Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching
Learnglish.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Complicit?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Steve Hayes - 05 Jan 2004 04:57 GMT
Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?

Someone compiled a document recently that contained the phrase "failure to
speak would render us complicit in ...."

I didn't like the phrasing, and edited it to remove the word, but others put
it back.

I then looked up "complicit" in my dictionary, to try to find what it meant,
and could not find the word at all. Obviously it was intended to sugges
complicity, but it struck me as unwise to use an apparently made-up word in a
public document.

Has anyone else used it, or got a dictionary that defines it?

Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
Skitt - 05 Jan 2004 05:12 GMT
> Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Has anyone else used it, or got a dictionary that defines it?

See http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: com·plic·it
Pronunciation: k&m-'pli-s&t
Function: adjective
Date: 1973
: having complicity

Main Entry: com·plic·i·ty
Pronunciation: k&m-'pli-s(&-)tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: circa 1656
1 : association or participation in or as if in a wrongful act
2 : an instance of complicity

Signature

Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

Stuart Leichter - 05 Jan 2004 19:23 GMT
> > Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Date: 1973
> : having complicity

In an email exchange about a year ago, I used 'complicit' and was asked
about it, the reader not thinking it was 'a word'. Yet, I've used it for
many years and have seen it frequently in print. The 1973 minting date (to
my thinking) points to Watergate, either the formal hearings or the
reportage.

> Main Entry: com·plic·i·ty
> Pronunciation: k&m-'pli-s(&-)tE
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 1 : association or participation in or as if in a wrongful act
> 2 : an instance of complicity

Signature

Stuart

Don Aitken - 05 Jan 2004 05:12 GMT
>Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Has anyone else used it, or got a dictionary that defines it?

Onelook finds four of them: http://www.onelook.com/?w=complicit&ls=a .
I would have thought it was a pretty common word; Google gives 65,000
hits.

Signature

Don Aitken

Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".

Bob Cunningham - 05 Jan 2004 07:23 GMT

> >Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?

> >Someone compiled a document recently that contained the phrase "failure to
> >speak would render us complicit in ...."

> >I didn't like the phrasing, and edited it to remove the word, but others put
> >it back.

> >I then looked up "complicit" in my dictionary, to try to find what it meant,
> >and could not find the word at all.

I'm curious to know what dictionary you looked in.  I've
looked in several American dictionaries without failing to
find "complicit".

Okay, now I've looked in a UK dictionary, the _Concise
Oxford Eighth Edition_:  "Complicity" is there but no
"complicit".  Sensing a possible US-UK difference, I look in
the _Chambers Dictionary_ (1993) and find that it isn't
there either.

But it's in the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_:

   complicit /k<schwa>m"plIsIt/ a. L20.
   [Back-form. f. COMPLICITY.]
   Having or showing complicity, that is a party
   to or involved in wrongdoing.
   Independent The absurd notion..that all these
   people are complicit in some criminal conspiracy.

No mention of "especially US" or anything of the sort.  The
source "Independent" isn't much help.  The _NSOED_ "Guide to
the New SOED" doesn't expand on "Independent" as a source,
and there are newspapers called "Independent" scattered all
over the English-speaking world, according to Google.

What newspaper would British people think is likely to be
meant when they hear only that something has appeared in the
pages of the "Independent"?

Now I'm startled to find that the online _Oxford English
Dictionary_ has no entry for "complicit", although it has
"complice", "complicity", and "complicitous".  But it's not
so startling when I notice the "L20" in the _NSOED_ entry.
It stands for "late 20th century", so it seems it may have
been too new to have found its way into the _OED_.

But _Collegiate_ dictionaries starting with the ninth
edition have it, tagged with the date 1973.  That says it
had been attested about fifteen years before the 1980s
_Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary_ was published,
and that supplement was included in the compilation of the
_OED_ second edition.  It appears the Oxford lexicographers
don't always look at American dictionaries to see if they've
overlooked any words.  Or maybe they looked at it as an
American barbarism that wasn't fit to be included in the
_OED_.

Maybe sometime in the next ten or twenty years, when the
Oxford updaters have worked through the rest of the last
half of the alphabet and come around to the "C"s, they'll
add "complicit" to the lexicon.

Incidentally, the word "complicit" provides yet another bit
of evidence that the _Merriam-Webster's Unabridged
Dictionary_ on CD ROM has updates in it that were inserted
after it's parent, the _Webster's Third New International
Dictionary_, was published in 1966.  "Complicit" is in the
former, but not in the latter.

Also incidentally, "complice" was a quite new word to me.
It means the same as "accomplice", someone who is complicit.

Don Aitken - 05 Jan 2004 07:41 GMT
>But it's in the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>meant when they hear only that something has appeared in the
>pages of the "Independent"?

The British national newspaper of that name, no doubt. I think the
same rule would apply to any newspaper name given without an
indication of location. The Independent was founded in the 1980s, so
it won't have provided too many dictionary citations yet. Website
http://www.independent.co.uk/ which is the first hit in a Google
search for <independent newspaper>.

Signature

Don Aitken

Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".

Ray Heindl - 05 Jan 2004 22:23 GMT
> I'm curious to know what dictionary you looked in.  I've
> looked in several American dictionaries without failing to
> find "complicit".

Surprisingly enough, the Random House Unabridged (CD version) doesn't
have it.

Signature

Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

Bob Cunningham - 06 Jan 2004 01:33 GMT

> > I'm curious to know what dictionary you looked in.  I've
> > looked in several American dictionaries without failing to
> > find "complicit".

> Surprisingly enough, the Random House Unabridged (CD
> version) doesn't have it.

My _Random House Unabridged Electronic Dictionary_ (latest
copyright 1996) doesn't have "complicit", but the _Random
House Webster's College Dictionary Second Edition_ (1997)
does have, tacked onto the entry for "complicity":
"complicitous, complicit, _adj_."  (_RHUED_ has at the same
point only "complicitous, _adj_.")

So the word appeared in 1973, according to Merriam-Webster;
was in _Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary_ (1983);
was not in the _RHUED_ (1996), but was in the _RHWCD_
(1997); was not in the  _Concise Oxford Dictionary Eighth
Edition_ (1990) but -- according to an AUE poster -- was in
the _COD_ tenth edition (copyright date?); was in the _New
Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ (1993) but not in
Burchfield's _Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary_
(1987).  

It was evidently not in any of the _Additions_ to the _OED_,
or it would have been in the _OED_ second edition and now in
the online edition.  (_OED2_ was an aggregation of the
original _OED_, a supplement (1930s?) to the latter, the
1987 _Supplement_, the _Additions_ volumes, and twenty or so
thousand other entries.)

To make the time lines a tad smoother, it would be nice to
know if "complicit" was in the eighth _Collegiate_ and also
if it was in _COD9_.  (I have the fifth, seventh, ninth,
tenth, and eleventh _Collegiate_s, but not the sixth or the
eighth.)
Ray Heindl - 06 Jan 2004 21:19 GMT
> To make the time lines a tad smoother, it would be nice to
> know if "complicit" was in the eighth _Collegiate_ and also
> if it was in _COD9_.  (I have the fifth, seventh, ninth,
> tenth, and eleventh _Collegiate_s, but not the sixth or the
> eighth.)

It's not in the eighth MWCD, copyright 1976, either by itself or under
"complicity".

Signature

Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

Steve Hayes - 05 Jan 2004 18:24 GMT
>>Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>I would have thought it was a pretty common word; Google gives 65,000
>hits.

Strange, then, that my Collins doesn't have it -- I thought they compiled
their database from usage.

Steve Hayes
hayesmstw@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
Lars Eighner - 05 Jan 2004 05:34 GMT
In our last episode,
<3ff8e69c.105148612@news.saix.net>,
the lovely and talented Steve Hayes
broadcast on alt.usage.english:

> Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?

> Someone compiled a document recently that contained the phrase "failure to
> speak would render us complicit in ...."

> I didn't like the phrasing, and edited it to remove the word, but others put
> it back.

> I then looked up "complicit" in my dictionary, to try to find what it meant,
> and could not find the word at all. Obviously it was intended to sugges
> complicity, but it struck me as unwise to use an apparently made-up word in a
> public document.

> Has anyone else used it, or got a dictionary that defines it?

If you prefer an older word, try "complicitous."  By now you have
read other responses citing Merriam-Webster who date "complicit"
to 1973.

Signature

Lars Eighner -finger for geek code-  eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
     What is written without effort is in general read without pleasure.
                             --Samuel Johnson

Martin Ambuhl - 05 Jan 2004 06:51 GMT
> Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
[...]
> I then looked up "complicit" in my dictionary, to try to find what it meant,
> and could not find the word at all.
[...]
> Has anyone else used it, or got a dictionary that defines it?

Almost any dictionary would do.

[COD10]
complicit /k@m"plIsIt/
· adj. involved with others in an unlawful activity; having complicity.

I have run an experiment to determine how tiny a dictionary I need not to
find "complicit."  Unfortunately, *all* of my English language dictionaries
 have it, as do all of my translating dictionaries that I use
professionally.

However, my *pocket* English-Chinese, -Japanese, -Spanish, -Russian
dictionaries have neither "complicity" nor "complicit."
My pocket English-Slovene, -French, -German, and -Latin dictionaries have
"complicity," but not "complicit."  It seems that there *is* a level at
which "complicit" does not make the cut for the word list.  Which English
language dictionaries place "complicit" beyond the pale?

Signature

Martin Ambuhl

Frances Kemmish - 05 Jan 2004 11:28 GMT
>> Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> level at which "complicit" does not make the cut for the word list.  
> Which English language dictionaries place "complicit" beyond the pale?

I looked in my Chambers (1973), and it doesn't have "complicit". It has
"complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of being
an accomplice", and "complexity".

Signature

Frances Kemmish
Production Manager
East Coast Youth Ballet
www.byramartscenter.com

Martin Ambuhl - 05 Jan 2004 12:13 GMT
> I looked in my Chambers (1973), and it doesn't have "complicit". It has
> "complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of being
> an accomplice", and "complexity".

I had forgotten to check the dictionaries I no longer use because they
have been replaced by newer editions. MW dates "complicit" to 1973.  I
am not much surprised that a 1973 dictionary doesn't have it.  Your
Chambers is two name changes and 30 years older than the one I use.
Frances Kemmish - 05 Jan 2004 12:29 GMT
>> I looked in my Chambers (1973), and it doesn't have "complicit". It
>> has "complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> am not much surprised that a 1973 dictionary doesn't have it.  Your
> Chambers is two name changes and 30 years older than the one I use.

I have tried to make myself replace my Chambers with a newer edition,
but I have some kind of mental block that prevents me from doing it. I'm
sure we have a couple of Websters dictionaries around the house, but the
Chambers is still the one I use.

It was given to me as a Christmas present in 1973, chosen because it was
recommended for the Times crossword puzzle. I don't do the Times
crossword puzzle any longer, and I'm sure that they have changed their
dictionary of choice, but I still stick with my old dictionary anyway.

I think it's a sign of old age.

Signature

Frances Kemmish
Production Manager
East Coast Youth Ballet
www.byramartscenter.com

Laura F Spira - 05 Jan 2004 12:43 GMT
> I have tried to make myself replace my Chambers with a newer edition,
> but I have some kind of mental block that prevents me from doing it. I'm
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I think it's a sign of old age.

My Chambers is of the same vintage, acquired for a similar reason (the
Listener crossword). It is falling to pieces. I have looked at newer
editions in bookshops but never found myself able to commit to buying
one. I am also sentimentally attached to a 1956 COD and a 1944 Funk and
Wagnall.

NSOED on disk and the OED online are very convenient but I do like to
flip through the pages of a dictionary and enjoy the possibility of
discovery of new words on the way to whatever I'm seeking. And they're
not at all convenient for doing crosswords over breakfast.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Adrian Bailey - 05 Jan 2004 18:16 GMT
> > I looked in my Chambers (1973), and it doesn't have "complicit". It has
> > "complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of being
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> am not much surprised that a 1973 dictionary doesn't have it.  Your
> Chambers is two name changes and 30 years older than the one I use.

"Complicit" isn't in the 1993 edition. Funny how this word has sneaked into
the language without complaint.

Adrian
MC - 05 Jan 2004 18:18 GMT
> > > I looked in my Chambers (1973), and it doesn't have "complicit". It has
> > > "complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of being
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> "Complicit" isn't in the 1993 edition. Funny how this word has sneaked into
> the language without complaint.

It's in the 1994 AHD.
Mike Lyle - 05 Jan 2004 16:02 GMT
> >> Does anyone know of a word "complicit"?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> "complice", and that definition includes "complicity" as "state of being
> an accomplice", and "complexity".

It's interesting, isn't it? I wouldn't have hesitated to use it, and
until this correspondence had no idea that it was a neologism: it
seems so obvious that I'm impressed that Steve picked it up.

I suppose we'd previously have used a phrase such as "to be an
accomplice to/in".

How long before French has *complicite* to go with *complicité*?
Neither *complicite* nor English "complicit" is in my medium-sized
1996 Collins-Robert.

Mike.
Bob Cunningham - 05 Jan 2004 16:07 GMT
[ . . . ]

> > It seems that there *is* a
> > level at which "complicit" does not make the cut
> > for the word list.  Which English language
> > dictionaries place "complicit" beyond the pale?

  The massive, revered _Oxford English Dictionary_,
including the continually updated online version, is one.

  However, it was probably a matter of not knowing it ws
out there rather than knowing it was out there but refusing
to let it in as "beyond the pale" would imply.
Martin Ambuhl - 05 Jan 2004 23:04 GMT
> [ . . . ]
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> out there rather than knowing it was out there but refusing
> to let it in as "beyond the pale" would imply.

This is quite amazing, since the 1993 _New Shorter Oxford English
Dictionary_, 1999 _Concise Oxford Dictionary_, and 2000 _New Oxford
American Dictionary_ all have it.  Are you *sure* that the editors of the
online OED are that out of touch with the rest of the editors of OUP
dictionaries?

Signature

Martin Ambuhl

Bob Cunningham - 06 Jan 2004 01:53 GMT
> > [ . . . ]

> >>>It seems that there *is* a
> >>>level at which "complicit" does not make the cut
> >>>for the word list.  Which English language
> >>>dictionaries place "complicit" beyond the pale?

> >    The massive, revered _Oxford English Dictionary_,
> > including the continually updated online version, is one.

> >    However, it was probably a matter of not knowing it ws
> > out there rather than knowing it was out there but refusing
> > to let it in as "beyond the pale" would imply.

> This is quite amazing, since the 1993 _New Shorter Oxford English
> Dictionary_, 1999 _Concise Oxford Dictionary_, and 2000 _New Oxford
> American Dictionary_ all have it.  Are you *sure* that the editors of the
> online OED are that out of touch with the rest of the editors of OUP
> dictionaries?

  Okay, I've looked again and yes (or should that be
"no"?), "complicit" is not there.

  In looking through the quotations to see if a "complicit"
may have sneaked in unheralded at some point, I find it
incidentally interesting to see "complexity" and
"complicity" apparently equated:

     1847 CRAIG, Complicity, complexity; state of being
     involved.

  Earlier on, I had found it mildly interesting to see that
"complicated" and "complicit" are from the same Latin word,
"complicare".
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2012 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.