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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Shazbat
Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the mainstream? I can start with Shazbat, Frel, and Smeg. Hmmmm. These are all from SF. Is this a phenomenon limited to SF? Do detectives not require alternative curses?  SignatureDavid ===== > Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid > saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > SF. Is this a phenomenon limited to SF? Do detectives not require > alternative curses? Is /Mork and Mindy/ considered to be SF? Shazbat! SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ skitt99@comcast.net spake thus: > > Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid > > saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Is /Mork and Mindy/ considered to be SF? Shazbat! I originally added (or near SF) but took it out as unnecessary. Mork is an alien who drinks with his finger - it walks like SF and quacks like SF. SignatureDavid ===== > Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid > saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > from SF. Is this a phenomenon limited to SF? Do detectives not > require alternative curses? The Coneheads used a word that sounded something like "mibs", if memory serves, as a curse word. But I don't agree with your premise. "Shazbat" wasn't intended to replace some rude English word, was it? I always thought it was intended to *be* a rude word in Orkish. "Mibs" was the same way, except being Remulakan(sp?). I never heard of "frel" or "smeg". As for replacements for English rude words, Ned Flanders might be a source of some, though I can't recall any at the moment. In one of Larry Niven's stories the hero uses "censored" and "bleep" as curse words. An old-timer in the story, presumably dating back to the present, more or less, comments on how odd that sounds. SignatureRay Heindl (remove the Xs to reply) raheindl@xnccwx.net spake thus: > > Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid > > saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > replace some rude English word, was it? I always thought it was > intended to *be* a rude word in Orkish. Presumably yes, but Mork managed to translate all his other words into American English, so why not the swearing? > "Mibs" was the same way, > except being Remulakan(sp?). I never heard of "frel" or "smeg". Farscape and Red Dwarf, respectively. SignatureDavid ===== > raheindl@xnccwx.net spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Presumably yes, but Mork managed to translate all his other words > into American English, so why not the swearing? Furriners always lapse into stray words of Furrin at moments of crisis. Thus the well-spoken Aristo will exclaim 'Sapristi!' as the villain surprises him. I believe M. Poirot was wont to 'Zut!' when things didn't go his way. A generation of South-of-the-Borderers have Ay-Carambad their way through various adventures (Oh Cisco! Oh Pancho!). Even in moments of profound emotion - 'Gracias! ...' with the inevitable '... in my language I thank you Senor'. -- John 'shilpit wee nyaff' Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > But I don't agree with your premise. "Shazbat" wasn't intended to > > replace some rude English word, was it? I always thought it was > > intended to *be* a rude word in Orkish. > > Presumably yes, but Mork managed to translate all his other words > into American English, so why not the swearing? There were several other non-swear Orkish words he never translated. The only one I can remember off the top of my head is "nanu nanu", which I believe was "hello". We received a glossary of Orkish words in one issue of _WOW_ magazine, which was distributed in school, in fifth (?) grade. It's the usual practice to keep certain words (especially interjectional words, expressions of greeting, surprise and thanks) untranslated to preserve the alien, so to say, nature of the character. A Russian-accented character will say "Da!" rather than "Yes", for example. Silly, but a well-established film/television tradition. > > > But I don't agree with your premise. "Shazbat" wasn't intended to > > > replace some rude English word, was it? I always thought it was [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Russian-accented character will say "Da!" rather than "Yes", for example. > Silly, but a well-established film/television tradition. "_Bien sûr,_ my friend," as Hercule Poirot might say. In fact, Poirot is so careful in how he presents himself that I would expect him to be the sort of person who would scrupulously *avoid* using his native language when speaking English, except, perhaps, when using a French term which native English speakers might themselves use: "pâté de foie gras" for example. I have on occasion imagined a Web page project in which two sorts of vocabulary were presented: Fake swear words, such as "Smeg!" "Shazbat!" and "Fek!" (as used in, respectively *Red Dwarf,* *Mork & Mindy,* and *Father Ted*) and fictional measurement terms, such as are used in some science fiction and fantasy stories, with speculation about what, exactly, the measurements represented, in terms of our own measurement systems. There have been bits and pieces of this in various Web sites, but nothing which brought them all together. SignatureRaymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com > I have on occasion imagined a Web page project in which two sorts of > vocabulary were presented: Fake swear words, such as "Smeg!" > "Shazbat!" and "Fek!" (as used in, respectively *Red Dwarf,* *Mork & > Mindy,* and *Father Ted*) 'Feck' is no fake, as the late lamented Padraig would haste to tell us were he here. It's been a standard part of Irish English for a long time and was by no means invented for Father Ted. http://www.local.ie/content/41103.shtml/about_ireland/society/language -- John 'You'll have a cup of tea? You will you will you will you will you will ' Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > I have on occasion imagined a Web page project in which two sorts of > > vocabulary were presented: Fake swear words, such as "Smeg!" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.local.ie/content/41103.shtml/about_ireland/society/language Looks like such a Web page would have to include references to real swear words and measurements which some people might take to be fake. SignatureRaymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com > 'Feck' is no fake, as the late lamented Padraig would haste to tell us were > he here. It's been a standard part of Irish English for a long time and was > by no means invented for Father Ted. But "fek!" (without the C) is the Esperanto exclamation for "crap!", from "feko" (excrement). SignatureStefano http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo >> > But I don't agree with your premise. "Shazbat" wasn't intended >> > to replace some rude English word, was it? I always thought it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of Orkish words in one issue of _WOW_ magazine, which was > distributed in school, in fifth (?) grade. Another is "millibleem", which is how long a commercial break lasts. From this I deduce that a "bleem" is roughly two Earthian days, except on cable, where the commercial breaks are longer. > It's the usual practice to keep certain words (especially > interjectional words, expressions of greeting, surprise and > thanks) untranslated to preserve the alien, so to say, nature of > the character. A Russian-accented character will say "Da!" rather > than "Yes", for example. Silly, but a well-established > film/television tradition. A vaguely related affectation is to use a translator who speaks with an accent of the language being translated. Documentaries on the History Channel sometimes use a Russian accent, for instance, when translating a Russian's speech into English. SignatureRay Heindl (remove the Xs to reply) Ray Heindl filted: >Another is "millibleem", which is how long a commercial break lasts. >From this I deduce that a "bleem" is roughly two Earthian days, except >on cable, where the commercial breaks are longer. The "millibleem" reference first appeared with Mork's debut on "Happy Days" in connection with how long he'd keep Richie before returning him to Earth...at that time it was something like two thousand years....r R H Draney filted: >Ray Heindl filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >connection with how long he'd keep Richie before returning him to Earth...at >that time it was something like two thousand years....r Excuse self-reply.... Found some references...it's a "bleem" that's about two thousand years...if a millibleem is something on the order of two and a half minutes, this suggests perhaps that Orkan metrology assigns some other value to the "milli-" prefix than 10^-3...(either that, or commercials on Ork are *much* longer than they are here)....r >I can start with Shazbat, Frel, and Smeg. "Smeg" is not an invented rude word, it's a less-common word chosen because the media smegheads in London wouldn't realise it was rude. They probably thought it was a brand of kitchen appliances. > >I can start with Shazbat, Frel, and Smeg. > > "Smeg" is not an invented rude word, it's a less-common word chosen > because the media smegheads in London wouldn't realise it was rude. > They probably thought it was a brand of kitchen appliances. Was it ever actually used as an expletive before _Red Dwarf_. Come to think of it, was it ever actually used at all before _Red Dwarf_. "Smegma", sure. But "smeg"? Let alone "smegging" or "smeghead". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The Elizabethans had so many words 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |for the female genitals that it is Palo Alto, CA 94304 |quite hard to speak a sentence of |modern English without inadvertently kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |mentioning at least three of them. (650)857-7572 | Terry Pratchett http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... > > >I can start with Shazbat, Frel, and Smeg. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think of it, was it ever actually used at all before _Red Dwarf_. > "Smegma", sure. But "smeg"? Let alone "smegging" or "smeghead". This is highly topical, because BBC2 aired _Britain's Best Sitcom_ last night, in which the "top 50" were identified. I think the _Red Dwarf_ section claimed that its writers originated "smeg", and I would be prepared to believe it -- I'll rerun the recording and correct this if necessary. The same programme, in the _Porridge_ section, made similar claims for "naff orf" (highly disputable) and "nerk" (more credible). Matti > "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The same programme, in the _Porridge_ section, made similar claims for > "naff orf" (highly disputable) and "nerk" (more credible). I feel sure "naff off" really did originate with *Porridge*. I feel equally sure that "naff" meaning something like "in bad taste" grew out of it. A very good Radio 4 comedy play about the Trojan War had the common soldiery telling one another to "fizz off". (I won't tell you the euphemism I've dreamed up for one I seem unlikely to finish, just in case I ever do.) Bill Bryson sobriqueted his first English landlady "Mrs Smegma". Mike. >> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > equally sure that "naff" meaning something like "in bad taste" grew > out of it. OED quotes: << 1959 K. Waterhouse Billy Liar ii. 37 Naff off, Stamp, for Christ sake! >> and << 1959 K. Waterhouse Billy Liar 46 Well which one of them's got the naffing engagement ring? >> OED says the adjective is 'apparently not related' to the verb, though their earlies cite is from 1969: << 1969 It 13-25 June 16/4 A lot of these bands are pretty naff anyway. >> They suggest origins in Northern or Scottish dialect: << Cf. north. dial. naffhead, naffin, naffy 'a simpleton; a blockhead; an idiot' (Eng. Dial. Dict.); niffy-naffy adj. 'inconsequential, stupid' (Gloss. Whitby 1876); Sc. nyaff 'a term of contempt for any unpleasant or objectional person' (Scot. Nat. Dict.).] >> Kenneth Williams said in his Diaries that 'naff omee' for 'dreary man' was camp slang in the 60s. So I'm pretty sure Porridge had nothing to do with originating it, though a lot to do with popularising it (as did the Princess Royal) -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > >> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > So I'm pretty sure Porridge had nothing to do with originating it, though a > lot to do with popularising it (as did the Princess Royal) Thanks, John: as was obvious, this was all new to me. Should I catch up with *Billy Liar* at this late stage, do you think? Mike. >>>> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Thanks, John: as was obvious, this was all new to me. Should I catch > up with *Billy Liar* at this late stage, do you think? Well, the film's got the 60s Julie Christie in it so, no, not worth bothering. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Matti OED : << 1966 A. Prior Operators xv. 235 ‘Slow it down, you nerk, the girl has to get in,’ he yelled. >> and << 1970 Daily Tel. (Colour Suppl.) 3 July 24/1 The total effect of this nifty trick is that you apparently shot the various paintings+inside the gallery, without being confronted by a uniformed nurk and arrested on the spot.>> Both earlier than Porridge. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply >>> I can start with Shazbat, Frel, and Smeg. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think of it, was it ever actually used at all before _Red Dwarf_. > "Smegma", sure. But "smeg"? Let alone "smegging" or "smeghead". The RD FAQ says : http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/4196/rd-faq2.htm << Subject: What does "smeg" mean? The characters in the show use it as an all-purpose profanity. Apparently derived from "smegma," the term for a particularly unpleasant bodily secretion, the slang term "smeg" was reportedly in use in England before the show premiered, although not commonly. Grant Naylor presumably adopted this little-known bit of Scouse profanity as a blanket replacement for all other swearing, to keep them out of trouble with the BBC and to poke fun at the long-standing convention in science-fiction of inventing futuristic slang. >> But I don't know on what authority. Presumably if it was in error, demented fans would have long since mailbombed the page to oblivion. I never heard it before the show and I frequented some of the slangier parts of NW UK. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > Is there a list of rude words invented for TV or films to avoid > saying the real rude words? Have any of them moved into the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > SF. Is this a phenomenon limited to SF? Do detectives not require > alternative curses? There's a lot more from written sf. The book with the most invented swear words that I've read is _Maia_, by Richard Adams. Recommended for those who like fantasy Gothic romances with significant s&m. What was the TV cartoon where the foiled villain would mutter, "Rassum frassum..."? I stopped on page 4 of Google's results because all the hits were of people using the phrase as euphemisms. SignatureJerry Friedman > What was the TV cartoon where the foiled villain would mutter, "Rassum > frassum..."? Do you mean the famous Hanna-Barbera cartoon mutt Muttley, aka Mumbley, aka Houndley? Ralphie in _A Christmas Story_, recently discussed in the AUE, and his father also make such utterances. Jerry Friedman filted: >What was the TV cartoon where the foiled villain would mutter, "Rassum >frassum..."? I stopped on page 4 of Google's results because all the >hits were of people using the phrase as euphemisms. That was probably Dick Dastardly, although a lot of the Hanna-Barbera villains from the late 60s had a similar speech impediment, voiced as they nearly always were by the same actor, Paul Winchell....r >Jerry Friedman filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >That was probably Dick Dastardly, AKA Daniel Day-Lewis in *Gangs of NewYork* . [1] [1. I'm really glad someone pointed out that remarkable same-roomer to me just after I'd seen the flick, since immediately *before* I saw the movie version of *The Avengers* that same someone uttered the words "Freddy 'Parrot Face' Davies", thereby instantly ensuring that a really hopeless film would be even really hopelesser.] -- Ross Howard gguiri@yahoo.com spake thus: > >Jerry Friedman filted: > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "Freddy 'Parrot Face' Davies", thereby instantly ensuring that a > really hopeless film would be even really hopelesser.] Freddy "Parrot Face" Davies appeared at the end of Cromer Pier (no, he wasn't fishing, but starring in the end of the pier show) when I was a little person. I think I may have found him funny, but I was only 6 or 7, so what did I know? He got me up on stage during the finale and I think I received a Mars Bar. SignatureDavid ===== >Freddy "Parrot Face" Davies appeared at the end of Cromer Pier (no, >he wasn't fishing, but starring in the end of the pier show) when I >was a little person. I think I may have found him funny, but I was >only 6 or 7, so what did I know? He got me up on stage during the >finale and I think I received a Mars Bar. Here's someone else who, while able to remain unfazed by the likes of Jason Robards, lost all self-control in the presence of the great F"PF"D (who's still working the after-dinner circuit, apparently): http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/story/0,3604,575376,00.html -- Ross Howard gguiri@yahoo.com spake thus: > >Freddy "Parrot Face" Davies appeared at the end of Cromer Pier (no, > >he wasn't fishing, but starring in the end of the pier show) when I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/story/0,3604,575376,00.html I'm sick, sick, sick up to here. SignatureDavid ===== >gguiri@yahoo.com spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >I'm sick, sick, sick up to here. HOT F"PF"D NEWS: The comeback is apparently in full swing, beginning with a cameo in the next Harry Potter film (Freddy "Gryphon Face" Davies?) -- Ross Howard >> gguiri@yahoo.com spake thus: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > with a cameo in the next Harry Potter film (Freddy "Gryphon Face" > Davies?) The comeback started a while ago. If you didn't catch him in 'Funny Bones' you haven't lived. And he was quite active on TV in the 90s. Like a lot of comedians who rely on behaviour more than vocabulary for their laughs, he's a good, instinctive actor. The ace in that particular pack was, of course, Max Wall. < I am not worthy > -- John 'I lost my Mother and Father when I was six. <pause> What a card game *that* was' Dean Oxford De-frag to reply john-dean@frag.lineone.net spake thus: > The comeback started a while ago. If you didn't catch him in 'Funny Bones' > you haven't lived. And he was quite active on TV in the 90s. Like a lot of > comedians who rely on behaviour more than vocabulary for their laughs, he's > a good, instinctive actor. The ace in that particular pack was, of course, > Max Wall. < I am not worthy > I seem to have missed Freddy's recent revival. I don't even know what Funny Bones is, so I presumably haven't lived. Max Wall, however, I saw live in Manchester in the 80s. SignatureDavid ===== > john-dean@frag.lineone.net spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > what Funny Bones is, so I presumably haven't lived. Max Wall, > however, I saw live in Manchester in the 80s. http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0113133/combined (but don't read the spoilers if you think you might see it) Written and directed by the man who did 'Hear My Song'. If you liked that, you'll like this. An extraordinary cast. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply john-dean@frag.lineone.net spake thus: > > john-dean@frag.lineone.net spake thus: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Written and directed by the man who did 'Hear My Song'. If you liked that, > you'll like this. An extraordinary cast. Thank you - I shall seek it out. Anything with Leslie Caron and Oliver Reed must be worth a viewing. Never mind Richard Griffiths and Jerry Lewis. Have you discovered imdb's My Movies? Allows you to list all the files you own/have seen/wish to see. Very handy. I tidied up our DVD collection at the weekend and find we have about 90. SignatureDavid ===== > john-dean@frag.lineone.net spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > files you own/have seen/wish to see. Very handy. I tidied up our > DVD collection at the weekend and find we have about 90. Ooh! Hours of fun. I'd never paid any attention to this before. Ta muchly - Een my language I thank you senor. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply |
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