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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004insurance auction
Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private seller, dealership, insurance auction or online auction" in the US. MTIA Hanna > Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm > translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private > seller, dealership, insurance auction or online auction" in the US. In this particular case, it is an auction, held by an insurance company, to peddle the damaged vehicles they have acquired by paying off claims for their repair, when the repair costs exceeded the value of the vehicle. In other contexts, the term is used in the marketing of insurance policies.  SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > In this particular case, it is an auction, held by an insurance company, to > peddle the damaged vehicles they have acquired by paying off claims for > their repair, when the repair costs exceeded the value of the vehicle. I suspected something of that nature. Thanks a lot for all the explanations. Hanna SignatureCalvin: Verbing weirds language. Hobbes: Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. >Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm >translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private >seller, dealership, insurance auction or online auction" in the US. When a US insurance company "totals" a vehicle, they take it and auction it off. To "total" a vehicle means that the insurance company says the damage is greater than the value of the vehicle and they will not pay to have the car repaired. The pay the amount that they say the vehicle is worth and take the vehicle. The wrecked vehicle is then sold at a salvage auction. A vehicle purchased at a salvage auction is titled as a salvage vehicle and cannot be licensed for normal driving use unless repairs are made and the vehicle is inspected and passed. One of the largest salvage auction firms is Copart. See: http://www.copart.com/cgi-bin/profile.dtw/fetch > Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm > translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private > seller, dealership, insurance auction or online auction" in the US. Sometimes an automobile is considered "totaled" (totally destroyed), for insurance purposes, and is replaced with a money payment (whatever the terms of the policy might be), when, in fact the insurance company can recoup some value from the car in a resale. In other cases, after a car has been stolen, and the owner reimbursed, the insurance company takes possession of the recovered car, and resells it. After a very great hurricane a few years ago damaged much city property (I think in N. Carolina), many new cars from car dealers were damaged by flooding and other storm-related damage. I believe that many state consumer protection organizations warned prospective buyers of used cars that they should be sure to examine the shipping history of these "new" cars, sometimes sold as "fleet" or "executive" cars, to be sure that they understood that "internal" damage might have occurred. The dealers got their insurance money, and the insurance companies had to authorize the resale of these cars. Most of them are done in an auction environment. >> Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm >> translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >authorize the resale of these cars. Most of them are done in an auction >environment. A "totaled" vehicle has to be so noted on the vehicle's title in most - but not all - states. However, one of the shady practices in the automobile industry is for a wholesaler to purchase a totaled vehicle, "re-sell" it to a firm in a state that doesn't require this, and then buy it back from that firm and get a clear title. The transactions are all by mail. There's a company called Carfax that will (for a fee) provide a prospective buyer with a history of the vehicle including all re-title activities. Flood damaged cars are the most common problems. > >> Can someone please explain to me what an insurance auction is? I'm > >> translating a text which mentions purchasing a vehicle from "a private [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > including all re-title activities. Flood damaged cars are the most > common problems. I know some people who have a good friendship with their insurance agents. A few years ago, my aunt's 12 year-old car had extensive hail damage. The agent, knowing the cost of repairing the many dents (no scratches) would far exceed the resale cost of the car, proclaimed the car 'totaled', and paid out $1000. My aunt kept the very drivable car, and banked the $1000, rather than have it towed to a junk yard. (I wouldn't have gotten a cent on my 11 year old car. . . only 6 hail dents, and no paint scratches.) [...] > I know some people who have a good friendship with their insurance agents. > A few years ago, my aunt's 12 year-old car had extensive hail damage. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than have it towed to a junk yard. (I wouldn't have gotten a cent on my 11 > year old car. . . only 6 hail dents, and no paint scratches.) Nice work, aunt! The common British expression for "totalled" (sorry, 'totaled'!) is "a write-off". Mike. > [...] > > I know some people who have a good friendship with their insurance agents. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Nice work, aunt! The common British expression for "totalled" (sorry, > 'totaled'!) is "a write-off". Well, I think we would also use that expression in the same situation, although in my accounting training it has more to do with depreciation allowances. Pat Durkin filted: >> Nice work, aunt! The common British expression for "totalled" (sorry, >> 'totaled'!) is "a write-off". > >Well, I think we would also use that expression in the same situation, >although in my accounting training it has more to do with depreciation >allowances. I often hear of people "totaling" a car when in fact they simply mean "damaged it so thoroughly that nothing could be salvaged"..."write off" is not unknown here in the US, but it's something the insurance adjuster does, not the person driving, which makes the following excerpt from a Reuters story this morning read oddly: Police said the woman reversed sharply out of her spot on the upper level of a multi-story parking in the southwestern town of Kirchen, writing off a parked Nissan and damaging a Mitsubishi next to it, police said. ...then again, maybe it's just the "Police said x, police said" construction that's bothering me....r >Pat Durkin filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I often hear of people "totaling" a car when in fact they simply mean "damaged >it so thoroughly that nothing could be salvaged". But it doesn't mean that at all. It means that repairing the damages to the car would cost more than the car's market value. I drive a 1990 Toyota Camry with 190,000 miles on it. I could be in an accident where the damages would put it over the "totaled" level and continue to drive the car. I might be driving a car with some dented up bodywork, but it would be safely drivable. >> Pat Durkin filted: >>>> Nice work, aunt! The common British expression for "totalled" >>>> (sorry, 'totaled'!) is "a write-off". [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to drive the car. I might be driving a car with some dented up > bodywork, but it would be safely drivable. I lost my 1986.5 Toyota Supra in early 2000 because someone hit me in the rear and severely damaged the hatch lid and the surrounding body (what hit me was a truck with a high bumper). I drove the car for several weeks, until the insurance company paid me off and took it. I loved that car, although it had 163,000 miles on it, all of them put there by me. SignatureSkitt It's like Jesus said -- give a man a fish, and he'll know where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you've destroyed your marketbase. >>> I often hear of people "totaling" a car when in fact they simply >>> mean "damaged it so thoroughly that nothing could be salvaged". That's pretty much what the RHUD says: "Slang. to wreck or demolish completely: 'He totaled his new car in the accident.'" But MWCD-11 has "to make a total wreck of : DEMOLISH; specifically : to damage so badly that the cost of repairs exceeds the market value of the vehicle *totaled the car*" >> But it doesn't mean that at all. It means that repairing the >> damages to the car would cost more than the car's market value. That might be the insurance adjuster's sense, but in common usage I think that "severely damage" is more commonly meant. >> I drive a 1990 Toyota Camry with 190,000 miles on it. I could be >> in an accident where the damages would put it over the "totaled" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > took it. I loved that car, although it had 163,000 miles on it, > all of them put there by me. I've read that the introduction of air bags has caused a lot of moderately-damaged cars to be considered "totalled" by insurers. Air bags are so expensive to replace that any accident that sets them off will total a car that isn't fairly new, even if it's otherwise perfectly useable. That was some years ago, though; maybe they're cheaper now. And maybe I'll win the lottery this week. SignatureRay Heindl (remove the Xs to reply) >>>> I often hear of people "totaling" a car when in fact they simply >>>> mean "damaged it so thoroughly that nothing could be salvaged". [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >That might be the insurance adjuster's sense, but in common usage I >think that "severely damage" is more commonly meant. Not to pick the nit too closely, but I'd think the common usage is directly related to the insurance usage. When would you ever use "totaled" if not referring to the insurance application of the word? "My car was severely damaged" would be a non-insurance-related observation, but "My car was totaled" would be the common usage after talking to the adjustor. If no insurance was involved, the word "totaled" would probably not be used. Tony Cooper filted: >Not to pick the nit too closely, but I'd think the common usage is >directly related to the insurance usage. When would you ever use [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >talking to the adjustor. If no insurance was involved, the word >"totaled" would probably not be used. Actual conversation, from memory, circa 1977: Me: "Are we going to LS Mesa this week?" Friend: "We can't. I totalled the car." No passive voice here, whatever else I may have paraphrased...he very definitely said that *he* totalled the car, with the further implication that it could no longer be used as a means of transportation....r > Not to pick the nit too closely, but I'd think the common usage is > directly related to the insurance usage. When would you ever use [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > talking to the adjustor. If no insurance was involved, the word > "totaled" would probably not be used. Tony, it is also used to mean "to completely wreck" even when the discussion has nothing to do with insurance. The *origin* would have been the insurance usage, but the actual *meaning* has shifted. Some examples from the Web: He totalled his car last night but thankfully no one was seriously hurt I get a call from him around 10:30am saying we can't look at apartments cause he totalled his car on the way home. He has no vehicle and hasn't been driving since he totalled his car (wasn't hurt, just realized he shouldn't be driving) On the way to Vermont from Texas, he totalled his car and had to stop for a few days Those people are not talking about what a claims adjuster told them and whether they were covered. Maybe they were covered by insurance and maybe they weren't, but it wasn't under discussion. They were talking about the car being severely damaged. SignatureBrr, all those crashes -- Donna Richoux > > Not to pick the nit too closely, but I'd think the common usage is > > directly related to the insurance usage. When would you ever use [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > been the insurance usage, but the actual *meaning* has shifted. Some > examples from the Web: [...] > Those people are not talking about what a claims adjuster told them and > whether they were covered. Maybe they were covered by insurance and > maybe they weren't, but it wasn't under discussion. They were talking > about the car being severely damaged. On ProQuest, I found a 1963 usage of "totaled the car out" in an insurance claims adjuster sense, but this 1966 quote shows that a more general usage may be nearly as old: Mrs. Rollo explained: "It was his car, an Alfa Romeo. And some guy put me into the wall -- right before we were to be married. The car was totaled," or wrecked beyond repair. >> Not to pick the nit too closely, but I'd think the common usage >> is directly related to the insurance usage. When would you ever >> use "totaled" if not referring to the insurance application of >> the word? In the insurance sense I might say "the adjustor totalled my car", but if I said "I totalled my car" I would probably mean I had destroyed it, not merely damaged it beyond economic repair. >> "My car was severely damaged" would be a non-insurance-related >> observation, but "My car was totaled" would be the common usage [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > discussion has nothing to do with insurance. The *origin* would > have been the insurance usage, Is that documented anywhere? It seems just as likely to be a shortening of "totally destroyed" or something of the sort. > but the actual *meaning* has > shifted. Some examples from the Web: [examples snipped] > Those people are not talking about what a claims adjuster told > them and whether they were covered. Maybe they were covered by > insurance and maybe they weren't, but it wasn't under discussion. > They were talking about the car being severely damaged. The OED lists a couple other uses, one meaning "very drunk" and other referring to a building destroyed by fire. Also one meaning "mentally upset", from 1966. SignatureRay Heindl (remove the Xs to reply) > >> "My car was severely damaged" would be a non-insurance-related > >> observation, but "My car was totaled" would be the common usage [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Is that documented anywhere? It seems just as likely to be a > shortening of "totally destroyed" or something of the sort. Hm. I'm just speaking from observation, confirmed by others. It is certainly my impression that, first, the insurance people talked about the car being totalled (that is, damaged heavily enough to be written off as a total loss), and then, after that, people spoke of totalling their cars. This occurred since I became an adult. M-W lists that meaning of the verb "to total" but does not explain the etymology of later meanings of any word. So I don't know how you could document this idea; perhaps using a database like ProQuest. Can I point out that, if the word was short for something like "totally destroyed," nothing would have stopped it from being coined in 1900 or 1800 or before? But it wasn't (as far as I know). Not proof, I know, but something to keep in mind. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > >> "My car was severely damaged" would be a non-insurance-related > > >> observation, but "My car was totaled" would be the common usage [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > 1800 or before? But it wasn't (as far as I know). Not proof, I know, but > something to keep in mind. Well, the OED does have this cite from 1895: 1895 W. RYE _Vocab. E. Anglia_ 232 _Totald_ [sic], killed or injured. The first automotive usage is from 1954: 1954 Amer. Speech XXIX. 103 Bob totaled his car last night. Cites follow from 1965 onwards, none making any mention of insurance. As RF noted, ProQuest has a cite from 1963 ("totaled the car out") referring to insurance, and one from 1966 (the car was totaled") with no such reference. Here's the 1963 quote in full: 'Nevermore' Not This Bird's Line; Totalization What Next? By Jerry Doolittle Washington Post, Apr 7, 1963. p. E2 Last winter a neighbor turned his car over on Shirley hwy. The insurance adjuster decided that the car was worth $700, which was a good deal less than the cost of fixing it. The company took possession of the car and paid its owner $700. In the language of insurance men, they totaled the car out. What a thing! They totaled it out. What a solidly American ring the phrase has. From the above cites, it certainly seems possible that the general sense of "total" meaning 'to make a total wreck of' predated the more specific insurance-related sense. |
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