", unless perhaps it's a LHD car. >so the definition given is entirely >backwards for Britain. It's worse than that. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >LHD vehicle in the UK the meaning of "nearside" is context-dependent. On >the road, it's the left; in the garage, it's the right. LHD? "Lorry, Heavy Duty"? And how do you pronounce "LHD"? I gather it isn't "ell-aitch-dee", or you would have used "an LHD vehicle". >The motor industry in the UK has moved away from "nearside" and >"offside". Nowadays what I hear is "driver side" and "passenger side" >(or it might be "driver's side" and "passenger's side" - it's hard to >tell). But the man in the street is more likely to say "nearside" and >"offside", unless perhaps it's a LHD car. I think "driver's side" and "passenger('s) side" make a lot more sense. "Fast lane" and "slow lane" make sense too. Unfortunately, there seems to be some disagreement about which lane in the "inside lane" and which is the "outside lane". I call the curb lane "the outside lane", and the one closest to the centre line or median, the "inside lane", but in the past 5 years I have met a surprising number of folks who mean the opposite. >>so the definition given is entirely >>backwards for Britain. > >It's worse than that. It's dead, Jim. Dead, Jim. In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >>When using "nearside" of a vehicle in relation to a road, we do mean the >>side nearest the kerb. But when talking of a vehicle in isolation, we [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >LHD? "Lorry, Heavy Duty"? And how do you pronounce "LHD"? I gather it >isn't "ell-aitch-dee", or you would have used "an LHD vehicle". It's "left hand drive", that is to say, constructed so that the driver sits on the left. In the UK, the abbreviations LHD and RHD are so common they don't need explanation. I can see it might be different in North America, where LHD can be pretty-much be taken for granted. >>The motor industry in the UK has moved away from "nearside" and >>"offside". Nowadays what I hear is "driver side" and "passenger side" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I think "driver's side" and "passenger('s) side" make a lot more >sense. "Fast lane" and "slow lane" make sense too. "Fast lane" and "slow lane" are somewhat controversial here in the UK. For instance, in light traffic, the left lane is the proper lane except when overtaking, regardless of speed. Rules and customs vary by country, of course. Officialdom calls them "lane 1", "lane 2", etc, with lane 1 being the "slow" lane. The trouble is, there's no term in that system for the "fast" lane. ObCrossThread: I wrote that last paragraph, briefly considered changing the numerals to words, and realised it was actually correct as it is. Words would be wrong. >Unfortunately, there seems to be some disagreement about which lane in >the "inside lane" and which is the "outside lane". I call the curb >lane "the outside lane", and the one closest to the centre line or >median, the "inside lane", but in the past 5 years I have met a >surprising number of folks who mean the opposite. There's no disagreement here in the UK. Everybody uses the terms the other way round from you. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >>>When using "nearside" of a vehicle in relation to a road, we do mean the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >they don't need explanation. I can see it might be different in North >America, where LHD can be pretty-much be taken for granted. Not so much taken for granted as "only spoken of when left hand drive becomes important to the conversation, and then only in words, rather than abbreviations". >>>The motor industry in the UK has moved away from "nearside" and >>>"offside". Nowadays what I hear is "driver side" and "passenger side" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >when overtaking, regardless of speed. Rules and customs vary by country, >of course. That's the case here in Canada, too, when speaking of highways. In towns or cities, there is no such requirement, hence the "inside" and "outside" lanes. >Officialdom calls them "lane 1", "lane 2", etc, with lane 1 being the >"slow" lane. The trouble is, there's no term in that system for the >"fast" lane. I have no idea what they are officially called here. >ObCrossThread: I wrote that last paragraph, briefly considered changing >the numerals to words, and realised it was actually correct as it is. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >There's no disagreement here in the UK. Everybody uses the terms the >other way round from you. Interesting. I learned it somewhere, probably many years ago, and until recently, had never heard it referred to the other way, or at least not in any way I noticed. I always assumed the designation came from viewing the road as a whole, with the outside being farthest from the centre. Doing a little Googling shows me that the most likely problem for me is that it's yet another case of Canadian usage being influenced by both British and American usage. > >In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > It's dead, Jim. Dead, Jim.- Hide quoted text - Dead. And there's Klingons on the starboard [1] bow. DC [1] Offside in the UK, Channel Islands and Gibraltar, except on Tuesdays. http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php: > >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the > >> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of > >> the car. The driver's side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. Harvey Van Sickle: > No -- it's "near" or "off" the kerb; the side nearest the kerb is > the "nearside". > > The definition is odd, though: saying that the offside is "the > left-hand side of a car" is only true when driving on the right ... It might be useful to have a term that worked that way if everyone used it, but what I've read is that "nearside" comes from horses and *always* refers to the left side, and "offside" is always the right. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Ever wonder why they call the screen msb@vex.net a vacuum tube?" -- Kent Paul Dolan >http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php: >> >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >used it, but what I've read is that "nearside" comes from horses and >*always* refers to the left side, and "offside" is always the right. Could well be. Tradition dictates that you mount a horse from the left side, and many horses are trained that way. Better trainers will ensure that a horse will tolerate being mounted from both sides. "Balancing" should be done for all aspects of horse/human interaction; leading, lunging, approaching, etc. >>http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php: >>> >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "Balancing" should be done for all aspects of horse/human interaction; > leading, lunging, approaching, etc. Highway carnage is avoided, fortunately, by the fact that North Americans don't use "offside" and "nearside" in reference to motor vehicles. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php: >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Highway carnage is avoided, fortunately, by the fact that North Americans > don't use "offside" and "nearside" in reference to motor vehicles. Forty plus thousand Americans die in motor vehicle accidents every year, I can't imagine what you're talking about. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower >>>>http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Forty plus thousand Americans die in motor vehicle accidents every year, > I can't imagine what you're talking about. It would be even worse if they frequently confused one side with the other due to ambiguously understood terminology, but I take your point. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. [..] >>OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a >>car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the car the fast lane is on. Is the fast lane not always on the >NEARSIDE? No. We've had this discussion before and the above definition is wrong. The nearside is the side immediately adjacent to the pavement, which means the sidewalk here. In Britain, the nearside is the left-hand side of the vehicle, and the offside is to the right, adjacent to the faster lanes. In British right-hand-drive vehicles, the driver sits adjacent to the offside door. SignatureRobin Herts, England In alt.usage.english, Mike M wrote: >I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > >http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php > >I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so off the mark. I think it's meant to be humorous, isn't it? Not that it's any funnier than it's accurate. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > last "O" either). In my bit of inner-city Manchester we called it the Offy. > AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. Nope - propeller is what I've always heard. > AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine > BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. Yep - pretty recent > BIFFER is the brand name shown on big DUSTBINS. That's BIFFA: http://www.biffa.co.uk/publications/problem/mean1.php I'm not sure the two are connected. 'biffer' is also used for an unattractive woman. cf 'munter' > BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. Well, the New World blackbirds are not entirely similar to the European blackbird. Of course, some of the NW black birds are not entirely like black birds, what with there being a red-winged version, a red-breasted version and a yellow-shouldered version. > The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their > suitability for eating (now highly illegal). Droll. The compiler seeks to rip the piss. We all know the nursery rhyme. I have no idea whether it actually *is* illegal to eat them, but few people would care. > BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. Blue Cross is a UK animal charity. http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/home/home.asp Non-Blue Cross animal hospitals don't have a blue cross > BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a > restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: Uh huh. > BRANSTON n. 1. Pickle. Yes >Also known as a BRANNIE pickle. Not in my hearing > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. Nope. Pigtails are pigtails, bunches are bunches. Never the twain ... > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > tonight". I've heard it used. It's not common and "Chinese" is the usual term. ditto "Indian" for sub-continental cuisine. Much trouble has been caused by hungry drunks exclaiming "I could murder a Chinese! / an Indian!" at the end of the evening. Mike Harding claimed one of his roadies used the latter expression at the end of a day's filming in the US on a Native American reservation and hilarity failed to ensue for quite some time. > CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. ChipolatA. From It. cipollata > COMBS n. 1. Long-john underwear. The word comes from COMBINATIONS. I know it as "Coms" which reflects the pronunciation. I agree the etymology. Haven't heard the term or seen mention of the garment for decades. > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. Fair enough. Though the crown and the shilling are historical curiosities now. > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. True enough > DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Uh huh > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain > seaweed. Not sure about the seaweed (are they thinking of laver / lava bread?) but otherwise yes. > FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term > has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this > knowledge you will not be surprised to learn that SEVNIGHT is also > used in English and means ... (guess). Fortnight not known over there? MW has it. "Sennight" is the more common spelling. > GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. Dickensian but true > GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. Nah. A greenhouse is a greenhouse. A glasshouse is an Army prison. > MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply > MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff > used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once > made mainly from meat. There ya go > OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a > car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's > side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. IANAD but I thought it was the other way round. ie the 'offside' is the driver's side and is the right hand side here and the left hand side where they drive on the right. > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Yes. If you'd rather not be invited again. > REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. To > recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular > point". I wouldn't agree we use it as in the example - that sounds US to me - but we use "revision" for the process whereby students review (or "revise") their coursework ready for an exam. > SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men > are all talking about SPORT". Nah. "Sport" is the whole schmeer from athletics to, er, some sport beginning with 'z' > STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. This is a term used by English > bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. Nope. "deposit account" or "savings account". SignatureJohn Dean Oxford john-dean@fraglineone.net had it ... > > BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. > > Yep - pretty recent Biffer Bacon is a character in Viz but I don't think he's fat. Uncouth and sloppy, but not fat or greedy. SignatureDavid ===== >> I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. The first quote in the OED for the BrE blackbird is dated 1486. Now, can someone remind me when the first English-speakers settled in the New World? >Well, the New World blackbirds are not entirely similar to the European >blackbird. Of course, some of the NW black birds are not entirely like black [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >have no idea whether it actually *is* illegal to eat them, but few people >would care. >> CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced >> "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. > >Fair enough. Though the crown and the shilling are historical curiosities >now. Crown coins are still minted for collectors, but have the face value of 5 GBP. The purchase price depends on the metal used: http://www.royalmint.com/Annexes/diamond.aspx 2007 Diamond Wedding GBP 5 Gold Proof Price: GBP 775.00 2007 Diamond Wedding GBP 5 Silver Proof Price: GBP 39.50 http://www.royalmint.com/PackedSets/DICRSP.aspx >> DOWNS n. 1. Hills. > >True enough Downs are hills, but not all hills are downs. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 28 Aug 2007, John Dean wrote >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the >> "OFFSIDE of a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is the driver's side and is the right hand side here and the > left hand side where they drive on the right. It is; the definition writer's all over the shop on this. (I tried to figure out where he's got confused, but had to give up as it were doin' my 'ead in.) Anyhoo...the "nearside" is "near" the kerb; the "offside" is "away from" (or "off") the kerb. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > Anyhoo...the "nearside" is "near" the kerb; the "offside" is "away > from" (or "off") the kerb. Unless you're behind the ball or in your own end. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself. | Thomas Jefferson kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ On 28 Aug 2007, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote >> Anyhoo...the "nearside" is "near" the kerb; the "offside" is >> "away from" (or "off") the kerb. > > Unless you're behind the ball or in your own end. Can we do off-side vs leg-side now? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 28 Aug 2007, John Dean wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to figure out where he's got confused, but had to give up as it were > doin' my 'ead in.) It reads to me as if the writer was trying to convey the UK meaning, but from the position of somebody sitting in a US car. The whole work suffers from that same problem. That is, seeing the (so- called) UK phrases from a US perspective. E.g. Beefburger does not mean hamburger - it is rather, what I believe Americans would call "the pattie"which goes inside a bun to make a hamburger. E.g. 2 "Pull up a bollard" - This is very obscure, but was probably a favourite phrase of a colleague during the writers sojourn in the UK. (I once had a colleague who was fond of saying "Pull up a book and make yourself a tome" - Again, probably an obscure phrase from a comedy show - certainly not something to appear in a "UK English" guide). There is a danger when arriving in a new area, both at home and abroad, of judging all new experiences to be commonplace in the new area. In fact they may be as strange in the new area as they are at home (Let "Banjo=Car Boot Sale" be marked exhibit A) -- WH John Dean wrote, in <5jj7bjF3tpot7U1@mid.individual.net> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:16:59 +0100: > > AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. > > Nope - propeller is what I've always heard. It's not what I would use myself but I am quite familiar with Airscrew. SignatureNick Spalding >John Dean wrote, in <5jj7bjF3tpot7U1@mid.individual.net> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:16:59 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >It's not what I would use myself but I am quite familiar with Airscrew. TheSomeoneHasToSayItDepartment: Above a certain height an airscrew qualifies one (actually two) for the Mile-High-Club. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > TheSomeoneHasToSayItDepartment: > > Above a certain height an airscrew qualifies one (actually two) for > the Mile-High-Club. More difficult that it used to be, because of the smoke detectors in the toilets. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> TheSomeoneHasToSayItDepartment: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >More difficult that it used to be, because of the smoke detectors in the >toilets. Ask the flight attendant to bring his/her tube of Vaseline. SignatureRobin Herts, England Robin Bignall filted: >>> TheSomeoneHasToSayItDepartment: >>>=20 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Ask the flight attendant to bring his/her tube of Vaseline. That's now a tube under 3 ounces, sealed in a plastic bag....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >> TheSomeoneHasToSayItDepartment: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > More difficult that it used to be, because of the smoke detectors in the > toilets. I never checked, actually. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower > John Dean wrote, in <5jj7bjF3tpot...@mid.individual.net> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:16:59 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's not what I would use myself but I am quite familiar with Airscrew. > -- I thought the Airscrew was the peoples that works in an aeroplanes. DC On 31 Aug 2007, Django Cat wrote >> John Dean wrote, in <5jj7bjF3tpot...@mid.individual.net> >> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:16:59 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I thought the Airscrew was the peoples that works in an > aeroplanes. DC Nah: it's what you have when you join the Mile High Club. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 31 Aug 2007, Django Cat wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nah: it's what you have when you join the Mile High Club. Nice. >> The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their >> suitability for eating (now highly illegal). > > Droll. The compiler seeks to rip the piss. We all know the nursery rhyme. > I have no idea whether it actually *is* illegal to eat them, but few > people would care. I would think that, far from demonstrating their suitability for eating, the nursery rhyme/song would be evidence of their unsuitability. Any bird that keeps singing after it's been baked is likely to be more trouble to eat than it is worth, however tasty. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. In alt.usage.english, Roland Hutchinson wrote: >>> The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their >>> suitability for eating (now highly illegal). [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >keeps singing after it's been baked is likely to be more trouble to eat >than it is worth, however tasty. Having eaten blackbirds (roasted, since you ask), I can confirm that they are indeed very tasty. Mind you I didn't observe the traditional final flourish of cutting the head off and sucking the brains out. *Is* blackbird-eating highly illegal? Not that I ate mine in the UK, you understand. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >>FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term >>has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Fortnight not known over there? MW has it. "Sennight" is the more common > spelling. Fortnight isn't alien to me. Long, long ago we calculated the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight. T'other one ("s...ght") is furren. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower > Fortnight isn't alien to me. Long, long ago we calculated the speed of > light in furlongs per fortnight. T'other one ("s...ght") is furren. > > --Jeff I'm sure that the furlongs-per-fortnight calculation was covered in an aue thread not long ago (last year?). It may have been buried in a post having nothing even remotely to do with such a topic -- as happens here so often. Cheers, sage In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >> Fortnight isn't alien to me. Long, long ago we calculated the speed of >> light in furlongs per fortnight. T'other one ("s...ght") is furren. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >having nothing even remotely to do with such a topic -- as happens here >so often. The expression of speed in attoparsecs per microfortnight gives a certain amount of pleasure. Fortunately conversion to old-fashioned units is quite easy: it's almost exactly one inch per second. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England Mike Barnes filted: >In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >certain amount of pleasure. Fortunately conversion to old-fashioned >units is quite easy: it's almost exactly one inch per second. One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less than a litre....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >Mike Barnes filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less than a >litre....r The barn is a unit used in nuclear physics for particle cross-sections. It comes from the old saw about hitting the broad side of a barn and is equal to 10^-24 square meters. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>than a litre....r > > The barn is a unit used in nuclear physics for particle > cross-sections. It comes from the old saw about hitting the broad > side of a barn and is equal to 10^-24 square meters. Google says 10^-28. If a Hubble-barn was about a liter, that would make a "Hubble" 10^25 meters, or about a billion light years, which seems a bit small for anything having to do with cosmology. Or did I screw up the math somewhere? SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes | tho kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and (650)857-7572 | straunge |Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so | Chaucer >>>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >make a "Hubble" 10^25 meters, or about a billion light years, which >seems a bit small for anything having to do with cosmology. 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. See http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg18524832.300 and uk.rec.sheds >Or did I screw up the math somewhere? Not sure. the page above gives a Hubble as 10^9 light years, which is a billion to you and me. SignatureOleg "8 sheds" Lego >>>>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. Back in the day, I bet atomic physicists worked in CGS rather than MKS. Has our Mr. Hatunen perhaps half-remembered a definition of the barn as 10^-24 square _centimeters_? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>>>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>>than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Has our Mr. Hatunen perhaps half-remembered a definition of the barn as >10^-24 square _centimeters_? No. I was using the wikipedia article which mentions both and got my eyes crossed. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>>>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>>>than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >No. I was using the wikipedia article which mentions both and got >my eyes crossed. That's an odd way to define a "shed" vs. a "barn." In Texas, I never saw a shed larger than 20 ft by 20 ft, and I never saw a barn smaller than 50 ft by 100 ft. So, who would come along and name an area much larger than a "barn" a "shed"? SignatureAl in St. Lou Al in Dallas <alfargnoli@yahoo.com> wrote >>On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:48:23 -0400, Roland Hutchinson >>>> 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. >>>Back in the day, I bet atomic physicists worked in CGS rather than MKS. >>> >>>Has our Mr. Hatunen perhaps half-remembered a definition of the barn as >>>10^-24 square _centimeters_? >>No. I was using the wikipedia article which mentions both and got >>my eyes crossed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than 50 ft by 100 ft. So, who would come along and name an area much > larger than a "barn" a "shed"? Regional differences at play here, I suspect. Anec-data point: The machine shed on my uncle's farm in Northern Illinois had a substantially larger footprint in an aerial photo than his barn did. I think that the two buildings were close in actual usable square footage, though, because the machine shed didn't have a second level and roughly half of the barn did. And "machine shed" was standard regional usage for the building that the farm machines (tractors, plows, combines, wagons, corn pickers, etc.) were kept in. The size of the building mattered not at all; it was the machine shed. >Al in Dallas <alfargnoli@yahoo.com> wrote >>>On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:48:23 -0400, Roland Hutchinson [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >wagons, corn pickers, etc.) were kept in. The size of the building >mattered not at all; it was the machine shed. The neighbor did have something larger than my m-i-l's barn where he kept his combine and tractors, but I only heard it called his *shop*. He repaired them as well as sheltering them in there. In his younger days, or so I was told, he repaired others' machines for a price. I don't know whether his shop would have been a shed had he never used it commercially. SignatureAl in St. Lou Al in Dallas <alfargnoli@yahoo.com> wrote >>>> 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. > > That's an odd way to define a "shed" vs. a "barn." In Texas, I never > saw a shed larger than 20 ft by 20 ft, and I never saw a barn smaller > than 50 ft by 100 ft. So, who would come along and name an area much > larger than a "barn" a "shed"? Anyone familiar with a farm's machine shed, perhaps? In farming country in the Upper Midwest, the building that the various pieces of farm equipment is stored in is called the machine shed, and depending on exactly waht machinery resides there, they can be huge buildings. Usage may be changing, but in the 60's and 70's, certainly, no one would call it anything but "the machine shed." >>>>> 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Usage may be changing, but in the 60's and 70's, certainly, no one > would call it anything but "the machine shed." That's right. The distinction has nothing to do with size or construction, but with function. Properly, a barn is for hay, straw, or grain; a shed is qualified if necessary, as in "milking shed", "cowshed", "shearing shed", "machine shed", or whatever. But British supermarkets try to pull the wool by calling deep-litter eggs "barn eggs". I think using "barn" for a shed in general is American. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:46ebd753$0 $16915$88260bb3@free.teranews.com: >>>>>> 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > construction, but with function. Properly, a barn is for hay, straw, or > grain; Around here, a barn is also for cows or cows and up to a couple of horses. If only equines are kept there, it's a "stable". A building used only for corn (maize) is a "crib"; for loose grain of other types it was a "bin" or the "granary". Oh, and a "<fitb>house" was what most non-farmers would call a "shed": a small, very simple building designed to shelter one non-movable mechanism; the wellhouse, the pumphouse, the generator house. Unless, of course, it was built to shelter the chickens. That was the "hen house" when it wasn't the "chicken coop.". I suspect that with the decline in family farming that many of these specialized terms are beginning to fade. > a shed is qualified if necessary, as in "milking shed", > "cowshed", "shearing shed", "machine shed", or whatever. But British > supermarkets try to pull the wool by calling deep-litter eggs "barn > eggs". I think using "barn" for a shed in general is American. It's not only American, but non-rural American. >"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:46ebd753$0 >$16915$88260bb3@free.teranews.com: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Around here, a barn is also for cows or cows and up to a couple of >horses. If only equines are kept there, it's a "stable". I only have horses that make use of the barn (well, there's cats, too), but I still call it a barn. I wouldn't feel right calling it a stable, but I have no idea why. > A building used >only for corn (maize) is a "crib"; for loose grain of other types it was >a "bin" or the "granary". I just spent the morning moving a "bin" (12 * 16 ft.) to a position next to my barn, where I will cut doorways into both the bin and the barn, build a passageway between them, and the bin will become a "tack room". >Oh, and a "<fitb>house" was what most non-farmers would call a "shed": a >small, very simple building designed to shelter one non-movable [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >family farming that many of these specialized terms are beginning to >fade. The next "bin" I move to the (different) side of the barn will become a "hen house". It will be either 12*16 ft., or 12 * 18 ft. >> a shed is qualified if necessary, as in "milking shed", >> "cowshed", "shearing shed", "machine shed", or whatever. But British >> supermarkets try to pull the wool by calling deep-litter eggs "barn >> eggs". I think using "barn" for a shed in general is American. > >It's not only American, but non-rural American. >But British >supermarkets try to pull the wool by calling deep-litter eggs "barn >eggs". Fair enough if they are Barn Owl eggs. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>> than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > 10^-28 is a Barn. 10^-24 is a shed. That would make a shed bigger than a barn. NS says a shed is 10^-24 barns. (If this message looks a bit strange, it is because I'm just setting up a newsreader account on Thuderbird to see if I like it.) >>>>> One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>> than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >(If this message looks a bit strange, it is because I'm just setting up >a newsreader account on Thuderbird to see if I like it.) You are correct. In my haste, I neglected to add "barns" after 10^-24. >>>>>> One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>>> than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You are correct. In my haste, I neglected to add "barns" after 10^-24. The New Scientist article also said a Hubble was 109 light years, I think it meant 10^9. >>>>>>> One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>>>> than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >The New Scientist article also said a Hubble was 109 light years, I >think it meant 10^9. Yes it did. I think they had problems showing the ^ in the html. Probably didn't 'escape' it. >>>>>> One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>>>> than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >You are correct. In my haste, I neglected to add "barns" after 10^-24. Well, sh.t! SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>One is reminded of the Hubble-barn, a unit of volume slightly less >>>than a litre....r [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Google says 10^-28. Damn. I was looking at the same article but trying to write the square centimeter figure and.... Oh, never mind. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>> The barn is a unit used in nuclear physics for particle >>> cross-sections. It comes from the old saw about hitting the broad [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Damn. I was looking at the same article but trying to write the > square centimeter figure and.... Actually what I googled was "1 barn in square meters". The calculator feature is quite nice for unit conversions. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It does me no injury for my neighbor 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to say there are twenty gods, or no Palo Alto, CA 94304 |God. | Thomas Jefferson kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>> The barn is a unit used in nuclear physics for particle >>>> cross-sections. It comes from the old saw about hitting the broad [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Actually what I googled was "1 barn in square meters". The calculator >feature is quite nice for unit conversions. There was a less successful attempt by some physicists to establish a still smaller unit called a "shed". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > certain amount of pleasure. Fortunately conversion to old-fashioned > units is quite easy: it's almost exactly one inch per second. Well, one million seconds take eleven days to elapse - so a microfortnight is just over a second. I seem to recall that a parsec is three and change light years, but converting that to inches and applying the "atto-" prefix - well, I'd have to take your word for it is just over an inch (checked it; a parsec is just under 2x10^13 miles, * 5+x10^3 ft. * 12 inches * 10^-18). Now, what has a reasonable speed in inches per second? --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower >> In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > * 5+x10^3 ft. * 12 inches * 10^-18). Now, what has a reasonable speed > in inches per second? A violin bow, for one thing (roughly in the range of 0.5 to 100 in/sec while drawing sound from the instrument, by my back-of-the-envelope estimate). By the way: $ units 2438 units, 71 prefixes, 32 nonlinear units You have: attoparsec/microfortnight You want: in/sec * 1.0043268 / 0.99569184 SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. In alt.usage.english, Jeffrey Turner wrote: >> The expression of speed in attoparsecs per microfortnight gives a >> certain amount of pleasure. Fortunately conversion to old-fashioned [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >* 5+x10^3 ft. * 12 inches * 10^-18). Now, what has a reasonable speed >in inches per second? My mouse. Though I'd prefer cm per second. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >> The expression of speed in attoparsecs per microfortnight gives a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > My mouse. Though I'd prefer cm per second. How about leagues per sesquicentennial? Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> The expression of speed in attoparsecs per microfortnight gives a >> certain amount of pleasure. Fortunately conversion to old-fashioned [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 2x10^13 miles, * 5+x10^3 ft. * 12 inches * 10^-18). Now, what has a > reasonable speed in inches per second? The current world record in the 100 m dash is just under 403 in/sec. For the mile, it's 284 in/sec. The world record for 50 m freestyle is 94 in/sec. 1 mph is 17.6 in/sec. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |This isn't good. I've seen good, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |and it didn't look anything like Palo Alto, CA 94304 |this. | MST3K kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Well, one million seconds take eleven days to elapse I meant to point out that a billion seconds would take 31 years to count. I like the 11 days - 31 years contrast for grasping budget numbers. And thanks for the input on in/s velocities. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower >>> In alt.usage.english, sage wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >count. I like the 11 days - 31 years contrast for grasping budget >numbers. One million seconds is great for many illustrative purposes. I have used it often for showing someone that their estimate of time taken to do something is impossible. Recently, I pointed out that buying every combination of numbers on Canada's Lotto 6/49, buying tickets at one per second, would take in the order of 5 months. Thanks for the billion reference. I'll put that one into my arsenal. > > FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term > > has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Fortnight not known over there? MW has it. "Sennight" is the more common > spelling. Apparently not. I also learnt from posting on the Pepys diary site that them over there find 'Xday wekk/fortnight' as in 'I'm on holiday till Tuesday week' distressingly foreign. > > GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. > > Nah. A greenhouse is a greenhouse. A glasshouse is an Army prison. Yet, Shirley, 'the glasshouses at Kew'? Whatever, don't throw stones if you live in one.... > > SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men > > are all talking about SPORT". > > Nah. "Sport" is the whole schmeer from athletics to, er, some sport > beginning with 'z' You roll down hill in a biginflatable ball. Zeebanging? Something like that? DC >You roll down hill in a biginflatable ball. Zeebanging? Something >like that? The one where you are glued to the outside of the ball is called adzorbing I believe. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > The one where you are glued to the outside of the ball is called > adzorbing I believe. It's called madness, is what it's called. -- WH > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > leave the BrE speakers to comment on the following selection of > titbits: A fine collection of boleaux. > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > last "O" either). I've never heard it: "offy" exists, though. "-o" slang isn't very common. > AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. Yes, but either technical or old-fashioned. > AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. Never heard of. > BANJO n. 1. A garage sale where children's clothes and toys may be > found. Note: Only much later did we discover this name is simply a > composite of the ladies' names who run the BANJO. It is not a term to > be commonly understood by those people outside Colden Common, HANTS. So why did the idiots leave it in, then? > BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term > might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something > else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have > this connotation. A vile word; but it refers only to patties made of bovines --I won't go so far as to use the word "beef". > BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. > BIFFER is the brand name shown on big DUSTBINS. Biffa is a surname, borne in this context by a waste-disposal company. Cf Grundon. It may be used for people: I don't know. Not "Biffer". Biffo, OTOH, is a bear in either the /Beano/ or the /Dandy/. > BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. The English love > BLACKBIRDS. When N.A.S.A. sprayed blackbirds with detergent, some > English bird lovers nearly had apoplexy due to their confusion with > BLACKBIRDS. The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their > suitability for eating (now highly illegal). No idea what they're on about. The cock blackbird is indeed black. Delig htful song. > BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. Yes, that's at least partly right: there was a pro-animal charity called "Blue Cross Homes" or something. > BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a > restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: See Harvey on this. Both words are normal. > BRANSTON n. 1. Pickle. Also known as a BRANNIE pickle. Never heard "Brannie". The stuff is, as I've reported in AUE before now, a very boring sweet brown pickle: the Brits are so unimaginative in these matters that the economy can support are several lookalike brands. Its only point of interest is that the ingredients list "rutabaga", a word nobody but me understands: this is because all right-minded people hate swede. > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. No. Bunches are the hasty, or shorter-haired, substitute for pigtails: no plaiting ("braiding"), just grabbed together with one of those rubber band things. > CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System > (this is not available in the United States). [...] Experts have spoken on this. > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > tonight". Yes, possible; but I think the usual form is just "Chinky" on its own. Often "a Chinky"; cf "an Indian", as brilliantly satitrised as "an English" by those very funny people whose name just won't come to me (Meera Syal, et al.). > CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. A chipolata, ending in "a", is a thin sausage; it's filled with the usual British-sausage stuff. > COMBS n. 1. Long-john underwear. The word comes from COMBINATIONS. Yonks out of date. They were, I understand, one-piece underwear, and may or may not have had long legs. Maybe only for children? Referred to briefly in Molesworth, and the subject of a catch-phrase when I was at school: "Hairy combs!" for "Here he comes!" > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. Not ordinary speech, but a technical term. We've previously had occasion to speak severely to N Americans about their odd use of "oi" when representing OtherE accents: kindly desist. > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. Not ordinary language, but common in placenames. > DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). Yes; but I don't think I've actually heard anybody /speak/ it. > DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Contrasted with alternator. > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain > seaweed. I do know that "savoury duck" is used for a faggot in some books, so I suppose it must be used in some places. It's a round sort of patty thing the size of a child's fist and wrapped in mesentery (is that right?). Good ones are delicious, and bad ones are awful. Never heard of seaweed as a component, and I used to live in southern Wales, where a seaweed (laver bread) is eaten, and great faggots are made. > FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term > has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this > knowledge you will not be surprised to learn that SEVNIGHT is also > used in English and means ... (guess). He must mean "sennight": that's way obsolete --I'd give it three hundred years at a guess. > GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. Yes; but not widespread, very old-fashioned, and I rather think applied to tatty brollies not smart ones. > GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. Yes. "Glasshouse" is the term used in the business. Also army slang for the military prison. > MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply > MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's > side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. As others have said, the authors are confused. The near side of a horse or vehicle is the kerb side, and the off side is the outside; so the offside is the driver's side. > PULL UP A BOLLARD phrase. 1. A friendly invitation to sit down. This > phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program > in the 1950s. Well, some of us will use it among ourselves, Charlie. > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Way obsolete. Unheard for a century or two. > REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. To > recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular > point". No, wrong again. One meaning is indeed to change; the other is "review" as done by a student before an exam. > SPLASH n. 1. A small stream which would likely not have a bridge, but > people would simple drive through (i.e. splash through). As in, > "Wilson's B&B is on the corner after the SPLASH." Well, yes. It refers to the bit of the stream you ride across, when it's not big enough to be called a ford. > SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men > are all talking about SPORT". Yes. And to the Brit ear, "athletics" means "track and field", though a footballer --or racehorse --may be called an athlete without confysion. > STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. This is a term used by English > bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. Never heard "standing account"; "deposit account" yes. > TOMMY BAR n. 1. Crow bar. A straight bar used to lever something. I don't think I'd use "tommy bar" for anything as big as a crowbar. Yep, so bad it's good. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: > > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > > last "O" either). > > I've never heard it: "offy" exists, though. "-o" slang isn't very > common. Agreed, it sounds AusE rather than BrE. SignatureNick Spalding > Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Agreed, it sounds AusE rather than BrE. Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only "bottle shops" or "liquor stores". SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jjv26F3uen4jU1@mid.individual.net> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:04:04 +0800: > > Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> > > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only "bottle > shops" or "liquor stores". I was referring to the -o ending not that specific instance. SignatureNick Spalding >Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jjv26F3uen4jU1@mid.individual.net> > on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:04:04 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only "bottle >> shops" or "liquor stores". And we call them "bottle-ohs". >I was referring to the -o ending not that specific instance. Yes, that does sound strine. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jjv26F3uen4jU1@mid.individual.net> >>on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:04:04 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > And we call them "bottle-ohs". I wonder whether this is regional. Peter and at least one other have disputed this, and I too only know "bottle-o" as the man who used to come for the empties. I don't mix with young people enough these days, but I'm not aware of any short version of bottle shop over here in the West. >>I was referring to the -o ending not that specific instance. > > Yes, that does sound strine. Very. I'm sure we have more -o diminutives than any other brand of English apart from New Zealand. SignatureRobbo Bannister >>>> Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only >>>> "bottle shops" or "liquor stores". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > but I'm not aware of any short version of bottle shop over here in > the West. I'm with you and Peter for what I've heard in Victoria. But a web search shows that it is a brand name of bottle shops: http://www.thebottle-o.com.au/aboutus.cfm of which there are none in my local area. So perhaps it is making inroads as a generic term in the areas that have a lot of that brand. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>>>> Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only >>>>> "bottle shops" or "liquor stores". [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > my local area. So perhaps it is making inroads as a generic term in > the areas that have a lot of that brand. According to that web site there are a couple in my area, but I'd never noticed the name. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>>> Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only >>>>>> "bottle shops" or "liquor stores". [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > According to that web site there are a couple in my area, but I'd never > noticed the name. Amazing. It seems there are a couple within 15 minutes' drive from my house, but I have never noticed them. Anyway, there are 3 liquor stores and 2 drive-thru pub bottle shops within walking distance, so I'm not likely to look for Bottle-o (not that I'm likely to walk carrying a carton of beer or a dozen bottles of wine either). SignatureRob Bannister [...] >I'm not aware of any short version of bottle shop over here in the West. It is a natural AusE formation, an automatic suffix, so I would be surprised if it didn't exist. If the term "bottle-shop" exists then "bottle-o" will follow. Your, and Peter's, bottle-man pre-dates my experience. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > > Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> > > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Not possible. We don't have "off-licences" in Australia, only "bottle > shops" or "liquor stores". Larger versions of such establishments in NZ (formally 'liquor wholesalers') are 'booze barns'. Errol Cavit | General Freyberg to the Minister of Defence, Aug 1940: "I wish the people of New Zealand could know the wonderful effect the presence of our men had upon the people at Home here. I also wish they could have seen the fine sight of 6000 bronzed New Zealanders marching across the Sussex Weald." > Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Agreed, it sounds AusE rather than BrE. I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". -- WH >> Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> >> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his horse-drawn cart collecting empty bottles. A bit like a stept-o. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > >>Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his > horse-drawn cart collecting empty bottles. A bit like a stept-o. Is that where "Steptoe and Son" came from? Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his >> horse-drawn cart collecting empty bottles. A bit like a stept-o. > > Is that where "Steptoe and Son" came from? The other way around, I'm afraid. There was no such thing as a stept-o until I invented the word just now. The Steptoes' occupation was "rag and bone men". I imagine that this was because, at some stage in history, rags and bones were especially valuable recyclable items. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > > > > I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". > > > Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The other way around, I'm afraid. There was no such thing as a stept-o > until I invented the word just now. Ah, I see. > The Steptoes' occupation was "rag and bone men". I imagine that this > was because, at some stage in history, rags and bones were especially > valuable recyclable items. I believe rags were used in paper manufacturing. I don't know about bones. The US version of the show was Sanford and Son, they were also junk dealers. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >>>>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >>>> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Brian Bones went to the glue factory. Cheers, Sage >Bones went to the glue factory. Direct from the U.S.S. Enterprise? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >>> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > because, at some stage in history, rags and bones were especially > valuable recyclable items. He used to come round with his donkey and cart, crying "Rag bone. Rag bone." Hazel Grove Cheshire in the 40s. Cheers, Sage sage@allstream.net had it ... > >>>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". > >>> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > He used to come round with his donkey and cart, crying "Rag bone. Rag > bone." Hazel Grove Cheshire in the 40s. There was at least one rag and bone man in small-town Warwickshire in the late 50s, although ours had a horse. SignatureDavid ===== > sage@allstream.net had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > There was at least one rag and bone man in small-town Warwickshire in > the late 50s, although ours had a horse. We still hear them here very occasionally but I haven't actually seen one so have no idea whether there was a horse. They and their horses were frequent passers by in my childhood in N W London. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >sage@allstream.net had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >There was at least one rag and bone man in small-town Warwickshire in >the late 50s, although ours had a horse. Certainly had one in Wigan, who cried "ag bo" in the late 60s and possibly even early 70s. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > Certainly had one in Wigan, who cried "ag bo" in the late 60s and > possibly even early 70s. Ours used to call out "rare bun, rare bun". -- WH > >>>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". > >>> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > He used to come round with his donkey and cart, crying "Rag bone. Rag > bone." Hazel Grove Cheshire in the 40s. Not to mention Upper Holloway N London in the early 80s. DC >> >>>> I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >> >>> Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Not to mention Upper Holloway N London in the early 80s. Also in Nottingham in the 1940s and 50s. We also had a chap with a horse and cart come round a couple of times a week selling fruit and vegetables. He used to wear a leather apron, and leather gaiters which came up almost to his knees. He used to shout "Hawker", which, although he was one, has always seemed to me to be odd. SignatureRobin Herts, England >Also in Nottingham in the 1940s and 50s. We also had a chap with a >horse and cart come round a couple of times a week selling fruit and >vegetables. He used to wear a leather apron, and leather gaiters >which came up almost to his knees. He used to shout "Hawker", which, >although he was one, has always seemed to me to be odd. That reminds me of the signs some people had at their front gates or front doors: "No Hawkers No Circulars" -- the anti-spam and anti-junkmail filters of the time. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>>>I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > which came up almost to his knees. He used to shout "Hawker", which, > although he was one, has always seemed to me to be odd. We had a coalman called Mr Sparkes. He didn't have a horse AFAIR. When delivering, he wore a leather hood that came down over his shoulders, presumably to protect him from the contents of the sacks. He was small, black with coaldust and Welsh and I believed that he had dug the coal out himself. He had a sideline as a newsagent and when I was ill, as I often was as a child, he would bring round bundles of old comics for me. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>>>>>I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >out himself. He had a sideline as a newsagent and when I was ill, as I >often was as a child, he would bring round bundles of old comics for me. Round about the time I started secondary school, our local coalmen (I went to school with a couple of their sons) moved from horses and carts to lorries by buying secondhand ex-service vehicles. They would also use the lorries, suitably fitted with clean sacks on the open backs, for house moving, believe it or not. The early 1950s were a good time to buy ex-service equipment, particularly electronics. Radio hams of my generation will remember the R1155 receiver, an excellent piece of equipment with one of the smoothest tuning dials ever made. It, together with its transmitter T1154, was standard equipment in most Bomber Command aircraft. The R1155, costing the Gummint £60 each to build in 1940s pounds, was on sale, brand new, for £5 at that time, an amount of money that was astronomical to me. I didn't get to own one until I was 15, and sold it when I was short of funds in 1962. Pictures of R1154 and T1154 here. http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/equiphist/r1155/r1155-hist.html SignatureRobin Herts, England (Snipped a bit more than I meant to.) the R1155 receiver, an excellent piece of equipment with one of the > smoothest tuning dials ever made. It, together with its transmitter > T1154, was standard equipment in most Bomber Command aircraft. The [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > here. > http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/equiphist/r1155/r1155-hist.html I bought a 19 set, one of the items used in tanks and other armoured vehicles. I couldn't afford a cannon plug to get the wiring sorted out so hooked up my power pack to the plug's pins after determining (without a circuit diagram) where and what went. Unfortunately, I also decided the headphones went to different pins on the same plug, hooked them up, put them on my head and switched on. Splat! According to my father, who heard the crash as I hit the wall on the other side of the room, I've never been the same since. That particular set was donated to the Montague Motor Museum in Beaulieu, Hants, for use in the Bren-gun carrier that's on display there. (Cue: "And my Lord Montague of Bewleeeeee.") Cheers, Sage > The early 1950s were a good time to buy ex-service equipment, > particularly electronics. Radio hams of my generation will remember [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > here. > http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/equiphist/r1155/r1155-hist.html Some of those were fitted to Australian aircraft too, but much more common was the R1082/T1083 pair (1930s technology), even right to the end of the war. http://www.binbrook.demon.co.uk/html/Fairey_Battle.html http://www.rnmuseumradarandcommunications2006.org.uk/Type%20T1083%20TX%20AND%20R 1082%20RX.htm There were also Australian-built versions of those, the AR14/AT10 made by AWA. http://www.ling.mq.edu.au/~robinson/Australian_radios/AR14.jpg SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > >>>>>>>I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > black with coaldust and Welsh and I believed that he had dug the coal > out himself. Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... DC Whither the Corona Man? >>>>>>>>>I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... Bit of a trek from the mines to N W London... mind you, when I was a > small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... > and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... > > DC Whither the Corona Man? Ah, the Corona thread: is it that time of year already? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > mind you, when I was a > > small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ah, the Corona thread: is it that time of year already? Hey, we were only allowed Corona once or twice a year. Shouldn't you be on a train? SignatureDavid ===== > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hey, we were only allowed Corona once or twice a year. We had it delivered every week but never dandelion and burdock... > Shouldn't you be on a train? Early in the morning I shall be. Do we have an agenda? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Early in the morning I shall be. Do we have an agenda? I think it's Pot Luck conversation. SignatureDavid ===== >laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >I think it's Pot Luck conversation. Does that mean you'll all be talking with American accents? (I wish I was fit enough to drive up and see all y'all.) SignatureRobin Herts, England docrobin@ntlworld.com had it ... > >laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Does that mean you'll all be talking with American accents? Could be. We shall find out. > (I wish I was fit enough to drive up and see all y'all.) One day, we'll come to you. SignatureDavid ===== >> Shouldn't you be on a train? > > Early in the morning I shall be. Do we have an agenda? Food, drink, sheep, PVRs, AOB. > Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a > small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... > and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... One jolly French onion man would frequently wander into our French lessons at school and speak to our French teacher in Welsh. SignatureRob Bannister >> Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a >> small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... >> and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... > >One jolly French onion man would frequently wander into our French >lessons at school and speak to our French teacher in Welsh. Sure he wasn't speaking in Breton? Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>> Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a >>> small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... >>> and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... >> One jolly French onion man would frequently wander into our French >> lessons at school and speak to our French teacher in Welsh. > Sure he wasn't speaking in Breton? This is likely, because the French onion men did, in fact, come from Brittany: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/23/wonion23.xml and Breton is close enough to Welsh for mutual understanding. The modern equivalent of the French onion man is surely those "French markets" which seem to be fairly ubiquitous these days at least in London and the south-east. In various places I know, on several weeks of the year these appear - a few stalls selling French cheese, sausages, bread, and various other products, fairly standard wherever they are. There must now be several teams of these people who travel around south-east England doing this, from the addresses on their vans, they come from Normandy i.e. just across the channel. Matthew Huntbach >>>Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a >>>small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sure he wasn't speaking in Breton? OK, I assume the onion man spoke Breton and my teacher spoke Welsh. They pretended they understood each other. SignatureRob Bannister > > Don't be so certain that wasn't the case... mind you, when I was a > > small child we lived in S Wales and coal came from just up the road... > > and we had genuine jolly French Onion Men on bikes... > > One jolly French onion man would frequently wander into our French > lessons at school and speak to our French teacher in Welsh. As folk have pointed out below, jolly onion men, who came across the channel from Brittany on fishing boats, would speak Breton which is mutually inteligible with Welsh - confirmed by my Grandad who was a sea captain and had both Breton- and Welsh-speaking seamen. (As an Isle of Wight man who couldn't understand a word of either group, but they got on just fine). Last time I went to a French market - in Salisbury - there was a genuine Jolly Onion Man there - bike, stripey jersey and all, and I bought some v superior shallots from him. However, I suspect the dead hand of 'heritage' may have been involved.... DC > Last time I went to a French market - in Salisbury - there was a > genuine Jolly Onion Man there - bike, stripey jersey and all, and I > bought some v superior shallots from him. However, I suspect the dead > hand of 'heritage' may have been involved.... Erm. Dead, or dread? > > Last time I went to a French market - in Salisbury - there was a > > genuine Jolly Onion Man there - bike, stripey jersey and all, and I > > bought some v superior shallots from him. However, I suspect the dead > > hand of 'heritage' may have been involved.... > > Erm. Dead, or dread? Dead, Linz. It's a bit like the Dead Hand of Quality Managment, but with a tea room. DC > He used to come round with his donkey and cart, crying "Rag bone. Rag > bone." Hazel Grove Cheshire in the 40s. The rag and bone man that came down our road in England certainly shouted something, but I don't think anyone knew what it was. Occasionally, you could catch something that sounded like "aahn". SignatureRob Bannister On 30 Aug, 15:31, Peter Moylan <pe...@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> wrote: > >> Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> > >> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his > horse-drawn cart collecting empty bottles. A bit like a stept-o. Perhaps I should have written bottlo. My daughter, who has lived in various parts of Aus for the last five years assures me that this is the standard abbreviation for "bottle shop" (which appears to be the Australian form for "Off licence"). However, I'm not about to question the word of a native Aussie. -- WH >>> Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> >>> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Not quite the same thing. The bottle-o used to come along in his >horse-drawn cart collecting empty bottles. A bit like a stept-o. Mayhap, but bottle-o is used now for the shop, often seen as an adjunct to a pub, club or tavern. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >> Mike Lyle wrote, in <46d45d2d$0$16362$88260...@free.teranews.com> >> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:29:18 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I think the AusE term is "bottle-o". In MyAusE, a bottle-o is a collector of bottles for recycling; but I'm not at all sure I remember ever having seen one. Or heard one: "Bottle-oh!" is what they yelled. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Never heard "Brannie". The stuff is, as I've reported in AUE before now, > a very boring sweet brown pickle: the Brits are so unimaginative in > these matters that the economy can support are several lookalike brands. > Its only point of interest is that the ingredients list "rutabaga", a > word nobody but me understands: this is because all right-minded people > hate swede. Which is, no doubt, why they are welcome to Sweden. (Of course everyone knows that "a pickle" defaults to a different meaning in AmE, yes?) SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >Never heard "Brannie". The stuff is, as I've reported in AUE before now, >a very boring sweet brown pickle: the Brits are so unimaginative in >these matters that the economy can support are several lookalike brands. >Its only point of interest is that the ingredients list "rutabaga", a >word nobody but me understands: this is because all right-minded people >hate swede. I got rutabaga skins for the clothes that I wear. Rutabaga extract to wash my hair. Rutabaga vapor instead of gas. Rutabaga paper to wipe my ... nose. Do the rutabaga boogie. Come along with me. With a fresh rutabaga pulled right off the tree. Do the rutabaga boogie. Do it all the time. With a fresh rutabaga pulled right off the vine. - Paul Selasky >> CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is >> pronounced "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. Shouldn't that be the kinety set? >> OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of >> a car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > horse or vehicle is the kerb side, and the off side is the outside; > so the offside is the driver's side. OK, I'll admit my ignorance. Doesn't everyone mount a horse from the left? My memories from old Westerns don't help here, because they usually showed "nose to kerb" parking. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. [...] > OK, I'll admit my ignorance. Doesn't everyone mount a horse from the > left? From which side does one mount a sheep? [...] SignatureLes > [...] > >> OK, I'll admit my ignorance. Doesn't everyone mount a horse from the >> left? > > From which side does one mount a sheep? I'm not sure that there are any offside rules for sheep. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > [...] > >> OK, I'll admit my ignorance. Doesn't everyone mount a horse from >> the left? > > From which side does one mount a sheep? The side one gets down from. > [...] >> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> [...] ITYM wool. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > ITYM wool. Not from the Duck-billed Sheep of the Riverina, I don't. They're all down, there, over as well as under, and they wagga big tail behind them. >>>> [...] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > down, there, over as well as under, and they wagga big tail behind > them. Of the eierlegende Wollmilchsau quite to remain silent. SignatureLes >>>>> [...] >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Of the eierlegende Wollmilchsau quite to remain silent. Wow! They can't compete with that feat of genetic engineering even in Derby. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> [...] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >down, there, over as well as under, and they wagga big tail behind >them. Do you suppose Australians or New Zealanders find the name "Dag Hammarskjold" comical? >>>>> [...] >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Do you suppose Australians or New Zealanders find the name "Dag >Hammarskjold" comical? Yes, we do. Before I knew it as a term for sheep befoulment, "dag" was used for bit-of-a-loser types. Similar to "nerd" but without any implied special abilities. An unfashionable fashion choice would be "a bit daggy". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >special abilities. An unfashionable fashion choice would be "a bit >daggy". My first encounter with it was in _Footrot Flats_, which I find incredibly funny. On 29 Aug 2007, Peter Moylan wrote >>> CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is >>> pronounced "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the left? My memories from old Westerns don't help here, because > they usually showed "nose to kerb" parking. I wonder how true it is that horses are mounted from the left because swords were worn on the left by the majority (right-handed swordsmen); if mounted from the right, the sword would have to be swung over the horse somehow. I have no idea if it's a myth, but it's consistent with other probably the most common explanations as to why the UK drives on the left. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On 29 Aug 2007, HVS wrote > I have no idea if it's a myth, but it's consistent with other > probably the most common explanations as to why the UK drives on > the left. The intended meaning of that manages, I think, to scruffle through its multitude of crass editing errors, but I know: I really should proofread more carefully. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 29 Aug 2007, Peter Moylan wrote [...]>>> As others have said, the authors are confused. The near side of >>> a horse or vehicle is the kerb side, and the off side is the >>> outside; so the offside is the driver's side. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > probably the most common explanations as to why the UK drives on the > left. I believe it's at least partly true as to mounting horses. But standardisation was a good idea when more than one person was going to be mounting at the same time: imagine a crowded stable yard first thing in the morning. It would have become an ingrained habit in any case, because you'd have been silly to get on and off, or in and out of a carriage, on the traffic side. The nearside-only convention took a knock during the Zulu wars, though: the Prince Imperial was killed by enraged locals solely, one is told, because his horse wouldn't let him mount from the right. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com On 29 Aug, 13:50, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > On 29 Aug 2007, Peter Moylan wrote > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > locals solely, one is told, because his horse wouldn't let him mount > from the right. Ah, now this reminds me of something I read as a lad, that claimed that Indi^H^H^H Native Americans mounted their horses from the right, which caused confusion when they tried to mount horses "liberated" from the white-eyes - the horses didn't like it and acted up. Any Old West experts around to confirm or deny this one? Mike M >that Indi^H^H^H Native Americans mounted their horses from the right, >which caused confusion when they tried to mount horses "liberated" >from the white-eyes - the horses didn't like it and acted up. > >Any Old West experts around to confirm or deny this one? According to anthropologist Clark Wissler, this is true. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/1/4/254.pdf on page 2. The one striking Indian variation is the habit of mounting on the right side of the horse instead of the left as do Americans and Europeans. The comparative data on this point make it clear that if left to their inclinations right-handed people will mount from the right. Historical data show the European method to have been first introduced into cavalry tactics by Vespasian and to have survived to this day because the sword is worn on the left side. The difference, therefore, is not due to motor differences in the Indian but, like most other culture differences, to historical factors. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:29:21 -0000, Mike M <mikmooney@googlemail.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >introduced into cavalry tactics by Vespasian and to have survived to >this day because the sword is worn on the left side. Is this saying that in Vespasian's day the cavalry wore their swords on the left? I'd have said that in those days the way the cavalry mounted wasn't going to be of much interest to the commander. First, they were likely to have been a bunch of foreigners anyway, and second, what would have been important was how they fought, not which side they dressed. And in passing, the Roman legionary carried his gladius on the right, not the left, and I's wonder whether sticking a chap on a horse would have persuaded him to change his style. Come to think of it, I have never heard of a Roman cavalry sword, or even if they used swords when on horseback. I could well be missing the point. I fell into a dream about how this might have been. >The difference, >therefore, is not due to motor differences in the Indian but, like >most other culture differences, to historical factors. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > The one striking Indian variation is the habit of mounting on the > right side of the horse instead of the left as do Americans and > Europeans. The comparative data on this point make it clear that if > left to their inclinations right-handed people will mount from the > right. This surprises me. Right-handed people are almost always "right- legged" (and vice-versa), e.g. if asked to kick a football, they will instictively swing their right leg at it. As a "righty", I think I'd throw my right leg over the horse first (not that I'd actually go anywhere near one of the vicious beasts, but that's another story). Mike M >> The one striking Indian variation is the habit of mounting on the >> right side of the horse instead of the left as do Americans and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >(not that I'd actually go anywhere near one of the vicious beasts, >but that's another story). Vicious? Hmm. Anyway, you are right about a righty swinging the right leg over, but the reason, I think, is because the mounting motion requires some strength in the leg that provides the push to raise your body high enough to swing it over the back. >> The one striking Indian variation is the habit of mounting on the >> right side of the horse instead of the left as do Americans and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > legged" (and vice-versa), e.g. if asked to kick a football, they will > instictively swing their right leg at it. > > Mike M Unless they are Left-footers. Cheers, Sage >On 29 Aug, 15:39, tony cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >(not that I'd actually go anywhere near one of the vicious beasts, >but that's another story). I would guess, but I could be wrong, that most here aren't horsey in much of a practical sense and don't have equine history, but that most do have a history of bicycling (however they render the word). Now from which side did you, or do you still, mount your bikes? It seems to me that the general principle of bicycle-mounting is probably quite similar, getting the leg over as it were, while holding on to the ears/bars/reins. I mount both a bicycle and a motorcycle from the left (which may be another way of arriving at the phrase 'near side'), and could this be a vestige of some ancient predisposition to approach a mammoth or aurochs or horse or donkey likewise? SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >I mount both a bicycle and a motorcycle from the left (which may be >another way of arriving at the phrase 'near side'), and could this be a >vestige of some ancient predisposition to approach a mammoth or aurochs >or horse or donkey likewise? I mount a bicycle or motorcycle from the side where the kickstand is attached. When the bike - either type - is stopped with the kickstand down, the bike will lean that way. A bicycle can be mounted from the opposite side easily enough, but a heavy cruiser motorcycle is likely to tip if you don't mount from the kickstand side. The rider wants one foot firmly planted in the mounting maneuver. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:19:58 +0100, Paul Wolff ><bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >to tip if you don't mount from the kickstand side. The rider wants >one foot firmly planted in the mounting maneuver. I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle with it walking to heel, so to speak, it is on my right, and so when I lightly leap aboard it is from the left. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle >with it walking to heel, so to speak, it is on my right, and so when I >lightly leap aboard it is from the left. When I was a kid, I wanted to try the American Oater method of mounting a horse: the jump from the saloon roof. I gave up on the idea once I actually saw a pommel. I did have many similar experiences, though. The stand-up, quick pedal on a bicycle when the chain slipped. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >>called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >mounting a horse: the jump from the saloon roof. I gave up on the >idea once I actually saw a pommel. If you enjoy "oaters" and comedy, _Rustler's Rhapsody_ is both. The hero's sidekick jumps from a barn loft door, onto a saddle sitting on a sawhorse. Very funny. >I did have many similar experiences, though. The stand-up, quick >pedal on a bicycle when the chain slipped. >> I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >> called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I did have many similar experiences, though. The stand-up, quick > pedal on a bicycle when the chain slipped. I feel your pain. I never did understand why men's/boy's bikes had a cross-bar. Cheers, Sage [...] > I feel your pain. I never did understand why men's/boy's bikes had a > cross-bar. All else being equal, it makes for a more rigid frame. I assume that women's/girls' bikes didn't have one because the deadlier were expected to wear skirts; and, in any case, ladylike bicycling is less likely to result in mechanical failure. SignatureLes > > I feel your pain. I never did understand why men's/boy's bikes had a > > cross-bar. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wear skirts; and, in any case, ladylike bicycling is less likely to result > in mechanical failure. Prevention of failure isn't the only issue; flexing of the frame consumes energy you'd rather use for moving forward. SignatureMark Brader "You can't [compare] computer memory and recall Toronto with human memory and recall. It's comparing msb@vex.net apples and bicycles." -- Ed Knowles >>> I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >>> called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I feel your pain. I never did understand why men's/boy's bikes had a >cross-bar. It makes for a stronger frame. It's not that the boy's frame has the crossbar added, it's that the girl's frame has the crossbar removed. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>> I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >>>> called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >the crossbar added, it's that the girl's frame has the crossbar >removed. Generally the crossbar has been replaced by a tube that slopes down from the front to the back so as to maintain adequate rigidity. Styles vary: http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=ladies+bicycle&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 or http://tinyurl.com/2qkx6o SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>> I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >>>>> called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Generally the crossbar has been replaced by a tube that slopes down >from the front to the back so as to maintain adequate rigidity. Key word is "adequate". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>> I take your point about the kickstand -- which I think I would once have >>>>> called a prop stand -- but still note that if I am leading a bicycle [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=ladies+bicycle&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 > or http://tinyurl.com/2qkx6o I did think of the sloped tube when I wrote my post. I seem to recall the tube being introduced in the UK by Raleigh back in the late 50s. Cheers, Sage >> I did have many similar experiences, though. The stand-up, quick >> pedal on a bicycle when the chain slipped. > > I feel your pain. I never did understand why men's/boy's bikes had a > cross-bar. So you'll have something to hit when you miss the pointy bit at the front of the seat. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> The one striking Indian variation is the habit of mounting on the >>> right side of the horse instead of the left as do Americans and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > vestige of some ancient predisposition to approach a mammoth or aurochs > or horse or donkey likewise? Isn't that dangerous in countries that drive on the right? SignatureRob Bannister >> I mount both a bicycle and a motorcycle from the left (which may be >> another way of arriving at the phrase 'near side'), and could this >> be a vestige of some ancient predisposition to approach a mammoth >> or aurochs or horse or donkey likewise? > > Isn't that dangerous in countries that drive on the right? Good point. I have essentially zero experience with motorcycles. I mount a horse from the left because I've been told that horses are trained that way, and that's nothing to do with traffic because I've never ridden a horse on a road; only in the bush or on farms. I mount a bicycle from the left because that's how I was taught. I was going to say that that's because my right side is stronger. When mounting from the left the left foot just has to stay in place, while the right leg has to swing vigorously enough to lift the body over the bike. (My first bicycle, at age 10, was a full-sized one - 28" wheels - because it was a refurbished one that used to belong to my grandfather. I never learnt to ride a child's bicycle.) On reflection, though, the important thing was to mount from the kerb side so as to be safe in traffic. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. [...] > The nearside-only convention took > a knock during the Zulu wars, though: the Prince Imperial was killed > by enraged locals solely, one is told, because his horse wouldn't let > him mount from the right. The locals, you understand, were already enraged --pre-incensed, you could say. It wasn't that they were particularly stung by the horse's narrow-mindedness: even Zulus, after all, know that all horses are narrow-minded, even hide-bound. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com On 29 Aug 2007, Mike Lyle wrote > [...] >> The nearside-only convention took [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the horse's narrow-mindedness: even Zulus, after all, know that > all horses are narrow-minded, even hide-bound. Age withers not the punster, wot? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > I wonder how true it is that horses are mounted from the left > because swords were worn on the left by the majority (right-handed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > probably the most common explanations as to why the UK drives on the > left. But you mount (get in) your cars from the right. We do it from the left. I don't know whether there's any connection, but when you ride on the left, you meet oncoming riders sword hand to sword hand, while when you ride on the right, you meet them shield hand to shield hand. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Of course, over the first 10^-10 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |seconds and 10^-30 cubic Palo Alto, CA 94304 |centimeters it averages out to |zero, but when you look in kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |detail.... (650)857-7572 | Philip Morrison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ [...] > But you mount (get in) your cars from the right. We do it from the > left. Yes, but that's only the driver, read "chauffeur": the passenger is the one who counts in this transaction. (Cf women's buttons: so placed as to be operable by the lady's-maid while men, even gentlemen, were expected to manipulate their own.) In the very earliest days of the German air arm, pilots were mere chauffeurs, and therefore not officers: it was the observer or gunner who commanded the machine. > I don't know whether there's any connection, but when you ride on the > left, you meet oncoming riders sword hand to sword hand, while when > you ride on the right, you meet them shield hand to shield hand. It's generally believed, and makes some sense. Other posts refer. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is >>> pronounced "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >left? My memories from old Westerns don't help here, because they >usually showed "nose to kerb" parking. It's usual to mount a horse from the left in North American "Western" riding, but many modern trainers will spend considerable time and effort "balancing" the horse so that it will accept being mounted equally well from either side. Ditto for leading, tacking up, and in fact, any activity involving human and horse. >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > > Yes; but I don't think I've actually heard anybody /speak/ it. Perhaps it's old-fashioned now, because I can certainly remember hearing it, and I even used the term this week. Fortunately, my American friends are used to hearing me use odd terms. >>FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY >>DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > as a component, and I used to live in southern Wales, where a seaweed > (laver bread) is eaten, and great faggots are made. My dad used to call them savoury ducks, but I don't think he would have thought seaweed was a good component. Fran > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > > > Yes; but I don't think I've actually heard anybody /speak/ it. Humble Pie (the late-60's, early-70s British - but American soundalike - rock band, featuring former Small Face Steve Marriott) recorded a song called "Buttermilk Boy", that featured the lyric: "And I heard tell you can't even get insured "On a clapped-out, forty-four, drop-head Ford". When I heard that I thought it sounded VERY American (anything about cars always did - wipe the windows, check the oil, dollar gas). Mike M > > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "And I heard tell you can't even get insured > "On a clapped-out, forty-four, drop-head Ford". Lyric pages say it is '45, not '44. > When I heard that I thought it sounded VERY American (anything about > cars always did - wipe the windows, check the oil, dollar gas). You didn't know that "clapped out" is British-only slang, then (meaning "worn out"); Merriam Webster marks it as "1946, chiefly British." I never heard of "drop head," which MW marks as "1932, British." I found the song "Buttermilk Boy" and noticed "Before she lets her knickers down" as the most un-American line in there. Oh, and "insured" and "Ford" don't rhyme in the US, but since a lot of Brits say "shore" for "sure," maybe they say "inshored" for "insured"? No problem with "I heard tell," though, for old-fashioned folksiness. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux An American living in the Netherlands >> > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Lyric pages say it is '45, not '44. Ford switched over to military vehicles in 1942 and didn't resume production of civilian vehicles until 1945. A 1944 drop-head would have looked like this: http://au.geocities.com/leonheynders/ SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>>>>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > http://au.geocities.com/leonheynders/ Henry Ford Was A Fascist by David Rovics Ford built tanks for the Nazis And the Nazis used those tanks To kill off lots of soldiers In the U.S. Army ranks Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist And a nasty one was he He'd build tanks for anyone For the proper fee Henry Ford spoke to his lackeys And he said, "isn't this great? "We'll attack our enemies "And we'll retaliate!" Henry Ford was a fascist And a cunning liar, too A brownshirt with a swastika Draped in red, white and blue Henry Ford spoke to his workers And he said, "you dare not strike! "You must be patriotic "And take on my Third Reich!" Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist \ And he had not a care About the dying soldiers That made him a billionaire Ford built tanks for the Nazis And he built many more To kill off lots of peasants In Peru and Salvador Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist I heard that when he died The last words to leave his lips Was "arbeit macht frei" The dollar was his icon On whichever shore And Henry's only motto Was "make money and make war" Yes, Henry Ford was a fascist That's all I have to say I will spit on Henry's rotting grave Until my dying day Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower >> > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >"worn out"); Merriam Webster marks it as "1946, chiefly British." I >never heard of "drop head," which MW marks as "1932, British." "Clapped out" is common in Canada. "Drop-head" isn't. >I found the song "Buttermilk Boy" and noticed "Before she lets her >knickers down" as the most un-American line in there. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >No problem with "I heard tell," though, for old-fashioned folksiness. > > > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > No problem with "I heard tell," though, for old-fashioned folksiness. No surprises there. Steve Marriott was an odd one for switching between "cockney geezer" and *his* idea of what a macho American was supposed to sound like. Listen to his pronunciation of the word "afternoon" on the verses of "Lazy Sunday" - long "a" at the start of the song, short "a" by the end. And he even sang "my skin is white, but my soul is black" - apparently without irony - on one of the later Humble Pie numbers. For the masterclass in Marriott-speak try the HP live album "Rockin' The Fillmore" - the spoken intros are all gore blimey, the singing is Otis Redding wannabe. Mike M > You didn't know that "clapped out" is British-only slang, then > (meaning "worn out"); No, it certainly isn't British-only. Many of the other terms in this thread are, but not that one. It's used in most parts of the English-speaking world. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > > You didn't know that "clapped out" is British-only slang, then > > (meaning "worn out"); > > No, it certainly isn't British-only. Many of the other terms in this > thread are, but not that one. It's used in most parts of the > English-speaking world. I know what you mean, but at that point in the conversation, I really was talking about a dichotomy between Britain and America. Whether the Australians, South Africans, HongKongese etc, used this word as well wasn't the point. I neither knew nor cared whether the word was used in those places, I just knew it wasn't in the US. I notice that the dictionary entry I quoted said "chiefly British" and you got me to wondering exactly how they define that. MW11 say, under Usage Notes: The adverb chiefly precedes a label when the word has some currency outside the specified region, ... The label British indicates that a word or sense is current in the United Kingdom or in more than one nation of the Commonwealth (as the United Kingdom, Australia, and Canada). That will probably make some of you howl, but say la vee. For purposes of the Merriam-Webster entries, British can mean Australian. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> "And I heard tell you can't even get insured ... I >never heard of "drop head," which MW marks as "1932, British." >... And still current - Rolls Royce makes a car it calls a 'Drophead Coupe'. SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... > >> > >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > >> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And still current - Rolls Royce makes a car it calls a 'Drophead > Coupe'. Noting that "Coupe" in UK English is pronounced "Coupé". SignatureDavid ===== > mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Noting that "Coupe" in UK English is pronounced "Coupé". Not if you're talking about dessert, of course. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not if you're talking about dessert, of course. Does Rolls Royce make pudding? Cool. SignatureDavid ===== > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > > > Noting that "Coupe" in UK English is pronounced "Coupé". > > > > Not if you're talking about dessert, of course. > > Does Rolls Royce make pudding? Cool. We've all heard of royce pudding. >>laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We've all heard of royce pudding. <applause> SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) trio@euronet.nl had it ... > > laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We've all heard of royce pudding. I had to say it out loud before I got it. But after that: LOL. SignatureDavid ===== > trio@euronet.nl had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > LOL. Do they still make Arctic rolls? SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... >>> And still current - Rolls Royce makes a car it calls a 'Drophead >>> Coupe'. >> >> Noting that "Coupe" in UK English is pronounced "Coupé". Another of those pronunciation differences that go unnoticed until someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little juice coop" at the time the song came out. > Not if you're talking about dessert, of course. That would be the coupe de glace, I presume. Not to be confused with "tondre le gazon". SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little juice > coop" at the time the song came out. Me too! It wasn't until I acquired a Beach Boys LP that I understood. And fun, fun, fun was all very well but i had no idea what Daddy took away. >> Not if you're talking about dessert, of course. > > That would be the coupe de glace, I presume. <applause> Not to be confused with > "tondre le gazon". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Another of those pronunciation differences that go unnoticed until >> someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And fun, fun, fun was all very well but i had no idea what Daddy > took away. Wasn't it a sea-bird? By the way, my spelling checker objects to your "LP", but I can make it acceptable by changing the dictionary to en-US. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> Another of those pronunciation differences that go unnoticed until >>> someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Wasn't it a sea-bird? In case you really don't know, it was her T-Bird, a slangy term for a Thunderbird (by Ford). >>>>Another of those pronunciation differences that go unnoticed until >>>>someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In case you really don't know, it was her T-Bird, a slangy term for a > Thunderbird (by Ford). Thanks, but I did eventually work it out and I expect Peter did too. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >someone points them out. I could make no sense at all of "little juice >coop" at the time the song came out. Q: Why does a chicken coop have 2 doors? A: Because if it had 4 doors it would be a sedan. >> >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >When I heard that I thought it sounded VERY American (anything about >cars always did - wipe the windows, check the oil, dollar gas). I've certainly seen 'drop-head' and 'fixed-head' coupes in motoring magazines or adverts relatively recently, and they were the BrE terms when I was younger. I'd think that 'convertible' is a relatively recent (in my lifetime) import. I see that OED dates the motor version of 'convertible' as follows: "1918 Webster Add., Convertible a., changeable from a closed to an open style;said of an automobile body. 1936 Branham Automobile Reference Book 15 Convertible Coupe Roadster. 1942 E. DALY House without Door (1945) xi. 120 A second-hand Ford convertible coupé" I wonder if these references are all American? SignatureRobin Herts, England In alt.usage.english, Robin Bignall wrote: >>> >>DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >when I was younger. I'd think that 'convertible' is a relatively >recent (in my lifetime) import. The manufacturers now seem to like "cabriolet". SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England On 28 Aug, 19:29, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. > > Never heard of. Probably the good folk of Colden Common yanking Mr Gliedt's chain. > > BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a > > restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: > > See Harvey on this. Both words are normal. If I wanted to reserve a table at a restaurant, I'd probably talk about "making a reservation", but when phoning the restaurant, I'd say "I'd like to book a table". > > CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System > > (this is not available in the United States). [...] > > Experts have spoken on this. Now let the idiots have their say - This is universally found in company "phone-system manuals", but I doubt if one-in-a-hundred readers understand its meaning. > > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > > tonight". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > English" by those very funny people whose name just won't come to me > (Meera Syal, et al.). AKA "Goodness Gracious Me" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodness_Gracious_Me_(TV_&_radio) Meera: "I'll just have a vindaloo". Kulvinder: "No - choose something really blaaand". Seriously though, Chinky = yes, Nosh = yes, Chinky Nosh = no. > > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced > > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. > > Not ordinary speech, but a technical term. We've previously had occasion > to speak severely to N Americans about their odd use of "oi" when > representing OtherE accents: kindly desist. cf "Moi-ray Parpins" > > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. > > Not ordinary language, but common in placenames. Needs care though. Downs are Hills, but a Down is a plateau. > > DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). > > Yes; but I don't think I've actually heard anybody /speak/ it. Drop-top is more usual - or Cabrio these days (since they all have roll-bars). > > DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A petrol or electricity powered generator is called err, a generator (whooda thunk it). > > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY > > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain > > seaweed. > I do know that "savoury duck" is used for a faggot in some books, so I > suppose it must be used in some places. It's a round sort of patty thing > the size of a child's fist and wrapped in mesentery (is that right?). > Good ones are delicious, and bad ones are awful. Never heard of seaweed > as a component, and I used to live in southern Wales, where a seaweed > (laver bread) is eaten, and great faggots are made. There goes that chain again. > > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". > > Way obsolete. Unheard for a century or two. Yes, it must be three hundred years since I heard it. > > STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. This is a term used by English > > bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. > > Never heard "standing account"; "deposit account" yes. Though I do have a "Standing Order" for my "Savings Account". -- WH >>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. > > Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A petrol or > electricity powered generator is called err, a generator (whooda thunk > it). Not quite true. "Dynamo" was in common parlance for the thing in a car before they became "alternators". SignatureRob Bannister > >>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not quite true. "Dynamo" was in common parlance for the thing in a car > before they became "alternators". That must be some time ago - I've only ever known those as an alternator (and I go back some way). -- WH >> >>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >That must be some time ago - I've only ever known those as an >alternator (and I go back some way). You can't go back too long if you don't remember generators in cars. >>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >>> Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That must be some time ago - I've only ever known those as an > alternator (and I go back some way). I'm pretty sure that my first car (1970s) didn't have an alternator. Direct current only, and you had to drive the car quite a distance to recharge a flat battery. My present car recovers quickly from a flat battery, but only if it gets a jump-start from another car. The stupid thing can't be started by rolling it down a hill. If I ever get another car, it will have a manual shift. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >>>> Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Direct current only, and you had to drive the car quite a distance to >recharge a flat battery. I consider 30 years ago to be "pretty far back", though I am surprised to hear that a 70s car had a generator. >My present car recovers quickly from a flat battery, but only if it gets >a jump-start from another car. The stupid thing can't be started by >rolling it down a hill. If I ever get another car, it will have a manual >shift. rat@atatatat.com had it ... > >>>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. > >>>> Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I consider 30 years ago to be "pretty far back", though I am surprised > to hear that a 70s car had a generator. My first car (a 1975 Morris 1300 estate bought in 1978) had a dynamo. These had the advantage of being fixable without specialist equipment. SignatureDavid ===== On 01 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote > rat@atatatat.com had it ... >> I consider 30 years ago to be "pretty far back", though I am >> surprised to hear that a 70s car had a generator. > > My first car (a 1975 Morris 1300 estate bought in 1978) had a > dynamo. So did my mid-1970s Renault 4, bought in 1983. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 01 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote >> rat@atatatat.com had it ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >So did my mid-1970s Renault 4, bought in 1983. My Audi 80 1972-1975 model bought in 1973 had an alternator. That model was sold in the US as the Audi Fox. The Haynes manual for the car, published 1976, has a glossary listing the equivalent "English" and "American" terms for car components. Enjoy! English American ------------------------------ Accelerator Gas pedal Alternator Generator (AC) Anti-roll bar Stabiliser or sway bar Battery Energizer Bonnet (engine cover) Hood Boot lid Trunk lid Boot (luggage compartment) Trunk Bottom gear 1st gear Bulkhead Firewall Cam follower or tappet Valve lifter or tappet Carburettor Carburetor Catch Latch Choke/venturi Barrel Circlip Snap ring Clearance Lash Crownwheel Ring gear (of differential) Disc (brake) Rotor/disk Drop arm Pitman arm Drop head coupe Convertible Dynamo Generator (DC) Earth (electrical) Ground Engineer's blue Prussion blue [sic] Estate car Station wagon Exhaust manifold Header Fast back (Coupe) Hard top Fault finding/diagnosis Trouble shooting Float chamber Float bowl Free-play Lash Freewheel Coast Gudgeon pin Piston pin or wrist pin Gearchange Shift Gearbox Transmission Halfshaft Axle-shaft Handbrake Parking brake Hood Soft top Hot spot Heat riser Indicator Turn signal Interior light Dome lamp Layshaft (of gearbox) Counter shaft Leading shoe (of brake) Primary shoe Locks Latches Motorway Freeway, turnpike etc. Number plate Licence plate Paraffin Kerosene Petrol Gasoline Petrol tank Gas tank 'Pinking' 'Pinging' Propellor shaft Driveshaft Quarter light Quarter window Retread Recap Reverse Back-up Rocker cover Valve cover Roof rack Car-top carrier Saloon Sedan Seized Frozen Side indicator lights Side marker lights Side light Parking light Silencer Muffler Spanner Wrench Sill panel (beneath doors) Rocker panel Split cotter (for valve spring cap) Lock (for valve spring retainer) Split pin Cotter pin Steering arm Spindle arm Sump Oil pan Tab washer Tang; lock Tailgate Liftgate Tappet Valve lifter Thrust bearing Throw-out bearing Top gear High Trackrod (of steering) Tie-rod (or connecting rod) Trailing shoe (of brake) Secondary shoe Transmission Whole drive line Tyre Tire Van Panel wagon/van Vice Vise Wheel nut Lug nut Windscreen Windshield Wing/mudguard Fender SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>On 01 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote >>> rat@atatatat.com had it ... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >The Haynes manual for the car, The rear cover of the book has a series of quotes "What the press say...". On eof the quotes is: ...written for the intelligent owner who wants to understand the construction and working of his car, and who is not afraid to pick up a spanner and dismantle it. Is there anyone out there who has ever dismantled a spanner[1]? [1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined by Encarta as: home maintenance tool used to grasp and turn: a hand ... tool with fixed or movable jaws, used to seize, turn, or twist objects such as nuts and bolts SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >by Encarta as: > > home maintenance tool used to grasp and turn: a hand ... tool > with fixed or movable jaws, used to seize, turn, or twist > objects such as nuts and bolts I have always thought of the BrE "spanner" as the equivalent of the AmE "crescent wrench". The above definition would cover many types of wrenches, and not just a crescent wrench. This is an AmE crescent wrench: http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/297914/2/istockphoto_297914_c rescent_wrench.jpg When I Google (images) for "spanner", I get both the crescent wrench style and http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direct/dbimage/50189268/Combination_Spanner.jpg which I would call a "box wrench" (with a box end and an open box end) For an interesting view of various types of wrenches, see: http://home.neb.rr.com/mvwcnews/womc.html Most of these are what I would call "pipe wrenches" or "monkey wrenches". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >>by Encarta as: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >This is an AmE crescent wrench: >http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/297914/2/istockphoto_297914_c rescent_wrench.jpg That's a BrE "adjustable spanner". >When I Google (images) for "spanner", I get both the crescent wrench >style and >http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direct/dbimage/50189268/Combination_Spanner.jpg >which I would call a "box wrench" (with a box end and an open box end) That's a BrE spanner (to be specific, it's a combination spanner with a ring and an open end), you can also get spanners where the two ends are different sizes, both open or both ring. A box spanner is (in BrE) something else entirely: http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/MEL9.html >For an interesting view of various types of wrenches, see: >http://home.neb.rr.com/mvwcnews/womc.html >Most of these are what I would call "pipe wrenches" or "monkey >wrenches". I too would call those "pipe wrenches" or "monkey wrenches" or "stillsons" (it having gone generic in the UK). What do you call these? http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>>[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >>>by Encarta as: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >What do you call these? >http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg Lock jaw, or lockjaw, pliers. Not a wrench at all. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Nick Atty wrote, in <7pvid3tkdpm35j60uuc3vhp1nv43ltn5mb@4ax.com> on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:09:57 +0100: > What do you call these? > http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg I have heard them called Plumber's Friend. SignatureNick Spalding >Nick Atty wrote, in <7pvid3tkdpm35j60uuc3vhp1nv43ltn5mb@4ax.com> > on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:09:57 +0100: > >> What do you call these? >> http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg >I have heard them called Plumber's Friend. To this American that would be called a Channel Lock, a trade name almost become generic. A "plumber's friend" is one of those sticks with a suction cup on one end, also called a "plunger". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > Nick Atty wrote, in <7pvid3tkdpm35j60uuc3vhp1nv43ltn5mb@4ax.com> > on Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:09:57 +0100: > >> What do you call these? http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg > I have heard them called Plumber's Friend. I call them water pump pliers, as in the link. This is a plumber's mate, or basin spanner/wrench (wonderful things): <http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Plumbing/11in%20Adjustable%20Basin%2 0Wrench_t.jpg> or http://tinyurl.com/2elp5b SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >>>by Encarta as: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >I too would call those "pipe wrenches" or "monkey wrenches" or >"stillsons" (it having gone generic in the UK). Like trousers, pants and scissors, "Stilsons" are sometimes (at least in UK and Australia) referred to as the single item "a pair of Stilsons". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > What do you call these? > http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg I've got something like that and I call it a wrench. I have also mainly used "wrench" for "adjustable spanner", although I'm familiar with both terms. A normal "spanner" is definitely not adjustable, but I'm liable to call anything else a "wrench". The use of "pliers" in the url above does seem odd - I suppose the thing does have some things in common with pliers, but it doesn't fit my mental image. SignatureRob Bannister >> What do you call these? >> http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >does seem odd - I suppose the thing does have some things in common with >pliers, but it doesn't fit my mental image. I see the possibility of a short comedy film about a trans-African automobile race with a crew consisting of an American, a Brit, and an Australian. They are the fastest car in the competition, but constantly lose ground due to minor mechanical breakdowns that take too long to repair due to the inability of the three to communicate exactly which tool needs to be handed over, and which part of the vehicle needs repairing. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> What do you call these? >>> http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >exactly which tool needs to be handed over, and which part of the >vehicle needs repairing. It's brilliant isn't it? I'm working up to a theory that BrE avoids "wrench" because of the connotations of excessive force and violence that go with it. A monkey wrench being a notable exception and one that I think probably supports my theory. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>>What do you call these? >>>http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20Pump%20Pli ers.jpg [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > exactly which tool needs to be handed over, and which part of the > vehicle needs repairing. I'm sure it could be done, but I suspect that those sort of people know exactly which tool is required when - sort of like a nurse in an operating theatre. SignatureRob Bannister > What do you call these? > http://www.toolspot.co.uk/products/Adjustables/NWS%20German%20Water%20P > ump%20Pliers.jpg Those are slip-jaw pliers in the American Midwest. >>>[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >>>by Encarta as: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >A box spanner is (in BrE) something else entirely: >http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/MEL9.html My dear Mr. Attorney, those are *sockets*. One purchases a *socket set*, and it usually comes with a regular driver, a ratchet driver, and a few other accessories. I believe the term "socket wrench set" also exists. [snip] SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>>[1] BrE spanner = AmE wrench (only in the hand tool sense), defined >>>>by Encarta as: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >[snip] That's Dr Attorney to you (did I ever tell you about the time British Gas's marketing computer wrote to me as Dr Attorney?). We have socket sets. But a thing like a screwdriver, but ending in a nut-shaped opening, is a box spanner. To be a socket, it needs to have an interchangeable end. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >We have socket sets. But a thing like a screwdriver, but ending in a >nut-shaped opening, is a box spanner. To be a socket, it needs to have >an interchangeable end. Ah, you mean a "nut driver". Why didn't you say so? http://www.elexp.com/tol_1005.htm SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>We have socket sets. But a thing like a screwdriver, but ending in a >>nut-shaped opening, is a box spanner. To be a socket, it needs to have >>an interchangeable end. > >Ah, you mean a "nut driver". Why didn't you say so? >http://www.elexp.com/tol_1005.htm I recognize those. At the link Dr. Nick provided, I thought I was seeing interchangeable ends, but re-looking makes me think there things I've never seen before. They look horrible for *trying* to get a grip on, for one thing. SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>We have socket sets. But a thing like a screwdriver, but ending in a >>>nut-shaped opening, is a box spanner. To be a socket, it needs to have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > things I've never seen before. They look horrible for *trying* to get > a grip on, for one thing. http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn SignatureRay UK > http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn Extraordinary implements. Back in days before it became too hard to fix your own car, they look like what might have been meant when the manual said "Take special tool SxP312Z", which of course one never had, although I found a sledge hammer quite useful on occasion. SignatureRob Bannister >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn > >Extraordinary implements. Back in days before it became too hard to fix >your own car, they look like what might have been meant when the manual >said "Take special tool SxP312Z", which of course one never had, >although I found a sledge hammer quite useful on occasion. Yes, they look fairly useless for ordinary folk. Perhaps all Brits are auto mechanics. SignatureAl in St. Lou >>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Yes, they look fairly useless for ordinary folk. Perhaps all Brits are >auto mechanics. The company whose website is featured via that link is being in New Delhi, India. It offers "Complete Solutions for professional tyre shops". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, they look fairly useless for ordinary folk. Perhaps all Brits are > auto mechanics. I just watched the coverage of the Belgian Grand Prix, and it seemed to be that all the teams' engineers were British. Fran >>>>http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I just watched the coverage of the Belgian Grand Prix, and it seemed to be > that all the teams' engineers were British. Just for you, here is a list of teams and their bases. Ferrari - Italy Toro Rosso - Italy Sauber - Germany Toyota - Germany All the rest are UK based Renault Williams Red Bull Super Aguri Honda McLaren Spyker SignatureRay UK mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com had it ... > Just for you, here is a list of teams and their bases. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > McLaren > Spyker They are not infrequently seen on cross-channel ferries. Fleets of pantechnicons. SignatureDavid ===== >>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes, they look fairly useless for ordinary folk. Perhaps all Brits are > auto mechanics. I don't know about Brits, but getting a driver's license in Latvia and Germany, back in the 'forties, involved taking a course of the mechanics involved and passing a test on the acquired knowledge. I took such a course at the age of thirteen. Of course, cars were quite a bit simpler then, and one was expected to know how to handle a breakdown on the road. I have also rebuilt engines (MGTD) and manual transmissions (AH 100-6) since that time. Child's play. Tinkering with this and that to keep things running was a regular requirement for several of the cars I owned. SignatureSkitt >>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >that time. Child's play. Tinkering with this and that to keep things >running was a regular requirement for several of the cars I owned. Trouble is, they're pretty much tinker proof these days. If you open the bonnet of my 22-year-old Mercedes SL you can actually see the engine, but it's surrounded by gadgets of various sizes with tubes and/or wires leading to them and although I've also worked on engines and transmissions in the past, there's not a lot that can be fixed without a workshop. The newer coupe has a cover over the engine so that all you can see are two dipsticks and the filler caps for oil, water and washer fluid. Even the battery is inaccessible. The latest ones don't even have dipsticks. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > battery is inaccessible. The latest ones don't even have > dipsticks. Yeah, I know. I have to let one of my cars measure its own oil level and let me know if any and how much needs to be added. Of course, it complains automatically if the level ever gets to be 1.5 quarts low (capacity = 8.5 qt). My other car is not quite that smart, but it does not use any oil at all between 15K-mile services. SignatureSkitt > Yeah, I know. I have to let one of my cars measure its own oil level > and let me know if any and how much needs to be added. Of course, > it complains automatically if the level ever gets to be 1.5 quarts > low (capacity = 8.5 qt). Beware of such automated systems. On my daughter's Dell printer, I've found that the ink cartridge is good for about another 100 pages after the printer driver complains that the cartridge is empty. The rated capacity of a Dell ink cartridge is something like 30 pages, which is part of the reason why Dell printers appear to be so cheap. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> Yeah, I know. I have to let one of my cars measure its own oil level >> and let me know if any and how much needs to be added. Of course, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > capacity of a Dell ink cartridge is something like 30 pages, which is > part of the reason why Dell printers appear to be so cheap. There's no choice. No dipstick. It does complain as mentioned, though. It worried my wife to no end when it happened to her. I now make it measure the level now and then, and I add oil whenever it says it would like 1 quart. SignatureSkitt > >> Yeah, I know. I have to let one of my cars measure its own oil level > >> and let me know if any and how much needs to be added. Of course, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the level now and then, and I add oil whenever it says it would like 1 > quart. I can't even find the oil filler on my Dell printer. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Yeah, I know. I have to let one of my cars measure its own oil level >> and let me know if any and how much needs to be added. Of course, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > capacity of a Dell ink cartridge is something like 30 pages, which is > part of the reason why Dell printers appear to be so cheap. My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than replace the ink. SignatureRob Bannister > My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches > half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than > replace the ink. I've been told by umpteen different people that a laser printer is a better investment, despite the higher initial cost. I'll probably move in that direction after my present printer (HP880C) runs out of ink. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches >> half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >better investment, despite the higher initial cost. I'll probably move >in that direction after my present printer (HP880C) runs out of ink. They are not all that much higher in initial cost. I think I paid $120 Cdn for mine. >>> My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches >>> half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > They are not all that much higher in initial cost. I think I paid $120 > Cdn for mine. It is, however, well to be aware that the more expensive laser printers often have significantly lower cost per page for expendables. So price the cartridges before you buy a cheap one. Also be aware that some of the cheap laser printers won't work with operating systems other than Windows -- and possibly not all versions of Windows. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>> I've been told by umpteen different people that a laser printer is a >>> better investment, despite the higher initial cost. I'll probably [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > operating systems other than Windows -- and possibly not all versions > of Windows. The quality of the paper feed mechanism also varies significantly. The cheaper ones tend to stop working after a couple of years (not feeding at all or feeding several sheets at once). Bigger paper drawers (500-sheet) usually seem to indicate a more robust mechanism. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches >> half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > better investment, despite the higher initial cost. I'll probably move > in that direction after my present printer (HP880C) runs out of ink. I keep thinking the same thing. The prices of laser printers are coming down, but I don't use my printer so much now I'm retired. SignatureRob Bannister >> My Canon printer refuses to print when one of the cartridges reaches >> half empty. These days, it's cheaper to buy a new printer than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > better investment, despite the higher initial cost. I'll probably move > in that direction after my present printer (HP880C) runs out of ink. At work I have a rather jazzy HP laser printer. In the middle of July it told me to order a new toner as there were 900 print pages left. I did so, and went on holiday for a week. When I came back, the printer told me, on a weekly basis, that there were 700, 500 and 300 pages left. Then I had another week's holiday. On my return the message was "change black cartridge". I shook the cartridge and have otherwise ignored it. That was 4 weeks ago. It's still requesting a new cartridge, but the print quality I'm getting out of it is fine. When I do eventually change the cartridge it'll be the first time I've done so in over a year. And considering the amount of printing I do - I can get through a ream of paper in a week - I think it's value for money! SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary [ ... ] > At work I have a rather jazzy HP laser printer. In the middle of July it > told me to order a new toner as there were 900 print pages left. I did so, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > printing I do - I can get through a ream of paper in a week - I think it's > value for money! I am one of several Feds using the same printer. It issues a "toner low" warning at just about the time it starts missing some of the lines as it prints. Of course, it's not all that hard to yank the cartridge and replace it at that point -- hell, I can do it and I'm a lawyer. However, this printer is owned by the United States Navy. So we can't have perfectly good toner cartridges lying around idle. failing to amortize their cost. Which means that every time "toner low" comes on, we have to send an email to Tech Support and ask them to install a new cartridge. And indeed, they do just that, sometimes in as little as two weeks after the initial email. If it weren't possible for most of us to switch to other relatively nearby printers (we have a really intricate system of connections of multiple computers to multiple printers, but only in nearby spaces), God knows what we'd do. At times, notwithstanding all the connections, the only way I can get something printed is to email it to a cow-orker in another part of the building who has access to a functioning printer. At home it's one computer and one printer, an HP inkjet with copier and scanner functions. I don't do much printing at home, so I can live with the prices of cartridges, which I get mostly at Costco for about two-thirds of retail. > >>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn > >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > battery is inaccessible. The latest ones don't even have > dipsticks. Apart from the ones behind the wheel, of course. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynwxfn >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > since that time. Child's play. Tinkering with this and that to keep > things running was a regular requirement for several of the cars I owned. I used to play with car engines too, but these days I look under the bonnet and see a mass of wires, pipes and electronic gizmos and have no idea what they are for. SignatureRob Bannister >> A box spanner is (in BrE) something else entirely: >> http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/MEL9.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and a few other accessories. I believe the term "socket wrench set" > also exists. Look more closely at the picture, Al. I think those box spanners are what you might possibly call tube spanners, such as you would use on spark plugs. They are not socket sets, which look like: http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/BAHS240.html SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> A box spanner is (in BrE) something else entirely: >>> http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/MEL9.html [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >what you might possibly call tube spanners, such as you would use on >spark plugs. The set pictured below does not have a spark plug socket. My socket set does, and the spark plug socket is a longer "tube" than the other sockets to allow the head of the plug to fit in the socket. >They are not socket sets, which look like: >http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/BAHS240.html SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it ... > The set pictured below does not have a spark plug socket. My socket > set does, and the spark plug socket is a longer "tube" than the other > sockets to allow the head of the plug to fit in the socket. > > >They are not socket sets, which look like: > >http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/BAHS240.html I am an inveterate collector of socket sets, but I can't find any images similar to any mine, which all contain a couple of ratchets, half a dozen extension bars, universal joints and perhaps 100 sockets in Imperial and Metric. I have one I am very fond of, with one- eighth inch fittings and a huge selection of tiny sockets, including both short and long sockets in each size. It's got me out of trouble on many occasions. SignatureDavid ===== >tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >both short and long sockets in each size. It's got me out of trouble >on many occasions. Here is an image of one of my socket sets -- a small set of small sockets (4 - 13 mm). http://www.peterduncanson.net/images/socket_set.jpg It is a 41 piece set of "sockets and tools". In addition to sockets, handles, universal joint and extension bars, there are screwdriver bits - see the bottom row. These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, crossheads and hexagonal recesses. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... > These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, > crossheads and hexagonal recesses. The latter are known as Allen Keys in the UK. SignatureDavid ===== > mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... > >> These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, >> crossheads and hexagonal recesses. > > The latter are known as Allen Keys in the UK. But they don't look anything like him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |"You can't prove it *isn't* so!" is 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |as good as Q.E.D. in folk logic--as Palo Alto, CA 94304 |though it were necessary to submit |a piece of the moon to chemical kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |analysis before you could be sure (650)857-7572 |that it was not made of green |cheese. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bergen Evans >> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >> >>> These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, >>> crossheads and hexagonal recesses. >> >> The latter are known as Allen Keys in the UK. Oddly enough, they're allen *wrenches* in AmE. >But they don't look anything like him. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes Teehee. SignatureAl in St. Lou alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > >> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Teehee. They are always black though. SignatureDavid ===== >alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >They are always black though. This is AUE. Never say "always" and never say "never". The office-style table at which I am sitting came in flatpack form. The allen key supplied with it to tighten the screws was silvery rather than black. I expect that it was made of lower quality metal and would lose its profile with repeated use. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... > >alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > made of lower quality metal and would lose its profile with > repeated use. I think the same is true for the IKEA desk at which I am sitting, so I wasn't even right for my own experience. I was only thinking of the sets (I also seem to accumulate these). SignatureDavid ===== > mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I wasn't even right for my own experience. I was only thinking of > the sets (I also seem to accumulate these). What percentage of us is (are? is.) sitting at desks or tables from Ikea? I wonder? I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) to put it together. SignatureSML I need tungsten to live >>mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Ikea? I wonder? I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) to > put it together. I am sitting at what was once our kitchen table and came from John Lewis about 30 years ago. The only assembly required was to fix in the legs which are held on by butterfly screws. The Saturday Guardian has a photograph each week of a writer's study. Well-known authors often seem to work at desks constructed from a board laid across a pair of two-drawer filing cabinets. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Well-known authors often seem to work at desks constructed from a > board laid across a pair of two-drawer filing cabinets. A door and two filing cabinets make about the best desk you can have. But I'm sentimentally attached to my rather teacherish solid oak one with those quarter-spherical brass drawer-handles, which is a lot smaller than that. It was well matured already when I paid ten to fifteen quid for it yonks ago. I stroke it from time to time: even the bumps and gouges have smooth edges, and the colour's a nice gold, with genuine ink stains. At some stage somebody's left a wet pair of scissors on it for long enough to leave a stain. Time I got the furniture polish out from the midden under the sink. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >on it for long enough to leave a stain. Time I got the furniture polish >out from the midden under the sink. I bought one of those at an auction not long after my first marriage, maybe 1964 or 65. I paid £30 for it because a dealer was after it and the blighter forced the price up. It's far too small for all the computer kit I've got so I, too, am using a large kitchen table which is still only big enough to hold the monitor, modem and one of my laser printers. The tower, scanner and another laser printer are on a shelf unit adjacent. Why two lasers? The everyday workhorse is an IBM 4029 (truly, Areff) that I bought in 1993 via employee discount. It's used most days and is still on its original cartridge. The other is a colour printer, rather expensive when I bought it, but I got fed up with buying inkjet cartridges. SignatureRobin Herts, England In alt.usage.english, Sara Lorimer wrote: >> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Ikea? I wonder? I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) to >put it together. I'm sitting at an Ikea desk, or rather a collection of four Ikea desks arranged in a J shape. I used the supplied spanner (wrench) to attach the legs to the tops. I used the supplied Allen key to connect the desks to each other using the supplied W-shaped aluminium extrusions, allowing me to omit six of the sixteen legs. Because the desks are connected in a pattern not anticipated by the designer, I needed to drill some extra holes in the steel rails supporting the tops. I'm wondering what the point of this conversation is. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > What percentage of us is (are? is.) sitting at desks or tables from > Ikea? I wonder? I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) > to put it together. Mine came from a junk shop about 30 years ago. It has a few scratches and soldering iron burns, but I'm still satisfied with it. In fact, I bought a pair of them, and still regret losing the other at the end of my first marriage. (This time around a lifetime's collection of tools, so I don't even have an Allen key. Upper-case compulsory, in my opinion, because my eyes confuse "allen key" with "alien key".) My second desk is newer, being surplus to a hotel's requirements, and its varnish is shinier, but it's a bit too small to hold two computers comfortably. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > Mine came from a junk shop about 30 years ago. It has a few scratches > and soldering iron burns, but I'm still satisfied with it. In fact, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > its varnish is shinier, but it's a bit too small to hold two > computers comfortably. My apologies for the cryptic comments. I assure you that it did make sense at the time I wrote it. The essential points are that I like my old desk, and that I'm a bit short of tools at present. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >What percentage of us is (are? is.) sitting at desks or tables from >Ikea? I wonder? I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) to >put it together. Mine is not really Ikea but it might as well be - purchased from a local furniture emporium called Scandinavian Designs. See http://home.znet.com/couperus/Desk.htm But then I also have a "workbench" in my room which is truly a joy to behold (right in the picture). This was configured by me from a catalog of options so I could choose the length of the top (8 ft of butcher-block maple) and the drawer set-up on both sides. I could choose how many drawers to be stacked (i.e. I have a mixture of some that are 3 inches high, some 4 and some 6 inches high). The drawers are huge (2 foot square) and roll all the way out on roller bearings. The only thing that occasionally pisses me off is that it has been engineered so that only one dawer in either of the stacks can be rolled out at any given time. This (I am told) is for my own safety so that not all drawers can be extended at the same time and tip the whole damn thing over. The drawers contain my collection of tools and all those thingummybobs one accretes over time - in case they might come in useful one day. Jitze In alt.usage.english, Jitze wrote: >[office desk] >The only thing that occasionally pisses me off [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >extended at the same time and tip the whole >damn thing over. My Ikea desk setup had a similar "safety" feature. I found that I could disable the mechanism by removing the lugs that engaged with the vertical slider, a simple operation which had the other useful result of disabling the lock. I was prepared to be careful about tipping but that wasn't necessary: even with all the drawers full and open, and nothing resting on top to stabilise the unit, it was perfectly stable. Your units seem to be against a wall, so in your position I would disable the safety mechanism, and if I felt it necessary, I would attach the casing to the wall. Using a flexible attachment (e.g. old seat belt) would limit movement rather than totally preventing it, so that you would know what was happening without being in any danger. One of our tall bookcases (from, yes, *Ikea*) came with such a safety strap, which works well. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >In alt.usage.english, Jitze wrote: >>[office desk] [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >tall bookcases (from, yes, *Ikea*) came with such a safety strap, which >works well. Yes - I became aware of the workings of this mechanism when I put the unit together on arrival - and got the sequence of drawers mixed up as I was inserting them. I couldn't get the damn drawers out agiain - only one at at time and then all the others effectively became locked. The secret is to take the *bottom* drawer out (which is 6 inch deep) which gives one enough room to reach an arm into the void and twist a long vertcal rod in back - which then allows all drawers to open. I hadn't though of jamming this rod in its turned position, but that would do the trick - I'll have to look into that some time. There are no lugs on the back of the drawers, more like a detent which would require a welding torch to modify. And then I'd probably set fire to the place. But - living as I do very close to the San Andreas Fault, I can assure you that all my tall bookcases (and similar - like the Grandfather clock) are affixed to the wall with safety straps. A very wise precaution when you live near Old Shakey. The water heater is securely strapped as per code, and even mantlepice bric-a-brack sits on little bits of "tack" - sort of like blobs of plasticine. That didn't help our goldfish though last time around - a localized tsunami deposited them in the stereo, while a bottle of ketchup did a full-gainer from an upper cabinet into the knives-and-forks drawer which slid open just in time to catch it. And the fridge waltzed its way into the center of the kitchen - yanking its water line (for the ice-maker) out of the wall which in turn caused a mini flood. SignatureJitze >The water heater is securely strapped as per code, and >even mantlepice bric-a-brack sits on little bits of "tack" - >sort of like blobs of plasticine. Bric-a-brac or Bric-à-brac on the mantlepiece. Hardly OY!able, but I haven't even had a sniff of a sheep and I want to show that I'm at least paying attention here. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>The water heater is securely strapped as per code, and >>even mantlepice bric-a-brack sits on little bits of "tack" - [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Hardly OY!able,... Good catch! (English cricketing ejaculation) At first I thought you were moaning about the lack of an accent grave, but on further examination I see I was brack(et)ing my bricks. >... but I haven't even had a sniff of a sheep and I want >to show that I'm at least paying attention here. Good God Man! Sheep sniffing! Have you no morals at all? Jitze >>>The water heater is securely strapped as per code, and >>>even mantlepice bric-a-brack sits on little bits of "tack" - [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Good God Man! Sheep sniffing! Have you no morals at all? Of course he has! All sheep sniffed were consenting. > Hardly OY!able, but I haven't even had a sniff of a sheep and I want > to show that I'm at least paying attention here. Sniffing them is not recommended. Skip the foreplay and move straight on to the main course. In case I am labelled sexist for saying that, I'd better add that I do take care to attend to the needs of human women. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > What percentage of us is (are? is.) I prefer "are". > sitting at desks or tables from Ikea? The table I'm now sitting at came from a Canadian department store. But my "desk" at work is a table from Ikea (with a separate set of drawers on casters, also from Ikea). > I am -- but I used a drill (and not an Allen wrench) to put it together. I think my table at work was also put together with a drill or power screwdriver, but the Ikea "Billy" bookcases in my basement were put together with Allen keys (not wrenches to me; hex keys to Wikipedia). SignatureMark Brader | "After that, he spent a long time just reading netnews. msb@vex.net | Sorry, I mean of course that he was debugging his Toronto | terminal emulation code..." --Lars Wirzenius >alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >They are always black though. Unless you have entered that strange world of pseudo-science that is In Car Entertainment. You need gold-plated Allen keys to tighten your gold plated battery connectors, otherwise ... well, just otherwise. Unfortunately, I can't find these on the web at present, but Maplin used to sell them. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > They are always black though. That's so you can't find them when you drop them on the workshop floor. Cheers, Sage >alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >They are always black though. I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * hatunen@cox.net had it ... > >alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. The world is a far stranger place than I could have imagined. SignatureDavid ===== > hatunen@cox.net had it ... [...] >>> They are always black though. >> >> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. > > The world is a far stranger place than I could have imagined. Exactly as Haldane or somebody predicted for the entire universe. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> hatunen@cox.net had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Exactly as Haldane or somebody predicted for the entire universe. To Sir James Jeans, it was merely mysterious. SignatureRobin Herts, England Mike Lyle filted: >> The world is a far stranger place than I could have imagined. > >Exactly as Haldane or somebody predicted for the entire universe. Omrud's observation is merely a corollary of Haldane's....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >> hatunen@cox.net had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Exactly as Haldane or somebody predicted for the entire universe. There are some people who believe that this has already happened. (Insert linking commentary as required, to avoid getting a non sequitur.) The truth is that we are already in Heaven. This is as good as it gets. Or Hell, for those who happen to be married. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. On 17 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote > hatunen@cox.net had it ... Re: Allen keys/wrenches >>> They are always black though. >> >> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. > > The world is a far stranger place than I could have imagined. Not just the world; even your own back yard: I have a set I bought right here in Hampshire (Draper) which are chrome/silver rather than black. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > the Omrud wrote: >> alfargnoli@yahoo.com had it ... >>> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote: >>>> the Omrud writes: >>>>> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >>>>>> These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, >>>>>> crossheads and hexagonal recesses. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. So do I. Some are the color of silver, some are the color of gold. SignatureSkitt Skitt filted: >> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. > >So do I. Some are the color of silver, some are the color of gold. When did you start writing gospel music?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > Skitt filted: >>> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. >> So do I. Some are the color of silver, some are the color of gold. > > When did you start writing gospel music?...r Since his Allen keys started slipping in the sockets. Where Allen keys are concerned, black is beautiful. The inferior models only come with things like Ikea furniture. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. On 18 Sep 2007, Peter Moylan wrote >> Skitt filted: >>>> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Allen keys are concerned, black is beautiful. The inferior > models only come with things like Ikea furniture. "Only?" With respect, y'onner, the last set of Allen keys I bought had 14 keys -- 7 metric and 7 AF keys -- and they were colour-coded: the metric ones were black, the AF ones were silver. It was a cheap consumer set -- Draper, I think -- but the two types of keys were definitely colour-coded. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed Peter Moylan filted: >> Skitt filted: >>>> I've had several sets of Allen keys/wrenches that weren't black. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are concerned, black is beautiful. The inferior models only come with >things like Ikea furniture. I'd hardly call solid brass (the kind that came with most of the pre-Ikea put-it-together-yourself furniture I own) "inferior"....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" Al in Dallas <alfargnoli@yahoo.com> wrote >>> mail@peterduncanson.net had it ... >>>> These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oddly enough, they're allen *wrenches* in AmE. Hex keys or Allen wrenches. In my experience, if they're straight, and set into something rather like a jackknife frame like this: <http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_ 200329417_200329417> they're more likely to be called hex keys. individually, and L-shaped, they're Allen wrenches. >> tony_cooper213@earthlink.net had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > These bits are for screws/bolts with straight slots, > crossheads and hexagonal recesses. M-m-m-m-m-m-m. Tool porn ... SignatureFrank ess >>>> A box spanner is (in BrE) something else entirely: >>>> http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/MEL9.html [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > set does, and the spark plug socket is a longer "tube" than the other > sockets to allow the head of the plug to fit in the socket. Yes, that would be another good example of what a box or tube spanner isn't. Box spanners, as in Nick's link, are also used a lot by plumbers. >> They are not socket sets, which look like: >> http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/BAHS240.html SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>>On 01 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote >>>> rat@atatatat.com had it ... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > with fixed or movable jaws, used to seize, turn, or twist > objects such as nuts and bolts I had to go looking for definitions of "spanner" and "dismantle", and I can honestly say that yes, I have dismantled a few spanners, according to the usual definition, as well as one specific type of spanner. One was a spanner known commonly in North America as a crescent wrench (movable jaws using a thumb wheel), and the other standard ones were open end, box end, or open- box-end combination wrenches. I can almost hear you say "but that's not dismantling, because it's all one piece". If so, and I apologize if you didn't say that, I refer you to M-W Online: 1 : to take to pieces; also : to destroy the integrity or functioning of The ones I have destroyed have been by melting, breaking, and spreading the jaws. In all cases, the functioning was destroyed. As for the specialized spanner, it was an "air spanner", which we in North America call an "impact wrench", driven by air. >>>>On 01 Sep 2007, the Omrud wrote >>>>> rat@atatatat.com had it ... [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >1 : to take to pieces; also : to destroy the integrity or functioning >of I take your point. Somehow between composing in the brain and composing on the screen the clause "and reassembled" went missing. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...] >The Haynes manual for the car, published 1976, has a glossary >listing the equivalent "English" and "American" terms for car >components. Enjoy! An interesting list. I have indicated Australian usage *, which is, as usual, chooses from both. I have deleted the ones I don't know. >English American >------------------------------ [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >Windscreen* Windshield >Wing/mudguard* Fender SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >[...] >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>------------------------------ >>Accelerator* Gas pedal Americans use "accelerator" and "gas pedal" more or less interchangeably. >>Alternator* Generator (AC) And we Yanks call the thing that makes the electricity for our cars an "alternator", although some old timers -- the type who still call a frdige an "ice box" - may still call it a generator. Since "alternator" is a subset of the set of "generators" this is really OK. >>Anti-roll bar* Stabiliser or sway bar >>Battery* Energizer I've never heard an American call a car's battery an "energizer". There is, however, a brand of small battery, or better, "cell", that is called Energizer. >>Bonnet* (engine cover) Hood >>Boot lid* Trunk lid >>Boot* (luggage compartment) Trunk> >>Bottom gear 1st gear* >>Bulkhead Firewall* >>Cam follower or tappet Valve lifter or tappet* The "cam follower" is the part of the system that actually follow the cam shaft. >>Carburettor* Carburetor >>Catch Latch* >>Choke*/venturi Barrel I've never heard either a choke or venturi called a "barrel". And, although the choke operates in the venturi, it is not the venturi. >>Disc (brake)* Rotor/disk We Yanks call them "disc brakes", which consist of a rotor or disc and a clamping mechanism. >>Earth (electrical)* Ground >>Estate car Station wagon* >>Exhaust manifold* Header Americans use both terms. >>Fault finding/diagnosis Trouble shooting* >>Freewheel* Coast* >>Gudgeon pin* Piston pin or wrist pin >>Gearchange* Shift* >>Gearbox* Transmission* For manual transmissions, teh term "gearbox" is quite common in the US. But not for automatic transmissions. >>Handbrake* Parking brake We use both terms. >>Indicator* Turn signal >>Interior light* Dome lamp "Interior light" is a fairly common term here ont the left side, especailly now that so few of these lights are actually overhead anymore. >>Locks* Latches >>Motorway Freeway*, turnpike etc. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>Retread* Recap* >>Reverse* Back-up We use bth terms. >>Rocker cover* Valve cover >>Roof rack* Car-top carrier A roof rack isn't the same thing as a car-top carrier here; a roof rack is permanently mounted on the top of the car and may be used for attaching the car-top carrier. or as a means of tying down a Christmas tree for transport home. >>Saloon Sedan* >>Seized* Frozen In the case of car engines, it might be common to say "it froze up", but "seized" is the technical term here. >>Side indicator lights* (AusE "blinkers")Side marker lights >>Silencer Muffler* [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>Sump* Oil pan >>Tailgate* Liftgate If you mean the opening at the rear of the vehicle, the term here is "tailgate". In fact, a major good-time venue is the parking lot before a major sports event, especially a football game, when people will engage in tailgate parties. >>Tappet* Valve lifter We use both terms. >>Top gear* High While "high gear" is a bit more common in usage, "top gear is used, too. >>Trackrod (of steering) Tie-rod (or connecting rod)* >>Trailing shoe* (of brake) Secondary shoe >>Transmission* Whole drive line >>Tyre* Tire >>Van* Panel wagon/van* We call them "vans". I don't think I've ever heard the term "panel wagon"; more common would be "panel truck". Were it not for the appearance of the mini-van, we would think of vans as being panel vehicles. >>Vice* Vise >>Wheel nut* Lug nut >>Windscreen* Windshield >>Wing/mudguard* Fender Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>Choke*/venturi Barrel > >I've never heard either a choke or venturi called a "barrel". >And, although the choke operates in the venturi, it is not the >venturi. I'm not a car person, but there is the "throttle barrel". Someone more familiar with those greasy parts under the hood might be able to determine if this is related to the choke/venturi. >>>Tailgate* Liftgate > >If you mean the opening at the rear of the vehicle, the term here >is "tailgate". In fact, a major good-time venue is the parking >lot before a major sports event, especially a football game, when >people will engage in tailgate parties. A liftgate, in AmE, is a platform added to a truck to raise the load to the truck bed level. Usually operated with an electric motor. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>> Choke*/venturi Barrel >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > more familiar with those greasy parts under the hood might be able to > determine if this is related to the choke/venturi. A barrel is one entire cylindric part of the carburetor. Bigger carbs have multiple barrels. The venturi is one part of a barrel. The choke does not operate *in* the venturi -- it is before the venturi. Here's a basic carburetor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carburetor.svg SignatureSkitt >>>>> Choke*/venturi Barrel >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Here's a basic carburetor: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carburetor.svg I knew that. But it's been a long time since I took apart a carburetor. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>>> Choke*/venturi Barrel >>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > But it's been a long time since I took apart a carburetor. Is that a cause, or a result of, not being a car person? SignatureFrank ess >>>>>>> Choke*/venturi Barrel >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Is that a cause, or a result of, not being a car person? It's a result of getting old and getting some money and no longer wanting to repair my own cars. Besides, I haen't owned a car with a carburetor in years. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > "Frank ess"wrote: >>>>>> I've never heard either a choke or venturi called a "barrel". >>>>>> And, although the choke operates in the venturi, it is not the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > wanting to repair my own cars. Besides, I haen't owned a car with > a carburetor in years. I could be wrong, but the last one with carburetors I had to mess with had twin SUs (the '59 AH 100-6). Those dash pots kept getting junk in them which made them sticky. I also had a strange '64 MBZ that had to have oil suctioned out of the fuel injection system fairly regularly. I had a nice turkey baster to do it with. http://www.geocities.com/opus731/cars.html SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >>[...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>>English American >>>------------------------------ >>>Battery* Energizer > >I've never heard an American call a car's battery an "energizer". >There is, however, a brand of small battery, or better, "cell", >that is called Energizer. Those are sold in the UK and Europe. The one I'm looking at now is an "Energizer ACCU" Ni-Mh rechargeable D cell. The list gives the impression of having been compiled by someone who knew some of the American terms moderately well but had to ask around for the others. "Asking around" carries the risk of a question being misunderstood or being answered by someone confidently giving a wrong answer. This might well have happened with Battery/Energizer and some other items in the list. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>I've never heard an American call a car's battery an "energizer". >>There is, however, a brand of small battery, or better, "cell", [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >confidently giving a wrong answer. This might well have happened >with Battery/Energizer and some other items in the list. Do you have adverts with the Energizer bunny? Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>I've never heard an American call a car's battery an "energizer". >>>There is, however, a brand of small battery, or better, "cell", [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Do you have adverts with the Energizer bunny? We might have had them at one time. If we did, the Duracell Bunnies seem to have taken over the ecological niche. Energizer in Europe (including the UK) use Mr Energizer: http://www.energizer-eu.com/en/power-play/mr-energizer Mr Energizer is our full-time super-hero and represents everything a battery should be - he's powerful, reliable and packed full of energy. That's why he leads the way in all our European advertising campaigns, where he's kept busy helping to save the day. Wherever you see Energizer batteries, you'll see Mr Energizer - working hard to bring the energy directly to you. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>I've never heard an American call a car's battery an "energizer". >>>There is, however, a brand of small battery, or better, "cell", [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Do you have adverts with the Energizer bunny? Tomorrow afternoon, at 4:30 pm, the "Hare" hot-air ballon will take off. Fifteen minutes later, the "Hounds" will start to take off. It's a traditional hot-air-balloon race in St. Louis. The sponsor owns the *Energizer* trademark and has its headquarters in a St. Louis suburb. I have no idea whether the *Energizer bunny* is older or younger than having a "Hare" balloon in the balloon race. I wonder whether it's pink. The events begin at noon (or should I say 12:00 pm?). Details can be found at http://www.greatforestparkballoonrace.com/. SignatureAl in St. Lou > >[...] > >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >>English American > >>------------------------------ <snip> > >>Cam follower or tappet Valve lifter or tappet* > > The "cam follower" is the part of the system that actually follow > the cam shaft. Yep. That's why we call it the "cam follower". SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > hatunen@cox.net says... >>>> The Haynes manual for the car, published 1976, has a glossary >>>> listing the equivalent "English" and "American" terms for car [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yep. That's why we call it the "cam follower". Well, sort of. We call it the cam follower because it follows the cams on the cam shaft. In English usage, of course. SignatureSkitt >> >[...] >> >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Yep. That's why we call it the "cam follower". Of course. And that's also why it's not the "valve lifter". At best it moves that part that does lift the valve, or it might be better to say that it pushes the valve, since it doesn't actually lift the valve. Of course, with overhead cams it pushes the valve directly. On googling I see that the cam follower is sometimes called the "valve lifter" even though the valve doesn't get lifted. I think I'll drop this whole confusing subject right here. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>Alternator* Generator (AC) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Since "alternator" is a subset of the set of "generators" this is >really OK. And we old farts used to call the DC kind a dynamo when Americans called it a generator. >>>Trackrod (of steering) Tie-rod (or connecting rod)* The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the tie rod's connected to the steering arm SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk [...] > The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the > tie rod's connected to the steering arm ... hear the word of the Lord. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk had it ... > [...] > > The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the > > tie rod's connected to the steering arm > > ... hear the word of the Lord. Look, I thought of that as well, but Richard had already posted it at 00:19 on 4/09, so I restrained myself. How come your posting (somewhere around 16:00 on 4/09) is stamped as 23:19 on 3/09? Did you borrow Professor Prune's Electric Time Trousers (woof)? SignatureDavid ===== > mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (somewhere around 16:00 on 4/09) is stamped as 23:19 on 3/09? Did > you borrow Professor Prune's Electric Time Trousers (woof)? No, just a fringe benefit of Tear-yer-news's unreliability. ("Fringe" sounds a natch for the Goon lexicon: I wonder they never used it, AFAIR.) SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com [...[] >The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the tie rod's >connected to the steering arm "Oh hear the word of the Lord." SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. Richard Bollard filted: >[...[] > >>The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the tie rod's >>connected to the steering arm > >"Oh hear the word of the Lord." *Somebody* had better submit this to alt.humor.best-of-usenet....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >[...[] > >>The trackrod's connected to the tie rods (one at each end), and the tie rod's >>connected to the steering arm > >"Oh hear the word of the Lord." I was trying to think of the in-beween bit before adding that. I thought of stub axle and kingpin, but those aren't right right. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): >>> English American >>> ------------------------------ >>> Accelerator* Gas pedal > Americans use "accelerator" and "gas pedal" more or less > interchangeably. There's also the short form "gas", in any context that makes it clear you're talking about a control. >>> Alternator* Generator (AC) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Since "alternator" is a subset of the set of "generators" this is > really OK. I call it a generator because it is a generator. "Alternator" seems a needless distinction to me. >>> Handbrake* Parking brake > > We use both terms. We do? Real men's cars don't *have* a handbrake these days. When the front seat is wide enough for a nominal capacity of three people, the gearshift is mounted on the steering column and the parking brake (also occasionally called the emergency brake) is a small pedal operated by the left foot. Usually there's a small handle nearby to release it, but in a few cars it's released by stepping on the pedal again. I do remember older cars with a hand-operated parking brake in the same position; to set the brake you reached down and pulled the handle, and rotating the handle released it. But I never drove one. >>> Reverse* Back-up > > We use bth terms. I'd say "reverse" is the name of the gear (transmission setting) while "backing up" is the action. SignatureMark Brader "All this government stuff, in other words, Toronto is not reading matter, but prefabricated msb@vex.net parts of quarrels." -- Rudolf Flesch My text in this article is in the public domain. >Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): > >>>> English American >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Accelerator* Gas pedal >>>> Handbrake* Parking brake >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >parking brake (also occasionally called the emergency brake) is a >small pedal operated by the left foot. I didn't think a front seat for three was part of a "real men's car". My 2000 4WD Suburu Forester has a handbrake. >Usually there's a small handle nearby to release it, but in a few >cars it's released by stepping on the pedal again. Well, sure. My wife's 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan has that setup. It has a DVD player, seat warmers for the front seats. Pushbutton remote opening doors and tailgate, individual climate controls for driver, passenger, and rear seats, etc. is that what you're calling a "real men's car"? Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Mark Brader: >> We do? Real men's cars don't *have* a handbrake these days. >> When the front seat is wide enough for a nominal capacity of three >> people, the gearshift is mounted on the steering column and the >> parking brake (also occasionally called the emergency brake) is a >> small pedal operated by the left foot. Dave Hatunen: > I didn't think a front seat for three was part of a "real men's > car". Now you know! >> Usually there's a small handle nearby to release it, but in a few >> cars it's released by stepping on the pedal again. > Well, sure. My wife's 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan has that setup. It > has a DVD player, seat warmers for the front seats. Pushbutton > remote opening doors and tailgate, individual climate controls > for driver, passenger, and rear seats, etc. is that what you're > calling a "real men's car"? That's not a car, it's a van! SignatureMark Brader "People who think for a living have always Toronto been especially prone to confuse thinking msb@vex.net with living." -- G. L. Sicherman > >Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I didn't think a front seat for three was part of a "real men's > car". Well, sure. If a man sits in the middle, he's "sitting bitch" (at least around here), and you can't get more real-man than that. -- Jerry Friedman >Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >parking brake (also occasionally called the emergency brake) is a >small pedal operated by the left foot. The last car I owned with a gear change on the steering column was a 1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have column changers these days? SignatureRobin Herts, England >The last car I owned with a gear change on the steering column was a >1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have >column changers these days? They were popular in British cars from about 1948-1956. The French kept them a bit longer -- the Peugeot 403 & 404, for example, though my mother had one of the latter that had been converted to a floor gearchange. They lasted until the early 1970s. I had a 1971 Daihatsu double-cab bakkie that had it, with a front bench seat -- useful for fitting three in the front. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk hayesmstw@hotmail.com had it ... > >The last car I owned with a gear change on the steering column was a > >1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the early 1970s. I had a 1971 Daihatsu double-cab bakkie that had it, with a > front bench seat -- useful for fitting three in the front. My parents had a small Saab with a column gear change which they bought new in about 1976. SignatureDavid ===== >hayesmstw@hotmail.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >My parents had a small Saab with a column gear change which they >bought new in about 1976. A lot of the early adopters of front-wheel-drive (i.e. pre-mini days when the idea of the transverse engine became popular and fwd became more common) had the gear change on the steering column. That's because there was little point in having it on the floor where the gearbox is naturally located in a rear-wheel-drive. Such cars included the Auto Union/DKW (later renamed Audi) and its E. German counterpart the Wartburg. Saab basically copied the idea of a fwd 3-cylinder 2-stroke from them and ended up with a similar layout. The French had of course their Citroen "Traction Avant" and the ugly duckling 2CV which were also front-wheel-drive. But instead of putting the gear shift on the steering column, they had it poking out of the middle of the dash-board. Jitze >>hayesmstw@hotmail.com had it ... >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >The French had of course their Citroen "Traction Avant" and Was that the ID-19? >the ugly duckling 2CV which were also front-wheel-drive. But >instead of putting the gear shift on the steering column, they >had it poking out of the middle of the dash-board. >>Such cars included the Auto Union/DKW (later renamed Audi) and >>its E. German counterpart the Wartburg. Saab basically copied [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Was that the ID-19? No - the ID19 (and its counterpart the DS, or Déesse. and later the SM - Maserati edition), came much later. They too were fwd of couse, and very advanced for their time - both styling and technologicaly. And the term "traction avant" was also applied to them, but that's not "THE" traction avant I had in mind. Think of last time you saw a Maigret episode on TV, or even WWII with the gestapo running around Paris - originaly introduced in the mid 1930's and way ahead of its time. See picture at http://www.francethisway.com/top10lists/images/citroentractionavant.jpg Jitze >>>Such cars included the Auto Union/DKW (later renamed Audi) and >>>its E. German counterpart the Wartburg. Saab basically copied [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >http://www.francethisway.com/top10lists/images/citroentractionavant.jpg Thanks Jitze. That's the car I was thinking of, and I knew the ID19 was the predecessor of the DS, but somehow I got the idea that this Traction Avant was called the ID19. I always thought of this one as an "Al Capone car". I drove one for a day, while my car was being fixed; not nearly enough to get comfortable with the shift, but I remember liking it a lot. I'd love to have one now. Our volunteer fire department owns a fire truck made by Thibault. It's a Canadian company that originated in Quebec, and made me wonder about the French and car design. When I tried to drive it for the first time, I thought immediately of the Citroen. It has a VERY funky shifter, consisting of a lever that is moved only fore and aft, coupled with a switch that determines whether you are shifting up or down (or into reverse). I'm surprised there are any teeth left in the transmission at all. >>>>Such cars included the Auto Union/DKW (later renamed Audi) and >>>>its E. German counterpart the Wartburg. Saab basically copied [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >comfortable with the shift, but I remember liking it a lot. I'd love >to have one now. When I was in grade school, there was a bicycle repair shop with a car similar to that in the back lot. It was a rusted out, weed-grown, hulk, but it was the most exotic looking car I'd ever seen. The shop owner said it had been a taxi in Monaco in its previous life. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>Such cars included the Auto Union/DKW (later renamed Audi) and >>>its E. German counterpart the Wartburg. Saab basically copied [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >technologicaly. And the term "traction avant" was also applied >to them, but that's not "THE" traction avant I had in mind. I had a road test in an SM in 1975 but decided that I couldn't possibly afford it so I bought a CX2000. It had a floor-mounted gear stick, but no clutch pedal: the gears changed automatically when you moved the stick. I've been a Mercedes fan for a long time (my SL will be 22 years young in four days) but that CX was the most comfortable car I've ever driven. SignatureRobin Herts, England On 04 Sep 2007, Jitze wrote > The French had of course their Citroen "Traction Avant" and > the ugly duckling 2CV which were also front-wheel-drive. But > instead of putting the gear shift on the steering column, they > had it poking out of the middle of the dash-board. My Renault 4 was like that, with the gears at the front of the engine. (It had major servicing implications; I remember having a relatively minor problem -- timing chain or something -- which bcause of the configuration meant that the engine had to be winched out of the car to get access for the repair.) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> The last car I owned with a gear change on the steering column was a >> 1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > double-cab bakkie that had it, with a front bench seat -- useful for > fitting three in the front. Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the others stopped. They were popular as taxis. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the > others stopped. They were popular as taxis. And how popular were taxis? (Honestly, that was my first reading.) SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The misinformation that passes for 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |gospel wisdom about English usage Palo Alto, CA 94304 |is sometimes astounding. | Merriam-Webster's Dictionary kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | of English Usage (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the >> others stopped. They were popular as taxis. > > And how popular were taxis? (Honestly, that was my first reading.) That meaning would have required another "as", though. SignatureSkitt as surprised as can be John Holmes: >>> Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the >>> others stopped. They were popular as taxis. Evan Kirshenbaum: >> And how popular were taxis? (Honestly, that was my first reading.) "Skitt": > That meaning would have required another "as", though. Sure, in formal writing. Remember the movie "Network"? Beale tells people to shout "I'm as mad as hell" and they all improve it and shout "I'm mad as hell". SignatureMark Brader "The great strength of the totalitarian state Toronto is that it will force those who fear it msb@vex.net to imitate it." -- Hitler (alleged) >> Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the >> others stopped. They were popular as taxis. > > And how popular were taxis? (Honestly, that was my first reading.) You foreigners talk funny. It would require another 'as' to force that meaning for me. Slangy elisions can often generate unintended ambiguities, I guess, so you would have to rely more on the context as to what makes sense. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the >>> others stopped. They were popular as taxis. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >ambiguities, I guess, so you would have to rely more on the context as >to what makes sense. I'd've written "they were popular in taxis" or maybe "they were popular for taxis". I agree about the extra "as". "John Howard is as popular as cot-death", for example. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>> Ford Australia kept making a column shift model long after all the >>>> others stopped. They were popular as taxis. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>ambiguities, I guess, so you would have to rely more on the context as >>to what makes sense. It isn't just a difference in usage. I find a difference in meaning. Compare: "Larry Olivier was popular as Hamlet" with "Larry Olivier was as popular as Hamlet". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >The last car I owned with a gear change on the steering column was a >1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have >column changers these days? It seems unlikely. The "airspace" round steering columns is fully occupied by stalks to be pushed/pulled in all directions, not to mention twisted. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >1948 Triumph Roadster. Do any cars made for the European market have >column changers these days? Before I knew much about cars, it seemed obvious that "four on the floor" shifters could be connected to the gears with rods. When I first saw a three-speed shifter on a steering column, I knew it must have involved cables, which seemed horribly Rube-Goldberg to me. SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): >>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >first saw a three-speed shifter on a steering column, I knew it must >have involved cables, which seemed horribly Rube-Goldberg to me. And once you knew more about cars, you realized the cables were not necessary, right? >>>>Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): >>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >And once you knew more about cars, you realized the cables were not >necessary, right? I actually have no idea how the linkages from a shifter on a steering column work. I can't imagine that it's not Rube-Goldberg though. Well, given that the gearbox is actually mounted to the engine, I guess the on the floor ones have long linkages as well. When I was a child, I assumed the gearbox was directly under the shifter on the floor. I guess I have no idea how the linkages from any shifter work. SignatureAl in St. Lou >I actually have no idea how the linkages from a shifter on a steering >column work. I can't imagine that it's not Rube-Goldberg though. Well, >given that the gearbox is actually mounted to the engine, I guess the >on the floor ones have long linkages as well. When I was a child, I >assumed the gearbox was directly under the shifter on the floor. I >guess I have no idea how the linkages from any shifter work. Fifty-one years ago my mother bought a car with a steering-column gear change, a 1956 Wolseley 4/44. The workshop manual showed the mechanism in an exploded diagram with about 76 distinct components, as opposed to two for the floor-mounted job - the gear lever and the knob that screwed on to the end. There were two arms that stuck out of the side of the gearbox, connected to two rods, that connected to other rods, gthat connected to two other arms that stuck out of the rod that sat on top of the steering column. I hate to think what it looked like on left-hand-drive models, where the rods would have had to cross over to the other side of the gearbox, and probably had 275 components. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>I actually have no idea how the linkages from a shifter on a steering >>column work. I can't imagine that it's not Rube-Goldberg though. Well, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >would have had to cross over to the other side of the gearbox, and probably >had 275 components. Two vs. seventy-six! Thanks for confirming my childhood intuition. SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>>>Peter Duncanson quotes (and Richard Bollard annotates(*) for Australian usage): >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >assumed the gearbox was directly under the shifter on the floor. I >guess I have no idea how the linkages from any shifter work. The floor-mounted ones may be directly over the transmission, in which case the shift lever goes into the transmission, and gets coupled to the sliding gears fairly directly. All other configurations use rods to move arms that rotate rods that go into the transmission, where other arms move sliding gears. Column-mounted shifters just have another mechanism to transmit the shift rod pushes and pulls in a different direction. Not what I'd call Rube Goldberg, really. >>>Before I knew much about cars, it seemed obvious that "four on the >>>floor" shifters could be connected to the gears with rods. When I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >assumed the gearbox was directly under the shifter on the floor. I >guess I have no idea how the linkages from any shifter work. Older Amrican cars, at least, had the gear shift lever mounted on the floor. Since the old cars had bennch seats, the trick was to get the girl sitting in the middle so that the gear shift lever was next to, or between, her legs. These were actually three-on-the-floor, and used the old H-pattern. Gear shifts on the steering column were more recent, pretty much mid-1900s. Note that with the clutch and gear box mounted on the rear of the engine in rear drive cars, the transmission is under the middle of the floorboards and floor mounted gear shift levers normally actually penetrated the transmission housing and moved the gears directly (there was some linkage inside the transmission, of course). Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>> Before I knew much about cars, it seemed obvious that "four on the >>>> floor" shifters could be connected to the gears with rods. When I [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > directly (there was some linkage inside the transmission, of > course). Not "of course". The shift lever can make direct contact with collars on shafts holding the gears. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission3.htm SignatureSkitt > Gear shifts on the steering column were more recent, pretty much > mid-1900s. And invented by sadists. Has anyone ever used a column shift that wasn't a pain to operate? Last week I drove a couple of rented cars that had an "automatic" gear lever that had to move through a zigzag path before getting to the "drive" position. It took several hours of driving before I discovered that this "drive" position allowed gear selection by gently edging the lever up and down, in a way that was vaguely reminiscent of a pre-selector. (I found out by being stuck in first gear for about a kilometre, no matter how fast I was driving.) No doubt this is a feature of newer cars. Normally I don't drive new cars; they have to accumulate a few years before I can afford them. I can imagine that, once one was used to the system, it would combine the convenience of manual shifting with the universal appeal to those who don't understand what a gearbox is. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> Gear shifts on the steering column were more recent, pretty much >> mid-1900s. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > manual shifting with the universal appeal to those who don't > understand what a gearbox is. One of my cars with automatic transmission has a shift lever with positions only for P R N and D. In the D position, however, it can be wiggled side to side a bit. The lever is spring-loaded, but pulling it towards the driver results in a shift-down, pushing it away from the driver makes it shift back up. SignatureSkitt In alt.usage.english, Peter Moylan wrote: >Last week I drove a couple of rented cars that had an "automatic" gear >lever that had to move through a zigzag path before getting to the >"drive" position. It took several hours of driving before I discovered >that this "drive" position allowed gear selection by gently edging the >lever up and down, in a way that was vaguely reminiscent of a >pre-selector. My car is like that, kind of. The path is straight rather than zigzag, and it's necessary to move the lever sideways from the Drive position in order to change gear manually. >[...] >I can imagine that, >once one was used to the system, it would combine the convenience of >manual shifting with the universal appeal to those who don't understand >what a gearbox is. Having at last found an automatic gearbox I can live with, I have to say that the "convenience of manual shifting" is a concept I no longer recognise. I *can* shift manually using the gear lever (or the alternative levers mounted on the steering wheel), but in three years of driving so far, I've only felt the desire to shift manually on one or two occasions, and really wouldn't have missed the facility if it were absent. And the manual shift that you describe is not without its drawbacks, which became apparent to me when I started experimenting with it. Using a conventional shift I was always aware of exactly which gear I was in, having remembered where I left the gear lever. Using the up/down shifter, I tended not to be aware of which gear I was in, unless I took care to remember. I found it hard to imagine getting used to that, so I didn't bother trying. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England mikebarnes@bluebottle.com had it ... > Having at last found an automatic gearbox I can live with, I have to say > that the "convenience of manual shifting" is a concept I no longer [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > two occasions, and really wouldn't have missed the facility if it were > absent. About once a year on my conventional automatic, I find it convenient to use the button at the bottom of the accelerator pedal. This tells the computer to maintain the lowest possible gear consistent with not damaging the engine. Very occasionally when descending a mountain (less often now we no longer tow a caravan), I pull the selector into 3 or 2. Also I sometimes use the Snow button to get out of our road, which is never gritted - this locks the transmission in 3rd which gives better traction. But after 15 years of driving cars with big engines and automatic gearboxes, I don't especially want to go back to a manual. SignatureDavid ===== >mikebarnes@bluebottle.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >traction. But after 15 years of driving cars with big engines and >automatic gearboxes, I don't especially want to go back to a manual. Nor me. My younger Mercedes shifts up or down with a touch of the stick to the right or left, respectively. Two touches left shifts down two gears, and holding the stick for a couple of seconds to its right selects top gear again. Which gear you're in is displayed on the dashboard. On both cars I always drop down a gear when descending a steep hill: both owner's manuals recommend it, but I've always wondered about the relative cost of wearing out the driving bands in gearboxes versus the cost of disk pads. SignatureRobin Herts, England docrobin@ntlworld.com had it ... > >Very occasionally when descending a mountain (less often now we no > >longer tow a caravan), I pull the selector into 3 or 2. Also I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > wearing out the driving bands in gearboxes versus the cost of > disk pads. When I did my IAM training in 1985, I was told that Gears are for Go and Brakes are for Stop, because brakes are cheaper than petrol and wear on the engine and gearbox. SignatureDavid ===== In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >docrobin@ntlworld.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >and Brakes are for Stop, because brakes are cheaper than petrol and >wear on the engine and gearbox. I'd be surprised if the IAM discouraged you from selecting a lower gear when going down a steep hill. Regarding the specifics you repeat, modern cars actually use no fuel when you're slowing down with your foot off the accelerator. The saving on engine and transmission wear is actually pretty negligible unless you shift into neutral (inadvisable), but as we all know brakes can and do wear out. Lastly a low gear helps prevent brake fade. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England mikebarnes@bluebottle.com had it ... > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > all know brakes can and do wear out. Lastly a low gear helps prevent > brake fade. No, indeed, not for going down steep hills - I was talking about slowing the car by working down through the gears, without using the brakes. This which was actively taught by instructors at one time and I know people who still use the gears to slow down as they approach a junction. SignatureDavid ===== > mikebarnes@bluebottle.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > and I know people who still use the gears to slow down as they > approach a junction. I can't not do it. Brakes only just feels out of control. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >mikebarnes@bluebottle.com had it ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >and I know people who still use the gears to slow down as they >approach a junction. The only time I use second gear on my automatic Toyota is in going down Headington Hill in Oxford. In that gear I don't exceed 30 mph - to the frequent frustration of whoever's following me, unless they've already had the experience of getting a speeding ticket down that hill. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ > The only time I use second gear on my automatic Toyota is in going > down Headington Hill in Oxford. In that gear I don't exceed 30 mph - > to the frequent frustration of whoever's following me, unless they've > already had the experience of getting a speeding ticket down that > hill. I use it in Kings Park (Perth) which has a speed limit of 40 kph. If I leave it in drive, I'm likely to get a speeding ticket. SignatureRob Bannister > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >> docrobin@ntlworld.com had it ... [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > out. > Lastly a low gear helps prevent brake fade. Figuring for a given mass on a given decline and a given rate of retardation the retarding force must convert one kind and amount of energy into the same amount of another kind (heat), the appropriate selection can be made on the basis of the driver's evaluation of outcomes other than slowing or preventing a runaway. Repeated heating and cooling of a transmission and its fluids is more likely to have a deleterious effect, in the long run, on a transmission than on a brake system designed to absorb such treatment. Either of them can suffer from extreme treatment, but for an ordinary, moderately steep hill, modern brakes are fine. Seems to me a few years back automotive writers noticed that brakes' function had progressed to the point they no longer required assistance from the "gearing-down" technique formerly necessary to slow efficiently; indeed, competition drivers abandoned the musically pleasing series of downshifts in reverse-numerical sequence in favor of the less syncopated but more efficient "brake-to-speed, shift-to-accelerating-gear" protocol. Seems to me the reason to shift down is to maintain best control over acceleration onset and value, although I frequently go through the entire down-through-the-gears-and-up-again dance, for the pure sensual enjoyment. SignatureFrank ess > Seems to me a few years back automotive writers noticed that brakes' > function had progressed to the point they no longer required assistance [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > entire down-through-the-gears-and-up-again dance, for the pure sensual > enjoyment. Any of our major roads that have long, steep hills have signs saying "Trucks engage low gear" at the top, so truck drivers don't get the option. SignatureRob Bannister >> Seems to me a few years back automotive writers noticed that brakes' >> function had progressed to the point they no longer required [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "Trucks engage low gear" at the top, so truck drivers don't get the > option. There are no brakes made that are capable of keeping a loaded truck coming down a long steep hill from becoming a runaway one. Long ago, I was coming down from Mount Diablo in a car with the overdrive still engaged (freewheeling), using only my brakes. The overdrive disengaging linkage was broken, and it had to be operated from underneath the car, so I hadn't bothered. Good thing that after a while I decided to see if I could still stop the car. Well, I couldn't -- not without slowly running it into the high side of the mountain. That was one of the quite a few times in my life when Lady Luck has smiled on me. SignatureSkitt > In alt.usage.english, Peter Moylan wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and it's necessary to move the lever sideways from the Drive position in > order to change gear manually. My Volvo XC70 does that. Volvo call it "Geartronic" but I think other companies have different tradenames for essentially the same system. It's a semi-manual, clutchless (or auto-clutch) system. Push forward to step up a gear, backward to step down. It also inhibits selection of inappropriate gears. > >I can imagine that, > >once one was used to the system, it would combine the convenience of > >manual shifting with the universal appeal to those who don't understand > >what a gearbox is. That is how I find it (though I have a reasonable understanding of gearboxes). It is most useful for overtaking and hill descents. > Having at last found an automatic gearbox I can live with, I have to say > that the "convenience of manual shifting" is a concept I no longer [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > two occasions, and really wouldn't have missed the facility if it were > absent. See above. I find that a pre-overtaking manual downshift is faster and more reliable than the more usual "kickdown" of an automatic. > And the manual shift that you describe is not without its drawbacks, > which became apparent to me when I started experimenting with it. Using [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > care to remember. I found it hard to imagine getting used to that, so I > didn't bother trying. I see my current gear or auto setting indicated on the dashboard (just below the speedo), -- WH In alt.usage.english, William wrote: >> In alt.usage.english, Peter Moylan wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >to step up a gear, backward to step down. It also inhibits selection >of inappropriate gears. My Audi has S-Tronic (was: "DSG") which actually has *two* clutches. The effect is similar to what you describe, but faster and smoother than other types. >> >I can imagine that, >> >once one was used to the system, it would combine the convenience of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >See above. I find that a pre-overtaking manual downshift is faster and >more reliable than the more usual "kickdown" of an automatic. The S-Tronic gearbox automatic change-down is faster than a manual gear-change would be, and in my experience is very reliable (i.e. predictable). But if I really want to change down manually, I move the gear selector back one notch to the S ("sport") position, which selects a lower gear than D ("drive") would, and continues to do so until I return the lever to D. >> And the manual shift that you describe is not without its drawbacks, >> which became apparent to me when I started experimenting with it. Using [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I see my current gear or auto setting indicated on the dashboard (just >below the speedo), Ditto, but I have a very strong preference for keeping my eyes firmly on the road. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > I have a very strong preference for keeping my eyes firmly on > the road. You are out of step with the "keepers of the road". They would rather you kept your eyes on the speedo. This is what is now known as "safe driving". -- WH >>>Gearbox* Transmission* > > For manual transmissions, teh term "gearbox" is quite common in > the US. But not for automatic transmissions. I can't speak for all Australians, but I have the feeling that "transmission" is mainly used for an automatic gearbox. SignatureRob Bannister >I can't speak for all Australians, but I have the feeling that >"transmission" is mainly used for an automatic gearbox. In South Africa "transmission" is anything and everything between the crankshaft and where the rubber hits the road. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I can't speak for all Australians, but I have the feeling that >"transmission" is mainly used for an automatic gearbox. "Manual transmission" is normal. When ordering a new car, you choose the transmission, manual or automagic. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >"Manual transmission" is normal. When ordering a new car, you choose >the transmission, manual or automagic. Many American cars aren't available with a manual transmission. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Many American cars aren't available with a manual transmission. Yes, that has been a cultural difference for a long time. In the 1970s, my family was visited by a wealthy, American magazine publisher [1]. He told us he was considered a bit of a sportsman because he drove a car with manual transmission: he had to order it specially. [1] ObIrony: He could do it, irony that is. I also remember him proclaiming, with a twinkle, that Canberra was "a purty little town". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "Manual transmission" is normal. When ordering a new car, you choose > the transmission, manual or automagic. But would I or the salesperson actually use the word transmission? The question I have been asked was always "(Do you want) manual or automatic?" Or more often, "This model is manual. Automatic will cost $2000 extra." SignatureRob Bannister >>>>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >automatic?" Or more often, "This model is manual. Automatic will cost >$2000 extra." All of the brochures use the term. It is usually elided in speech. I have only just bought a new car, so I have been reading a lot of articles and brochures. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>>>> Gearbox* Transmission* >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > automatic?" Or more often, "This model is manual. Automatic will cost > $2000 extra." I think there was a time -- maybe a brief one -- when for some cars it was the manual type that cost extra. All that were on hand were the automatic kind. SignatureSkitt >>>>>>> Gearbox* Transmission* >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >the manual type that cost extra. All that were on hand were the automatic >kind. There was also a time in the US when whitewall tires were an extra. Then it was an extra cost on some cars to change the whitewalls to blackwall. Or, you could pay to have the blackwall side mounted out. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> But would I or the salesperson actually use the word >>> transmission? The question I have been asked was always "(Do you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Then it was an extra cost on some cars to change the whitewalls to > blackwall. Or, you could pay to have the blackwall side mounted out. When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows deleted. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows deleted. That I know. My daughter's in the market for a new computer, but I'm advising her to stick with Windows XP and not buy a computer with Vista installed. She uses Adobe's Photoshop (Version 7), and that program is not compatible with Vista. She'd have to upgrade to Adobe CS3, and even that's iffy with Vista. We have not found a store that stocks a computer with Windows XP. They can be ordered, but special ordering makes the price prohibitive. If she buys locally, she'll have to buy a Windows XP license and pay to have Vista uninstalled and XP installed. She'll probably buy a Dell. Dell will supply either XP or Vista with no upcharge. The Dell customer service person I talked to on the phone said that sales are quite brisk for the XP systems. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows deleted. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >no upcharge. The Dell customer service person I talked to on the >phone said that sales are quite brisk for the XP systems. Why am I not surprised? Have you checked the CDW web site? We bought from them and Dell, whoever had the better price, when I was involved in procuring lab PCs for my department at NEC America. SignatureAl in St. Lou In alt.usage.english, Peter Moylan wrote: >When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows >deleted. I've never come across that but I can see how it's reasonable to be asked to pay extra for the supplier going to extra trouble to supply something that's different from what most people want. And it's certainly true that much of the software that we UK buyers find on our new computers actually reduces their cost. Dell (who I have particular experience with) and other manufacturers are paid by software suppliers to install trial versions of their software on the hard disk. Thus I spend the first half-hour after switching on a new PC removing all that crap, with varying degrees of success. Dell don't even bother to ensure that the uninstall procedures for such programs actually work, so customers are burdened with the trialware for the life of the PC. Dell claims that if they didn't put the trial software on the PC, the price would have to go up. I'd be happy to pay whatever it would cost - surely not that much. Alternatively I'd be happy to wipe the disk and install a clean version of Windows. But they don't make that easy either. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >In alt.usage.english, Peter Moylan wrote: >>When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >asked to pay extra for the supplier going to extra trouble to supply >something that's different from what most people want. It's more because Microsoft has ways to make suppliers an offer they can't refuse to install Windows. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > And it's certainly true that much of the software that we UK buyers > find on our new computers actually reduces their cost. Dell (who I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > programs actually work, so customers are burdened with the trialware > for the life of the PC. My daughter's Dell computer has a piece of Dell trialware that can't be removed unless she upgrades to the paid-for version. Since the software in question is a piece of crap, most purchases probably come from people who want to reactivate the "uninstall" feature. I've deleted the obvious program files for her, but there's still something hidden inside the system that keeps nagging her about the expiry of the trial date. I have very mixed feelings about Dell. I need a Windows computer in addition to the computers that do the real work, and Dell has some of the best prices; and the option to upgrade from Vista to XP is particularly attractive. One nasty feature of Dell computers, though, is that it's very difficult to add non-Dell options. In particular, I've never heard of anyone who was able to delete the operating system and install another one. P.S. For anyone considering buying a Dell computer, don't order a printer with your computer. The Dell printers are cheap, but they cost a king's ransom in ink, and it's not possible to buy the ink cartridges from someone else or to have them refilled. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> And it's certainly true that much of the software that we UK buyers >> find on our new computers actually reduces their cost. Dell (who I [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >king's ransom in ink, and it's not possible to buy the ink cartridges >from someone else or to have them refilled. You are buying from Dell, Australia, I suppose, but my experience with Dell was quite different. Dell offers a desktop tower with *either* Vista or XP installed. Not an "upgrade". Prices are the same. They offer bundles (as everyone seems to), but you aren't penalized for buying "one from column A and one from column B" instead of a bundle. I'll stick with a Samsung monitor and an Epson printer. I've been using only Epson printers, and paying a king's ransom for the ink cartridges. I haven't even checked to see if they are refillable since I like the Epson ink/Epson photo paper combination and the resulting quality. I'm watching for comments on Kodak's line of printers, though. They're bring down ink prices drastically in a desperate grab at market share. I'll follow what the professional graphic people say in the Photoshop newsgroups. Even they say it's even acceptable, I'll go Kodak next time. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>> But would I or the salesperson actually use the word >>>> transmission? The question I have been asked was always "(Do you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >When buying a computer, you often have to pay extra to have Windows deleted. I know how to reformat a hard drive. I sure as hell wouldn't pay someone else to do it. SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>>>Gearbox* Transmission* >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >"Manual transmission" is normal. When ordering a new car, you choose >the transmission, manual or automagic. Come on now! You've misspelled "slushbox." SignatureAl in St. Lou >>>>>> Gearbox* Transmission* >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Come on now! You've misspelled "slushbox." Jargon for slushbox is now "ATO", for Automatic Transmission with Overdrive; mine has four forward speeds plus an overdrive gear. From actual operation, it seems to me the difference between "overdrive" and any other "gear" is the manner of selection: lever at 1, 2, 3, D, for the four speeds, a button on-off for the O/D. In 1, 2, or 3, the car will start and stay in the chosen gear; in D it will use them in order, all the way to O/D, if previously selected. I'm saving up for a newer model that has six manually-selected forward speeds. By the time I'm ready it's likely to have O/D as well, and I'll be so confused I won't be able to get it round the corner. SignatureFrank ess > Jargon for slushbox is now "ATO", for Automatic Transmission with > Overdrive; mine has four forward speeds plus an overdrive gear. From [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > will start and stay in the chosen gear; in D it will use them in order, > all the way to O/D, if previously selected. Don't most cars have O/D on second gear as well? My little car does. SignatureRob Bannister >> Jargon for slushbox is now "ATO", for Automatic Transmission with >> Overdrive; mine has four forward speeds plus an overdrive gear. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Don't most cars have O/D on second gear as well? My little car does. I'm not certain about that function on the one I described; seems a useful test next time out. I do know about two others: my 1955 Austin-Healey 100 would shift to overdrive in any of the forward gears (three as supplied; four after removal of a plate that blocked selection of a "stump-puller" lowest gear). I disabled the lockout of third-gear overdrive on my MGB GT, so it had a useful ratio between third and fourth gears. I just don't know or remember about others. SignatureFrank ess > > [...] > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > An interesting list. I have indicated Australian usage *, which is, > > as usual, chooses from both. I have deleted the ones I don't know. > > > Exhaust manifold* Header > > Americans use both terms. Tecnically, headers are manifolds I suppose. However, usually in "car talk" they are different things that do the same job. Headers are a group of individual pipes that connect to the exhaust ports, and join at the collector. A manifold is one big thing that covers all the ports on one entire side of the engine. Headers: <http://images.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0310phr_burns_03-a_z.jpg> Manifold: <http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/images/Stock%20Exhaust%20Manifold.jpg> I've never heard the stock manifold called headers. My 80 Blazer had headers. Sounded cool. It was a touch expensive when they burned through and had to be replaced. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > An interesting list. I have indicated Australian usage *, which is, as > usual, chooses from both. I have deleted the ones I don't know. >>Bottom gear 1st gear* Although most of our cars (which, of course, are not Australian) mark the gears L, 2, D, where "Low" = bottom or first. SignatureRob Bannister >> An interesting list. I have indicated Australian usage *, which is, >> as usual, chooses from both. I have deleted the ones I don't know. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Although most of our cars (which, of course, are not Australian) mark > the gears L, 2, D, where "Low" = bottom or first. That's for an automatic transmission. With a manual shift the gears are labelled 1, 2, 3, 4, possibly 5, and R. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> An interesting list. I have indicated Australian usage *, which is, >>> as usual, chooses from both. I have deleted the ones I don't know. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >That's for an automatic transmission. With a manual shift the gears are >labelled 1, 2, 3, 4, possibly 5, and R. Increasingly, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, possibly 6, and R. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That must be some time ago - I've only ever known those as an > alternator (and I go back some way). A dynamo (known as a generator in AmE) is not the same as an alternator. They both have the same purpose, but they accomplish it in different ways. SignatureSkitt >>>>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That must be some time ago - I've only ever known those as an > alternator (and I go back some way). A lot of older people were still saying "dynamo" up to at least 1960. "Generator" was also used, but less often. I naturally picked up "dynamo" from dad, but I have some vague memory of a mechanic explaining to me why it had to be "alternator" while I was still at school, so that would be in the 50s. SignatureRob Bannister In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: >>>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >> Only used in common parlance when referring to a bicycle. A petrol [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Not quite true. "Dynamo" was in common parlance for the thing in a car >before they became "alternators". Your sentence reads like it's the parlance that changed (my apologies if that's not what you meant), but actually it's the technology that changed. Cars used to have dynamos (which I'm guessing were called "generators" in the USA). Technology moved on and they now have alternators. UK bicycles also used to have "dynamos". Bicycle dynamos are still made but I don't know whether they're still mainstream. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England On 31 Aug 2007, Mike Barnes wrote > In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > guessing were called "generators" in the USA). Technology moved > on and they now have alternators. My first car in the UK -- a mid-1970s' Renault 4 -- had a dynamo. If you used the lights and wipers at the same time, and regardless of whether you were moving or not, there was a net drain on the battery. I regularly had to bring the battery in for a charge during the winter months. Cars have improved a lot... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "generators" in the USA). Technology moved on and they now have > alternators. Absolutely, but unless my memory has failed again, a lot of older people continued using the old word for some time afterwards. > UK bicycles also used to have "dynamos". Bicycle dynamos are still made > but I don't know whether they're still mainstream. I don't know what they're called, but they must be different. Bikes today seem to produce a much brighter light that flickers on and off. Better, I think, for spotting them when they are approaching you, but useless, I suspect, for finding for them to find their way down a dark country lane. In addition, few bikes seem to have a rear light, so they're still a traffic menace. SignatureRob Bannister In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: >> UK bicycles also used to have "dynamos". Bicycle dynamos are still >>made but I don't know whether they're still mainstream. > >I don't know what they're called, but they must be different. Bikes >today seem to produce a much brighter light that flickers on and off. That's down to the light source rather than the power source. They'll be LEDs, not the old filament bulbs. LEDs consume very little power and so are much more practical for battery operation. > Better, I think, for spotting them when they are approaching you, but >useless, I suspect, for finding for them to find their way down a dark >country lane. They're usually switchable between flashing and continuous. >In addition, few bikes seem to have a rear light, so they're still a >traffic menace. The situation here seems to have improved a lot in recent years, possibly because cycle lighting actually works so much better. IME the main source of danger is the rider in most instances, day or night. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In addition, few bikes seem to have a rear light, so > they're still a traffic menace. From what I've seen, most bicycle owners do fit a flashing red rear lamp - nobody really wants to be run up the khyber by a following car - but it seems to be the first thing that gets stolen. Bicycle lamps are better now than they used to be, but the clip-on design makes it too easy to remove them. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jp9t7Fmm49U2@mid.individual.net> on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:41:43 +0800: > >>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not quite true. "Dynamo" was in common parlance for the thing in a car > before they became "alternators". Generator is generic, dynamo is specifically a DC generator. SignatureNick Spalding >Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jp9t7Fmm49U2@mid.individual.net> > on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:41:43 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Generator is generic, dynamo is specifically a DC generator. In UK usage, perhaps. In North American usage, "generator" is both generic and specific . One of the specific senses was that of a generator in a car or other vehicle. Eventually, AC generators (generic) became the electrical generators (generic) of choice in vehicles, and were called "alternators" (specific). >In UK usage, perhaps. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >generators (generic) of choice in vehicles, and were called >"alternators" (specific). In an entirely unrelated note, gasoline-engine-powered AC generators are getting to be as common in Florida homes as toasters. It's because of the frequent power outages caused by storms and hurricanes. Floridians can make coffee and watch TV when the power goes out, but there are several deaths every year from the exhaust fumes of the engines. We do not have underground utilities in our neighborhood, so we have to put up with short-term outages caused by squirrels getting fried by the pots. (Or whatever those things up on power poles are called) You'd think they'd devise some sort of squirrel-proof pots, but they don't. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On 31 Aug 2007, tony cooper wrote > We do not have underground utilities in our neighborhood, so we > have to put up with short-term outages caused by squirrels > getting fried by the pots. (Or whatever those things up on > power poles are called) You'd think they'd devise some sort of > squirrel-proof pots, but they don't. Maybe it's a convenient way to keep killing the little suckers -- a power outage sounds almost like a reasonable trade-off for eliminating a furry-tailed rat. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed Oleg Lego wrote, in <ia6gd3ldidfprdbpfts0620c4lvvm32v11@4ax.com> on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:41:42 -0600: > >Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jp9t7Fmm49U2@mid.individual.net> > > on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:41:43 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > generators (generic) of choice in vehicles, and were called > "alternators" (specific). But are there dynamos in NA which deliver AC? SignatureNick Spalding >Oleg Lego wrote, in <ia6gd3ldidfprdbpfts0620c4lvvm32v11@4ax.com> > on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:41:42 -0600: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >But are there dynamos in NA which deliver AC? Dynamo, as far as I know, was only ever a jargon term, and only many years ago. I have run across it in older electronic textbooks (military). >Robert Bannister wrote, in <5jp9t7Fmm49U2@mid.individual.net> > on Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:41:43 +0800: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Generator is generic, dynamo is specifically a DC generator. Not in a hydroelectric plant. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Not quite true. "Dynamo" was in common parlance for the thing in a car >before they became "alternators". They are different things. An alternator generates an alternating current (hence the name); the earlier generators created a direct current. I've not heard "dynamo" used for the generator in a car; I am, though, somewhat accustomed to hearing the word "dynamo" used for the huge electrical generators at hydroelectric plants (which generate alternating current). Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > used for the huge electrical generators at hydroelectric plants > (which generate alternating current). Weren't the inefficient old DC ones called "magnetos"? SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > They are different things. An alternator generates an alternating > > current (hence the name); the earlier generators created a direct [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Weren't the inefficient old DC ones called "magnetos"? Magnetos are used with motors that don't have batteries. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >Hatunen wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Weren't the inefficient old DC ones called "magnetos"? When I were first a motorbicyclist, I had a magneto for my sparks, a dynamo for my lights, and nothing for a battery. To stop the engine I pressed a button which earthed the magneto output to the motorcycle frame, and expelled my fillings when it was raining and my leather gauntlets were soaked. Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a contact-breaker-distributor-thingy for the sparks. With no LT, nothing would induce a spark, chiz. When I was married and bought a car, I found that a dynamo wasn't the bee's knees, and an alternator gave more battery-charging oomph at low revs. These had no connection with the C of E's evangelical wing. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >>Hatunen wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >contact-breaker-distributor-thingy for the sparks. With no LT, nothing >would induce a spark, chiz. "Chiz"? >>Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which >>charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a >>contact-breaker-distributor-thingy for the sparks. With no LT, nothing >>would induce a spark, chiz. > >"Chiz"? Think: (a) chisel, swindle or cheat. OED chizz, chiz, n.2 [See CHIZZ v.] A swindle; a nuisance. Also as int. (see quot. 1959). 1953 G. WILLANS Down with Skool! i. 20 More chizzes about headmasters. Ibid. v. 76 It is time we sent Nigel to skool chiz! 1959 I. & P. OPIE Lore & Lang. Schoolchildren ix. 161 The new lamentations 'grue' or 'grooh' (from gruesome) and 'chiz' or 'chiz-chiz' (cross between chisel and swiz ?). 1961 PARTRIDGE Dict. Slang Suppl. 1036/2 'What a chizz!' What a nuisance. C[ent.] 20. chizz, v. [Shortened form of CHISEL v.1] = CHISEL v.1 3. So {sm}chizzer, a swindler; {sm}chizzing vbl. n., cheating. 1935 'N. BLAKE' Question of Proof viii. 154 'I suppose Wemyss wasn't a member of the Black Spot?' 'I should think he jolly well wasn't, slimy little chizzer!' 1948 C. DAY LEWIS Otterbury Incident iv, Toppy was in favour of using a real charity..whose initials could secretly stand for our own charitable object. Ted was against this. He said it was too like chizzing. chisel, v.1 [f. CHISEL n.1 which see for forms. Cf. F. ciseler. (Sense 3 is doubtfully connected.)] 3. colloq. or slang. Also chizzle. To cheat, defraud. to chisel out of: to cheat of. [History obscure: written evidence wanting. Its use at Winchester Coll. in 1821 is vouched for by the Warden of New College (the Rev. Dr. Sewell), and in 1839 by Rev. C. B. Mount. Mr. H. H. Gibbs says, 'quite a current word in England in 1835'.] 1808 JAMIESON, Chizzel, to cheat, to act deceitfully. 1834 C. A. DAVIS Lett. J. Downing 181 You can chizzle them out of their property. 1848 BARTLETT Dict. Amer., To chisel, to cheat, to swindle (comp. To gouge), a Western word..'have chiselled the people of California out of a million of dollars'. 1848 Illust. Lond. News 1 Apr. 220/3 We aint going to be chizzled out of it. 1856 SMYTH (U.S.) Rom. Fam. Coins 245 He muttered something about being 'chiselled' in the transaction. 1863 OUIDA Held in Bondage (1870) 31, I never can stand quiet and see people trying to chisel me. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which >>>charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >Think: (a) chisel, swindle or cheat. Thanks. OneLook only showed it as a surname. The only time I ever heard or used the word (and only spoken, so I had no idea of the spelling), was when I was about 12. "Chiz" was synonymous with semen, and probably (in retrospect), a variation on "jism". >>>>Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which >>>>charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >synonymous with semen, and probably (in retrospect), a variation on >"jism". Used like that at the end of a sentence is probably an allusion to nigel molesworth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Molesworth He conveniently defines it in a footnote very early on: "a chiz is a swiz or a swindle, as any fule kno" SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>>>Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which >>>>charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >synonymous with semen, and probably (in retrospect), a variation on >"jism". ITYF that 'chiz', with the swindle meaning, turns up quite frequently in the Molesworth books. SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. >>>>>Then I became rich and bought a battery bike, which had a dynamo which >>>>>charged a control box which charged the battery, which provided LT to a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >ITYF that 'chiz', with the swindle meaning, turns up quite >frequently in the Molesworth books. Never read one. > 3. colloq. or slang. Also chizzle. To cheat, defraud. to chisel > out of: to cheat of. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mr. H. H. Gibbs says, 'quite a current word in England in > 1835'.] It was famously used recently by Ken Livingstone to describe the US ambassador. Matthew Huntbach >>>>>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Weren't the inefficient old DC ones called "magnetos"? Magnetos are a form of generator but the only context I'm familiar with is wher e used to supply ignition for a gasoline engine. I don't know that they are inefficient, although their function is not to create an electrical supply. In general, all forms of generator are quite efficient, as that term is understood in engineering. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >Magnetos are a form of generator but the only context I'm >familiar with is wher e used to supply ignition for a gasoline >engine. > >I don't know that they are inefficient, although their function >is not to create an electrical supply. That matches the way I was brought up to understand it. Dynamos/Generators/Alternators are intended to be a source of electrical energy that can be accumulated and then distributed to run whatever electrical gizmos as necessary. A magneto on the other hand is designed to deliver a series of short pulses in a very controlled fashion - typically to fire a spark plug. In its crudest form it consists of a rotating disk with a small magnet embedded radially in the rim (i.e. so one pole is on the edge of the disk, the other part way toward the center. This magnet is designed to fly by a small coil on a fixed mount just clear of the disc so that one pulse is emitted per revolution. For a four cylinder engine, there would be four evenly spaced magnets around the periphery etc. In the typical reciprocating aircraft engine, each cylinder will have 2 spark plugs, and there will be 2 independent magnetos, each powering one of the plugs per cylinder. When a piston-engined aircraft takes off, you'll notice that it pauses at the end of its taxi but short of the runway in the "runup" area. Here the second check list is gone through and it includes "running up" the engines (with the brakes firmly on). At some predetermined r.p.m. one of the magnetos with be switched off and any drop in r.p.m. noted and then the process is repeated with the other magneto. If the drop in r.p.m. is noticeable, its time to taxi back and call the mechanic. Jitze >On 28 Aug, 19:29, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >company "phone-system manuals", but I doubt if one-in-a-hundred >readers understand its meaning. Well, the book that they gave me when I was hired explained that if you used the "Camp" button, then your phone would ring when the called party hung up, and the called party's phone would ring after you picked up your phone. I didn't find it that difficult to understand. But it was hardly *universal*. >> > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH >> > tonight". [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Needs care though. Downs are Hills, but a Down is a plateau. I've heard "Churchill Downs" all my life, but I didn't understand that it referred to hills. [snip] SignatureAl in St. Lou > > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. > > No. Bunches are the hasty, or shorter-haired, substitute for pigtails: > no plaiting ("braiding"), just grabbed together with one of those rubber > band things. Think Wendy, of, uhhh, Beefburger fame. DC Mike M filted: >I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so off the mark. I'll >leave the BrE speakers to comment on the following selection of >titbits: This non-BrE would like to chime in on a few of the ones that aren't all that unfamiliar LeftPondSide.... >AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. Not at all foreign in my circle.... >BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. Over here it's a quasi-governmental health insurance organization.... >BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a >restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: We have this one too.... >CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System >(this is not available in the United States). This following quote >from the Hursley Lab Telephone directory will make this term perfectly >clear. It's not often used these days, but it was definitely in use around 1980 for office phone systems.... >DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Again, this is not Pondial.... >QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says >very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to >which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Oddly, the American equivalent is a British reference: "no sh.t, Sherlock".... When the preceding statement is obvious because it happened so long ago, the people I hang out with respond with "Lindy landed".... >TOMMY BAR n. 1. Crow bar. A straight bar used to lever something. That's a "jimmy" in some social strata here...does the British version also admit of a verbal use ("come help me tommy this door into place")?... ("Crowbar", by the way, is one word Stateside)....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > last "O" either). Rare. "Offy" commoner. > AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. No. > AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. No. > BANJO n. 1. A garage sale where children's clothes and toys may be > found. Note: Only much later did we discover this name is simply a > composite of the ladies' names who run the BANJO. It is not a term to > be commonly understood by those people outside Colden Common, HANTS. LOL > BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term > might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something > else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have > this connotation. No. > BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. Fat, period. Sometimes "biffa" as in cartoon character "Biffa Bacon". > BIFFER is the brand name shown on big DUSTBINS. Biffa. Not connected with biffer/biffa. > BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. Well, the UK and US blackbird are different birds (turdus vs icterid). > The English love > BLACKBIRDS. When N.A.S.A. sprayed blackbirds with detergent, some > English bird lovers nearly had apoplexy due to their confusion with > BLACKBIRDS. The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their > suitability for eating (now highly illegal). Bahnhof. > BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. Not widely known. > BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a > restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: Rubbish. > BRANSTON n. 1. Pickle. Type of. > Also known as a BRANNIE pickle. Rare. > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. OK > CAMP-ON n. 1. A feature of the IBM 3750 Telephone Exchange System > (this is not available in the United States). This following quote [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > phone will ring and be connected automatically to the person trying to > contact you." More bahnhof. > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > tonight". LOL Sounds like a Billy-Bunter-ism. > CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. Chipolata. Not like a wiener. > COMBS n. 1. Long-john underwear. The word comes from COMBINATIONS. I wear them every day... > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. Yes, yes, but hardly current English. > This is pronounced > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. No. > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. A bit vague! > DROP HEAD n. 1. Convertible (automobile). Term not really used anymore. > DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Usually the latter. > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. No. > These are also known as SAVOURY > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. True. > To be authentic these should contain > seaweed. I think he's joking. > FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term > has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this > knowledge you will not be surprised to learn that SEVNIGHT is also > used in English and means ... (guess). No. > GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. No. > GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. Usually the latter. > MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Type of meat used for making. > Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply > MINCE. Minced meat, or, usually, mince. > 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff > used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once > made mainly from meat. Not much of a definition. > OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a > car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's > side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. No. > PULL UP A BOLLARD phrase. 1. A friendly invitation to sit down. This > phrase originated with the GOON SHOW which was a famous radio program > in the 1950s. Rare. > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Rarer. > REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. Both. > To > recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular > point". No. > SPLASH n. 1. A small stream which would likely not have a bridge, but > people would simple drive through (i.e. splash through). As in, > "Wilson's B&B is on the corner after the SPLASH." A ford. > SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men > are all talking about SPORT". No. Someone's 'avin' a larf. > STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. Rare. > This is a term used by English > bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. Yes. > TOMMY BAR n. 1. Crow bar. A straight bar used to lever something. Aren't they different things? Adrian Mike M wrote, in <1188316709.945115.290020@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:58:29 -0700: > TOMMY BAR n. 1. Crow bar. A straight bar used to lever something. A tommy bar is quite specifically a bar to fit in a transverse hole in something in order to lever it round, quite distinct from a crow bar which is multi-purpose. SignatureNick Spalding >Mike M wrote, in <1188316709.945115.290020@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:58:29 -0700: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >something in order to lever it round, quite distinct from a crow bar which >is multi-purpose. Agreed, though I have only ever met the term in connection with levers for tubular box spanners. See the "box spanner" entry at: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/scie nce/source/s/p/spanner/boxspanner.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diracdelta.co. uk/science/source/s/p/spanner/source.html&h=192&w=275&sz=18&hl=en&start=3 1&tbnid=R5f2wWHuB2rU0M:&tbnh=80&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522tommy%2B bar%2522%2B%2522box%2Bspanner%2522%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10% 26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-02,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN And if for some surprising reason this wraps uncontrollably on your friendly local newsreader, try http://tinyurl.com/2gqfns It is given there as an alternative to T-bar, perhaps to avoid confusion with debar, foobar, durbar and rebar. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! Paul Wolff wrote, in <z6RJ3qQz4J1GFAvr@fpwolff.demon.co.uk> on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:14:11 +0100: > >Mike M wrote, in <1188316709.945115.290020@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> > > on Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:58:29 -0700: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > friendly local newsreader, try > http://tinyurl.com/2gqfns If you enclose such monsters in angle brackets < > it gives newsreaders a better chance. > It is given there as an alternative to T-bar, perhaps to avoid confusion > with debar, foobar, durbar and rebar. In my first job, with Cable and Wireless, relay contacts had what were called capstan heads on them, cylindrical with two transverse holes through them which we adjusted with little tommy bars giving very precise control over the gaps. SignatureNick Spalding > In my first job, with Cable and Wireless, relay contacts had what were > called capstan heads on them, cylindrical with two transverse holes > through them which we adjusted with little tommy bars giving very precise > control over the gaps. I never came across those types of relays. We had the ones which required a screwdriver and spanner (AmE wrench) for adjustment of the gaps. Such a bloody fiddle: The tightening of the lock-nuts with the spanner/wrench always seemed to disturb the settings obtained using the screwdriver. Cheers, Sage sage wrote, in <AwiBi.265696$5y.225452@newsfe18.lga> on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:07:05 -0400: > > In my first job, with Cable and Wireless, relay contacts had what were > > called capstan heads on them, cylindrical with two transverse holes [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > spanner/wrench always seemed to disturb the settings obtained using the > screwdriver. That was the virtue of the capstan heads, you could hold it really steady while you tightened the lock-nut. You adjusted the make side first to get the core gap right then the break side for the contact gap. SignatureNick Spalding > And if for some surprising reason this wraps uncontrollably on your > friendly local newsreader, try > http://tinyurl.com/2gqfns Ah, but the meaning of c-spanner would definitely be different in the U.S. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the > last "O" either). In my bit of inner-city Manchester we called it the Offy. > AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. Nope - propeller is what I've always heard. > AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine > BIFFER n. 1. Person who is fat due to excessive fast food intake. Yep - pretty recent > BIFFER is the brand name shown on big DUSTBINS. That's BIFFA: http://www.biffa.co.uk/publications/problem/mean1.php I'm not sure the two are connected. 'biffer' is also used for an unattractive woman. cf 'munter' > BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. Well, the New World blackbirds are not entirely similar to the European blackbird. Of course, some of the NW black birds are not entirely like black birds, what with there being a red-winged version, a red-breasted version and a yellow-shouldered version. > The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their > suitability for eating (now highly illegal). Droll. The compiler seeks to rip the piss. We all know the nursery rhyme. I have no idea whether it actually is illegal to eat them, but few people would care. > BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. Blue Cross is a UK animal charity. http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/home/home.asp Non-Blue Cross animal hospitals don't have a blue cross > BOOK v. 1. To reserve. The British never reserve a table at a > restaurant or a room at an hotel, they always BOOK it: Uh huh. > BRANSTON n. 1. Pickle. Yes > Also known as a BRANNIE pickle. Not in my hearing > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. Nope. Pigtails are pigtails, bunches are bunches. Never the twain ... > CHINKY NOSH n. 1. Chinese meal, as in, "We're going to eat CHINKY NOSH > tonight". I've heard it used. It's not common and "Chinese" is the usual term. ditto "Indian" for sub-continental cuisine. Much trouble has been caused by hungry drunks exclaiming "I could murder a Chinese! / an Indian!" at the end of the evening. Mike Harding claimed one of his roadies used the latter expression at the end of a day's filming in the US on a Native American reservation and hilarity failed to ensue for quite some time. > CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. ChipolatA. From It. cipollata > COMBS n. 1. Long-john underwear. The word comes from COMBINATIONS. I know it as "Coms" which reflects the pronunciation. I agree the etymology. Haven't heard the term or seen mention of the garment for decades. > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. Fair enough. Though the crown and the shilling are historical curiosities now. > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. True enough > DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. Uh huh > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain > seaweed. Not sure about the seaweed (are they thinking of laver / lava bread?) but otherwise yes. > FORTNIGHT n. 1. Two weeks. This term is used quite commonly. The term > has its origins in the phrase "fourteen nights". Armed with this > knowledge you will not be surprised to learn that SEVNIGHT is also > used in English and means ... (guess). Fortnight not known over there? MW has it. "Sennight" is the more common spelling. > GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. Dickensian but true > GLASSHOUSE n. 1. Greenhouse. Nah. A greenhouse is a greenhouse. A glasshouse is an Army prison. > MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply > MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff > used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once > made mainly from meat. There ya go > OFFSIDE Adj. 1. The left-hand side of a car, as in, the "OFFSIDE of a > car". The fast lane of a road is on this side of the car. The driver's > side of the car is called the NEARSIDE. IANAD but I thought it was the other way round. ie the 'offside' is the driver's side and is the right hand side here and the left hand side where they drive on the right. > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Yes. If you'd rather not be invited again. > REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. To > recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular > point". I wouldn't agree we use it as in the example - that sounds US to me - but we use "revision" for the process whereby students review (or "revise") their coursework ready for an exam. > SPORT n. 1. The British term for athletics, as in, "I suppose you men > are all talking about SPORT". Nah. "Sport" is the whole schmeer from athletics to, er, some sport beginning with 'z' > STANDING ACCOUNT n. 1. Savings account. This is a term used by English > bankers to confuse Americans. Also known as a DEPOSIT ACCOUNT. Nope. "deposit account" or "savings account". -- John Dean Oxford .. >> OFFO 1. Abbreviation for OFF LICENCE (I don't know how they get the >> last "O" either). > >In my bit of inner-city Manchester we called it the Offy. My experience also. >> AIRSCREW n. 1. Propeller. > >Nope - propeller is what I've always heard. Official terminology. My Mum accounted for them during the war and wondered why they were so much more expensive than wood screws. >> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. > >New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine Not potluck, but one where each guest brings a dish. Unless that is what a 'potluck dinner' means, I interpret 'potluck' as inviting someone to come home and eat whatever happens to be in the fridge. I don't think I've heard 'American dinner' or more frequently 'supper' for many years. ...>> BLUE CROSS n. 1. Sign for an animal hospital. >Blue Cross is a UK animal charity. >http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/home/home.asp >Non-Blue Cross animal hospitals don't have a blue cross Alternatively a kind of sale in which garments ticketed with a blue cross are reduced in some way. ...>> ..>> DYNAMO n. 1. Generator. >Uh huh Most frequently a small one on a bike. >> FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY >> DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain >> seaweed. > >Not sure about the seaweed (are they thinking of laver / lava bread?) but >otherwise yes. I don't think it is so much the meat as the form - a spherical lump. It is usually cooked in gravy and seems to contain more offal than a regular sausage. ... SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. >>> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. >> >>New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine > >Not potluck, but one where each guest brings a dish. Unless that >is what a 'potluck dinner' means, That's what it means in the parts of Canada I am familiar with. > I interpret 'potluck' as >inviting someone to come home and eat whatever happens to be in >the fridge. That's also a meaning, but both context and phrasing differentiate the two. "We are having a potluck dinner/supper/lunch at the church hall." means "Bring a dish." "You're welcome to stay for supper. I hope you don't mind potluck." Means "you will be eating whatever we can dredge up on short notice." It's often, perhaps usually, spelled "pot luck" rather than "potluck". > I don't think I've heard 'American dinner' or more >frequently 'supper' for many years. I am still trying to get used to the difference in "dinner" and "supper" as she is referenced in Saskatchewan, where "dinner" usually means "lunch". >>>> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. >>> New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "We are having a potluck dinner/supper/lunch at the church hall." > means "Bring a dish." Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. In Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. A friend was recounting a wedding where a Quaker was marrying a Jew or a Catholic, or one of those wacky religions, and they decided to have a 'Bring and Share wedding'. The non-Quaker's mum was sure everyone would starve, but the Quaker's mum bought plastic boxes so people could take away the leftovers. That said, if you go to a Quaker bring and share lunch the chances of finding anything edible can be slim; everyone is so concerned to be inclusive that most of the food is sandwiches made from home made bread, having the consistency and nutritional qualities of cardboard, and cheese that tastes of goat turd. > "You're welcome to stay for supper. I hope you don't mind potluck." > Means "you will be eating whatever we can dredge up on short notice." [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "supper" as she is referenced in Saskatchewan, where "dinner" usually > means "lunch". Always a minefield for the unwary. I like 'supper' because it doesn't raise expectations too high. >>>>> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > home made bread, having the consistency and nutritional qualities of > cardboard, and cheese that tastes of goat turd. Taking a pop at three religious groups in one paragraph is a notable achievement. I should point out that, even if Jews alone are involved in any event which involves food, there will inevitably be differences of opinion over the type and quantity of food offered. Ever since the hassle over the tea for our daughter's bat mitzvah (organised jointly with another celebrant's family, who clearly had Quakerish tendencies) I have been worrying about the catering for her wedding. ... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS filted: >> Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. In >> Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. A friend [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Taking a pop at three religious groups in one paragraph is a notable >achievement. 'tis an accomplishment worthy of Tom Lehrer...just a shame you couldn't have saved it for National Brotherhood Week in February....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >Mike Page wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >celebrant's family, who clearly had Quakerish tendencies) I have been >worrying about the catering for her wedding. If it's of any help, and speaking with the experience of having off-loaded another daughter last weekend, leaving the arrangements to the young dears can work quite well. In the sophisticated ambiance of an ecological pavilion in Mile End Park in fashionable east London, an organic buffet arrived (to my surprise delivered from a rather exotic bar in Reading, fifty or so miles westward, which also happens to be a client of mine in another world, which in turn left me wondering if a better deal couldn't have been struck, but there you go...) and the remnants were disposed of at the close of play simply by inviting all guests still standing to help themselves and take it away, which they did, fromage de chèvre and all, and -- pace Mike Page -- never a hint of turd. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! >>> "We are having a potluck dinner/supper/lunch at the church hall." >>> means "Bring a dish." [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Taking a pop at three religious groups in one paragraph is a notable >achievement. I aim to be even handed. 'The Now Show' had a piece a month back in which they very impartially had a go at all three of the great mono-theistic religions and said that they fully expected to get reams of complaints from fundamentalists of each variety. They did. >I should point out that, even if Jews alone are involved in any event >which involves food, there will inevitably be differences of opinion >over the type and quantity of food offered. Ever since the hassle over >the tea for our daughter's bat mitzvah (organised jointly with another >celebrant's family, who clearly had Quakerish tendencies) I have been >worrying about the catering for her wedding. It's the same the world over. When it does come to the wedding, I imagine that you and your daughter will have the odd difference of opinion about several hundred of the organisational details. SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. > Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. In > Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. A friend > was recounting a wedding where a Quaker was marrying a Jew or a > Catholic, or one of those wacky religions, and they decided to have a > 'Bring and Share wedding'. Almost disappointing to read on find that it didn't mean bring your own woman and join in the ceremony. SignatureRob Bannister >> Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. >> In Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. A [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Almost disappointing to read on find that it didn't mean bring your own > woman and join in the ceremony. I assumed it was one of those key parties that one used to hear about, but never get invited to. Fran >>> Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in >>> Britain. In Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I assumed it was one of those key parties that one used to hear > about, but never get invited to. The world is full of interesting stuff that only ever happens to other people. If there's anything to reincarnation, I'm going to buy a programme the next time around. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>> Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in >>>> Britain. In Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >people. If there's anything to reincarnation, I'm going to buy a >programme the next time around. Yeah, that's how my life feels, too. SignatureAl in St. Lou > The world is full of interesting stuff that only ever happens to other > people. If there's anything to reincarnation, I'm going to buy a > programme the next time around. Do born-again Christians get a new horoscope? SignatureRob Bannister >> The world is full of interesting stuff that only ever happens to >> other people. If there's anything to reincarnation, I'm going to >> buy a programme the next time around. > > Do born-again Christians get a new horoscope? I don't think Christians are allowed to have horoscopes. Except, perhaps, those who read the Women's Monthly. They probably get new souls, though, with the old soul going back into the pool of material needed to construct a new baby. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>>> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. >>>> New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. In >Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. I didn't mention sharing, but that's a feature of a pot luck meal. You bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, and it is placed on a table and folks serve themselves, buffet style. > A friend >was recounting a wedding where a Quaker was marrying a Jew or a >Catholic, or one of those wacky religions, and they decided to have a >'Bring and Share wedding'. The non-Quaker's mum was sure everyone would >starve, I have yet to see a pot meal run short of food. It's because everyone brings a dish that is usually enough for 5 or 6 hearty eaters. > but the Quaker's mum bought plastic boxes so people could take >away the leftovers. That said, if you go to a Quaker bring and share >lunch the chances of finding anything edible can be slim; everyone is so >concerned to be inclusive that most of the food is sandwiches made from >home made bread, having the consistency and nutritional qualities of >cardboard, and cheese that tastes of goat turd. A shame. The last pot luck meal I attended had such wondrous things as perogies, cabbage rolls, beet rolls (YUM!), sushi rice salad, mango pudding, chocolate dipped fresh strawberries, all in addition to the "normal" or common things, like potato salad, green salad, ice cream, etc. >I didn't mention sharing, but that's a feature of a pot luck meal. You >bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, and it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >"normal" or common things, like potato salad, green salad, ice cream, >etc. When the kids were small, and we were living in Illinois and in Indiana (at separate times), we owned a VW Camper (aka: Westphalia) and took weekend day trips out in the country. The kids would play or color on the camper's table or nap in the back, and my wife and I would look for antique stores and yard sales where antiques might be found. We also looked for churches that were having pot-lucks. There was no better, or more reasonable, meal on the road than a church supper. The church ladies would try to out-do the other church ladies in bringing their best efforts. Some of the best desserts I've had were at those church suppers. We still have an oak rocking chair purchased at a farm auction in the late 60s. I replaced the original seat-cover material with leather and have re-glued the joints a few times. I sometimes sit in that chair and remember the delicious home-made blackberry pie we had later that day at a church supper. Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those days, a church was the keystone of the social fabric of the American small town. It wasn't there for just the sermon; it was a social center. obAue: I apologize for the awkward marriage of stone and cloth in the above, but I couldn't think of a single key element of fabric. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>I didn't mention sharing, but that's a feature of a pot luck meal. You >>bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, and it [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >obAue: I apologize for the awkward marriage of stone and cloth in the >above, but I couldn't think of a single key element of fabric. Woof! [...] >> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those >> days, a church was the keystone of the social fabric of the American [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Woof! Down, Wover! Social fabric may quite as well be of masonry as of cloth. Better, in fact. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >[...] >>> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Social fabric may quite as well be of masonry as of cloth. Better, in >fact. So the church is one of the building blocks of the social fabric, but some problems may cause it to unravel. Are there concrete examples? Can the church cement the relationships needed in a tightly-woven social environment? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >> [...] >>>> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Can the church cement the relationships needed in a tightly-woven > social environment? I tried to construct a reply, but after "close-knit" I just ran into a brick wall. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> [...] >>>>> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I tried to construct a reply, but after "close-knit" I just ran into a >brick wall. You probably could, but decided not to pull the wool over my eyes by creating references that are not rock-solid. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> [...] >>>>> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I tried to construct a reply, but after "close-knit" I just ran into a >brick wall. Brick walls mean masonry, so roll your trousers up and practise those funny handshakes. SignatureRobin Herts, England >>>> [...] >>>>>> Religion has become a devisive element in the US. But, in those [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Brick walls mean masonry, so roll your trousers up and practise those > funny handshakes. Actually, one of my grandfathers was in the Craft, but he died when I was little, and I've never been invited. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> I didn't mention sharing, but that's a feature of a pot luck meal. >>> You bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Woof! Rather a warped response. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> I didn't mention sharing, but that's a feature of a pot luck meal. You >> bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, and it [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > If you are in Canada's Maritime provinces (NS, NB and PEI), look for the church basement Lobster Suppers. Lots of home-made goodies to accompany the spiders of the sea and very reasonably priced, too -- and, of course, kind, interesting people. Cheers, Sage >If you are in Canada's Maritime provinces (NS, NB and PEI), look for the >church basement Lobster Suppers. Lots of home-made goodies to accompany >the spiders of the sea and very reasonably priced, too -- and, of >course, kind, interesting people. Being a fan of trad music, Nova Scotia - specifically Cape Breton - is very high on my places that I would like to visit next. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>If you are in Canada's Maritime provinces (NS, NB and PEI), look for the >>church basement Lobster Suppers. Lots of home-made goodies to accompany [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Being a fan of trad music, Nova Scotia - specifically Cape Breton - is >very high on my places that I would like to visit next. It's definitely one of Canada's top places to visit for anyone who likes good food, friendly people, and some real toe-tappin' music. [...] > I have yet to see a pot meal run short of food. It's because everyone > brings a dish that is usually enough for 5 or 6 hearty eaters. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> made from home made bread, having the consistency and nutritional >> qualities of cardboard, and cheese that tastes of goat turd. That's a good example of where the Molesworth-style "chiz" would have been used. > A shame. So's that. > The last pot luck meal I attended had such wondrous things as > perogies, cabbage rolls, beet rolls (YUM!), Were they sushi things like this? <http://www.salomon-online.com/en/files/produkte/017.shtml> scrolling about halfway down for "Red Beet Roll". (Note, ObAUE, AmE use of "beetroot".) [...] SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com .. >>Pace John Dean, I don't think you'd be widely understood in Britain. In >>Quaker circles, the phrase would be 'Bring and Share Lunch'. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I have yet to see a pot meal run short of food. It's because everyone >brings a dish that is usually enough for 5 or 6 hearty eaters. I've attended a number of such does with Quaker connections where quantity has been a problem as well as quality. Most embarrassingly my choir (Quaker/CND origins) was hosting a visit from a French choir with which we have an periodic exchange. An evening 'do', a barn dance, was bring and share with the UK hosts supposed to bring enough to feed the French as well. All the edible food (as opposed to the goat turn variety) ran out before the French had been fed, let alone their hosts. It would have been even worse if we hadn't anticipated the problem to a certain extent and brought food for at least twenty. >> but the Quaker's mum bought plastic boxes so people could take >>away the leftovers. That said, if you go to a Quaker bring and share [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"normal" or common things, like potato salad, green salad, ice cream, >etc. I find the main shortage is of anything with meat content. There are usually lots of 'imaginative' salads - some inspired, some expired. SignatureMike Page Who has a space after the two dashes in his sig. separator, honest. >>>>>> AMERICAN DINNER n. 1. A potluck dinner. >>>>> New to me. "potluck" has always worked fine [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > bring a dish, be it salad or casserole or dessert or whatever, and it > is placed on a table and folks serve themselves, buffet style. In my neck of the woods, it's a "Jacob's Join". Not a phrase I'd heard before moving up here, but the same principle. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > In my neck of the woods, it's a "Jacob's Join". Not a phrase I'd heard > before moving up here, but the same principle. My wife, from Nelson, Lancashire, used it, too. Cheers, Sage >> In my neck of the woods, it's a "Jacob's Join". Not a phrase I'd >> heard before moving up here, but the same principle. > > My wife, from Nelson, Lancashire, used it, too. It's obviously regional, then. Since, crow-flyingly, I'm not far from there. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: > > http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php > > I don't think I've ever seen anything quite so off the mark. I looked at it and it was ok - bit dated now, but it's acknowledged to be 1983 vintage. Given the number of examples, there's bound to a a few that are off. In some cases, it's off because he's trying to be funny, or someone else was trying to be funny to him but he didn't pick it up, in others it's stuff that wasn't current even in 1983. > I'll leave the BrE speakers to comment on the following selection of > titbits: A few comments on these: > BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term > might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something > else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have > this connotation. A much more common usage before McDs came to the UK. From "hamburger" came e.g. "lambburger", thus the supposition that as "Xburger" meant a flattened reshaped piece of minced X meat, thus "beefburger" since one might then suppose "hamburger" was made of ham. McDs re-established "hamburger" as made of beef. > BLACKBIRD n. 1. A bird QUITE unlike a blackbird. The English love > BLACKBIRDS. When N.A.S.A. sprayed blackbirds with detergent, some > English bird lovers nearly had apoplexy due to their confusion with > BLACKBIRDS. The British love of BLACKBIRDS stems mainly from their > suitability for eating (now highly illegal). Also, of course, ROBIN n. 1 A bird QUITE unlike a robin. I think the last sentence was meant humorously. The English love blackbirds because they are commonly found in back-gardens, and are quite cute birds (the hen and cock are quite distinct visually, and it's easy to anthropomorphise them when you see Mr and Mrs Blackbird anxiously searching around for a nest site (they often choose silly ones) then bringing up their brood). > BUNCHES n. 1. Pigtails. I thought this should be PIGTAILS n. 1. Bunches > CHIPOLATE n. 1. A sausage-like a wiener. Should be CHIPOLATA (but I think either the P or T or maybe both should be doubled). > CROWN n. 1. Five shillings. A quarter of a POUND. This is pronounced > "croin" by members of the COUNTY set. The word was only ever used for the coin, not for the amount of money, and the coin went out of common circulation around the beginning of the 20th century, essentially the British version of the US silver dollar. The half-crown, however, remained in circulation as a two-and- a-half shilling coin (two shillings and sixpence) oddly alongside the two-shilling coin. > DOWNS n. 1. Hills. "Downs" is not a general word for hills. There are two big ranges of hills to the south of London, the "North Downs" and the "South Downs". This is the only context in which the words are used (there is also "Epsom Downs", but that's part of the North Downs). I suppose it could be said from his that "downs" means hills like these i.e. rounded, and covered in grass or bushes. > FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY > DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain > seaweed. Never heard of "Savoury ducks", does he mean the "seaweed" bit only to refer to these? The word is thought to be a bit funny, especially now we are aware of its US meaning. There are one or two varieties sold commercially, but it's not a common foodstuff now. > GAMP n. 1. Umbrella. Surely not used in 1983, did he come across this in some old book? > MINCEMEAT n. 1. Hamburger. Alternatives are MINCE MEAT or simply > MINCE. 2. Mincemeat as used in mince pies. Note that the sweet stuff > used for filling pies has evolved from a pie filling that was once > made mainly from meat. "Mincemeat" is the sweet stuff, "mince" is the meat. > QUEEN ANNE'S DEAD phrase. 1. Duh! 2. The response to someone who says > very obvious. One might hear that "it rains a lot in England", to > which you reply "QUEEN ANNE IS DEAD". Another one he must have got out of an old book, not current in 1983. > REVISE v. 1. Not to change something, but to review it. To > recapitulate. As in, to ask a speaker to "REVISE on a particular > point". Can be used to mean "to change something", is also used to mean what students do before exams (i.e. frantically read without understanding ...). Just one other thing: LOO n. 1. Toilet. I thought it was TOILET n 1. Washroom Matthew Huntbach >On 28 Aug, 16:58, Mike M <mikmoo...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >This is the only context in which the words are used (there is also >"Epsom Downs", but that's part of the North Downs). I protest, sir. Downs are valid throughout Wessex. I only have to look over my shoulder as I type to see the Berkshire Downs on whose spring line I live, and on which Wayland had his smithy; and there are the Lambourn Downs and Marlborough Downs -- very well, perhaps the former are part of the Berkshire Downs -- and more to the west and to the south of here. There are any number of downs on Salisbury Plain -- I can recite Haxton Down, Pewsey Down, Wilsford Down, , Knighton Down, Summer Down -- and has anyone not heard of Watership Down, in what I'd call the North Hampshire Downs -- not to mention variants like Haydown Hill. If downs must be defined, we could say they were the rounded turfed chalk prominences of southern England. >I suppose it could >be said from his that "downs" means hills like these i.e. rounded, and >covered in grass or bushes. I see I've just agreed, apart from the bushes. Stunted may (hawthorn) seems to be the standard bush-cum-tree[1] for downland heights, though their hollows may have clay for oak or beech. [1] One day I shall see a chorlton-cum-hardy and recognise it for the hybrid it is. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > >> DOWNS n. 1. Hills. > >"Downs" is not a general word for hills. There are two big ranges of > >hills to the south of London, the "North Downs" and the "South Downs". > >This is the only context in which the words are used (there is also > >"Epsom Downs", but that's part of the North Downs). > I protest, sir. Downs are valid throughout Wessex. I only have to look > over my shoulder as I type to see the Berkshire Downs on whose spring [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If downs must be defined, we could say they were the rounded turfed > chalk prominences of southern England. Yes, I began to think of a few more after posting the above. Nevertheless, it's not a productive word in the sense you can point to some hills and say those are "downs". It can only be used in the context of proper names in which the word "downs" occurs. > >I suppose it could > >be said from his that "downs" means hills like these i.e. rounded, and > >covered in grass or bushes. > I see I've just agreed, apart from the bushes. Stunted may (hawthorn) > seems to be the standard bush-cum-tree[1] for downland heights, though > their hollows may have clay for oak or beech. Hawthorn yes, also gorse for the South Downs. Samuel Johnson described these glorious hills as so depressing they'd make a man want to hang himself if only he could find a tree to do it from - they didn't like nature in those days. The North Downs, however, are much more wooded. Matthew Huntbach >> I've seen several of these, but only recently stumbled across: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > might then suppose "hamburger" was made of ham. McDs re-established > "hamburger" as made of beef. But when people talk about what they're going to eat, they talk about beefburgers, not hamburgers. It's only in the context of McD that people talk about hamburgers, really. And not all the time then. [snip] >> FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY >> DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we are aware of its US meaning. There are one or two varieties sold > commercially, but it's not a common foodstuff now. Oh, I don't know. It's not uncommon in the not-south! SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>> BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term >>> might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not something >>> else like soybeans or turkey gizzards, the British term does not have >>> this connotation. >> A much more common usage before McDs came to the UK. From "hamburger" >> came e.g. "lambburger", thus the supposition that as "Xburger" meant a >> flattened reshaped piece of minced X meat, thus "beefburger" since one >> might then suppose "hamburger" was made of ham. McDs re-established >> "hamburger" as made of beef. > But when people talk about what they're going to eat, they talk about > beefburgers, not hamburgers. It's only in the context of McD that people > talk about hamburgers, really. And not all the time then. Our generation, maybe. Not so sure about the next. >>> FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY >>> DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should contain >>> seaweed. >> Never heard of "Savoury ducks", does he mean the "seaweed" bit only to >> refer to these? The word is thought to be a bit funny, especially now >> we are aware of its US meaning. There are one or two varieties sold >> commercially, but it's not a common foodstuff now. > Oh, I don't know. It's not uncommon in the not-south! The very first UK page Google throws up for it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2698507.stm describes it as a "forgotten dish". Do northern supermarkets have whole shelves of them? I guess not, I rather suspect like the south, you could find the one reasonably well-known brand if you looked hard. Matthew Huntbach >>>> BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term >>>> might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Our generation, maybe. Not so sure about the next. Pretty sure about the next. Certainly the members of it that I know. >>>> FAGGOT n. 1. A sausage-like meat. These are also known as SAVOURY >>>> DUCKS in some areas of Britain. To be authentic these should [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > rather suspect like the south, you could find the one reasonably > well-known brand if you looked hard. And yet... I have friends who had faggots for dinner just last nice. After explaining to their daughter that they weren't having maggots. Not in the north, either. >>>>> BEEFBURGER n. 1. Hamburger. Unlike in the U.S. where now this term >>>>> might be used to denote a hamburger made from beef and not [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >explaining to their daughter that they weren't having maggots. Not in the >north, either. "Savoury Duck" is what faggots are called in counties north of the midlands. According to COD, authentic faggots should be made from seasoned, chopped liver. What most people in the south call faggots are probably rissoles or simply meat balls. SignatureRobin Herts, England > But when people talk about what they're going to eat, they talk about > beefburgers, not hamburgers. It's only in the context of McD that > people talk about hamburgers, really. And not all the time then. Australia had hamburgers (made with beef) long before Maccas came on the scene. Not only that, but we're included to use the word "hamburger" only for real hamburgers, and use different names (e.g. Big Mac) for the cardboard replicas. I'd go as far as to say that we use "beefburger" only for the home-made ones. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> But when people talk about what they're going to eat, they talk about >> beefburgers, not hamburgers. It's only in the context of McD that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd go as far as to say that we use "beefburger" only for the > home-made ones. The only place I've seen "beefburger" is on packets of frozen discoid things in the supermarket. They don't look like there's much meat in them. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> But when people talk about what they're going to eat, they talk about >>> beefburgers, not hamburgers. It's only in the context of McD that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The only place I've seen "beefburger" is on packets of frozen discoid > things in the supermarket. They don't look like there's much meat in them. Just what I was going to say. "Beefburger" means frozen meat-like thing. SignatureRob Bannister >> The only place I've seen "beefburger" is on packets of frozen discoid >> things in the supermarket. They don't look like there's much meat in >> them. > > Just what I was going to say. "Beefburger" means frozen meat-like > thing. The more tenuous the meaty qualities, the more need there is for the marketing people to put "beef" or "meat" in the product name. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au On 06 Sep 2007, Matthew Huntbach wrote >> DOWNS n. 1. Hills. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are used (there is also "Epsom Downs", but that's part of the > North Downs). Hmmmm....a tad SE-centric, methinks. I'm fairly certain that both the Wiltshire Downs and the North Hampshire Downs (including Watership, amongst others) are normally considered quite separate areas from the "North Downs". SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed |
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