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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004From "Mack the knife"
In that song (I have the Frank Sinatra's version), there are some words and expressions that I do not understand nor can I find them in my dictionaries: 1.- "Macheath", as in " Just a jack knife has macheath dear And he keeps it way out of sight" 2.- "Could that someone be mack the knife", as in "On the sidewalk, one sunday morning Lies a body, oozin' life Someone's sneaking 'round the corner Could that someone be mack the knife" 3.- "Split the scene", as in "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe After drawing out all the bread from his stash Now macheath spends like a sailor Do you suppose our boy, he's done something rash" Also, I do not understand the meaning of the second line of the verse; although I think that I understand almost all the words, I cannot make sense of the verse, nor can I see the relation between the first two lines and the two last lines. There is a similar Spanish song, "Pedro Navaja" by Rubén Blades, that is sung with the same music and the first verses are very similar in meaning, but the English version differs in that it does not tell the whole story of Mack the Knife; instead, it talks about singers and musicians. English lyrics: http://www.cool-lyrics-place.com/Mack_The_Knife_Lyrics.html Spanish lyrics: http://www.carnecrua.com.br/archives/000285.htm Would anybody, please, explain me the meaning of the above words/expressions?  SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I am an artist You are a Bohemian He forgot to shave this morning (Craig Brown) > In that song (I have the Frank Sinatra's version), there are some words and > expressions that I do not understand nor can I find them in my dictionaries: > > 1.- "Macheath", as in > " Just a jack knife has macheath dear > And he keeps it way out of sight" "MacHeath" is the subject of the sentence, and a proper noun. "MacHeath has just a jack knife, dear." > 2.- "Could that someone be mack the knife", as in > "On the sidewalk, one sunday morning > Lies a body, oozin' life > Someone's sneaking 'round the corner > Could that someone be mack the knife" The second someone refers to the first. In other words, is it Mac the Knife "sneaking 'round the corner"? > 3.- "Split the scene", as in > "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe > After drawing out all the bread from his stash > Now macheath spends like a sailor > Do you suppose our boy, he's done something rash" "Split" means "leave". > Also, I do not understand the meaning of the second line of the verse; > although I think that I understand almost all the words, I cannot make sense > of the verse, nor can I see the relation between the first two lines and the > two last lines. "Bread" = money "Stash" = hidden store Whether or not Louis Miller is MacHeath, I will leave for native Chicagoans to answer. The last two lines in relation to the first two suggest he is. SignatureSimon R. Hughes Simon R. Hughes escribió : >> 3.- "Split the scene", as in >> "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > "Stash" = hidden store Thank you for the help, Simon. > Whether or not Louis Miller is MacHeath, I will leave for native > Chicagoans to answer. The last two lines in relation to the first > two suggest he is. I am not a native Chicagoan (is the story supposed to happen in Chicago?), but there is a previous verse that says "From a tugboat.... by the river..... a cement bag's, droopin' down Yeah, the cement's just for the weight, dear...bet you mack, he's back in town" or, according to another version "There's a tugboat, huh, huh, down by the river dontcha know Where a cement bag's just a'drooppin' on down Oh, that cement is just, it's there for the weight, dear Five'll get ya ten old Macky's back in town " So I understand that Louis Miller's body ends in the river, in a cement sarcophagus; could it be? SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I am an artist You are a Bohemian He forgot to shave this morning (Craig Brown) Javi filted: >I am not a native Chicagoan (is the story supposed to happen in Chicago?), >but there is a previous verse that says [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >So I understand that Louis Miller's body ends in the river, in a cement >sarcophagus; could it be? Not necessarily completely enclosed as in a sarcophagus, but weighted down and unable to escape sinking...the traditional picture is something like this: http://www.gameaholics.com/gsr_wbc/gsr_prize_overshoes.JPG Or as Scotty on "Star Trek" phrased it, "wearing concrete galoshes".... I don't see any mention so far in this thread of the recording Ernie Kovacs used as background music for many of his blackout sketches...that one was sung in the original German, and known to viewers as "Mickie Messer"....r "Simon R. Hughes" <a57998.not.this.bit@yahoo.no> wrote on 29 Dec 2003: >> In that song (I have the Frank Sinatra's version), there are some >> words and expressions that I do not understand nor can I find [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Chicagoans to answer. The last two lines in relation to the first > two suggest he is. I think that Mack the Kinfe forced Louie Miller to draw out all his hard-earned cash and then killed him. Now Mackie is spending all of Louie Miller's money. Bobby Darin's version says not "he split the scene" but "he disappeared", which suggests that Miller cannot be found because he sleeps with the fishes. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor. > "Simon R. Hughes" <a57998.not.this.bit@yahoo.no> wrote on 29 Dec > 2003: >> Whether or not Louis Miller is MacHeath, I will leave for native >> Chicagoans to answer. The last two lines in relation to the first [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > scene" but "he disappeared", which suggests that Miller cannot be > found because he sleeps with the fishes. I saw Carmen's reply, and then John Dean's, and realised how ignorant I was of the origin of this song. Your interpretation is also much better than mine. SignatureSimon R. Hughes > Whether or not Louis Miller is MacHeath, I will leave for native > Chicagoans to answer. Er, now you've gone and wook up Kirsh. Once upon a 12/29/03 3:48 AM, in the land of bsp3ut$f3828$1@ID-177688.news.uni-berlin.de, the very good"Javi" from <poziyoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: > In that song (I have the Frank Sinatra's version), there are some words and > expressions that I do not understand nor can I find them in my dictionaries: > > 1.- "Macheath", as in > " Just a jack knife has macheath dear > And he keeps it way out of sight" "MacHeath" is the name of the character described in the song. "Mack the Knife" is his nickname. The song is from Bertolt Brecht's _Threepenny Opera_, which is an adaptation of an early work _The Beggar's Opera_. See <http://mobydicks.com/lecture/Brechthall/messages/70.html> > 2.- "Could that someone be mack the knife", as in > "On the sidewalk, one sunday morning > Lies a body, oozin' life > Someone's sneaking 'round the corner > Could that someone be mack the knife" Can it be that that person (that "someone") sneaking round the corner is Mack the Knife (MacHeath). > 3.- "Split the scene", as in > "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe > After drawing out all the bread from his stash > Now macheath spends like a sailor > Do you suppose our boy, he's done something rash" "Split the scene" means "left town" or just "is not seen around any more". Sinatra is improvising the lyrics (and the melody), substituting contemporary slang for the original which was: Louie Miller disappeared, dear After drawing out his cash And MacHeath spends like a sailor Did our boy do something rash? > Also, I do not understand the meaning of the second line of the verse; > although I think that I understand almost all the words, I cannot make sense > of the verse, nor can I see the relation between the first two lines and the > two last lines. A guy named "Louis Miller" has suddenly disappeared just after withdrawing all the money (bread) from his bank account (stash). Now MacHeath is suddenly spending money wildly (like a sailor), Is it possible he's done something rash? > There is a similar Spanish song, "Pedro Navaja" by Rubén Blades, that is > sung with the same music and the first verses are very similar in meaning, > but the English version differs in that it does not tell the whole story of > Mack the Knife; instead, it talks about singers and musicians. The part about singers and musicians is completely improvised by Sinatra for this version, it isn't in the original. It's just an off the cuff tribute to the many other singers who've sung this particular song in the past, and to the band that's backing him up for this version. > English lyrics: > http://www.cool-lyrics-place.com/Mack_The_Knife_Lyrics.html [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would anybody, please, explain me the meaning of the above > words/expressions? Carmen L. Abruzzi escribió : > Once upon a 12/29/03 3:48 AM, in the land of > bsp3ut$f3828$1@ID-177688.news.uni-berlin.de, the very good"Javi" from [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "MacHeath" is the name of the character described in the song. "Mack > the Knife" is his nickname. Thank you, the fact that the page where I found the lyrics does not capitalize proper nouns confused me. > The song is from Bertolt Brecht's > _Threepenny Opera_, which is an adaptation of an early work _The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Can it be that that person (that "someone") sneaking round the corner > is Mack the Knife (MacHeath). Thank you again. It is so evident now. I could not understand it because in the Spanish version it is Pedro Navaja who dies, so I thought that the body lying was his. >> 3.- "Split the scene", as in >> "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And MacHeath spends like a sailor > Did our boy do something rash? As it seems, there are two different versions by Louis Armstrong, one with the words you quote http://www.just-lyrics-place.net/Mack_The_Knife_Lyrics.html and another one that says Now d'ja hear 'bout Louie Miller? He disappeared, babe After drawin' out all his hard-earned cash And now MacHeath spends just like a sailor Could it be our boy's done somethin' rash? http://www.france-jeunes.net/paroles/index.php?tid=MTkyMjk= >> Also, I do not understand the meaning of the second line of the >> verse; although I think that I understand almost all the words, I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Now MacHeath is suddenly spending money wildly (like a sailor), > Is it possible he's done something rash? That is a very good explanation. SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I am an artist You are a Bohemian He forgot to shave this morning (Craig Brown) > Carmen L. Abruzzi escribió : > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> See <http://mobydicks.com/lecture/Brechthall/messages/70.html> The version you have discovered actually has little to do with Brecht. Americans like Sinatra & Bobby Darin felt the urge to 'jazz it up' both melodically and lyrically. In the original German, with my crude translation appended, it goes: 1, Und der Haifisch, der hat Zähne Und die trägt er im Gesicht Und MacHeath, der hat ein Messer Doch das Messer sieht man nicht. (And the Shark, he's got teeth and he wears them in his face Macheath, he has a knife But you never see the knife) 2. Ach, es sind des Haifischs Flossen Rot, wenn dieser Blut vergießt! Mackie Messer trägt 'n Handschuh Drauf man keine Untat liest. (Oh, it's the shark's fins are red when it sheds blood! Mack the Knife wears gloves and you can't read his misdeeds on them 3. An der Themse grünem Wasser Fallen plötzlich Leute um! Es ist weder Pest noch Cholera Doch es heißt: MacHeath geht um. (In the Thames' green water People sometimes fall in! They say it's either plague or cholera: MacHeath strolls about) 4. An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand Und ein Mensch geht um die Ecke Den man Mackie Messer nannt. (On a lovely sunny Sunday There's a corpse in the Strand And a guy turns up his toes for naming Mack the Knife) 5. Und Schmul Meier bleibt verschwunden Und so mancher reiche Mann Und sein Geld hat Mackie Messer Dem man nichts beweisen kann. (And Schmul Meier is still missing such a rich man and Mack the Knife has his money But nobody can prove it) 6. Jenny Fowler ward gefunden Mit 'nem Messer in der Brust Und am Kai geht Mackie Messer Der von allem nichts gewußt. (They found Jenny Fowler With a knife in her breast And Mack the Knife strolls on the Quay and knows nothing about it) 7. Wo ist Alfons Glite, der Fuhrherr? Kommt das je ans Sonnenlicht? Wer es immer wissen könnte Mackie Messer weiß es nicht. (Where is Alfons Glite, the Carrier? Will he ever come out into the sunshine again? Whoever might know the answer Mackie doesn't know a thing) 8. Und das große Feuer in Soho Sieben Kinder und ein Greis In der Menge Mackie Messer, den Man nicht fragt und der nix weiß. (And the big fire in Soho Seven children and an old man In the crowd - Mackie Messer No-one questions him and he knows nothing) 9. Und die minderjährige Witwe Deren Namen jeder weiß Wachte auf und war geschändet Mackie, welches war dein Preis? (And the underage widow whose name everyone knows wakes up violated Mackie - how much did they pay you?) 10. Und die Fische, sie verschwinden, Doch zum Kummer des Gerichts Man zitiert am End den Haifisch, Doch der Haifisch weiß von nichts (And the fishes, they disappear To the sorrow of the Courts Eventually they summon the shark But the shark doesn't know anything) 11. Und er kann sich nicht erinnern Und man kann nicht an ihn ran, Denn ein Haifisch ist kein Haifisch Wenn man nicht beweisen kann. (And he can't remember anything And nobody can do anything to him Since a shark isn't a shark If you can't prove anything) 'Schmul Meier' becomes 'Louis Miller' in the US version. And the references to rape, arson and child-murder are dropped. John Gay's original Threepenny Opera didn't have an equivalent to the Ballad as his hero, MacHeath, was more an honest Highwayman than the Mafia Hitman of Brecht's devising. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply [...] > In the original German, with my crude translation > appended, it goes: Here are some necessary corrections, even though Mr. Dean announced that he rarely reads my posts, because they aren't worth reading: "Like most here, I rarely read Rey." and "I recommend that you avoid Rey's posts. They're not worth it." -- John Dean, 21 November 2003 The morons who've killfiled me will see only Mr. Dean's sometimes terribly wrong translations. Serves them right! f.ck 'em! > 2. Ach, es sind des Haifischs Flossen > Rot, wenn dieser Blut vergießt! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (Oh, it's the shark's fins are > red when it sheds blood! The shark's fins are red when.... (it is not necessary to translate _es sind_ as "it's") > 3. An der Themse grünem Wasser > Fallen plötzlich Leute um! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (In the Thames' green water > People sometimes fall in! On the banks of the Thames's green waters People suddenly keel over! > They say it's either plague > or cholera: MacHeath strolls about) It's neither the plague nor cholera But they say: MacHeath is haunting the place. > 4. An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag > Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (On a lovely sunny Sunday > There's a corpse in the Strand A dead man is lying on the banks [of the Thames] > And a guy turns up his toes > for naming Mack the Knife) And a fellow is walking around the corner Whom they call Mack the Knife. > 5. Und Schmul Meier bleibt verschwunden > Und so mancher reiche Mann [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (And Schmul Meier is still missing > such a rich man As well as many [a wealthy man] wealthy men > 6. Jenny Fowler ward gefunden > Mit 'nem Messer in der Brust [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (They found Jenny Fowler > With a knife in her breast ... in her chest > And Mack the Knife strolls on the Quay ... on the quay OR wharf > and knows nothing about it) Who knew nothing about all that. > 7. Wo ist Alfons Glite, der Fuhrherr? > Kommt das je ans Sonnenlicht? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (Where is Alfons Glite, the Carrier? > Will he ever come out into the sunshine again? Will that ever be revealed? [i.e., what happened to A. Glite] > 9. Und die minderjährige Witwe > Deren Namen jeder weiß [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > whose name everyone knows > wakes up violated Woke up and had been raped SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman Who *some* people think is worth reading > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > > Woke up and had been raped John Dean's translation was more entertaining, though. SignatureSimon R. Hughes [...] > John Dean's translation was more entertaining, though. [Dean:] > >> 7. Wo ist Alfons Glite, der Fuhrherr? > >> Kommt das je ans Sonnenlicht? > >> (Where is Alfons Glite, the Carrier? Yeah, especially entertaining: > >> Will he ever come out into the sunshine again? Correct: > > Will that ever be revealed? [i.e., what happened to A. Glite] SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman Who's *sometimes* worth reading > > 4. An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag > > Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A dead man is lying on the banks [of the Thames] Wouldn't that be Strand (the street) Bit difficult to disappear round a corner on the banks. > > 9. Und die minderjährige Witwe > > Deren Namen jeder weiß [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Woke up and had been raped The poor (or lucky) widow slept through being raped? BTW is it still known what 'case everybody knows about' is being referred to by Brecht? Jan [Dean:] > > > 4. An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag > > > Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > (On a lovely sunny Sunday > > > There's a corpse in the Strand > > A dead man is lying on the banks [of the Thames] > Wouldn't that be Strand (the street) No. Reason 1: If it were the street called "Strand," the German preposition would be "liegt...IN der Strand [Straße]" or "...IM [= in dem] Strand." "AM [= an dem] Strand" means what I wrote, "ON the river bank." Reason 2: Why would Brecht & Co. name a specific street? (That's not the same as mentioning the fire in Soho.) Reason 3: Note that the preceding stanza specifically refers to the river banks: On the banks of the Thames's green waters People suddenly keel over! It's neither the plague nor cholera But they say: MacHeath is haunting the place. > Bit difficult to disappear round a corner on the banks. There are many houses built close to and parallel to the Thames, with streets leading away from the river; thus there are street corners nearby. To wit: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ T H A M E S ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ river bank X river bank [][][][][] [][][][] [][][][][] <- houses [][][][][] [][][][] M [][][][][] [][][][][] [][][][] [][][][][] [][][][][] [][][][] [][][][][] X = dead man M = Mack > > > 9. Und die minderjährige Witwe > > > Deren Namen jeder weiß [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > whose name everyone knows > > > wakes up violated > > Woke up and had been raped > The poor (or lucky) widow slept through being raped? I don't know how long you've been married (if at all), but after many years of being humped, *some* wives sleep through a quickie. Also, the young woman could have been very drunk and thus slept through it. Which reminds me of a very drunk young chick in Düsseldorf, so I know it can happen. (No, being a gentleman, I didn't.) > BTW is it still known what 'case everybody knows about' > is being referred to by Brecht? Sorry, I don't understand your question. SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman > [Dean:] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Reason 2: Why would Brecht & Co. name a specific street? (That's not > the same as mentioning the fire in Soho.) Why not. For 'couleur locale', like Soho. And 'The Strand' must be a well known name, also outside London. > Reason 3: Note that the preceding stanza specifically refers to the > river banks: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > X = dead man > M = Mack Sure, not what you would call a 'Strand'. > > > > 9. Und die minderjährige Witwe > > > > Deren Namen jeder weiß [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > reminds me of a very drunk young chick in Düsseldorf, so I know it can > happen. (No, being a gentleman, I didn't.) Yes, '-could- have been very drunk'. That leaves less room for 'geschandet'. You are slandering a poor underage widow. [OT, for your amusement] The matter became the subject of a curious court case in the Netherlands, some time ago. The facts in the case as they appeared in the newspapers: A man and a woman were both members of a brass band, which rehearsed in the evenings. Substantial drinking sometimes took place at the rehearsals, and they both ended up a bit (it would seem very) drunk, sometimes. After rehearsals she often slept at the man's house, to avoid having to travel to your own home farther away in the dark. In the cold season they shared a bed, on trust of course, only for the warmth. (the house appears to have been ill-heated) All went well many a time, but the last time it didn't. As it happened, she woke up at the 'moment suprême'. She felt her trust had been betrayed, fled the house, and made a rape complaint. However, at the trial, the defendant claimed that he had been asleep too, and that he had been acting subconsiously, like in sleepwalking. So the most learned judges were asked to pronounce on the possibility of a man raping a woman while being asleep. IIRC they declined, on the pretext that imposing a penalty wasn't possible anyway, under the circumstances. So we'll never know for sure, juridicaly speaking, Jan > > BTW is it still known what 'case everybody knows about' > > is being referred to by Brecht? > > Sorry, I don't understand your question. The song gives the impression of referring to real world events, known to the first audiences. >> [Dean:] >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> Reason 2: Why would Brecht & Co. name a specific street? (That's >> not the same as mentioning the fire in Soho.) "The strand", no capital, would be a good translation of the word. Better than, "on the banks [of the Thames]". m. In article <1g6vjwf.1yqereqro67kN@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, J. J. Lodder <jjllxa2 >> > > > 4. An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag >> > > > Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> would be "liegt...IN der Strand [Straße]" or "...IM [= in dem] Strand." >> "AM [= an dem] Strand" means what I wrote, "ON the river bank." See the material, below, from the <OED>. The Strand in London originally WAS the strand of the Thames. STRAND [oldest meaning and usage]: [OE. strand (? neut.) = OFris. strônd (WFris. strân, straun, NFris. strön, strunn), MLG. strant (strand-) masc. (whence Du. strand neut., mod.G. strand masc.), ON. strnd (strand-) fem., border, edge, coast (Sw., Da. strand).] 1. a. The land bordering a sea, lake, or river; in a more restricted sense, that part of a shore which lies between the tide-marks; sometimes used vaguely for coast, shore. Cf. SEA-STRAND. Now poet., arch. or dial. c1000 Ags. Gosp. Matt. xiii. 48 a hi a at nett uppatuon & sæton be am strande. Ibid. John xxi. 4 Witodlice on ærne meren se hælend stod on am strande. a1066 Charter of Eadweard in Kemble Cod. Dipl. IV. 221 Ic cie eow æt Urk min huskarl habbe his strand eall, forneen hys aen land..and eall æt to his strande edryuen hys, be minum fullan bebode. c1200 ORMIN 11155 Forr Crist, son summ he fullhtnedd wass & stihenn upp o strande. c1205 LAY. 17586 er heo nomen hauene..scipen eoden a at strond, cnihtes eoden a at lond. c1250 Gen. & Ex. 2717 And moyses dru him to e strond, And stalle he dalf him e sond. c1290 Mary Magd. 471 in S. Eng. Leg. 475 e prince stap out of e schipe:..Opon e stronde he af a lupe. c1330 R. BRUNNE Chron. Wace (Rolls) 14049 Seuen hundred schipe lyn by e stronde. c1384 CHAUCER H. Fame 148 The Armes and also the man That first came..Vnto the strondes of Lauyne. 1390 GOWER Conf. II. 232 Thei ben comen sauf to londe, Wher thei gon out upon the stronde Into the Burgh. c1430 LYDG. Min. Poems (Percy Soc.) 50 A lowe ground ebbe was fast by the strond, That no maryner durst take on hond To cast an anker. 1544 BETHAM Precepts War I. lii. Djb, Wherby other shyppes can not well arryue at anye strounde, ne yet go out of the hauen. 1593 PEELE Honour of Garter 15 The channel that divides The Frenchmen's strond fro Britain's fishy towns. c1595 DONNE Sat. II. 78 Shortly (as the sea) hee will compasse all our land; From Scots, to Wight; from Mount, to Dover strand. 1632 J. HAYWARD tr. Biondi's Eromena 26 They walked along the strond, till they came to his Barke. 1681 DRYDEN Abs. & Achit. I. 272 The Joyful People throng'd to see him Land, Cov'ring the Beach and blackning all the Strand. 1718 PRIOR Alma II. 535 The Strand, Which compasses fair Albion's Land. 1759 Ann. Reg. 36/1 Quebec..consists of an upper and lower town, the lower..is built upon a strand, at the foot of a lofty rock. 1796 H. HUNTER St.-Pierre's Stud. Nat. (1799) II. 155 James Cartier and Champlain represent the strands of the lakes of North-America as shaded by stately walnut-trees. 1817 SHELLEY Rev. Islam I. xvi, On the bare strand Upon the sea-mark a small boat did wait. 1871 COUCH Polperro ii. 32 The next object of notice..is the beach, or `strand', inside the old quay. 1911 E. BEVERIDGE North Uist vi. 132 Six [of the island-forts] are easily accessible over the strand at ebb-tide. fig. 1649 JER. TAYLOR Gt. Exemp. Pref. 25 God brought Moses law into the world to be as a strand to the inundation of impiety. b. in certain rhyming and alliterative phrases used in charters. Obs. c. A quay, wharf, or landing-place by the side of navigable water. Obs. den and strand: see DENE n.2 2. 1205 Rot. Chart. (1837) 153/1 Habeant [barones de Hastinges] strand [printed strand] & dene apud Gernemue. 1577-87 HOLINSHED Chron. III. 1097/1 Sir Thomas Wiat hauing with him foureteene ensignes,..marched to Detford strand, eight miles from Detford. 1600 J. PORY tr. Leo's Africa VIII. 301 A most impregnable castle, which standeth vpon the strand or wharfe of the port. c1600 in T. Brown Misc. Aulica (1702) 254 If any that hath a House or Land adjoining do make a Strand, Stairs, or such like, they pay forthwith Rent to the City of London. 1637 MILTON Comus 876 By Leucothea's lovely hands, And her son [sc. Portunus] that rules the strands. 1707 Lond. Gaz. No. 4397/3 He was..one of the Elder Brothers of Trinity-House of Deptford-Strond. 1859 BARTLETT Dict. Amer. (ed. 2) 455 The Dutch on the Hudson River apply the term to a landing-place; as, the strand at Kingston. d. the Strand: the name of a street in London; originally so called as occupying, with the gardens belonging to the houses, the `strand' or shore of the Thames between the cities of London and Westminster. 1246 Misc. Rolls, Chancery Bd. 3 No. 2 m. 1 Domos..extra muros Ciuitatis nostre London, in vico qui vocatur le Straunde. 1601 F. GODWIN Bps. Eng. 262 Walter de Langton..built also..the pallace by the Strond at London. 1613 SHAKES. Hen. VIII, V. iv. 55 [She] cryed out Clubbes, when I might see from farre, some forty Truncheoners draw to her succour, which were the hope o' th' Strond where she was quartered. 1691 WOOD Ath. Oxon. II. 226 James Heath [was] Son of Rob. Heath the Kings Cutler, living in the Strand leading from London to Westminster. 1729 POPE Dunc. II. 28 Where the tall may-pole once o'er-look'd the Strand. 1790 PENNANT London 126-7, I shall resume my account at the opening of the Strand into Charing-Cross, by observing, that in the year 1353, that fine street the Strand was an open highway, with here and there a great man's house, with gardens to the water-side. 1823 BYRON Island II. xix, But less grand, Though not less loved, in Wapping or the Strand. SignatureRegards, Frank Young tipcat@wam.umd.edu 703-527-7684 Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891 "Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte" > In article <1g6vjwf.1yqereqro67kN@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, > J. J. Lodder <jjllxa2 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > STRAND [oldest meaning and usage]: snip OED. Seems plausible, and in line with the fact that the continuation eastwards of the Strand is Fleet Street. All considered, I think it is best to leave Brecht's 'Strand' translated by Strand in English, Jan [...] > "MacHeath" is the name of the character described in the song. "Mack the > Knife" is his nickname. The song is from Bertolt Brecht's _Threepenny > Opera_, which is an adaptation of an early work _The Beggar's Opera_. > > See <http://mobydicks.com/lecture/Brechthall/messages/70.html> This is a very long but most informative essay about the original and its adaptations. There are some annoying errors (its --> it's, perform --> preform), but the strangest thing is the deletion (censoring) of every appearance of _a.s_. I didn't understand some words (cl, cles, p, pes, ume) until I realized that all of them are missing "a.s"! Thus, before censorship: "cl" was "clASS" "cles" was "clASSes" "ume" was "ASSume" "p" was "pASS" "pes" was "pASSes" I haven't figured out what "s" stands for, which appears several times in the text. It's not "sASS" or "ASSASSs." This foolishness illustrates the danger of blindly using the "Find/Search & Replace" function. The censor used FIND "a.s" and REPLACE WITH "". Similar errors happened when "black" became politically incorrect and word-processors operated by morons replaced every "black" with "Afro-American" or "African-American" without checking the results. There are reliable reports that newspapers published stories about Germany's "Afro-American Forest" and Europe's "African-American Sea." Other fairly recent p.c. goofs have called South African and British Negroes "African-Americans." SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I haven't figured out what "s" stands for, which appears several times > in the text. It's not "sASS" or "ASSASSs." You missed this clue: "Paulsen required a double-ed black suit" Gary [...] > You missed this clue: > > "Paulsen required a double-ed black suit" Thanks, Gary. I saw that and guessed "double-worsted black suit" (it couldn't be "double-assed"), but the little voice told me it was wrong. I couldn't think of the now obvious, namely, "double-breasted." SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman Rey filted: >This is a very long but most informative essay about the original and >its adaptations. There are some annoying errors (its --> it's, perform [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I haven't figured out what "s" stands for, which appears several times >in the text. It's not "sASS" or "ASSASSs." Looks like "a.s" isn't the only word they did the search-and-replace on...my best guess on "s", given the context in which it occurs, is that it stands for "whores".... I also noted a puzzling sentence that seems to have resulted from the same procedure: <cut/paste> As he sang, he pointed to crude images illustrating the crimes Mack the Knife committed such as: Theft, murder, arson, and . </cut/paste> How Kafkaesque...Mack the Knife has committed some crime so horrible that even its name cannot be spoken...it would have been interesting to see him brought to trial on this charge, just to witness the judge and barristers carry out the proceedings with gestures and meaningful glances.... >Similar errors happened when "black" became politically incorrect and >word-processors operated by morons replaced every "black" with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Other fairly recent p.c. goofs have called South African and British >Negroes "African-Americans." The one that always amused me was the municipality that had managed to eliminate its budget deficit, reported as "back in the African-American"....r > Rey filted [actually, I falt]: [...] > >I haven't figured out what "s" stands for, which appears several > >times in the text. It's not "sASS" or "ASSASSs." > Looks like "a.s" isn't the only word they did the search-and-replace on...my > best guess on "s", given the context in which it occurs, is that it stands [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the Knife committed such as: Theft, murder, arson, and . > </cut/paste> The censored word must have been "rape." > How Kafkaesque...Mack the Knife has committed some crime so horrible that even > its name cannot be spoken...it would have been interesting to see him brought > to trial on this charge, just to witness the judge and barristers carry out the > proceedings with gestures and meaningful glances.... Try it at your next party during charade time. [...] SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman > In that song (I have the Frank Sinatra's version), there are some words and > expressions that I do not understand nor can I find them in my dictionaries: > > 1.- "Macheath", as in > " Just a jack knife has macheath dear > And he keeps it way out of sight" "MacHeath" is a proper name. Just a jack knife has Macheath, dear And he keeps it out of sight. > 2.- "Could that someone be mack the knife", as in > "On the sidewalk, one sunday morning > Lies a body, oozin' life > Someone's sneaking 'round the corner > Could that someone be mack the knife" "Mack the Knife" is a nickname for MacHeath, who is known for using a knife. On the side-walk Sunday morning Lies a body oozing life; Someone's sneaking 'round the corner. Is the someone Mack the Knife? > 3.- "Split the scene", as in > "My man louis miller, he split the scene babe > After drawing out all the bread from his stash > Now macheath spends like a sailor > Do you suppose our boy, he's done something rash" "Split the scene" (or just "split") = "leave, especially suddenly" (COD10, #5 s.v. "split"). Louie Miller disappeared, dear After drawing out his cash; And Macheath spends like a sailor. Did our boy do something rash? > Also, I do not understand the meaning of the second line of the verse; > although I think that I understand almost all the words, I cannot make sense > of the verse, nor can I see the relation between the first two lines and the > two last lines. The "bread" is the money he has kept in "his stash." After taking it out ("drawing out"), he spends it. (See above) > There is a similar Spanish song, "Pedro Navaja" by Rubén Blades, that is > sung with the same music and the first verses are very similar in meaning, > but the English version differs in that it does not tell the whole story of > Mack the Knife; instead, it talks about singers and musicians. The real song ("Moritat vom Mackie Messer") is from "Die Driegroschenoper" (Three Penny Opera) by Kurt Weill and Bertold Brecht (1928, English adaptation 1954), based on "The Beggar's Opera" by John Gay and John Pepusch (1728). Neither Frank Sinatra or Bobby Darin are to be relied on for the real song. The 1954 Blitzstein version had the approval of Brecht and Lenya (who played Pirate Jenny), but has many problems and is an adaptation, not a translation. Its castrated form is the result of the McCarthyite attacks on the earlier Blitzstein-Bernstein attempt. There are several better versions in English: Ralph Manheim & John Willett, Michael Feingold, Hugh McDiarmid, Robert David McDonald & Jeremy Sams in French: Jean-Claude Hémery in Italian: Emilio Castellani The Manheim & Willett version was used in the magnificent New York Shakespeare Company's performances. I have not checked the Frank MacGuiness version. Avoid the Bentley-Vesey version (not listed above); it makes Blitzstein's version look good. The Feingold version resets the scene to the US in 1925. Anyway, here is the original: Die Moritat vom Mackie Messer (aus "Dreigroschenoper") Und der Haifisch, der hat Zähne, Und die trägt er im Gesicht, Und Maceath, der hat ein Messer, Doch das Messer sieht man nicht. An `nem schönen blauen Sonntag Liegt ein toter Mann am Strand, Und ein Mensch geht um die Ecke Den man Mackie Messer nennt. Und Schmul Meier bleibt verschwunden, Und so mancher reiche Mann, Und sein Geld hat Mackie Messer, Dem man nichts beweisen kann. Jenny Towler ward gefunden Mit `nem Messer in der Brust, Und am Kai geht Mackie Messer, Der von allem nichts gewußt. Und das große Feuer in Soho, Sieben Kinder und ein Greis, In der Menge Mackie Messer, Den man nichts fragt, und der nichts weiß. Und die minderjährige Witwe, Deren Namen jeder weiß, Wachte auf und war geschändet Mackie, welches war dein Preis? Und die Fische, sie verschwinden! Doch zum Kummer des Gerichts: Man zitiert am End den Haifisch Doch der Haifisch weiß von nichts. Und er kann sich nicht erinnern Und man kann nicht an ihn ran Denn ein Haifisch ist kein Haifisch Wenn man’s nicht beweisen kann. SignatureMartin Ambuhl Once upon a 12/29/03 12:35 PM, in the land of se0Ib.14291$IM3.13638@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net, the very good"Martin Ambuhl" from <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote: > The real song ("Moritat vom Mackie Messer") is from "Die Driegroschenoper" > (Three Penny Opera) by Kurt Weill and Bertold Brecht (1928, English [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > MacGuiness version. Avoid the Bentley-Vesey version (not listed above); it > makes Blitzstein's version look good. Even that has to be better than the Babelfish version: And the shark fish, that has teeth, and it carries in the face, and Maceath, that has a measurer, but the knife one does not see. ` a dead man is to one beautiful blue Sunday on because of the beach, and humans go around the corner who one Mackie Measurer call. And Schmul Meier remains disappeared, and so some rich man, and its money has Mackie Measurer, to who one cannot prove anything. Jenny Towler ward found with one measurer in the chest, and at the dock does not go to Mackie Measurer, from all anything known. And the large fire in Soho, seven children and a Greis, in which quantity of Mackie Measurer, whom one does not ask anything, and who nothing white. And the widow under age, whose name everyone knows, woke up and was violated Mackie, which was your price? And the fish, it disappear! But to the grief of the court: One quoted to end the shark fish nevertheless the shark fish white from nothing. And it cannot remember and one can not it ran a shark fish is no shark fish if man?s prove can. I especially like the 'Mackie Measurer' rendering (Mack the Yardstick?), and the consistent mistranslation of "weiss" as "white" rather than "knows". But why does "Messer" come out as "knife" in the last line of the first verse? I can only think it's because the word is preceded by the article "das" in the original, which might define "Messer" as "knife" rather than "measurer". > The Feingold version resets the > scene to the US in 1925. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Denn ein Haifisch ist kein Haifisch > Wenn man¹s nicht beweisen kann. |
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