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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004spoon & love
why does *spoon* mean *to pay court to* sometimes? Is there any relations between *spoon* and *love*? -- Wayne Wong > why does *spoon* mean *to pay court to* sometimes? > Is there any relations between *spoon* and *love*? Spooning used to mean very innocent necking, or courting. I couldn't tell you when the word first indicated a position of lovemaking. Other than that spoons and the position are related, I don't think the courting word is anything other than a nonsense word, not unlike "mooning" which used to mean sitting in a daydream. Can't tell you when it came to mean presenting the naked backside to complete innocents or to the unexpecting for shock purposes. But others have made studies of the mores of love customs and may provide better info for you. > why does *spoon* mean *to pay court to* sometimes? > Is there any relations between *spoon* and *love*? The dictionary entry at m-w.com gives a possible theory as to the origin of the verb. It's also a handy rhyme in songs. A famous old one: By the light of the silvery moon, I want to spoon, To my honey I'll croon love's tune, Honey moon keep a shining in June...  SignatureBest wishes -- Donna Richoux >The dictionary entry at m-w.com gives a possible theory as to the origin >of the verb. now i got it, thank you very much! -- Wayne Wong > OnSat, 10 Jan 2004 13:41:31 +0100 , trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) > wrote >> The dictionary entry at m-w.com gives a possible theory as to the >> origin of the verb. > > now i got it, thank you very much! And love-spoons are a part of at least one culture: http://www.lovespoons-wales.co.uk/ -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > > OnSat, 10 Jan 2004 13:41:31 +0100 , trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) > > wrote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > And love-spoons are a part of at least one culture: > http://www.lovespoons-wales.co.uk/ To my mind, the sexual use of spooning (a form of bundling) is a more likely source: http://www.sexualpositionsfree.com/spooning.html Gary > > And love-spoons are a part of at least one culture: > > http://www.lovespoons-wales.co.uk/ I wish I could believe this, but I have to say it sounds far-fetched. And awfully like an object invented to sell to the tourists. Does anyone have more connecting this "spoon" to the other one? > To my mind, the sexual use of spooning (a form of bundling) is a more > likely source: > > http://www.sexualpositionsfree.com/spooning.html Source of what? You think, at the turn of the century, people gathered round the piano and sang songs about sexual positions? Shine on, shine on harvest moon up in the sky I ain't had no lovin' since January, February, June, or July Snow time ain't no time to sit outdoors and spoon Shine on, shine on harvest moon for me 'n' my gal What have we got for early citations for this verb?... DAE (1938) does have the meaning "to lie spoon-fashion" from 1715 to 1887. The citations imply nestling together to save space on a bunk, or for warmth... Hmmm, nothing about courtship or affection. Except one meaning as a noun, that "the spoons" can mean "sentimental affection," 1846. Tantalizing, but not very conclusive. Is the OED any better? Maybe Tin Pan Alley needed a rhyme *and* a new euphemism, so they made it up. SignatureBest - Donna Richoux >>> And love-spoons are a part of at least one culture: >>> http://www.lovespoons-wales.co.uk/ > > I wish I could believe this, but I have to say it sounds far-fetched. > And awfully like an object invented to sell to the tourists. Does > anyone have more connecting this "spoon" to the other one? According to this ... http://www.hardcorecarvers.co.uk/lovespoons/lovespoons3.html ... there are such spoons dating back several hundred years. Which is not to say that, like most folk art, they haven't become tourist-milkers by now. OED has a cite << 1918 W. R. Butterfield in Connoisseur Aug. 191/1 At first,+*love-spoons did not differ greatly from the wooden spoons in ordinary use in the household. >> suggesting they are of sufficient antiquity that someone in 1918 could write a history of them. >> To my mind, the sexual use of spooning (a form of bundling) is a more >> likely source: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tantalizing, but not very conclusive. Is the OED any better? OED (verb) : << 4. a. intr. To lie close together, to fit into each other, in the manner of spoons. 1887 Harper's Mag. Apr. 781/2 Two persons in each bunk, the sleepers ‘spooning’ together, packed like sardines. 1894 Outing XXIV. 343/2 The precision with which we could ‘spoon’ that sad night was truly beautiful to behold. >> << II. 6. intr. a. To make love, esp. in a sentimental or silly fashion. colloq. 1831 Lady Granville Lett. (1894) II. 77 The billiard room, in which they spooned. 1864 Meredith Emilia xxxvi, You might have—pardon the slang—spooned, who knows? 1872 Lever Ld. Kilgobbin lxxix, So long as a man spoons, he can talk of his affection. 1898 Wollocombe Fr. Morn till Eve vii. 84 Many danced, while others spooned under the influence of the summer moonlight. >> << 7. trans. To court or pay addresses to (a person), esp. in a sentimental manner. 1877 Mrs. Forrester Mignon I. 252 It was pleasant to spoon her when there was nothing else to do. 1894 K. Grahame Pagan Papers 148 When a Fellow was spooning his sister once, they used to employ him to carry notes. >> OED (noun): << 8. a. to be spoons with, about, or on, to be sentimentally in love with (a girl). slang. c1859 J. S. Coyne Everybody's Friend i. i. 7 It was one of my nonsensical effusions, when I was spoons about you.+ Mrs. F. Spoons! Feath. Well, when I was dying in love with you, my dear. 1860 Slang Dict. 224 ‘When I was spoons with you,’ i.e., when young, and in our courting days before marriage. >> << b. pl. Without const.: Sentimental or silly fondness. Also applied to persons: Sweethearts. Rarely in sing., an instance of sentimental love-play; a fond lover. 1846 Spirit of Times 18 Apr. 92/2 The girls are beautiful, with a very liberal allowance of ‘the spoons’, as our friend Smith would say. 1868 E. Yates Rocks Ahead ii. ii, This time it's an awful case of spoons. 1882 H. C. Merivale Faucit of B. III. ii. xii. 42 They were old spoons too when they were young. 1888 Gunter Mr. Potter x. 127 The moment he saw Ethel it became a wonderful case of ‘spoons’ upon his part. c1921 D. H. Lawrence Mod. Lover (1934) 188 A young chap goes out on Sunday night for a bit of a spoon. >> OED says of 'bundle': << 5. intr. To sleep in one's clothes on the same bed or couch with (as was formerly customary with persons of opposite sexes, in Wales and New England). 1781 S. Peters Gen. Hist. Connecticut (Bartlett) It is thought but a piece of civility to ask [a lady] to bundle. 1809 W. Irving Knickerb. (Bartlett) Van Corlear stopped occasionally in the villages to+dance at country frolics, and bundle with the Yankee lasses.>> Which suggests that bundling was an activity limited to a small geographic area whereas spooning was widespread. There is also no indication I can find anywhere that 'bundling' implied sleeping spoon-fashion - merely that a couple shared a bed while fully dressed. If I'd been put in a bed with my love I'd have wanted to be face to face throughout. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply << [Wayne Wong] why does *spoon* mean *to pay court to* sometimes? Is there any relations between *spoon* and *love*? [end quote] >> << [Donna Richoux] The dictionary entry at m-w.com gives a possible theory as to the origin of the verb. It's also a handy rhyme in songs. A famous old one: By the light of the silvery moon, I want to spoon, To my honey I'll croon love's tune, Honey moon keep a shining in June... [end quote] >> I am wondering what that possible theory is; m-w.com does not respond to its look-it-up button. Fashions change. Spooning as a position in bed is probably the most common use now. And lovers standing up are usually face-to-face. I have the impression though, that in nights of yore, it was common for the man to stand behind the woman, and thus spoon, perhaps while they looked at the moon, and sweet nothings were whispered in ears. You can see some of that in old movies, perhaps it there also for camera convince, and we have to imagine the side view that would make the word-image clear. -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > << [Wayne Wong] > why does *spoon* mean *to pay court to* sometimes? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > and we have to imagine the side view that would > make the word-image clear. MWCD10 (responding now): Main Entry: 2spoon Function: verb Date: 1715 transitive senses : to take up and usually transfer in a spoon intransitive senses [perh. from the Welsh custom of an engaged man's presenting his fiancée with an elaborately carved wooden spoon] : to make love by caressing, kissing, and talking amorously : NECK SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > Fashions change. Spooning as a position in bed > is probably the most common use now. Speaking of being in bed, I thought up another Hobson's choice - you're lying in bed, under the duvet toasty warm, and then you suddenly have to go to the bathroom ... and the bathroom tiles are ice cold. tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com spake thus: > > Fashions change. Spooning as a position in bed > > is probably the most common use now. > > Speaking of being in bed, I thought up another Hobson's choice - you're > lying in bed, under the duvet toasty warm, and then you suddenly have to > go to the bathroom ... and the bathroom tiles are ice cold. Some type of slippers might be in order? SignatureDavid ===== |
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