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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004bodega
The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and cigarettes. Is it really a wineshop? Does it often have a butchery, or is that something else? >The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined >with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I >imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and >cigarettes. Is it really a wineshop? Does it often have a butchery, or is >that something else? Many of the small, independently-owned, grocery stores in the Hispanic areas of this town have signs out in front that label them as a Bodega. They may sell wine, but wine is not the main product sold. There are also many stores that use the word "Botanica" in their signage. They seem to sell religious items and herbal remedies. > >The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined > >with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > areas of this town have signs out in front that label them as a > Bodega. They may sell wine, but wine is not the main product sold. "This town"? Coop, I'm confused -- I thought you said you lived in an unincorporated area! (Are there really bodegas near that golf course of yours?) >>> The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, >>> sometimes combined with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > unincorporated area! (Are there really bodegas near that golf course > of yours?) You should see what malls and businesses Merritt Island, the unincorporated Florida area I used to live in, has. It is more of a city than the surrounding incorporated cities of Cocoa, Cocoa Beach, and Cape Canaveral can claim to be. The difference is merely in the lack of incorporation, for one reason or another.  SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > >>> The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, > >>> sometimes combined with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > can claim to be. The difference is merely in the lack of incorporation, for > one reason or another. Taxes and/or zoning. Gubmint regalation. Jon Miller > The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined > with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I > imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and > cigarettes. That's what a bodega is in New York City. (R.F. will be along shortly to add details.) > Is it really a wineshop? Does it often have a butchery, or is > that something else? What are these things you call "wineshop" and "butchery"? It wouldn't sell wine and it wouldn't employ a butcher, but it would sell beer and it might have a deli counter. SignatureSML ess el five six zero at columbia dot edu <http://pirate-women.com> In our last episode, <1g6zlmw.1v1ueqiu14jmoN%sl560_delete_this_@columbia.edu>, the lovely and talented Sara Moffat Lorimer broadcast on alt.usage.english: >> The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined >> with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I >> imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and >> cigarettes. > That's what a bodega is in New York City. (R.F. will be along shortly to > add details.) Does that differ in any significant way from a New York "candy store"? SignatureLars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ There is a set of religious, or rather moral, writings which teach that virtue is the certain road to happiness, and vice to misery in this world. A very wholesome and comfortable doctrine, and to which we have but one objection, namely, that it is not true. --Henry Fielding > In our last episode, > <1g6zlmw.1v1ueqiu14jmoN%sl560_delete_this_@columbia.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Does that differ in any significant way from a New York "candy store"? The categories overlap. > In our last episode, > <1g6zlmw.1v1ueqiu14jmoN%sl560_delete_this_@columbia.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Does that differ in any significant way from a New York "candy store"? Candy stores are extinct. We have delis and Koreans, except in Spanish- speaking areas. Tnere we have bodegas. Gary >>The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined >>with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sell wine and it wouldn't employ a butcher, but it would sell beer and > it might have a deli counter. I first met the word "bodega" in London, in 1973. It was the name of a pub down the street from where I worked. I looked up the word, and it meant something like " place where wine is matured". I thought it had something to do with the production of sherry. The NYC usage - meaning a little grocery store - was quite new to me. SignatureFrances Kemmish Production Manager East Coast Youth Ballet www.byramartscenter.com > The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined > with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I > imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and > cigarettes. Is it really a wineshop? Does it often have a butchery, or is > that something else? In Jerez, a bodega is where sherry is manufactured and stored. I spent several happy days there last year touring the bodegas. The admission fee pays for a guided tour and a sampling session. The smell alone is intoxicating and some of the buildings are very pretty. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com spake thus: > The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined > with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've never seen one - I > imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which also sells beer and > cigarettes. Is it really a wineshop? Does it often have a butchery, or is > that something else? In Catalan Spain, a bodega is a wine shop (at least I've never noticed them selling anything other than alcohol). SignatureDavid ===== tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com escribió : > The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes > combined with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities'. I've > never seen one - I imagine a Mom and Pop grocery on the corner which > also sells beer and cigarettes. Is it really a wineshop? It depends on where the bodega is located. In some Hispanic countries, as Colombia, Venezuela and others in tropical areas, wine is expensive (it has to be imported), so I think that, there, other alcoholic beverages, mainly rum, are sold in bodegas, but not wine. I gues that in the USA, due to its laws about selling alcoholic beverages, wine is not sold in bodegas. > Does it > often have a butchery, or is that something else? Not often. Meat is usually sold in "carnicerías" ("carnecerías", "carnerías", and probably other similar words derived from "carne", that is, "meat"). In Spain, "bodega" can be either "wine cellar", "wine shop", "wine bar" or "hold" (of a ship or airplane), but never "grocery". The word comes from Greek "apotheka", from which French "boutique" (shop), Catalonian "botiga" (grocery), and very probably the meaning of "bodega" in Hispanic America is due to Catalonian influence. SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I am an artist You are a Bohemian He forgot to shave this morning (Craig Brown) I just came across this message from "Javi" <poziyoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>, which has been sitting on alt.usage.english since Sat, 3 Jan 2004 19:59:36 +0100. >tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com escribió : > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Catalonian "botiga" (grocery), and very probably the meaning of "bodega" in >Hispanic America is due to Catalonian influence. I looked up "bodega" in the Royal Academy's Dictionary just before finding Javi's post, which it confirms. The first several meanings have to do with wine maturing, storage, and sale; the remainder obviously derive from that. My Spanish is mostly Mexican; "bodega" isn't much used there, and my impression of its meaning (I never had a reason before to look it up) was something like "warehouse or store". I'm charmed by the derivation from "apotheka". Regards, John SignatureJohn Estill Millersburg, Ohio USA >It depends on where the bodega is located. In some Hispanic countries, as >Colombia, Venezuela and others in tropical areas, wine is expensive (it has >to be imported), so I think that, there, other alcoholic beverages, mainly >rum, are sold in bodegas, but not wine. I gues that in the USA, due to its >laws about selling alcoholic beverages, wine is not sold in bodegas. You will learn, as you continue to have contact with Americans, that it is never safe to say never. The bodegas in the towns near my unincorporated areas sell wine if they sell beer, and most do. A retail license to sell alcoholic beverages is good (in this area) for both wine and beer. > >It depends on where the bodega is located. In some Hispanic countries, as > >Colombia, Venezuela and others in tropical areas, wine is expensive (it has [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > retail license to sell alcoholic beverages is good (in this area) for > both wine and beer. And just to make things interesting, Tennessee makes a distinction based on alcohol content. Grocery stores are allowed to sell beer (they have a beer license), except for that which has a high enough alcohol content to require a liquor license (which covers wine and distilled spirits). It is also illegal to sell alcohol within 100 feet of a church, except in the Nashville Arena, which is only 85 feet from a church. Ain't politics fun? More fun is that Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey is distilled in a dry (no alcohol sales whatever) county. I don't know how many of those there are left in the whole country, let alone the state. It is my belief that Illinois and Indiana have just one license for all alcoholic beverages (package liquor, see below). Also, there is a distinction (I am willing to hazard a guess in all jurisdictions) between that sold to be taken away ("package liquor") and that to be consumed on the premises ("serving permit"? or "by the drink"). Hmm. Apparently 306 cheeses destroys unity (DeGaulle quote, I may misremember the number), but the same number (at least!) of different liquor laws leaves us just one big happy melting pot of homogeneity. Jon Miller [...] > Also, there is a distinction (I am willing to hazard a guess in all > jurisdictions) between that sold to be taken away ("package liquor") and > that to be consumed on the premises ("serving permit"? or "by the drink"). [...] In UK there's a clear distinction between an "off" licence and an "on" one. Pubs usually (maybe always) have a licence to sell "for consumption on or off the premises", and should have lower prices for "off sales". A shop restricted to off sales is usually called an "off-licence" (stress on the "off"), often abbreviated to "offie". Scottish practice and language varies in detail from that of England and Wales, I think. Mike. Tony Cooper escribió : >> It depends on where the bodega is located. In some Hispanic >> countries, as Colombia, Venezuela and others in tropical areas, wine [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You will learn, as you continue to have contact with Americans, that > it is never safe to say never. Sorry, I meant "usually", but I forgot to write it. Anyway, I did not write "never". > The bodegas in the towns near my > unincorporated areas sell wine if they sell beer, and most do. A > retail license to sell alcoholic beverages is good (in this area) for > both wine and beer. I believed that a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer was expensive and not easy to get, and that it required a different room, detached from the room where food is sold. I see that I was wrong. SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I am an artist You are a Bohemian He forgot to shave this morning (Craig Brown) > Tony Cooper escribió : > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > beer was expensive and not easy to get, and that it required a different > room, detached from the room where food is sold. I see that I was wrong. In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer requires not just a different room from the room where food is sold, but a different *outside* entrance. It must be relatively rarely done, because I've seen only two businesses here which do it. SignatureRaymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com << [Raymond S. Wise] In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer requires not just a different room from the room where food is sold, but a different *outside* entrance. It must be relatively rarely done, because I've seen only two businesses here which do it. [end quote] >> Can you go from one room to the other while staying inside? -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > << [Raymond S. Wise] > In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Can you go from one room to the other while staying inside? No. SignatureRaymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com [...] > In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer > requires not just a different room from the room where food is sold, but a > different *outside* entrance. It must be relatively rarely done, because > I've seen only two businesses here which do it. Another memory triggered! Many English pubs used to have a separate door marked "Jug and Bottle" (and I imagine many still do): this led to a tiny apartment where you could get your own container filled, at the "off" price, with the local wallop. Local wallop is, of course, largely a thing of the past now that we have become inured to the idea of paying transport costs for a product consisting mainly of water: another supermarket-type case of the unnaturally low price of petroleum products. (I sometimes wonder if the Volstead Act might not actually have stuck if it had allowed beer. In earlier generations rural Englishmen and Welshmen never touched anything but beer or cider, and most still don't drink spirits as a matter of course. It's not long since drinking "shorts" was regarded as unmanly.) Mike. > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > another supermarket-type case of the unnaturally low price of > petroleum products. My local 40 years ago had a door marked "off-licence" which led to a little room not much larger than a cupboard with a counter where one could buy bottles etc. There was no way to get from this room to any of the bars. I think this was fairly general. Bob Martin > > Another memory triggered! Many English pubs used to have a separate > > door marked "Jug and Bottle" (and I imagine many still do): this led [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bob Martin Somewhere that I lived, I think it was New Jersey, issued licenses for ON and OFF premises sales. A shop might have a sign that said "ABC ON AND OFF", meaning "Alcoholic Beverage Control Board license for on and off premises". SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. > [...] > > In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to a tiny apartment where you could get your own container filled, at > the "off" price, with the local wallop. Tennessee must still have a similar law, because you have to go to the brewhouse to get your growler filled. You can enter from the restaurant, but you must leave without going through the restaurant. > Local wallop is, of course, > largely a thing of the past now that we have become inured to the idea > of paying transport costs for a product consisting mainly of water: > another supermarket-type case of the unnaturally low price of > petroleum products. Brew pubs are springing up all over the place. Enough to get states without them to change their laws to allow them. Not enough to affect the price of Anheuser-Busch stock. Jon Miller > [...] > > In Minnesota, a license to sell alcoholic beverages stronger than plain beer [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Another memory triggered! ... Just walking into some of these bars can be indeed funny. Not too long ago I saw this lunatic British girl with her chubby mamacita date, and she thought that I am after her lover Everybody was watching her as she was losing her sanity. I think she was too drunk. It was so fun watching her rude and some how silly behavior in the bar..... > > Tony Cooper escribió : > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > different *outside* entrance. It must be relatively rarely done, because > I've seen only two businesses here which do it. Takeaway. Lots of restaurants serve. Practically everything. Plus, lots of taverns sell food. I know. I saw "Fargo". Jon Miller Once upon a 1/5/04 2:25 AM, in the land of btbdl3$5539v$1@ID-177688.news.uni-berlin.de, the very good"Javi" from <poziyoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: > Tony Cooper escribió : > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > beer was expensive and not easy to get, and that it required a different > room, detached from the room where food is sold. I see that I was wrong. It varies by state. Alcohol sales, like most things, are regulated by the state governments not the national government. > It varies by state. Alcohol sales, like most things, are regulated by the > state governments not the national government. And even county governments. The example of a dry county has been mentioned already. Montgomery County, Maryland, has county liquor stores. In the Commonwealth of Virginia, distilled spirits are sold only in State Liquor Stores. Beer and wine, including fortified wines, are sold in drugstores, supermarkets, and specialty shops. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. Once upon a 1/5/04 12:45 PM, in the land of ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-Jfjkwkipt8bM@dialup-171.75.33.19.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.n >> It varies by state. Alcohol sales, like most things, are regulated by the >> state governments not the national government. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Liquor Stores. Beer and wine, including fortified wines, are sold in > drugstores, supermarkets, and specialty shops. In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, even wine is limited to state stores, which were called "State Stores". They used to be pretty shady looking establishments, a brick facade with narrow little windows above eye level so you couldn't look in while passing by. Once inside, there was a bare lobby area in front of a counter, which ran the full width of the building, so there was no chance of someone dashing around behind it. All the bottles were in the back room well behind the counter. You had to ask the man behind the counter to go get whatever you wanted, and he'd go back among the shelves and fetch it. There was a little catalog to let you know what was available. It seems they now have self-serve "Wine and Spirits Shoppes", but it's all still under the control of the state government. Here in California, every corner grocery sells beer and wine and every supermarket has two or three aisles of alcoholic beverages. > Here in California, every corner grocery sells beer and wine and every > supermarket has two or three aisles of alcoholic beverages. You have corners? Once upon a 1/5/04 6:56 PM, in the land of Pine.GSO.4.53.0401052155570.14312@alumni.wesleyan.edu, the very good "R F" from <rfontana@alumni.wesleyan.edu> wrote: >> Here in California, every corner grocery sells beer and wine and every >> supermarket has two or three aisles of alcoholic beverages. > > You have corners? We got corners, we got squares, we got long, straight for miles streets called Market and Mission and Broadway, at least until you get over Castro and start up towards Twin Peaks, where you get a view down Market you just wouldn't believe. I think I left something up there. But it doesn't end in the city. Belmont, Redwood City, Menlo Park and Palo Alto have corners, too. Hell, even Cupertino has corners, but no groceries, unless they're, like, Whole Natural Organic Vegan Groceries. This reminds me; 4 AM New Year's Day while I await the arrival of the free-for-the-night Muni bus, some guy half drunk at the corner of Mission and 2nd yells out to me across the street, "Hey, is this Eddy? Is this Eddy?" I sent him across Market. Hope he found what he was looking for. > Once upon a 1/5/04 6:56 PM, in the land of > Pine.GSO.4.53.0401052155570.14312@alumni.wesleyan.edu, the very good "R F" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > You have corners? In California we have corners, coroners, cornices, even porters who've cornered corn. You should come out and see sometime.... > We got corners, we got squares, we got long, straight for miles streets > called Market and Mission and Broadway, at least until you get over Castro > and start up towards Twin Peaks, where you get a view down Market you just > wouldn't believe. I think I left something up there. Youthful illusions, perchance? Last time I was up there I found some discarded in the parking lot. > But it doesn't end in the city. Belmont, Redwood City, Menlo Park and Palo > Alto have corners, too. Hell, even Cupertino has corners, but no groceries, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and 2nd yells out to me across the street, "Hey, is this Eddy? Is this > Eddy?" I sent him across Market. Hope he found what he was looking for. Eddy typically hangs out between Ellis and the Turk. Rum company. -skipka [...] > the free-for-the-night Muni bus, [...] Goddamned Communists! Mike. >> the free-for-the-night Muni bus, [...] > Goddamned Communists! In Russia you do not drive bus, bus drives you! > Once upon a 1/5/04 12:45 PM, in the land of > ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-Jfjkwkipt8bM@dialup-171.75.33.19.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.n > > In the Commonwealth of Virginia, distilled spirits are sold only in State > > Liquor Stores. Beer and wine, including fortified wines, are sold in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > shelves and fetch it. There was a little catalog to let you know what was > available. Forty years ago the Virginia state liquor stores were worse. You entered a bare room with a window in the far wall. All the bottles were behind the wall. And if they didn't stock what you wanted, they would order it for you but only a full case, as I discovered when I wanted to buy one bottle of Chartreuse. > It seems they now have self-serve "Wine and Spirits Shoppes", but it's all > still under the control of the state government. Same in Virginia, but our local store still has the glass bricks in the facade. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. > tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com escribió : > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Catalonian "botiga" (grocery), and very probably the meaning of "bodega" in > Hispanic America is due to Catalonian influence. For what it's worth, "bodega" is a completely foreign concept in San Francisco. Some stores use the word in their names, but it isn't a general term. Generally, we have "corner markets" and "liquor stores." Corner markets are mini super-markets (a wide variety of commonly used grocery items -- often in small quantities), and usually carry a small selection of alcoholic beverages. Liquor stores specialize in alcoholic beverages (and may have rows and rows of them) but also carry other items as well. There's a fair amount of overlap. There are also produce markets -- they carry a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables, and sometimes other items as well. -- Adam Maass >The dictionary defines 'bodega' as 'a small grocery store, sometimes combined >with a wineshop, in certain Hispanic communities' A confession: Just before Xmas, I was shopping in Safeways, the wine shelves to be precise. Look, I'm unemployed and skint, and I know it's pikey, but Safeways is nearby. I wandered the shelves aimlessly, looking for anything a little better than Blue Nun. Also shopping here were a local couple (you could tell by the his' 'n her's shellsuits). I think it was a Xmas treat for them, a bottle of wine instead of the usual tramshed lager and alcopops. They stopped by one bottle in particular, I'd already noticed its large and rather showy label myself - "Bodegas del Pape", with a large triple crown above it. "Ere", quoth Waynetta, "wozzat thern? Bowdagos dell Papa ?" Possessed by a surfeit of Xmas cheer, or else some left-over Halloween devilment, I offered an explanation. "Pape" was the Pope, hence the papal crown. And bodegas were... At this point I explained a little known (outside Usenet) piece of papal (and probably apocryphal) history. Except that instead of explaining "bodega" as a winery, I told the story of Pope Joan. The female Pope, the horseback childbirth during an Easter parade, the gynophobic terror of the Roman Catholic church, and the measures taken to ensure such a thing never happens again, right down to the "ventilated" chair and the groping of the papal bodegas by a novice nun. And they listened, wide-eyed and spell-bound, to every lying word of it..... > And they listened, wide-eyed and spell-bound, to every lying word of > it..... Truly a Christmas story to melt the heart of Jack Frost hisself! Andy Dingley filted: >At this point I explained a little known (outside Usenet) piece of >papal (and probably apocryphal) history. Except that instead of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >And they listened, wide-eyed and spell-bound, to every lying word of >it..... ...and everyone agreed it was the best Christmas *ever*....r |
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