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Discussion Groups / English Usage / September 2007Ping: LFS
This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with a vested interest in various local issues. A bit more formal than a "Letter to the Editor". This one's on internal auditing. obAue: Interesting phrase: vested interest. http://www.joe-ks.com/phrases/phrasesV.htm I wonder if our UK readers think that it means a liking for male undergarments for the top half.  SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with > a vested interest in various local issues. A bit more formal than a > "Letter to the Editor". > > This one's on internal auditing. Thank you. The author has a vested interest in plugging his professional body. I have spent much of today listening to leaders of my profession discussing audit quality and I have been puzzling over the difference in meaning between quality and effectiveness. I think that effectiveness implies objectives against which effectiveness may be measured whereas quality is rather more abstract. I'd be interested to know what others here may think. > obAue: Interesting phrase: vested interest. > http://www.joe-ks.com/phrases/phrasesV.htm I wonder if our UK readers > think that it means a liking for male undergarments for the top half. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [ ... ] > Thank you. The author has a vested interest in plugging his professional > body. Which reminds me: Louisiana Senator David Vitter has not resigned. Contrariwise, Larry Craig has. Comments? [ ... ] SignatureMun Bui > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > [ ... ] I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually resigned now? Fran > I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his > intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually > resigned now? Like me, you get the impression that we're getting these long good-byes? Alberto Gonzales: resigns August 28, 2007, effective as of September 17th, 2007. Donald Rumsfeld: Nov. 7, 2006, took effect December 18, 2006. Maybe federal resignations have always been this way, but I'm doubtful. I imagine it's convenient for the administration. Maybe they just seem long compared to the way heads roll in the British cabinet? Scandal? Failure? Pow! SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his >> intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Maybe they just seem long compared to the way heads roll in the > British cabinet? Scandal? Failure? Pow! In my civil service /milieu/ when one left, the gov't would pay cash for a limited amount of accrued leave of the medical, vacation, or compensatory-time varieties. If one had accrued any surplus beyond the negotiated numbers, they would be served out as an employee before actual termination occurred. I retired and quit working two or three weeks prior to my "effective" termination date, as the extra vacation and comp-time ran out. The County paid me for a great amount of sick leave, but I still donated several thousand dollars worth to the treasury, as contrasted to a few I knew who took a sick day or two a week for six months and came out "even". If I were a government I wouldn't want it noised about that some senior official collected pay, and the new guy couldn't begin working, while the position was neither vacant, nor producing anything for the money spent. SignatureFrank ess >>I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his >>intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Maybe they just seem long compared to the way heads roll in the British > cabinet? Scandal? Failure? Pow! Perhaps that is so: it seems to me that public servants who are found with their hand in the till, or in some other place where it shouldn't have been, should resign simply, and then clean out their desks the same day. Instead we see people clinging to their position long after any person with a shred of honour or decency would have left to "spend more time with their family" or to "explore other opportunities". Fran >> I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his >> intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually >> resigned now? > >Like me, you get the impression that we're getting these long good-byes? It takes time to shred all those incriminating documents. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >> I heard Mr Craig's statement yesterday, in which he announced his >> intention to resign before the end of September. Has he actually [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Maybe they just seem long compared to the way heads roll in the > British cabinet? Scandal? Failure? Pow! I give you Tony Blair, who told us last year, I think, that he was going to tell us soon that he was going to resign sometime in 2007. If you want a long goodbye, that's got to be up there. > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Comments? The consensus seems to be that Craig will be replaced by a Republican governor, while Vitter's governor is a Democrat and would appoint a Democrat if Vitter gave him the chance by resigning. Gotta love that moral clarity. --Jeff Signature"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight Eisenhower > > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the > > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with > > a vested interest in various local issues. A bit more formal than a > > "Letter to the Editor". Is it the same as an Op-Ed? > > This one's on internal auditing. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > quality is rather more abstract. I'd be interested to know what others > here may think. I'd have guessed that quality was freedom from mistakes (as in "quality control" and all the variations of that phrase), and effectiveness might be providing the information required by regulators or the people who ordered the audit. But what do I know? -- Jerry Friedman >> > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >> > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with >> > a vested interest in various local issues. A bit more formal than a >> > "Letter to the Editor". > >Is it the same as an Op-Ed? I don't think so. I think "Op-Ed" is short for Opinion-Editorial in which the *editors* express their opinion. In the "My Word" pieces, it's a member of the public expressing an opinion. In the Sentinel's layout, the editorials, the editorial cartoon, and the letters to the editor are all on one page. On a facing page are the columnists (professional columnists) and (if someone has written one) a "My Word" column. I could submit a "My Word" column. For it to be accepted, it would have to of more substance than just a letter to the editor. It could be a personal opinion or observation, but it would have to be more of an essay than a letter. They do print "My Word" columns from people who are not recognized experts in a field and people who do not have a vested interest in an issue. They usually do, but there are exceptions. That makes it possible for me to write a column and have it published, but it would have to be something that really catches an editor's eye. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >>> > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I don't think so. I think "Op-Ed" is short for Opinion-Editorial in >which the *editors* express their opinion. I thought that Op stood for "Opposite". CALD says: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=55571&dict=CALD op-ed adjective [before noun] US describes a piece of writing which expresses a personal opinion and is usually printed in a newspaper opposite the page on which the editorial is printed: an op-ed article/column/page SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >>>>>Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the editorial is printed: > an op-ed article/column/page I read the New York Times headlines every day, so I've come across the strange word. However, I had guessed it to mean "opinion editorial". SignatureRob Bannister >>>>>>This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >>>>>>Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I read the New York Times headlines every day, so I've come across the >strange word. However, I had guessed it to mean "opinion editorial". It's a reasonable guess because the pieces are expressions of personal opinions. However, according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editorial An editorial is a phrase or article by a news organization, newspaper or magazine that expresses the opinion of the editor, editorial board, or publisher. An op-ed, abbreviated from opposite editorial due to the tradition of newspapers placing such materials on the page opposite the editorial page, is similar in form and content to an editorial, but represents the opinion of an individual contributor, who is sometimes but not always affiliated with the publication. ...the first modern op-ed page is generally attributed to the New York Times, which initiated its page on September 21, 1970, under editorial page editor John B. Oakes. Oakes had argued for the page's creation for ten years; when it appeared it instantly became one of the paper's most popular features. At the time, Oakes wrote that his motive in creating the page was to provide a forum for non-Times employees to have their say. Op-eds seem to be such normal components[1] of a newspaper that I'm surprised to see how comparatively recent they are. [1] I originally wrote "features" but that would have led to confusion. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > An editorial is a phrase or article by a news organization, > newspaper or magazine that expresses the opinion of the editor, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Op-eds seem to be such normal components[1] of a newspaper that I'm >surprised to see how comparatively recent they are. I may be wrong about the meaning of Op-Ed being "Opnion-Editorial", but the above information doesn't jibe with the newspaper I read. The Orlando Sentinel's layout is editorials, editorial cartoon, and letters to the editor are on one page, and the facing page contains columns by syndicated columnists and, if there is one, a "My Word" column by a local person. That means that opinions of non-affiliated people are on both pages. The Sentinel does not use the term "Op-Ed". They title the left page "Opinion" and the facing page "Other Views". However, I've sent an email to an editor of the Orlando Sentinel asking for his opinion. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On 04 Sep 2007, tony cooper wrote >> An editorial is a phrase or article by a news organization, >> newspaper or magazine that expresses the opinion of the editor, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > columnists and, if there is one, a "My Word" column by a local > person. That's not very relevant these days, though. I've always known the origin of "Op-Ed" (for some reason), but whilst it started life as a literal statement of the position of the comment pieces, the term was fairly quickly transferred to the type of item (rather than its location). Happens a lot, of course. In the tabloids, "Mandy, aged 19", who loves animals, world peace, and posing without her shirt, would be called a "Page 3 girl" regardless of the actual number of the page her picture is printed on. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >I may be wrong about the meaning of Op-Ed being "Opnion-Editorial", >but the above information doesn't jibe with the newspaper I read. The [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >However, I've sent an email to an editor of the Orlando Sentinel >asking for his opinion. This is the reply from the Sentinel editor: Thank you for your question. "Op-ed," as noted by the discussion participant, refers to material on the page facing the editorial page -- hence "opposite editorial". Manning Pynn Public Editor The Orlando Sentinel The "discussion participant" was Peter Duncanson. I included his response in my email to Mr Pynn. Horse's mouth. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On 04 Sep 2007, tony cooper wrote >> I may be wrong about the meaning of Op-Ed being >> "Opnion-Editorial", but the above information doesn't jibe with [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Horse's mouth. (unbearably smug voice) Some of us knew this already. (/unbearably smug voice) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 04 Sep 2007, tony cooper wrote > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >(/unbearably smug voice) Will we ever hear the last of this smugness? <wink> SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 04 Sep 2007, Peter Duncanson wrote >> On 04 Sep 2007, tony cooper wrote >>> Horse's mouth. >> (unbearably smug voice) >> Some of us knew this already. >> (/unbearably smug voice) > > Will we ever hear the last of this smugness? <wink> Not. If. I. Have. Any. Say. In. The. Matter..... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed Earlier, Tony Cooper cited: > Thank you for your question. "Op-ed," as noted by the discussion > participant, refers to material on the page facing the editorial page [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Public Editor > The Orlando Sentinel *Public* editor? SignatureMark Brader | "[These] articles should be self-explanatory. Toronto | If they *don't* explain themselves, msb@vex.net | you'll have to read them." -- Michael Wares >Earlier, Tony Cooper cited: >> Thank you for your question. "Op-ed," as noted by the discussion [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >*Public* editor? Yes. A growing trend with US newspapers. I'll quote Wiki in full since it's a short quote: "The job of the public editor is to supervise the implementation of proper journalism ethics at a newspaper, and to identify and examine critical errors or omissions, and to act as a liaison to the public. They do this primarily through a regular feature on a newspaper's editorial page. The position of the public editor is paradoxical, as they are generally employees of the newspaper. However, as a valuable symbol of a high standard of ethics for a newspaper, the firing of a public editor over any criticisms they might have would contradict their purpose. Many major newspapers in the U.S. use the public editor column as the voice for their Ombudsman, though this is not always so. Public Editor columns cover a broader scope of issues and do not have an accredidation process, while in order to qualify as an ombudsman of any standing one must be a member of the Organisation of News Ombudsmen. At The New York Times, the position was created in response to the Jayson Blair scandal. The Times' first public editor was Daniel Okrent, who held the position from December 2003 through May 2005. Okrent's successor was Byron Calame. The current public editor is Clark Hoyt." SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >> Earlier, Tony Cooper cited: >>> Thank you for your question. "Op-ed," as noted by the discussion [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > any standing one must be a member of the Organisation of News > Ombudsmen. [...] I'm wondering if any public editor would find solace in avoiding an accredidation (sic) process, or strive to encourage and survive one. Sounds kind of brutal to me. SignatureFrank ess Mark Brader: >> *Public* editor? Tony Cooper: > Yes. Well, I didn't think the man got his own title wrong. (At least, I'm guessing that "Manning" is a man's name.) > A growing trend with US newspapers... > > "The job of the public editor is to supervise the implementation of > proper journalism ethics at a newspaper, and to identify and examine > critical errors or omissions, and to act as a liaison to the public..." Oh, an ombudman. Now sometimes called an "ombud" among those unconfortable with the suffix -man. > Many major newspapers in the U.S. use the public editor column as the > voice for their Ombudsman, though this is not always so. Public Editor > columns cover a broader scope of issues ... Hmm. SignatureMark Brader | The chief use to which we put our love of the truth is Toronto | in persuading ourselves that what we love is true. msb@vex.net | -- Pierre Nicole, c.1675 [...] > Oh, an ombudman. Now sometimes called an "ombud" among those > unconfortable with the suffix -man. The ombudspeople are already among us: <http://www.mcgill.ca/ombudsperson/> "Welcome! The Office of the Ombudsperson for students offers confidential, informal, independent, and neutral dispute resolution services to all members of the student community by providing information, advice, intervention and referrals." [...] SignatureLes > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > [...] The Grauniad one's called "The readers' editor". On "ombudsman" I've seen a Welsh version which avoided the pollution of Heaven's Language with English by coining "ombudsdyn". SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Mark Brader: > > Oh, an ombudman. Now sometimes called an "ombud" among those > > unconfortable with the suffix -man. Typo. I meant "ombudsman" in the first sentence. Leslie Danks: > The ombudspeople are already among us: Danks for that! SignatureMark Brader I'm not pompous; I'm pedantic. Toronto Let me explain it to you. msb@vex.net --Mary Kay Kare > Earlier, Tony Cooper cited: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > *Public* editor? The New York Times has a "public editor", apparently as a result of the Jayson Blair scandal some years ago. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_editor "The job of the public editor is to supervise the implementation of proper journalism ethics at a newspaper..." Fran On Sep 3, 8:00 pm, "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the > > > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > effectiveness might be providing the information required by > regulators or the people who ordered the audit. But what do I know? I was QA auditor at our ISO-9000/TickIT software company for the first three years of my employment, so I know a little about this. I think you're more or less right - the "quality" consists in adherence to the standard, as interpreted in the company's QA Manual. This document sets out how the company intends to comply with the incredibly (and necessarily) vague and, since we're in SDC time, woolly terms of the standard. The effectiveness is whether anything is actually achieved by compliance in terms of the value to the business, since adherence to a standard with no "added value" (eww!) is patently pointless. Or something. I passed on the poisoned chalice years ago. Will. >I have spent much of today listening to leaders of my profession >discussing audit quality and I have been puzzling over the difference in >meaning between quality and effectiveness. I think that effectiveness >implies objectives against which effectiveness may be measured whereas >quality is rather more abstract. I'd be interested to know what others >here may think. Sounds right to me. A quality audit is one that is carried out very well irrespective of whether it achieves any effects. An effective audit is one that leads to better management of assets, irrespective of the quality to which it is carried out. One can imagine an exemplary audit of paperclips, or a rough and ready count of the number of company cars. Of course, to be effective in reaching regulatory standards, an audit may also have to be of good quality. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>I have spent much of today listening to leaders of my profession >>discussing audit quality and I have been puzzling over the difference in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Sounds right to me. A quality audit is one that is carried out very >well irrespective of whether it achieves any effects. Well yes, but. A "Quality Audit" is an audit of a quality (control/assurance) system. See Wikipedia and: http://www.praxiom.com/iso-10011-1.htm > An effective >audit is one that leads to better management of assets, irrespective of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Of course, to be effective in reaching regulatory standards, an audit >may also have to be of good quality. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with >a vested interest in various local issues. A bit more formal than a >"Letter to the Editor". > >This one's on internal auditing. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/letters/orl-myword03a07sep03,0,76117 21.story I don't see where I included a link to the article, so it's above. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the > Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.joe-ks.com/phrases/phrasesV.htm I wonder if our UK readers > think that it means a liking for male undergarments for the top half. This page reads: "Special clothing or uniforms worn to show that one has a right to be what they claim to be, that they have been invested in a certain rank. . . . By the 18th century, 'vested' had come to mean 'established', definitely assigned to something or someone. By the 19th century, vested interest had become a legal term meaning a right to property, and from there it was transferred to mean a personal involvement or stake in something." These definitions appear completely wrong. 1. Vested interest has nothing to do with clothing. The etymological root may be the same (cf. vestments to mean a priest's clothing) but "vested" has nothing to do with uniforms -- the point being that a corporal or a colonel is a corporal or a colonel even when wearing civilian dress, not uniform. 2. Economic vested interests are those you cannot escape. E.g. a railroad tycoon has a vested interest in the price of coal or other locomotive fuel, even if he might prefer that his fuel were free. Modern business language developed at the time of Charles Dickens, who wrote often about vested interests. E.g. slumlords have a vested interest that no health laws prohibit crowding tenants together in unsanitary conditions. By contrast, you living next door to a cholera-ridden water pump have the strongest interest in shutting it down and ending the risk of epidemic. But this is not a "vested interest" because yoou are free to escape it, by moving to live somewhere else. By contrast, a tenant already in debt to the slumlord has a vested interest in local conditions, because he cannot escape them. If your savings are tied up in long-term Ford bonds, you have a vested interest in Ford's welfare even if you prefer a Buick. The Orlando Sentinel already knows that writers with vested interests are likely to be based writers. The problem may be that the editor of the My Word column does not use his dictionary. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > The Orlando Sentinel already knows that writers with vested > interests are likely to be based writers. The problem may be that the > editor of the My Word column does not use his dictionary. In general, I agree with your points. On the other hand, I think you mean "biased writers"? Oui? Cheers, Sage >> This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >> Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >other locomotive fuel, even if he might prefer that his fuel >were free. >The Orlando Sentinel already knows that writers with vested >interests are likely to be based I know you meant "biased". > writers. The problem may be that the >editor of the My Word column does not use his dictionary. The Sentinel editors have not brought up the "vested interest" aspect. I did. That's my description of the people who normally are published in the "My Word" space. And, I think I used the term correctly. For example, Harris Rosen recently wrote a "My Word" column on the distribution of the proceeds from the hotel taxes taking the position that the monies should be used to attract tourists to the area and not to use the monies on cultural venues that primarily benefit the local residents. Mr Rosen is the owner of several hotels in the International Drive area (read: tourist area) and therefore has a vested interest in how the hotel tax revenues are spent. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>This might be of interest to you. The "Orlando Sentinel", on the >>Editorial Pages, accepts "My Word" columns from experts or people with [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > corporal or a colonel is a corporal or a colonel even when wearing > civilian dress, not uniform. Interesting theory. I had assumed it was more closely connected to "invested", although I suppose even that goes back to clothing. SignatureRob Bannister |
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