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RIP Norman Mailer

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Father Ignatius - 16 Nov 2007 15:01 GMT
Sunday again on CBC,
Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
And Norman Mailer is coming to tea,
Pee Po Belly Bum Pants!
Alan Ginsberg reads on and on,
But we're having a happening when he's gone,
Come to the party in the john,
Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
tinwhistler - 16 Nov 2007 15:40 GMT
On Nov 16, 7:01 am, "Father Ignatius"
<FatherIgnat...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
> Sunday again on CBC,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Come to the party in the john,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.

Abbie Hoffman won't miss the party --
[Norman Mailer (about Abbie Hoffman, 1989)]
"... He had a charisma that must have come out of an immaculate
conception between Fidel Castro and Groucho Marx. They went into his
soul and he came out looking like an ethnic milkshake--Jewish
revolutionary, Puerto Rican lord, Italian street kid, Black Panther
with the old Afro haircut, even a glint of Irish gunman in the mad,
green eyes...."
--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
- - -
John Dean - 16 Nov 2007 15:42 GMT
> Sunday again on CBC,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Come to the party in the john,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.

Are you the young poster who can't spell 'f.ck'?
Signature

John Dean
Oxford

Mike M - 16 Nov 2007 15:49 GMT
> > Sunday again on CBC,
> > Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Are you the young poster who can't spell 'f.ck'?

"Fug", shirley?

(For those who have read "The Naked And The Dead").

Mike M
tinwhistler - 16 Nov 2007 21:38 GMT
[snip]
> > Are you the young poster who can't spell 'f.ck'?
>
> "Fug", shirley?
>
> (For those who have read "The Naked And The Dead").
[snip]

I believe it was Tallulah Bankhead who asked about the bowdlerism in
Mailer's book.    She also came up with other great ones:

"I'm as pure as the driven slush."

"If all the girls at Vassar were laid end to end, I wouldn't be
surprised."

TB and Helen Hayes were having a girl-to-girl talk when Hayes said,
"Tell me the truth, Tallulah--have you ever gone to bed with a perfect
stranger?"

"Daaah-ling," Tallulah responded, "nobody's perfect."

--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Father Ignatius - 16 Nov 2007 22:58 GMT
tinwhistler <ozziemaland@post.harvard.edu> het geskryf:

> On Nov 16, 7:49 am, Mike M <mikmoo...@googlemail.com>
> wrote: [snip]
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> "Daaah-ling," Tallulah responded, "nobody's perfect."

There's some cosmic cross-threading between Miss Bankhead
and Mrs. Do'othy Parker.
Joe Fineman - 17 Nov 2007 01:01 GMT
> TB and Helen Hayes were having a girl-to-girl talk when Hayes said,
> "Tell me the truth, Tallulah--have you ever gone to bed with a
> perfect stranger?"
>
> "Daaah-ling," Tallulah responded, "nobody's perfect."

It is also said that in 1933, when FDR called in all the gold, she
arrived at the bank with a big stack of gold coins.  "Why, Miss
Bankhead," said the teller, "you've been hoarding!"  "Never mind how I
got it," she replied.  "Bank it."
Signature

---  Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||:  Dogs, children, and fools can pay honest compliments.  :||
John Dean - 16 Nov 2007 23:13 GMT
>>> Sunday again on CBC,
>>> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> (For those who have read "The Naked And The Dead").

But it was *because* Nomin spelt it 'fug' that Dorothy asked the question.
Signature

John Dean
Oxford

tinwhistler - 16 Nov 2007 23:26 GMT
> >>> Sunday again on CBC,
> >>> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> But it was *because* Nomin spelt it 'fug' that Dorothy asked the question.
[snip]

I believe Norman had the spelling correct, and that it was a major
case of bowdlerizing by publishing house editors.  Also, some
credentialed folks claiming to know say that it was Bankhead, not
Parker, who asked the question.
--
Aloha `~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
John Dean - 17 Nov 2007 01:30 GMT
>>>>> Sunday again on CBC,
>>>>> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> credentialed folks claiming to know say that it was Bankhead, not
> Parker, who asked the question.

Mailer reported that he'd never met Bankhead. His take on the affair, as per
wiki, is:

"The publishers of The Naked and the Dead persuaded Mailer to use the
euphemism "fug" in lieu of "f.ck" in his novel. Mailer's version of a
subsequent incident follows:

"...The word has been a source of great embarrassment to me over the years
because, you know, Tallulah Bankhead's press agent, many years ago, got a
story in the papers which went...'Oh, hello, you're Norman Mailer,' said
Tallulah Bankhead allegedly, 'You're the young man that doesn't know how to
spell...' You know, the four-letter word was indicated with all sorts of
asterisks... I thought she [Bankhead] should have hired a publicity man who
had a better sense of fair play." (1968 Panel Discussion, CBLT-TV, Toronto,
moderated by Robert Fulford) From "Conversations with Norman Mailer", 1988.
Edited by J. Michael Lennon."

Or there's George Plimpton's book on Truman Capote:

http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/1297/plimpton/excerpt.html

(Mailer is speaking of a ball Capote [1] held in 1966. No, not THAT kind of
ball.)
"For example, there was Talullah Bankhead! For twenty years she'd been
enjoying the coup her public relations man had given her when as the legend
had it, she said to me, "Oh, you're the young man who doesn't know how to
spell 'f.ck.'" For those who are too young to know, it was because I had
used "fug" in The Naked and the Dead. Of course we had never met. For me it
was like a burr under a saddle. Of course I blew the opportunity to tell her
off. She looked too attractive and, big surprise, too vulnerable."

[1] Reminds me of that old joke about the 'capote noire' which ends "Ah!
Quelle finesse!"
Signature

John Dean
Oxford

Father Ignatius - 17 Nov 2007 05:38 GMT
John Dean <john-dean@fraglineone.net> het geskryf:

> Or there's George Plimpton's book on Truman Capote:
>
> http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/1297/plimpton/excerpt.html

Goodness.  In inverstigating whether "tumbrel" was
leftpondian for "tumbril", I discover that either is "a
cucking [sic] stool".
R H Draney - 17 Nov 2007 07:42 GMT
Father Ignatius filted:

>Goodness.  In inverstigating whether "tumbrel" was
>leftpondian for "tumbril", I discover that either is "a
>cucking [sic] stool".

Which brings us back to La Parker, who once asked what a group of people at a
Halloween party were doing..."ducking for apples", she was told, to which she
replied "there but for a typographical error is the story of my life"....r

Signature

"He come in the night when one sleep on a bed.
With a hand he have the basket and foods."
- David Sedaris explains the Easter rabbit

tinwhistler - 17 Nov 2007 06:21 GMT
[snip]

> [1] Reminds me of that old joke about the 'capote noire' which ends "Ah!
> Quelle finesse!"
[snip]

The way Mark Israel told the story in 1991, here at AUE,  the punch
line of that old joke was different --  maybe better; a copy-and-
paste:

From: useri...@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca (Mark Israel)
Date: 28 Oct 91 17:52:59 GMT
Local: Mon, Oct 28 1991 9:52 am
Subject: capote anglaise
In article <2...@tuegate.tue.nl>, gt...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
writes:

>> French letter- (condom)- apparently the french have a composite with
>> <English> in it.

> Capot d'Anglais, if my schoolboy French serves me well.

  That's "capote anglaise" (feminine).  It does mean "condom".
(But the usual French word for "condom" is "preservatif".)

  Speaking of "capotes anglaises", let me tell you a story
that dates from a time when even in France such goods were
not openly sold.

  An American couple were vacationing in Paris when the
wife suddenly died.  Because they had been looking forward
to their trip for many years, the husband decided to have
the funeral in Paris.  He had made all the preparations when,
on the day of the funeral, he realised that he didn't have
a black hat to wear.  After ascertaining from his concierge
that what he needed was "un chapeau noir", he rushed out
to find a shop open late.  Seeing a gendarme, the American
in his clipped French asked him:  "M'sieur, ou peux-je
acheter un capeau noir?".

  The policeman looked a bit surprised, but gave him some
directions.  After following the directions, the American
found himself in front of a shop that looked a bit run down
and seedy.  But the man inside looked friendly enough, so
in went our friend and said:

  "M'sieur, je voudrais acheter un capeau noir."

  "Desole, monsieur," replied the shopkeeper, "j'ai
des capotes rouges, des capotes blanches, et des capotes
marronnes, mais pas de capotes noires.  Pourquoi avez-vous
besoin d'une capote noire?"

  "Ma femme est morte."

  "O monsieur!  Quel beau sentiment!"

useri...@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca            Mark Israel

--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Nick Spalding - 17 Nov 2007 12:17 GMT
tinwhistler wrote, in
<5bc9ecb4-03cd-497d-a1b7-bd5fe302ce4d@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
on Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:21:55 -0800 (PST):

> [snip]
>
> > [1] Reminds me of that old joke about the 'capote noire' which ends "Ah!
> > Quelle finesse!"
> [snip]
[snip]

>    "O monsieur!  Quel beau sentiment!"

Quelle delicatesse!

in the version I remember.
Signature

Nick Spalding

Peter Moylan - 17 Nov 2007 06:54 GMT
> [1] Reminds me of that old joke about the 'capote noire' which ends
> "Ah! Quelle finesse!"

That was almost as bad as STS. I knew I'd heard the joke, but couldn't
remember. Fortunately, it turned out to be googlable.

That, in turn, reminds me of the one joke in French that I've never been
able to translate into English. It concerns a man at a formal dinner,
who becomes aware during the course of the dinner that his increasing
intestinal rumblings are about to lead to an embarrassing release. To
solve the problem he goes out and finds an empty room. Free at last to
let go, he expels the offending gas, and then does a little dance around
the floor while wildly flapping the tails of his coat.

At that moment, a waiter enters the room, and precipitates the part that
I'm unable to translate.

- Ah, quelle pétulance, dit le serveur.
- Monsieur ! , dit l'autre d'un ton choqué. Il ne faut pas me tutoyer.

Signature

Peter Moylan                             http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Pat Durkin - 17 Nov 2007 17:24 GMT
>> [1] Reminds me of that old joke about the 'capote noire' which ends
>> "Ah! Quelle finesse!"
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> - Ah, quelle pétulance, dit le serveur.
> - Monsieur ! , dit l'autre d'un ton choqué. Il ne faut pas me tutoyer.

Not a French expert, so perhaps Isabel can help out here:

"pet(e)?" can sound like "fart" or "stink" (from petard)

"lancer" can mean throw or toss

"tu" is  familiar "you",of course.

"What a stink you made!", said the waiter.

Shocked, the guest reprimands the waiter for getting too familiar (using
"tu" instead of "vous").

I wonder what the usage word is for "voustoyer" (sorry, but I don't know
the word, do I?).

It is very funny.  I am assuming the snooty waiter has come into the
room in a snit about some other guest, or is commenting about the fuss
the flapping guest is making.  What a bother!  What a display!
(Assuming the English for pétulance is the same as the French)

From Free Online Dictionary  (Note that we occasionally use "in a pet"
w/r/t other thread involving Cognito et al):
petulance - an irritable petulant feeling
choler, crossness, fretfulness, fussiness, irritability, peevishness
ill humor, ill humour, distemper - an angry and disagreeable mood
testiness, tetchiness, touchiness - feeling easily irritated
pet - a fit of petulance or sulkiness (especially at what is felt to be
a slight)
Father Ignatius - 17 Nov 2007 17:44 GMT
> I wonder what the usage word is for "voustoyer" (sorry,
> but I don't know the word, do I?).

It's "vuvoyer", wouldja believe?
Father Ignatius - 17 Nov 2007 18:10 GMT
>> I wonder what the usage word is for "voustoyer" (sorry,
>> but I don't know the word, do I?).
>
> It's "vuvoyer", wouldja believe?

Oops.  Sorry.  Ignore, please.
Isabelle Cecchini - 17 Nov 2007 17:52 GMT
Pat Durkin a écrit :
[...]
>> - Ah, quelle pétulance, dit le serveur.
>> - Monsieur ! , dit l'autre d'un ton choqué. Il ne faut pas me tutoyer.
>
> Not a French expert, so perhaps Isabel can help out here:

> "pet(e)?" can sound like "fart" or "stink" (from petard)

Yes, that's "pet", and it means "a fart".

> "lancer" can mean throw or toss
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I wonder what the usage word is for "voustoyer" (sorry, but I don't know
> the word, do I?).

"Voustoyer" is a very nice mix of "vouvoyer" (some people say
"voussoyer") and "tutoyer".

> It is very funny.  I am assuming the snooty waiter has come into the
> room in a snit about some other guest, or is commenting about the fuss
> the flapping guest is making.  What a bother!  What a display!
> (Assuming the English for pétulance is the same as the French)
[snip definition for English "petulance"]

"Petulance" is one those false friends that our teachers used to warn us
about. Its meaning in French is that of vivacity, vigour, exuberance, or
high-spiritedness.

The waiter is actually complimenting the guest about his dancing.

In my family, the punch line is attributed to the actor Raimu, who is
supposed to have answered "Je ne vois pas pourquoi vous me tutoyez"
(said with a strong Marseilles accent) to an admirer who was
complimenting him --"C'était magnifique ! Quelle pétulance !"-- after a
performance.

Signature

Isabelle Cecchini

Pat Durkin - 17 Nov 2007 18:58 GMT
> Pat Durkin a écrit :
> [...]
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> "Voustoyer" is a very nice mix of "vouvoyer" (some people say
> "voussoyer") and "tutoyer".

Ok,  thanks.  I think that, except for the spelling,  FI had the verb
right.

>> It is very funny.  I am assuming the snooty waiter has come into the
>> room in a snit about some other guest, or is commenting about the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> complimenting him --"C'était magnifique ! Quelle pétulance !"-- after
> a performance.

Ah, thanks.  Getting puns in other languages is difficult, and
explaining them even more so.
Peter Moylan - 18 Nov 2007 03:01 GMT
>> - Ah, quelle pétulance, dit le serveur.
>> - Monsieur ! , dit l'autre d'un ton choqué. Il ne faut pas me tutoyer.
>
> Not a French expert, so perhaps Isabel can help out here:

Oh, I know what it means. The frustrating thing is knowing how to
explain it to someone who doesn't understand French. You can explain the
play on words "quelle pétulance" vs "quel pet tu lances", which just
happen to be pronounced the same way. The real difficulty is that
English doesn't have any concepts similar to "tutoyer" and "vouvoyer",
and if you have to explain a joke at that level then it ceases to be funny.

(Translation not provided because Isabelle has already explained the
crucial words.)

Signature

Peter Moylan                             http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

Father Ignatius - 28 Nov 2007 16:08 GMT
Father Ignatius <FatherIgnatius@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> het
geskryf:

> Sunday again on CBC,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Come to the party in the john,
> Pee Po Belly Bum Drawers.

And he just won the 2007 Bad sex in Fiction Award.
http://afp.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5hJfrifMDMP0cZ62ZJu-Txi65Ppiw

Signature

Nat

-----

"Guns don't kill people; people kill people. Guns defend
people from people with smaller guns."

    ---/American Dad/

Mike M - 29 Nov 2007 14:51 GMT
On 28 Nov, 16:08, "Father Ignatius"
<FatherIgnat...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
> Father Ignatius <FatherIgnat...@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> het
> geskryf:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> And he just won the 2007 Bad sex in Fiction Award.http://afp.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5hJfrifMDMP0cZ62ZJu-Txi65Ppiw

Shame. They could have given him a "lifetime achievement" award.

Mike M
 
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