>From "Port Mungo" by Patrick McGrath, Chapter 13.
"Having Anna with us soon changed the way Jack and I rubbed along
together, this was one of the first changes I observed."
Later:
"Jack was worse, he was soft and doting, quite unlike himself, and I
think even Dora was infected with the new atmosphere in the house,
like us she was susceptible to the inimitable viral perfume which
fills the air with the mere presence of youth."
To my ear, these are two horrible sentences, badly in need of more
robust punctuation in the form of either semi-colons or full stops.
In truth, the whole book is littered with comma splices (do I mean
commas splice, or have I been reading the letters page of The
Independent recently?), which I don't recall from other books of his
that I've read. There is clearly a tension between the register or
tone that an author wishes to give to a character (particularly if the
book is written in the first person singular) and the not unreasonable
desire on the part of the reader to enjoy a euphonic sentence.
Comments?
Will.
Father Ignatius - 24 Sep 2007 19:49 GMT
>> From "Port Mungo" by Patrick McGrath, Chapter 13.
>
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>
> Comments?
I think you nailed it.
Robert Lieblich - 25 Sep 2007 00:30 GMT
> >From "Port Mungo" by Patrick McGrath, Chapter 13.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> To my ear, these are two horrible sentences, badly in need of more
> robust punctuation in the form of either semi-colons or full stops.
> In truth, the whole book is littered with comma splices (do I mean
> commas splice, or have I been reading the letters page of The
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Comments?
Hey, it's fiction. There's no need to justify the author's style by
appeal to rules of grammar. If it works, it works. Contrariwise, if
it doesn't, it doesn't.
In this case the author's style seems not to work for you. Have have
you abandoned the book yet? If not, why not?
I would add that I have lost almost all patience with books whose
stylistic clunkiness obscures their substance. I am in general
willing to give fiction a bit more stylistic leeway. On very rare
occasions I have struggled through a poorly written book of nonfiction
on a topic of great interest to me, but I'm getting a bit old to make
the effort.
Executive summary: If you don't enjoy reading it, don't read it.
Will - 25 Sep 2007 08:28 GMT
> > >From "Port Mungo" by Patrick McGrath, Chapter 13.
>
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>
> Executive summary: If you don't enjoy reading it, don't read it.- Hide quoted text -
Thanks for the responses, Robert, Franke and Father. I agree that a
work of fiction is not subject to the same rules of style that, say, a
newspaper. However, I'm with Franke really, in that if the clunkiness
doesn't serve any obvious purpose (such as, for example, the author
wishing to demonstrate breathlessness, or ignorance) then it's just
poor writing and should be hurled across the room. In this case I
haven't, because Mrs Will read the book before me and asked me to read
it so that we could discuss it. She's a great deal more tolerant of
style "issues" than I am, and had not noticed the endless comma
splices. Nor had I in previous books of his that I've read - maybe he
was better served by editors in the past.
Will.
The Grammer Genious - 28 Sep 2007 22:27 GMT
> <...>
> However, I'm with Franke really, in that if the clunkiness
> doesn't serve any obvious purpose (such as, for example, the author
> wishing to demonstrate breathlessness, or ignorance) then it's just
> poor writing and should be hurled across the room. <...>
But always with the acknowledgement to yourself that the point of it may be
very worthwhile indeed, yet beyond your ability to appreciate it,
unfortunately.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...", etc.
cybercypher - 25 Sep 2007 03:07 GMT
>>From "Port Mungo" by Patrick McGrath, Chapter 13.
>
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>
> Comments?
If you've been following the discussions here closely enough, you've
already discovered that almost every English usage issue is really a
matter of style. There is a great deal of cognitive dissonance
expressed here. Most of the well-educated posters who write well
disdain the idea of rules while using them. My guess is that that's
just another form of hypocrisy. The only reason anyone might have to
take their arguments seriously is that they write well enough to be
persuasive, and they do that by following rules they refuse to
acknowledge.
Still, much, if not all, of what is considered disputed usage really
is a matter of style. There are a few things that aren't, however.
This comma splice thing you raise is not a matter of style for me. I
find it just as annoying as you do.
It's perfectly reasonable for a novelist to write dialog that runs
sentences together to give the character who speaks it a particular
style. But, as His Honor says in his reply, it either works or it
doesn't. The sentences you offer above are not dialog but
description, it seems. Perhaps they are written from a character's
POV rather than from an omniscient narrator's, but that doesn't
matter, IMHO. They don't work for me. All I see is punctuational
idiocy and ignorance attempting to imitate art.
The first comma in both sentences needs to be a period. Or maybe just
eliminated altogether to give a breathless run-on quality that that
prissy comma cannot. The last comma in sentence two should be
something else -- maybe a dash, but not a comma for crissake. The
comma hollers out that the writer is a punctuational idiot, as most
of us are.

Signature
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
"It has come to my attention that my opinions are not universally
shared." Scott Adams.
The Grammer Genious - 29 Sep 2007 04:28 GMT
><...>
>Most of the well-educated posters who write well
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> persuasive, and they do that by following rules they refuse to
> acknowledge. <...>
Clearly either a circular argument or the baseless assertion of a poseur.