 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Intro G: Where is the FAQ?
[Posted by Mark Brader on behalf of Donna Richoux during her absence.] Last Revised 2003-08-16 (16 Aug 2003) ~~~~~~~~~~ Contents ~~~~~~~~~~ I. Recommended Resources for Newcomers 1. Where can you find the AUE Website? 2. What will you find at the AUE Website? II. Other versions of Mark Israel's FAQ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I. Recommended Resources for Newcomers ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Newcomers to alt.usage.english are strongly advised to make use of the AUE Website documents, links for which can all be found on a single page. 1. Where can you find the AUE Website? http://alt-usage-english.org/ 2. What will you find at the AUE Website? -- Introduction to alt.usage.english A series of seven documents that are posted regularly in the newsgroup alt.usage.english, approximately one every two days. The current titles in the series are: - Intro A: Welcome to AUE and Guidelines for Posting - Intro B: Useful Web Sites for AUE Participants - Intro C: Mini-FAQ on Words and Phrases - Intro D: Mini-FAQ on Grammar, Usage and Punctuation - Intro E: Mini-FAQ on Spelling - Intro F: AUE FAQ Contents - Intro G: Where is the FAQ? -- A link to Mark Israel's AUE FAQ The AUE FAQ is a large document edited by Mark Israel <MarkIsrael@english-usage.com> and was last extensively updated by him in September 1997. He has recently updated a number of obsolete URLs in the FAQ, and has installed the updated version, which is in HTML format, at his Web site, <http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html>. This version uses HTML to link the various sections and to make recommended URLs "live." (For other versions of this document, see Section II, below.) -- Fast-Access FAQ The quickest way to use Mark Israel's FAQ. Find desired entry in the Table of Contents, click, and see that section only. Saves loading time. (The Fast-Access FAQ files have updated URLs.) -- AUE FAQ Supplement Numerous topics not covered in Mark Israel's FAQ. Please submit entries to <aue-webmaster@alt-usage-english.org>. -- a link to www.yaelf.com, an "alternative FAQ" that specializes in news stories on language, and recent research. -- "Search This Site" This link offers two methods to search for topics in the Fast-Access FAQ, AUE FAQ Supplement, Intro docs, and everything else at the Web site. Plus, it searches a number of other sites on words and language. -- The Audio Archives (primarily to study regional pronunciations) -- The guide to learning ASCII IPA notation -- Links to other useful resources -- What's New Has anything changed since you last visited the site? Look here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ II. Other versions of Mark Israel's FAQ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following notes are based on "Places to find Mark Israel's AUE FAQ" <http://www.alt-usage-english.org/wheres_the_faq.html> -- Original FAQ, no hypertext: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt-usage-english-faq This file is a plain ASCII version of the FAQ, exactly as posted by the author, Mark Israel. It contains no hypertext links; some people don't want them. -- Partial hypertext FAQ: <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usage/english/original/> This is a hypertext file, but only to the extent that it has links to external sites. There are no links to provide navigation within the FAQ document. FAQs uploaded to news.answers are automatically archived at the first of the above two sites. They are then automatically converted to HTML format and installed at the second.  SignatureComments and corrections to these "Intro Documents" should be emailed to: Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> > [Posted by Mark Brader on behalf of Donna Richoux during her absence.] Hey, what happened to Donna? I was all set to ask her about the Batavian Republic! http://flagspot.net/flags/nl-batav.html Jim Ward: > Hey, what happened to Donna? She *says* she's "visiting relatives" until January 1. Sounds like an awfully convenient excuse to me -- you know, a perfect cover. I mean, isn't this exactly a time of year when people commonly *do* that? But I suppose that when her *actual* nefarious plan is revealed, it'll be too late to do anything about it. Do you think we need to call for a preemptive attack to stop her? SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Suspicion breeds confidence." msb@vex.net -- BRAZIL My text in this article is in fun and the public domain. > She *says* she's "visiting relatives" until January 1. Sounds like an > awfully convenient excuse to me -- you know, a perfect cover. I mean, > isn't this exactly a time of year when people commonly *do* that? But > I suppose that when her *actual* nefarious plan is revealed, it'll be > too late to do anything about it. Do you think we need to call for a > preemptive attack to stop her? We should monitor the situation, and possibly raise the alert color. > > [Posted by Mark Brader on behalf of Donna Richoux during her absence.] > > Hey, what happened to Donna? I was all set to ask her about the Batavian > Republic! > > http://flagspot.net/flags/nl-batav.html I'm back. Visiting relatives was my story and I'm sticking to it. My thanks to Mark for keeping the Intro docs going. What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything about that particular political interval. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what > I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything > about that particular political interval. Just wondering if you've ever seen the sitting lion or the Hat of Freedom on a spear on a statue. Batavia used to be the capital of Indonesia - what else about the word? > > What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what > > I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a spear on a statue. Batavia used to be the capital of Indonesia - what > else about the word? The Batavians were a German tribe that was imported into the Netherlands by the Romans. They settled in the region now known as 'De Betuwe', between the big rivers. The served as soldiers, and produced supplies (food, horses) for the Roman armies along the 'limes', in Noviomagem (present day Nijmegen) for example. The patriotic history has it that they came of their own accord, and became the ancestors of (almost all) the Dutch. Somewhat like the Anglo-Saxons in England. (also imported Roman auxiliaries originally) If there is a statue of the rampant Dutch lion I don't know about it. It is a heraldic animal, and it lives in coats of arms, cartoons, and even on cast iron chimney plates. And the 'patriotic' period isn't that popular, since the English imposed a kingdom on the Netherlands in 1815. For an excellent history of the period [1] you might have a look at Simon Schama's 'Patriots and Liberators'. Jan [1] <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679729496/103-8113799-11 68617?v=glance> > > > What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what > > > I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything > > > about that particular political interval. > > > > Just wondering if you've ever seen the sitting lion or the Hat of Freedom on > > a spear on a statue. [on > http://flagspot.net/flags/nl-batav.html] No, I don't recognize those from anywhere. >>Batavia used to be the capital of Indonesia - what > > else about the word? > > The Batavians were a German tribe > that was imported into the Netherlands by the Romans. I've seen some disagreement about who the Batavians really were, when they got there, and how long they stayed, and I have no idea how to sort that out. I imagine present-day archaelogists know vast quantities more about it, but it hasn't trickled down to me. But certainly, everyone agrees that "Batavi" (etc) is the name the Romans recorded for those people on the river, and they did act as allies of the Romans. > They settled in the region now known as 'De Betuwe', > between the big rivers. That's the part I find interesting. I don't know whether it is just part of the unscientific legends that have accumulated about the Batavii, but a reasonably regarded theory is that the Germanic placename came first and that the Romans got their word from that. The Romans have a reasonably good track record of using local names instead of inventing them from whole cloth. I have notes from a children's history of "De Bataven": Old name of place between Rijn (Rhine) and Waal rivers Bat-Ouwe, "good ground" later Bate-ouwe, then Betuwe To the north was "bad ground," Vale-ouwe, Veluwe Betuwe and Veluwe are still used as placenames today. Well, still, all this stuff is circular. I've seen really sloppy arguments explaining old Dutch placenames, so I'm not going to stand behind any of it. > The served as soldiers, and produced supplies (food, horses) > for the Roman armies along the 'limes', > in Noviomagem (present day Nijmegen) for example. > > The patriotic history has it that they came of their own accord, > and became the ancestors of (almost all) the Dutch. Later history says the Batavians left for elsewhere by 100 AD. Combination of rising waters and lost battles. I don't know what the theory of the moment is. > Somewhat like the Anglo-Saxons in England. > (also imported Roman auxiliaries originally) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679729496/103-8113799-11 > 68617?v=glance> Back to Batavia. It seems to me to be a certain kind of Latin name that seems to get recycled into ocean liners, airlines, and colonial names, though it is not a current national or provicial term. Caledonia is another. I'm trying to think of more. Oh, yes, Hibernia. Others? SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > Back to Batavia. It seems to me to be a certain kind of Latin name that > seems to get recycled into ocean liners, airlines, and colonial names, > though it is not a current national or provicial term. Caledonia is > another. I'm trying to think of more. Oh, yes, Hibernia. Others? Lusitania. Mauretania. Carpathia. Dalmatia? SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. Donna Richoux: >> Back to Batavia. It seems to me to be a certain kind of Latin name that >> seems to get recycled into ocean liners, airlines, and colonial names, >> though it is not a current national or provicial term. Caledonia is >> another. I'm trying to think of more. Oh, yes, Hibernia. Others? John Varela: > Lusitania. Mauretania. Carpathia. Dalmatia? I'm not sure if Mauretania counts -- the modern country of Mauritania is not the same place, but it's close enough that they might be related etymologically. Anyone know? And of course "Carpathian" is in use to name a range of mountains. Looking over a list of Roman provinces, I see Raetia or Rhaetia, which seems to qualify -- the only present-day thing I can think of using that name is the railway company <http://www.rhb.ch> whose name is rendered in English as the Rhaetian Railway. I mean, this is not actually an ocean liner, but surely it's the Swiss equivalent... SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "It is almost always wrong to strive for msb@vex.net gilt by association." --Martin Ambuhl My text in this article is in the public domain. > Donna Richoux: > >> Back to Batavia. It seems to me to be a certain kind of Latin name that [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > in English as the Rhaetian Railway. I mean, this is not actually an > ocean liner, but surely it's the Swiss equivalent... Lusitania, Mauretania, and I'm not sure but I think maybe Carpathia were the names of ocean liners, which was one of the criteria for inclusion. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. >Looking over a list of Roman provinces, I see Raetia or Rhaetia, which >seems to qualify -- the only present-day thing I can think of using that >name is the railway company <http://www.rhb.ch> whose name is rendered >in English as the Rhaetian Railway. I mean, this is not actually an >ocean liner, but surely it's the Swiss equivalent... Well, I've heard the language referred to (once) as Rhaeto-Romansch, but whether that's present-day, I have no idea. Signature-ler snippage > The Batavians were a German tribe > > that was imported into the Netherlands by the Romans. > > I've seen some disagreement about who the Batavians really were, when > they got there, and how long they stayed, and I have no idea how to sort > that out. These things are mostly conjectures. But, IIRC, an upper Rhine valley origin (whatever origin may mean) is thought to be the most plausible, based on archeological evidence, like styles of bronze belt buckles and all that. > I imagine present-day archaelogists know vast quantities more > about it, but it hasn't trickled down to me. Lots of new material coming up. The creation of a new railway line through the Betuwe has made lots of rescue archeology necessary. It will get published in the coming years. > But certainly, everyone > agrees that "Batavi" (etc) is the name the Romans recorded for those [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > later Bate-ouwe, then Betuwe > To the north was "bad ground," Vale-ouwe, Veluwe I wasn't suggesting that 'Betuwe' might derive from 'Batavii'. > Betuwe and Veluwe are still used as placenames today. > > Well, still, all this stuff is circular. I've seen really sloppy > arguments explaining old Dutch placenames, so I'm not going to stand > behind any of it. The best ones are in the 'Oera Linda Bok'. > > The served as soldiers, and produced supplies (food, horses) > > for the Roman armies along the 'limes', [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Combination of rising waters and lost battles. I don't know what the > theory of the moment is. There was an uprising against the Romans, under a man named Claudius Civilis, 69 AD. Googling on him produces lots of references, mostly to the Rembrandt painting gloryfying him. However, in reality Claudius appears to have been a Roman underling with a dispute about conditions. Whatever happened to the Batavii and other tribes afterwards is lost in the dark ages. snip > Back to Batavia. It seems to me to be a certain kind of Latin name that > seems to get recycled into ocean liners, airlines, and colonial names, > though it is not a current national or provicial term. Caledonia is > another. I'm trying to think of more. Oh, yes, Hibernia. Others? Roumania of course. That's were all the Romans went after the sack of Rome, Jan > snippage > > > They settled in the region now known as 'De Betuwe', > > > between the big rivers. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I wasn't suggesting that 'Betuwe' might derive from 'Batavii'. Right, I didn't mean to say you did. You left it open. I just find that aspect of the name interesting, that a placename is still in use that is probably the *origin* of the Roman-empire word. That it can go so far back... There are a lot of Indian placenames still in use in the US, by English-speaking citizens, but I can't think what would be a parallel. Maybe it would be like tracing a Mohawk haircut back to the Mohawk/Mohican people and then explaining what the origin of that word happened to be in *their* language. I guess that's not so remarkable. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > snippage > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > probably the *origin* of the Roman-empire word. That it can go so far > back... Lots of Roman place names survive in the Netherlands. Some may have pre-roman origins. Lugdunum -> Leyden -> Lugdunum Batavorum! Supposedly named after a Celtic god named Lug. However, continuity may be doubted. The names could have been revived in the Middle ages. The 'Batavorum' is a 16th century addition, made by the learned professors at Leyden University. Jan >> What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what >> I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >a spear on a statue. Batavia used to be the capital of Indonesia - what >else about the word? So named by the Dutch - the Dutch Governor of those parts in the late 1700's was an ancestor of mine - and great buddies with his neighbor Raffles who was chief honcho in Singapore. While Raffles had a decent hotel named after him, Couperus was not so honored. Instead, the British were beastly to him (some unpleasantness about rights to spice islands or something) and exported him to Tranquebar. Nothing of interest there except a bunch of Danes. (There is a coffee shop in The Hague named Couperus, but that was named after a different chap, and not nealy as grand in the scheme of these things as a proper hotel. Also we don't like to recognize this latter fellow as a member of the family due to his somewhat "ambiguous" lifestyle.) Jitze > >> What's your question about the Batavian Republic? I could tell you what > >> I know about the word "Batavia" (it's ancient) but I don't know anything [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > this latter fellow as a member of the family due to his somewhat > "ambiguous" lifestyle.) There even is a 'Couperus Museum' in The Hague, Jan >> (There is a coffee shop in The Hague named Couperus, but that >> was named after a different chap, and not nealy as grand in the scheme [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >There even is a 'Couperus Museum' in The Hague, And a couple of statues of the fellow. One thoroughly bepooped with pigeon sh.t the last time I was there - they must have hosed it down to take the picturef at http://homepage.residentie.net/~schram-12/dh985.jpg Another statue of him was erected more recently, also in The Hague, and which can be seen at http://www.rnw.nl/taal/assets/images/coup1.JPG Jitze > >> (There is a coffee shop in The Hague named Couperus, but that > >> was named after a different chap, and not nealy as grand in the scheme [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to take the picturef at > http://homepage.residentie.net/~schram-12/dh985.jpg God! I know you said the British had been beastly to him, but I didn't realize they'd gone that far! Mike. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.