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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004quite satisfactory
I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with some sort of grading if the narrator is a 13-year-old boy? Or do you find it simple description that he is satisfied with that school? In the meantime I went to the neighborhood school, and since Fortnum was in a nice neighborhood, my elementary education was quite satisfactory. >I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in >grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >In the meantime I went to the neighborhood school, and since Fortnum was >in a nice neighborhood, my elementary education was quite satisfactory. The latter. Quite definitely. >>I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in >>grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > The latter. Quite definitely. Is "quite satisfactory" more satisfactory than simple "satisfactory"? Is it less satisfactory than "very satisfactory"? > Is "quite satisfactory" more satisfactory than simple "satisfactory"? > Is it less satisfactory than "very satisfactory"? There's a lot of this about! Does a "free gift" cost less than a "gift"? Is "just enough" better than just "enough"? > > Is "quite satisfactory" more satisfactory than simple "satisfactory"? > > Is it less satisfactory than "very satisfactory"? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Does a "free gift" cost less than a "gift"? > Is "just enough" better than just "enough"? In each of these cases, there is a difference between the first and the second term. A "gift" is something one receives without having spent any money. The term "free gift" is typically used to indicate some item which is received only when one has spent money, that is, when one has made a purchase. I understand that the United States Supreme Court heard a case in which they decided that it was not contrary to US law for a company to use "free" in this manner. If an American, talking about the usual first-class postage stamp for a letter, says "I had enough money to buy the stamp," it means that he had 37 cents or more. If he says "I had just enough money to buy the stamp," it means he had only 37 cents, no more.  SignatureRaymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com > Is "just enough" better than just "enough"? I'd say "worse". It implies that there was some uncertainty about whether there would be enough and also that there is little or none left over. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If I am ever forced to make a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |choice between learning and using Palo Alto, CA 94304 |win32, or leaving the computer |industry, let me just say it was kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |nice knowing all of you. :-) (650)857-7572 | Randal Schwartz http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ "masahiko" <masahiko@r5.dion.ne.jp> wrote... > >>I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in > >>grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Is "quite satisfactory" more satisfactory than simple "satisfactory"? > Is it less satisfactory than "very satisfactory"? It means completely satisfactory, which is better than "satisfactory" alone. "Very satisfactory" has internal tension which prevents it from working well for me. Confusingly, "quite" has two usages, "to some extent" and "completely". In these contexts, it means "to some extent": quite interesting quite quickly quite long And in these it means "completely": quite satisfactory quite definitely quite ridiculous If someone can describe the pattern for this, I'd be quite interested. Matti > "masahiko" <masahiko@r5.dion.ne.jp> wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > If someone can describe the pattern for this, I'd be quite interested. There's also "Quite" as a response which may mean confirmation, like "Indeed", but may also be used in an ironic sense. If I wanted to indicate levels of satisfaction I think I would say "completely satisfactory" or "entirely satisfactory". "Quite", to me, indicates adequacy rather completeness. "Quite definitely" and "quite ridiculous" have a further subtle sense of "there could be no possible argument". Depending on the context, these differences could be quite difficult to identify. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> "masahiko" <masahiko@r5.dion.ne.jp> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Depending on the context, these differences could be quite difficult > to identify. [That's quite enough of that. Ed] -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply >"Very satisfactory" has internal tension which prevents it >> from working well for me. This question may deviate from the subject, but let me ask you about this sentence. What do you mean by internal tension here? "masahiko" <masahiko@r5.dion.ne.jp> wrote... > >"Very satisfactory" has internal tension which prevents it > >> from working well for me. > > This question may deviate from the subject, but let me ask you about > this sentence. What do you mean by internal tension here? It was I who wrote that, so don't blame Laura! It seems to me that satisfaction is more a black-and-white concept, not a shades-of-grey one. So it's inappropriate to say that a thing is "partly satisfactory", for instance, and this would be (for me) a phrase which contains an inner conflict, or tension. Matti > "masahiko" <masahiko@r5.dion.ne.jp> wrote... > > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > If someone can describe the pattern for this, I'd be quite interested. If you turn to your copy of Headway Advanced, page 94, you'll see that it all depends on whether the adjective is gradeable or not. (You can test whether an adjective is gradable by seeing whether or not you can use the word "very" in front of it.) Used with a gradable adjective, "quite" means "somewhat"; with a non-gradable, "completely". "Satisfactory" is (in theory) non-gradable, so "quite satisfactory" means "completely satisfactory" (="AOK"). But that's formal usage. Most people who say naff things like "quite satisfactory" aren't saying much, but they definitely aren't meaning "AOK". Adrian >>>I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in >>>grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Is "quite satisfactory" more satisfactory than simple "satisfactory"? >Is it less satisfactory than "very satisfactory"? In this case, no. It's just "satisfactory" said with some emphasis. > >I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in > >grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > The latter. Quite definitely. I'm not quite sure. Seriously, Masahito, I wouldn't use the word "quite" in a formal grading system, as it's ambiguous except at the extremes. It is used to mean both "completely" and "moderately" according to context, sentence-structure, and tone of voice, and so it needs to be used with great care in writing. In "a quite disgusting recipe" it means "absolutely"; and in "quite a good recipe" it means "rather". In other cases, though, such as the one you mention, the meaning may seem uncertain to English-speakers. Mike. > > >I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in > > >grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > sentence-structure, and tone of voice, and so it needs to be used with > great care in writing. Any grading system that includes "quite satisfactory" was devised by a numbskull. Sensible grades might be: "poor", "fair", "satisfactory", "very good", "excellent". Adrian "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote... > Any grading system that includes "quite satisfactory" was devised by a > numbskull. Sensible grades might be: "poor", "fair", "satisfactory", > "very good", "excellent". Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out that the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. Matti > "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out that > the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. m. "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... > > "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote... > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out that > > the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st > numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. > ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. Yes, both are used. But the preferred form in Britain and America omits the 'b', presumed etymology notwithstanding. Matti > "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... >>> "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>> Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out that >>> the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st >> numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. >> ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. > > Yes, both are used. But the preferred form in Britain and America > omits the 'b', presumed etymology notwithstanding. So, it's not an error; just not preferable? m. "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... > > "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... > >>> "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >>> Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out > >>> that the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st > >> numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. > >> ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > So, it's not an error; just not preferable? It could also be an error; "numb" itself looks as if the 'b' was a later addition. And there is "nump", meaning stupid, now archaic but possibly the progenitor of the unrecorded "numpskull". Matti > "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... >>> "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>>> Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out >>>>> that the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st >>>> numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. >>>> ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > later addition. And there is "nump", meaning stupid, now archaic but > possibly the progenitor of the unrecorded "numpskull". OK, gotcha. Is that the numpty that Del Boy uses? m. "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... > > "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... > >>> "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >>>>> Allow me to thank you for your "gradeable" tip by pointing out > >>>>> that the 'b' in "numbskull" is an error. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=numskull&titl e=21st > >>>> numskull or numbskull noun, colloq a stupid person. > >>>> ETYMOLOGY: 18c: numb + skull. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > OK, gotcha. Is that the numpty that Del Boy uses? I'd forgotten that, and I suspect you're right. Matti >>I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in >>grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > The latter. Quite definitely. It's the "quite" that does it. Plain "satisfactory" could well indicate "only just made it". SignatureRob Bannister << [masahiko] I think evaluative expression "quite satisfactory" often appears in grading system. Do you associate the "quite satisfactory" below with some sort of grading if the narrator is a 13-year-old boy? Or do you find it simple description that he is satisfied with that school? In the meantime I went to the neighborhood school, and since Fortnum was in a nice neighborhood, my elementary education was quite satisfactory. [end quite] >> He was satisfied with the school. Very few if any complaints. In the US, "satisfactory" is used in some grading systems for students, but I have never seen "quite satisfactory" used for that. "Quite satisfactory" and "very satisfactory" sometimes appear in survey questions. -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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