Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004

} R J Valentine <rj@smart.net> wrote:
}>
}> } I was writing email to a friend and got stumped over this choice. Do
}> } Nos 1 and 2 mean different things? If not, could you provide me with
}> } some examples that explain when to use which?
}>
}> They mean about the same thing, but 1 is right and 2 is wrong.
}>
}> } Am I correct in understanding that No.3 is grammatically incorrect?
}>
}> No.
}>
}> } 1. I am so busy that I can't update the page as often as I hoped.
}> } 2. I am so busy that I can't update the page as often as I had hoped.
}>
}> Better:
}>
}> I was so busy that I couldn't update the page as often as I had hoped.
}> I have been so busy that I couldn't update the page as often as I had
}> hoped.
}
} Thanks for the improvements. Could you please tell me why the original
} sentences, especially 1, need to be refined?

1 is fine as is.

}                                              Is it better to frame
} ideas like this in the past or present perfect tense?

Are you talking about the main clause in the "Better" versions of 2?

If so, past probably gets the idea across fastest to the most speakers of
English, but could give the impression that you are no longer
busy.  Present perfect suggests that you are still busy, and that's why
you didn't update the page as soon as you got all finished being busy, for
those who wonder why you're explaining instead of updating.

}                                                       What if I really
} want to talk about the present situation as opposed to the past, which
} I was trying to do with the original sentences?

1 is fine as is.

}> } 3.*I am so busy that I can't update the page as often as I have hoped.
}>
}> It's not wrong; it's just a little more subtle than the others.
}>
}> Look for explanations by people who say things like "sequence of tenses".
}
} Actually I did. Grammar books say that you should say things like
} "The desk is not as big as I expected" in stead of
} "..as I have expected," and
} "You're older than I thought" in stead of
} "than I have thought."
}
} So I just assumed 3 was wrong. But you say 3 is not wrong.

Yes, and pay no attention to teachers of English as a second language who
suggest that I'm wrong.  It may not say what you think it says, though.

} Here's what I thought: The present perfect tense is used to talk
} about things with some relevance to the present. In the first
} example above, it's impossible to expect the desk to be any
} different size than it really is because you know what size it is
} once you have seen it. So the past tense should be used. In my
} No 3, on the other hand, you could still keep hoping (no matter
} what the reality is) to update the page more often than you do
} now, in which case you use the present perfect. Correct?

Gracious!  It sounds like you've been talking to British people.

In number 3 you are suggesting (realize it or not) that in your short life
you have had plenty of time to be hoping about how often you'd like to be
updating, and that maybe some of that time you spent hoping you'd be
updating a lot more often, and that maybe other time was spent hoping
you'd be updating just a little more often, and that even a little time
was spent hoping you'd be updating even a little _less_ often (while of
course still updating at a reasonable rate), and that you continue to hope
one way or the other.  Now I'm guessing you don't even want to tell people
that much about your indecision, which is the real reason you want to stay
away from 3, not because it is ungrammatical (which it isn't except maybe
in some British schools, plus maybe one out in the sticks of Taiwan).  
It's just too complicated, that's all.

Stick to 1 or one of the "Better" versions of 2.

Or just go ahead and update the pages, and you won't have to keep making
excuses.