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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2008I can't resist telling you this fine example of language evolution!
I have a neighbor who is sending his 7-year-old son to a Spanish language school. The boy is quite motivated to learn his father's language, and to send emails to his Tio Paco. He is also very interested in ninja stuff--costumes and actions. The other day, he came over to use my computer, and brought his 4-year-old brother along (hermanito is very interested in Zorro stuff). Amidst several wild kicks, the older volunteered to kick me in the canolis. I can't help laughing about this. Then, the younger one started to undo his overalls to show me his canolis. I had to stop him, and, rather than continue exploration of vocabulary, I offered to find them another cartoon on the TV, or they would have to go home. I figure it is up to their mom and dad to educate them in the physiology of oriental combat, Mexican biology and Italian edibles. Pat wrote on Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:11:03 GMT: PD> The boy is quite motivated to learn his father's language, PD> and to send emails to his Tio Paco. He is also very PD> interested in ninja stuff--costumes and actions. My nephew speaks Spanish well and his wife is Mexican and they were bringing up their 4-yr old bilingually. Just recently, he has given every indication of still understanding Spanish but refuses to speak it. This is a very early example of this sort of rebellion: a friend from the Phillipines had the same thing happen with Tagalog but his kids were early teens. In the latter family, it is still the case 20 years later. James Silverton Potomac, Maryland E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not On Jan 24, 11:38 am, "James Silverton" ... > My nephew speaks Spanish well and his wife is Mexican and they > were bringing up their 4-yr old bilingually. Just recently, he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > happen with Tagalog but his kids were early teens. In the latter > family, it is still the case 20 years later. No surprise there. It's the general rule: Peer pressure motivates pretty much all kids to stick to the dominant language (or in some countries the prestige language if different from the dominant language) when they are at school age, in the absence of coercion or sufficient inducement at home. Gets worse with teenagers. Effective coercion: Completely ignoring all communication in the dominant language, no matter what. > Pat wrote: >> The boy is quite motivated to learn his father's language, >> and to send emails to his Tio Paco. He is also very [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > happen with Tagalog but his kids were early teens. In the latter > family, it is still the case 20 years later. I notice the same trend in the families of both of my step-sons. The step-sons and their wives are Filipino, but their children (ages four and up) have stopped talking Tagalog, although they still understand most of it. Thinking back on my own earlier days in the USA, I stopped speaking Latvian during my military service, around the age of 25. I still understand it, but talking it is a bit of a chore -- it's hard to think of all the proper words at a moment's notice. My parents never talked to me in English, so, much to their chagrin, even before I went in the Army, we had bi-lingual conversations. My German, once fluent, as it was, is gone. Well, almost.  SignatureSkitt (AmE) > I have a neighbor who is sending his 7-year-old son to a Spanish > language school. ... > Amidst several wild kicks, the older volunteered to kick me in the > canolis. I can't help laughing about this. Then, the younger one > started to undo his overalls to show me his canolis. I had to > of oriental combat, Mexican biology and Italian edibles. Not necessarily an edible: Cannolo is a perfectly legitimate (both etymologically and as to use) noun for penis. Not necessarily tied to anything Spanish, either. Especially if in the "canoli" form and for the wrong organ it suggests an Angloamerican origin. > > I have a neighbor who is sending his 7-year-old son to a Spanish > >language school. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > anything Spanish, either. Especially if in the "canoli" form and for > the wrong organ it suggests an Angloamerican origin. Two Google hits for 'kick "in the canolies"' and one with the spelling "cannolies", all of which seem to have the relevant meaning. The "cannolies" one is in a stereotyped Italian-American context ("Ay, Vinny"--I'll bet the first word is a non-dasypneumatic "hey"). Probably the little monsters heard it somewhere. -- Jerry Friedman >> > I have a neighbor who is sending his 7-year-old son to a Spanish >> >language school. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Vinny"--I'll bet the first word is a non-dasypneumatic "hey"). > Probably the little monsters heard it somewhere. Most edifying. I certainly thought that, by the shape, the wrong anatomical feature was being referred to, but I had never heard it as a Spanish term. Well, I had to sit with the 4-year-old in his house today, and I asked him where he learned the "canolis"(He started it, offering to punch me in mine). Apparently it wasn't the older brother who introduced the word into the house. Rafa-rafafa said he heard it from the raccoon in Dr. Dolittle. I don't know if the video tape of Dr. Dolittle is in Spanish or English. But. . .what a raccoon! Er...maroon! > <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > him where he learned the "canolis"(He started it, offering to punch me > in mine). How many offers will it take till he figures out that people are unlikely to accept? > Apparently it wasn't the older brother who introduced the > word into the house. Rafa-rafafa said he heard it from the raccoon in > Dr. Dolittle. Darn it! I was thinking of saying that it sounded like the kind of language on TV shows for slightly older kids. > I don't know if the video tape of Dr. Dolittle is in > Spanish or English. But. . .what a raccoon! Er...maroon! "What a maroon!" Good God, I haven't heard that since about 1974. I think the kid who said that was also the one who called me "Russian" because I ate cold cereal dry. I admit it's weird, but Russian? -- Jerry Friedman > because I ate cold cereal dry. I admit it's weird, but Russian? Because you were in too much of a hurry to bother pouring the milk! ¬R "jerry_friedman wrote: >> jerry_friedman wrote: >> > azyth wrote: >> >> Not necessarily an edible: Cannolo is a perfectly legitimate (both >> >> etymologically and as to use) noun for penis. Not necessarily tied [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> anatomical feature was being referred to, but I had never heard it as >> a Spanish term. >> Apparently it wasn't the older brother who introduced the >> word into the house. Rafa-rafafa said he heard it from the raccoon >> in Dr. Dolittle. > > Darn it! I was thinking of saying that it sounded like the kind of > language on TV shows for slightly older kids. I'll bet it was the 1998 Eddie Murphy movie. Paul Ruebens voices a raccoon in it, and several of the reviews on IMDb mention that it's crude and "... riddled with butt jokes and lame toilet humor". The DVD is subtitled in Spanish. > "jerry_friedman wrote: >>> jerry_friedman wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > in > Spanish. Thanks. I think it must be that one. They have a few other kid vids in Spanish. >> <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >think the kid who said that was also the one who called me "Russian" >because I ate cold cereal dry. I admit it's weird, but Russian? Perhaps he thought you spent all day queueing up in the line for no milk. SignatureWCdnE On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:29:02 -0800 (PST), jerry_friedman@yahoo.com posted: > "What a maroon!" Good God, I haven't heard that since about 1974. I > think the kid who said that was also the one who called me "Russian" > because I ate cold cereal dry. I admit it's weird, but Russian? On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood Chewing his beard for lack of food He said "it's tough, this stuff, to eat But a darn sight better than Shredded Wheat". > On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood > Chewing his beard for lack of food > He said "it's tough, this stuff, to eat > But a darn sight better than Shredded Wheat". In Turkey once I came across a cafe menu that had clearly been translated for the owner by a passing tourist with a sense of humour. Against "baklava", which is a delicious filo-pastry confection saturated with honey and sprinkled with pistachio, appeared the English version: "Shredded wheat". I also recall many years ago on the London to Edinburgh railway line an enormous sign on a factory opposite one of the stations one passed through: "Welwyn Garden City -- Home of Shredded Wheat"' How desperate would a town have to be to make that its main claim to fame? I've no idea if it's still there. >Nick wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >would a town have to be to make that its main claim to fame? I've no >idea if it's still there. It wasn't just Shredded Wheat, you know. It was "Welgar" Shredded Wheat. No prizes for making the connection. The only current British trademark registration of WELGAR dates from October 1941 and now belongs to Société des Produits Nestlé S.A. A previous owner was Nabisco. I can guess where -bis- and -co come from, but for the moment the source of Na- escapes me. National Biscuit Company? How dull, if so. SignaturePaul Paul Wolff filted: >>In Turkey once I came across a cafe menu that had clearly been >>translated for the owner by a passing tourist with a sense of humour. >>Against "baklava", which is a delicious filo-pastry confection >>saturated with honey and sprinkled with pistachio, appeared the English >>version: "Shredded wheat". Caterer acquaintance of mine once did up a southern-style breakfast buffet...nobody seemed interested in trying the hominy grits, and eventually it was discovered that whenever anyone asked what it was, one of the servers was telling people it was "cornmeal mush".... >>I also recall many years ago on the London to Edinburgh railway line >>an enormous sign on a factory opposite one of the stations one passed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It wasn't just Shredded Wheat, you know. It was "Welgar" Shredded >Wheat. No prizes for making the connection. Niagara Falls, New York is the home of the *real* Shredded Wheat.... >The only current British trademark registration of WELGAR dates from >October 1941 and now belongs to Société des Produits Nestlé S.A. A >previous owner was Nabisco. I can guess where -bis- and -co come from, >but for the moment the source of Na- escapes me. National Biscuit >Company? How dull, if so. The same company first made its mark in the world with a product called "Uneeda Biscuit"....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > A previous owner was Nabisco. I can guess where -bis- and -co come from, > but for the moment the source of Na- escapes me. National Biscuit > Company? How dull, if so. Dull, but true. >> On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood >> Chewing his beard for lack of food [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with honey and sprinkled with pistachio, appeared the English version: > "Shredded wheat". I wouldn't have mentioned this if I hadn't recently read in an American novel a character describing baklava as shredded wheat: there is a similar-tasting, middle eastern pastry that vaguely looks like shredded wheat - can't remember its name, but it's not baklava - however, I can't help wondering whether some people confuse the two. SignatureRob Bannister > > In Turkey once I came across a cafe menu that had clearly been > > translated for the owner by a passing tourist with a sense of humour. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wheat - can't remember its name, but it's not baklava - however, I can't > help wondering whether some people confuse the two. Searching on <pastry "shredded wheat"> indicates that it is Kadaifi or Kataïfi. Picture and recipe here: http://greekfood.about.com/od/dessertspastriessweets/r/kataifi.htm "Baklava," of course, is a knitted ski mask. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >>>In Turkey once I came across a cafe menu that had clearly been >>>translated for the owner by a passing tourist with a sense of humour. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > "Baklava," of course, is a knitted ski mask. Thanks for finding the word. I have heard people asking for balaclava. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >> "Baklava," of course, is a knitted ski mask. > >Thanks for finding the word. I have heard people asking for balaclava. Oh, crimea river!...r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >>>>In Turkey once I came across a cafe menu that had clearly been >>>>translated for the owner by a passing tourist with a sense of humour. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Thanks for finding the word. I have heard people asking for balaclava. They are offered in the same establishments and on the same menu as baklava (and are both ridiculously sweet) so it is reasonable to think that kataifi is a variant. Is "baklava" a volcano inhaling? SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >Robert Bannister <robban1@bigpond.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Kadaifi or Kataïfi. Picture and recipe here: >http://greekfood.about.com/od/dessertspastriessweets/r/kataifi.htm And how, exactly, does this map to the president-for-life of Libya? There just has to be a connection. >"Baklava," of course, is a knitted ski mask. Winter's ports are not for me. SignaturePaul >> On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood >> Chewing his beard for lack of food [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >with honey and sprinkled with pistachio, appeared the English version: >"Shredded wheat". I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava "delicious". Might as well just eat the contents of a sugar bowl. >I also recall many years ago on the London to Edinburgh railway line an >enormous sign on a factory opposite one of the stations one passed >through: "Welwyn Garden City -- Home of Shredded Wheat"' How desperate >would a town have to be to make that its main claim to fame? I've no >idea if it's still there. SignatureWCdnE > >> On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood > >> Chewing his beard for lack of food [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava > "delicious". Might as well just eat the contents of a sugar bowl. You say that like it's a bad thing. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> >> On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood >> >> Chewing his beard for lack of food [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >You say that like it's a bad thing. Heh! Yes, it's a bad thing. I like some flavour with my sugar. SignatureWCdnE > Amethyst Deceiver posted: >> rat@atatatat.com says... >>> Fred Springer posted: >>>>> On Nevsky Bridge the Russian stood >>>>> Chewing his beard for lack of food [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Heh! Yes, it's a bad thing. I like some flavour with my sugar. I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the time. Sweet. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >> Amethyst Deceiver posted: >>> rat@atatatat.com says... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the spoonful. Well, >not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the time. Sweet. I can recall eating straight sugar only a few times, but on a peanut butter sandwich, often. SignatureWCdnE >> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the >> time. Sweet. > > I can recall eating straight sugar only a few times, but on a peanut > butter sandwich, often. As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These days that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, but back then it was considered to be normal. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >>> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, >but back then it was considered to be normal. I did that as well, back when I ate cereal. Why would it be considered shocking? SignatureWCdnE Oleg Lego filted: >>As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These days >>that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Why would it be considered shocking? Because sugar is white, and therefore deadly poison....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >Oleg Lego filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Because sugar is white, and therefore deadly poison....r Ahh. Well, it is somewhat dangerous to some folks, right up there with a few other white things, like bread and rice and spuds. Of course, it's not much different to those folks than brown things like bread and rice, or at least one yellow thing, like corn. Of course, a lot of folks to whom it is not dangerous, think they are doing their bodies a lot of good by eating brown sugar or whole grain brown rice, or whole wheat or rye bread. Those folks are delusional. SignatureWCdnE >> As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These >> days that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why would it be considered shocking? Perhaps it varies by country. Dentists have been campaigning against refined sugar, and a few other sweet things, on the grounds that children are getting tooth decay relatively early in their lives. To make matters worse, the children most affected are those from low-income families - that's where you'll find the most unhealthy diets - and they are the ones least able to afford good dental repairs. More critically, though, Australians are becoming more aware that we have a national obesity crisis, and in particular that we have many obese children. Obesity has multiple causes, but in many cases it can be related to bad habits formed in childhood. It does appear that refined sugar is addictive, and that a "sweet tooth" learnt in childhood can cause difficult-to-control food cravings later in life. Thus, giving children excess sugar is seen almost as a form of child abuse. Several people in this thread have mentioned that many breakfast foods are pre-sweetened. True, but I have observed that well-educated people ignore the "junk food" end of the cereal aisle; I believe that most of it is sold to those who haven't had a good enough education to understand the health warnings. We never touched it in my families. My own preferred cereal, until recently, was muesli, and only the brand that was lowest in total sugars. Now that I've become more concerned about reducing my girth, I've given up cereals and have nothing but yoghurt and coffee for breakfast. Today I finally bought bathroom scales, and was shocked to discover that my weight isn't much less than it was a year ago. An increased emphasis on a better diet and more exercise has, it appears, been cancelled by the occasional binge on sweet things or alcohol. In my own case those cravings, and the consequent weight rise, didn't start until relatively late in life, and can probably be traced to marital breakdown rather than childhood training, but the basic fact remains: once you're hooked on high-energy foods, it can be very difficult to shake the habit. Australia doesn't yet have the US problem of near-universal obesity and falling life expectancies; but we're only about 20 years behind, and catching up, and we're becoming painfully aware of that. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. Peter Moylan sez: > Australia doesn't yet have the US problem of near-universal obesity and > falling life expectancies; but we're only about 20 years behind, and > catching up, and we're becoming painfully aware of that. It lends weight to the Kojak Conjecture[TM]. SignatureRichard Fontana > Today I finally bought bathroom scales, and was shocked to discover that > my weight isn't much less than it was a year ago. An increased emphasis [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > remains: once you're hooked on high-energy foods, it can be very > difficult to shake the habit. Don't be too harsh on yourself. A better diet is good, and more exercise is wonderful. And more exercise helps to convert fat to muscle, and muscle weighs more than fat. You may not have lost much weight, but I bet you're in better shape than you were a year ago. If it's your girth you're concerned about, use a tape measure. If your waistline is diminishing you're winning. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Don't be too harsh on yourself. A better diet is good, and more exercise > is wonderful. And more exercise helps to convert fat to muscle, and > muscle weighs more than fat. You may not have lost much weight, but I > bet you're in better shape than you were a year ago. If it's your girth > you're concerned about, use a tape measure. If your waistline is > diminishing you're winning. Hmm. On doctor's orders, I have been attending a gym for the last 8 months. According to the people who sell me clothes and their tape measures, I have lost 12 cm round the waist. However, it doesn't show. As far as I can see, I've still got a beer gut and am likely to retain it. However, you're right about weight: I've weighed about the same since I was 16 - a shocking 80 kg, which has never varied by more than 5 kg during all that time whether I was fit or not. SignatureRob Bannister > Perhaps it varies by country. Dentists have been campaigning against > refined sugar, and a few other sweet things, on the grounds that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > children. Obesity has multiple causes, but in many cases it can be > related to bad habits formed in childhood. I presume you've heard the latest science research done, I think, at a NSW university, which demonstrates that, in mice at least, fat and sugar relieve stress. This is presumably the origin of the phrase "comfort food". SignatureRob Bannister >> Skitt posted: >>> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >>> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the >>> time. Sweet. >> >> I can recall eating straight sugar only a few times, but on a peanut >> butter sandwich, often. Well, I've eaten the occasional sugar sandwich in my day. Just butter and sugar. > As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These days > that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, > but back then it was considered to be normal. Oh, gosh -- I used to always put sugar on my breakfast cereal, unless the cereal was already of the sugared (frosted) kind. The thing is, though, that I haven't eaten breakfast cereal in yonks. It's, more or less, kids' stuff. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >>> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >>> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, >but back then it was considered to be normal. Now the sugar is already pre-sprinkled (for most values of breakfast cereal). SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > >> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the > >> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, > but back then it was considered to be normal. Still normal here. YoungBloke had Rice Krispies with a sprinkle of sugar on only this morning. I'd rather he had that than sugar-coated crispies - this way I can control the amount of sugar. And RKs on their own are dull. Not as cardboardy as the gluten-free cornflakes we bought last year though. Even OldBloke is having trouble getting through them. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > Peter Moylan says: >> > I can recall eating straight sugar only a few times, but on a peanut >> > butter sandwich, often. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > dull. Not as cardboardy as the gluten-free cornflakes we bought last > year though. Even OldBloke is having trouble getting through them. WIWAL, my mother allowed us to add one spoonful of sugar to un-presweetened cereal, Rice Crispies, Special K, plain Corn Flakes, Cheerios and that sort. If it was a sugared (Capt'n Crunch, Honeycomb) or sugar-frosted cereal (Frosted Flakes, Corn Pops) or if it had marshmallow bits (Alpha- Bits, Lucky Charms) or was chocolate (Cocoa Crisps) the adding of sugar was forbidden. Oatmeal got raisins while it was cooking and a sprinkle of brown sugar when served. > > Peter Moylan says: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > forbidden. Oatmeal got raisins while it was cooking and a sprinkle of brown > sugar when served. Were our mothers related? It was the same for me, and is mostly the same for YB. He either has Rice Krispies with one of his handfuls of rainbow drops added (those coloured, sugar-coated crispies), or RKs with half a tsp of sugar. He is aware that some breakfast cereal comes already sweet because Mum gets that. I don't, though! SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary Amethyst Deceiver sez: > YoungBloke had Rice Krispies with a sprinkle of sugar > on only this morning. I'd rather he had that than sugar-coated crispies > - this way I can control the amount of sugar. And RKs on their own are > dull. Incidentally, are Rice Krispy Treats (aka Rice Krispies Treats) known in th'UK? Google suggests probably not. SignatureRichard Fontana [...] >> As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These >> days that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > we bought last year though. Even OldBloke is having trouble getting > through them. Interesting, the individual variation. I find even the cheapest and simplest breakfast cereals, such as Rice Krispies or Tesco's Value bran flakes, and even raw rolled oats, quite sweet enough. But I would have brown sugar or black treacle on porridge made with the same rolled oats. I think it's the milk as much as the cereal itself. I don't think we ever let the children get the idea that sugar was in any way associated with cereal. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >>> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, >but back then it was considered to be normal. Please don't mention breakfast cereals. I used to avoid them with ease. Recently my wife changed from her usual rats' droppings in sawdust to a Lidl cereal which consists of oats with pecan nuts soaked in maple syrup. The stuff is just so bloody wicked it ought to be illegal. Thankfully our nearest Lidl shop is 17 miles away in Farnham so we do go there too often. SignatureJames Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk > As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These days > that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, > but back then it was considered to be normal. Sprinkle? I used to dump sugar on my Cheerios. Take that, non-sweetened cereal! Who's sweet now, huh? SignatureSML >> As a child I used to sprinkle sugar on my breakfast cereal. These days >> that would be considered shocking, at least in the circles I move in, >> but back then it was considered to be normal. > >Sprinkle? I used to dump sugar on my Cheerios. Take that, non-sweetened >cereal! Who's sweet now, huh? Sugar was rationed in Britain right up to 1953, so having anything sweetened was a rarity. I remember unsweetened cornflakes and rice crispies for breakfast. Porrage made with milk, and with a teaspoonful of golden syrup, was a luxury. We each had half a teaspoonful of sugar in tea: the orange pekoe tips that my mother bought, chosen because saving coupons on the packets would get her a free packet for ten coupons, was undrinkable without it. She used to use most of the ration for baking. SignatureRobin Bignall (BrE) Herts, England > I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the spoonful. > Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the time. Sweet. We used to badger mum to buy cube sugar: somehow, it felt less evil eating sugar cubes than spoonfuls of granulated. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the spoonful. >> Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the time. Sweet. > >We used to badger mum to buy cube sugar: somehow, it felt less evil >eating sugar cubes than spoonfuls of granulated. You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no idea how it's meant to be used....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no idea how it's > meant to be used....r You build mountains with it. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > Robert Bannister filted: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no idea how it's > meant to be used....r Must. Resist. Straight. Line. -- Jerry Friedman jerry_friedman@yahoo.com filted: >>You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no idea how it's >> meant to be used....r > >Must. Resist. Straight. Line. Okay, I'll ratchet back the provocation a bit.... How *do* the Chinese typically use the rock candy I find in these stores?...do they drop it into hot beverages to sweeten them?...do they pop a lump into the mouth and suck on it until it dissolves?...I suppose we can rule out the possibility that they mill it into granules for cooking.... I should probably point out here that by "rock candy" I mean the translucent white or (somewhat offputting) yellow crystals of pure cane sugar, not George Formby's little stick of Blackpool rock....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? [...] > How *do* the Chinese typically use the rock candy I find in these > stores?...do they drop it into hot beverages to sweeten them?...do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > translucent white or (somewhat offputting) yellow crystals of pure > cane sugar, not George Formby's little stick of Blackpool rock....r Known in old Brit cookery books as "sugar candy". I deduce from remarks in Beeton that people used to trust the purity of sugar in direct proportion to the size of the crystals or chunks. From other recipe books I've seen, I think the survival of this sugar candy is probably a matter of habit, not of practicality. Techniques for using the different grades of sugar must be a bit different, though, so it's understandable that some cooks may have preferred to stick with what they're used to. ObSugarLoaf. Many years ago, I actually saw some sugar loaves on display in some British shop: they were irregular tall cones, so it was easy to see how the various Sugarloaf Mountains and hats got their names. I think the shop had them more as curiosities than as regular stock lines. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > ObSugarLoaf. Many years ago, I actually saw some sugar loaves on > display in some British shop: they were irregular tall cones, so it > was easy to see how the various Sugarloaf Mountains and hats got > their names. I think the shop had them more as curiosities than as > regular stock lines. Ah, that's interesting! The local Mount Sugarloaf is visible from my front yard, and I've often reflected on the fact that from this viewpoint it doesn't look like a sugar cube at all. I've always assumed that you'd have to approach from a different direction to appreciate the name; but it's never worked from any direction I've tried. Mind you, it doesn't look much like a cone, either. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. [stomach full, calorie empty] >> You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no >> idea how it's meant to be used....r > > Must. Resist. Straight. Line. Be strong. My _Encyclopedia of Chinese Food and Cooking_ (Chang and Kutscher, 1970) says that SUGAR, ROCK, or /bing tang/ , is used as a "flavoring agent; glaze; staple; in teas; blends into sauces." Another cookbook specifically mentions glazing chicken. Seems to me that, for that last, it would at least have to be crushed. >Robert Bannister filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >You can still find rock candy in Chinese supermarkets...I have no idea how it's >meant to be used....r Lumps of palm sugar are dissolved with fish sauce, lime juice, etc for dipping sauces. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > > Heh! Yes, it's a bad thing. I like some flavour with my sugar. > > I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the spoonful. Well, > not often, but a few times. It tasted good at the time. Sweet. A spoonful of sugar cured hiccups, of course. And it does have a flavor. White sugar, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup -- they each have their own taste, beyond sweet. SignatureSML Sara Lorimer filted: >A spoonful of sugar cured hiccups, of course. And it does have a flavor. >White sugar, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup -- they each have their own >taste, beyond sweet. Nice garden path in those first five words, Sara....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >> > Heh! Yes, it's a bad thing. I like some flavour with my sugar. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >White sugar, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup -- they each have their own >taste, beyond sweet. White sugar, to me, consists only os "sweetness", which I consider to be a taste, yes, but an incomplete taste; without any aroma, which I consider to be part of anything I call "having flavour". Brown sugar, and honey are, indeed flavourful, and I have been known to enjoy honey on its own. Maple syrup is flavourful to great degree. Unfortunately, I consider it to be one of the most vile flavours of any edible food product. SignatureWCdnE > White sugar, to me, consists only os "sweetness", which I consider to > be a taste, yes, but an incomplete taste; without any aroma, which I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Unfortunately, I consider it to be one of the most vile flavours of > any edible food product. Surely a problem for an inhabitant of Canada. And are there any inedible food products? SignatureDavid >> White sugar, to me, consists only os "sweetness", which I consider to >> be a taste, yes, but an incomplete taste; without any aroma, which I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Surely a problem for an inhabitant of Canada. And are there any >inedible food products? No, but I was in a repetitive redundancy mood. SignatureWCdnE >>> Heh! Yes, it's a bad thing. I like some flavour with my sugar. >> I recall some days in my childhood when I ate sugar by the >> spoonful. Well, not often, but a few times. It tasted good at >> the time. Sweet. > A spoonful of sugar cured hiccups, of course. And it does have a > flavor. White sugar, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup -- they each > have their own taste, beyond sweet. Yes, as a sip of even white syrup will confirm. Another very useful effect of sugar is that it counteracts the hotness of peppers. If you unexpectedly get something that is too picante, taking a spoonful of dry sugar and then rinsing with cold water and spitting will restore peace to your mouthparts, if not to the heart of the maitre d'. > I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava > "delicious". Might as well just eat the contents of a sugar bowl. De gustibus non est disputandum, as we say in t'West Riding. ... > I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava > "delicious". Might as well just eat the contents of a sugar bowl. Which means that you never were connected to the real thing (which is not even sweetened, made by the old-locals in a very limited area in and around Constantinoiple and Salonicca). All the rest is just for sweet-craving barbarians. >... >> I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and around Constantinoiple and Salonicca). All the rest is just for >sweet-craving barbarians. I'd love to try some of "the real thing", if it actually has a taste other than "sweet". SignatureWCdnE mb ... > >Which means that you never were connected to the real thing (which is > >not even sweetened, ... > I'd love to try some of "the real thing", if it actually has a taste > other than "sweet". You didn't read. >mb >... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >You didn't read. I did. You did not realize that my answer was a way of saying "If what you say is true". SignatureWCdnE ... > I did. You did not realize that my answer was a way of saying "If what > you say is true". Apologies; clutch is off due to high mileage. > I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone seriously calling baklava > "delicious". Might as well just eat the contents of a sugar bowl. Pre'zackly. Yumyum. S in B right, that diet can start -- tomorrow.... On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: ... > Two Google hits for 'kick "in the canolies"' and one with the spelling > "cannolies", all of which seem to have the relevant meaning. The > "cannolies" one is in a stereotyped Italian-American context ("Ay, > Vinny"--I'll bet the first word is a non-dasypneumatic "hey"). > Probably the little monsters heard it somewhere. Thank you kindly for the nonchalant use of dasypneumatic. Said monsters are not likely to have heard that word; as for "can[n]olies" hearing it in any Italian-speaking milieu is excluded given the semantic specialization. I think you are right, it's coming direct from some Eastern seabord pizzeria. > On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" > <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: > ... [...] >> ("Ay, Vinny"--I'll bet the first word is a non-dasypneumatic >> "hey"). Probably the little monsters heard it somewhere. > > Thank you kindly for the nonchalant use of dasypneumatic. [...] You could even say he did it smoothly. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com On Jan 25, 10:32 am, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" > > <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > ... > [...] > >> ("Ay, Vinny"--I'll bet the first word is a non-dasypneumatic > >> "hey"). ... > > Thank you kindly for the nonchalant use of dasypneumatic. [...] I'm glad if the pleasure wasn't all mine. > You could even say he did it smoothly. Speaking of which, maybe instead of "non-dasypneumatic" I should have just said [*wikips again*] "psilopneumatic". -- Jerry Friedman On Jan 26, 9:47 am, "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: ... > Speaking of which, maybe instead of "non-dasypneumatic" I should have > just said [*wikips again*] "psilopneumatic". That may have been a tad too much in our age, where all fine spirits are either forbidden or strictly regulated. > Amidst several wild kicks, the older volunteered to kick me in the > canolis. I'd have to guess their dad used that with them as a sound-alike euphemism for the usual Spanish slang word. ¬R |
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