 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Pull the other one
Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. There's a version in, I think, a Monty Python sketch/film that goes: "Pull the other one. It's got bells on it" (or something to that effect). I'm pretty sure it was a MP film. I can distinctly see/hear Michael Palin uttering it. Anyway, would that have been a version they invented themselves? --- jfm "Jouni Filip Maho" <jouni.maho@africanRE.guMO.seVE> wrote... > Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" > originates. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Michael Palin uttering it. Anyway, would that have been a version they > invented themselves? No -- it was well-known to me in 1950s Britain. I suspect we're never going to find the origin. I assume you're aware that it's a development of "You're pulling my leg!". Matti > > "Pull the other one. It's got bells on it" (or something to that > > effect). I'm pretty sure it was a MP film. I can distinctly see/hear [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I assume you're aware that it's a development of "You're pulling my > leg!". Right: 1 "Pulling my leg" 2 "Now pull the other one, it's got bells on." > "Jouni Filip Maho" <jouni.maho@africanRE.guMO.seVE> wrote... > > Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I assume you're aware that it's a development of "You're pulling my > leg!". Yes, I know about the leg -- that's the one I intended to query about in the first paragraph, but the Monty Python line kept echoing in my mind so i wrote that instead. --- jouni maho Jouni Filip Maho escribió : >> "Jouni Filip Maho" <jouni.maho@africanRE.guMO.seVE> wrote... >>> Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > in the first paragraph, but the Monty Python line kept echoing in my > mind so i wrote that instead. It's strange, since there is no such Monty Python line. The expression "Pull the other one (it's got bells on)" is in my Harrap's dictionary of English idioms, and means "I don't believe you". There is the following dialog in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", in the first scene: Man in the castle: {6673}{6721}Who goes there? Arthur: {6723}{6830}It is I, Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon|from the castle of Camelot. {6832}{6914}King of the Britons!|Defeater of the Saxons! {6916}{6974}Sovereign of all England! Man in the castle: {7009}{7075}- Pull the other one. Arthur: I am. {7077}{7133}This is my trusty servant Patsy. {7135}{7193}We have ridden the length|and breadth of the land... How come that a non-existing line keeps echoing in your mind, but the idiom in the Harrap's dictionary is almost exactly what you asked? You say that you can distinctly see/hear Michael Palin uttering it? It is most strange.  SignatureSaludos cordiales Javi Mood conjugation: I enjoy a drop You never say no He is an alcoholic (Craig Brown) > How come that a non-existing line keeps echoing in your mind, but the idiom > in the Harrap's dictionary is almost exactly what you asked? You say that > you can distinctly see/hear Michael Palin uttering it? It is most strange. Yes, it is, isn't it. --- jouni maho >Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >--- >jfm "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris Dancer reference. > >Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris > Dancer reference. I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a Morris Dancer? --- jouni maho > > "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my > > leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris > > Dancer reference. > > I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a > Morris Dancer? A style of English folk dancing. Bells and handkerchiefs. Plenty of pictures and articles on the Web, such as: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/conkers-and-ghosts/morris.htm There is debate about whether the tradition is ancient or not, but this would be the wrong newsgroup to discuss that. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > > "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my > > > leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > pictures and articles on the Web, such as: > http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/conkers-and-ghosts/morris.htm According to that site: In addition to the dancers there are often other characters involved. The most common is a fool, who keeps the public amused and the dancers in order with a pig's bladder on a stick. I assume pigs' bladders aren't part of ancient English cousine, if it's used to keep the dancers "in order". Not even in sausages? --- jouni maho > > http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/conkers-and-ghosts/morris.htm By the way, Morris dancers were brought into this conversation as a sort of amusing theory, not as a genuine connection to "with bells on." > According to that site: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Not even in sausages? I guess not. Maybe they're too rubbery -- they apparently can be blown up into a ball or balloon. Anybody ever see a real one? Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote about it from her pioneer childhood. Her books aren't on line, but a student wrote in a book report: Little House in the Big Woods is a good book about a family that lived long ago - about 120 years ago. ... One part we liked was when Pa made a balloon out of a pig's bladder. They used every part of the animal that they killed, even the pigs tail which they fried and ate... SignatureBest - Donna Richoux "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... > By the way, Morris dancers were brought into this conversation as a > sort of amusing theory, not as a genuine connection to "with bells > on." I disagree. Whoever originated the phrase certainly intended to refer to Morris Dancing; I'd bet my mortgage on it, as UK Education Minister Charles Clarke said the other day. Matti > I'd bet my mortgage on it, as UK Education Minister Charles Clarke > said the other day. Isn't your mortgage owned by somebody else? Sounds like a safe bet. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There are just two rules of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |governance in a free society: Mind Palo Alto, CA 94304 |your own business. Keep your hands |to yourself. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... > > I'd bet my mortgage on it, as UK Education Minister Charles Clarke > > said the other day. > > Isn't your mortgage owned by somebody else? Sounds like a safe bet. Said Minister was at university with me, and isn't as daft as he looks -- which isn't difficult, in his case. Matti >"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Said Minister was at university with me, and isn't as daft as he >looks -- which isn't difficult, in his case. That's funny, I was at university with him, too. We were on the JCR committee together. Not only is he quite bright, but he seems to have got more sincere and less pompous than when he was a student. Mike Page > >"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote... > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > seems to have got more sincere and less pompous than when he was > a student. So is "being at university with" transitive? SignatureJerry Friedman [...]>> > >> That's funny, I was at university with him, too. We were on the >> JCR committee together. Not only is he quite bright, but he >> seems to have got more sincere and less pompous than when he was >> a student. > >So is "being at university with" transitive? Not necessarily since A might have been at university with both B and C, but if B left the university before C arrived then B was not at university with C. Mike Page > "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to Morris Dancing; I'd bet my mortgage on it, as UK Education Minister > Charles Clarke said the other day. It's interesting that you're so convinced (setting aside the mortgage bit); I'm not. Except for the fact that the a fairly sizeable part of the British general public would probably think, "uh, legs, bells, must be Morris dancing" and wouldn't be able to think of any other association, I don't see any evidence yet that that was truly the origin. One point. Morris dancers always wear bells on *both* legs (think of that steady "ching-ching, ching-ching" sound). This saying requires that one leg be bell-less. Another point. I have not studied it in detail, but as far as I know there's nothing about pulling legs in Morris dancing; it's not a dance call or figure. So it's not some situation that would arise naturally from the dance. Another point. There's no evidence so far that this was started by Morris dancers, said by Morris dancers, said to Morris dancers, said *about* Morris dancers, nothing. Perhaps someone could dredge up full citations of how it was first used, but I suspect they won't be enlightening. Cassell's just said, 1960s. Not a unusually strong year for Morris dancing that I know of. So what do I think it was? I don't know. A punch-line of some old joke, maybe, that's about as far as I get. But if the reference books don't know already, it's not likely that we ever will. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... > > "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... > > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > joke, maybe, that's about as far as I get. But if the reference books > don't know already, it's not likely that we ever will. My confidence on this matter survives your well-expressed and logical dubiety. We don't need to bring in other old jokes, or require these dancers to eschew bells on one leg, or that they pull each other's legs in a literal or any other manner. Trust me -- legs with bells on means Morris Dancers. There Is No Alternative. Matti > "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... >>> "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Matti IANAMD but suppose this 'other leg' *doesn't* have bells on. Because, if I use the expression to you, my other leg is certainly bell-less. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > My confidence on this matter survives your well-expressed and logical > dubiety. We don't need to bring in other old jokes, or require these > dancers to eschew bells on one leg, or that they pull each other's legs > in a literal or any other manner. Trust me -- legs with bells on means > Morris Dancers. There Is No Alternative. The wearing of bells on the hose or even shoes has been fashionable at various times in history. However, the phrase makes me think more of a jester than a Morris Man. SignatureRob Bannister "Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> wrote... > > My confidence on this matter survives your well-expressed and > > logical dubiety. We don't need to bring in other old jokes, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > various times in history. However, the phrase makes me think more of a > jester than a Morris Man. The jester traditionally has one or more bells attached to his eponymous cap. What is the evidence that his legs were similarly belled? Matti > Another point. There's no evidence so far that this was started by > Morris dancers, said by Morris dancers, said to Morris dancers, said [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > maybe, that's about as far as I get. But if the reference books don't > know already, it's not likely that we ever will. The earliest cite with "bells" in the OED is from 1966: 1966 D. FRANCIS Flying Finish v. 63 'They are English mares going to be mated with Italian sires,' explained Conker... 'Pull the other one, it's got bells on,' said the engineer. But "pull the other leg" (with no reference to bells) is apparently much older. From the (London) Times archive: Mr. Asquith At Bath. Naval Defence And Tariff Reform. The Times (London), Friday, Jan 07, 1910; pg. 4 It is strange, it seems to me, that his sense of humour should have so fallen asleep as to make him unaware that ` his German friends were in all probability -- if I may use a vulgar expression -- pulling his leg. (Cries of "Rub it in" and "Pull the other leg" and loud laughter.) So if "pull one's leg" dates to the 19th century, than "pull the other leg/one" may have been an early-20th-century elaboration, a humorous response taking the idiom literally. Then the bells were evidently added some decades later as a further elaboration. On alt.fan.cecil-adams there was some discussion of the possible link between "...it's got bells on" and the intensifier "with bells on": http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AC67C28.EB54B65F@mailexcite.com One source cited ("Dictionary of Catch Phrases") suggests that both expressions are presumably derived from "pictures of court jesters, wearing cap and bells". >So what do I think it was? I don't know. A punch-line of some old joke, >maybe, that's about as far as I get. But if the reference books don't >know already, it's not likely that we ever will. If you have the reference books, you have a leg up on us. I've also heard that "a leg over on us". This makes more sense since it would indicate a rider that already has one leg over his mount and will be faster off the mark. (Just trying to make up for introducing Morris Dancing to the thread) >> "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > joke, maybe, that's about as far as I get. But if the reference books > don't know already, it's not likely that we ever will. My guess - it's an attempt at biting the biter. Having established you are pulling my leg, I invite you to pull the other one. An unremarkable offer. But I try to tempt you into believing it will make a ringing noise due to the presence of bells. Which is absurd. Which, if you believe it, makes you more credulous than I, because I spotted your original leg-pull. So the heart of the jest is that the other leg actually *doesn't* have bells on. So it doesn't have anything to do with Morris Dancers. (There's a special ward, BTW, in the Nuffield Orthopaedic for Morris Dancers who fall off the bonnet (hood)) OED's earliest cite for pulling a leg is << 1901 G. Douglas Ho. w. Green Shutters 216 He had pulled his leg as far as he wanted it. >> which seems to suggest an analogy to a physical process, perhaps in order to unbalance someone? Maybe there's a tie with 'falling for' a ruse or joke? The 'bells on' variation has not been traced back earlier than 1966. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply > OED's earliest cite for pulling a leg is << 1901 G. Douglas Ho. w. Green > Shutters 216 He had pulled his leg as far as he wanted it. >> which seems > to suggest an analogy to a physical process, perhaps in order to unbalance > someone? Maybe there's a tie with 'falling for' a ruse or joke? There's an earlier cite under "leg": 1888 W. B. CHURCHWARD Blackbirding 216 Then I shall be able to pull the leg of that chap Mike. He is always trying to do me. Michael Quinion adds: http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-pul2.htm But Jonathan Lighter, in the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, has found an example from 1821, suggesting that it might both be much older and also known in America as well as Britain (although American sources usually suggest that it is indeed British in origin). There's also a Scots version "to draw the leg" that might indicate its homeland is north of the border. > Michael Quinion adds: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > American sources usually suggest that it is indeed > British in origin). I didn't think to look in RHHDAS under "L" but that's where it is ("P" not being published). 1821 Gallatin /Diary/ 184: I really think father, in a covert way, pulls his leg. I know he thinks little of his talents and less of his manners. They also happen to show a use of "to pull someone's leg," running from 1886 to 1916, that means to ask a person for money. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > > Michael Quinion adds: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > They also happen to show a use of "to pull someone's leg," running from > 1886 to 1916, that means to ask a person for money. I'm not sure if this has a relation, but my paperpback copy of the "1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" says: PULL ... To have a pull is to have an advantage; generally where a person has some superiority at a game of chance or skill. LEG ... To fight at the leg; to take unfair advantages: it being held unfair by back-sword players to strike at the leg. The entry LEG also has: To break a leg: a woman who has a bastard, is said to have broken a leg. I've never heard of this. Would it still be understood by Brits? --- jouni maho >> According to that site: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I guess not. Maybe they're too rubbery -- they apparently can be blown >up into a ball or balloon. Anybody ever see a real one? Oh, yes - some Morris sides still use them. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove number to reply >>> http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/conkers-and-ghosts/morris.htm > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I guess not. Maybe they're too rubbery -- they apparently can be blown > up into a ball or balloon. Anybody ever see a real one? We (the Perth Morris Men) used to use real pigs' bladders for many years, but eventually we found that surgical gloves look very similar when inflated, take less preparation and don't go smelly so quickly. SignatureRob Bannister jouni.maho@africanRE.guMO.seVE spake thus: > According to that site: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I assume pigs' bladders aren't part of ancient English cousine, if it's > used to keep the dancers "in order". The "fool" is a descendent of the court jester. Pigs bladders can be inflated, in the manner of an early balloon. Prancing around carrying a stick with an inflated pig's bladder tied to it passed for comedy in Elizabethan England; it was funnier if one also wore a multi-coloured cap sporting tiny bells (nothing to do with the ones on the Morris Dancers' legs). Is now the time to bring up dwyle flonking (it must be a year since it's appeared here)? SignatureDavid ===== > jouni.maho@africanRE.guMO.seVE spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > multi-coloured cap sporting tiny bells (nothing to do with the ones > on the Morris Dancers' legs). The Fool with the Headington Quarry Morris Men (the world's premier side - see http://hqmd.tripod.com/) told me some years ago that EU regulations meant that he could no longer obtain pigs' bladders and he had had to replace his last one with the inside lining of a wine box. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> >Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a >Morris Dancer? Some people might consider that a straight line. Basically, it's folk dancing. From one description: " When speaking of Morris dancing, the first thing that comes to mind is Cotswold Morris, which may be thought of as the regular kind. This is generally danced in groups (or sets) of six dancers, arranged in two rows of three. The dancers hold hankies in their hands, or perhaps sticks, either two short or one long one, and have bell-pads tied at their knees which make a loud and cheerful rhythm as they dance. Border Morris originated in the Border region (that is, close to the Welsh border), and is usually danced in sets of four or eight. Most of the dances involve sticks rather than hankies, and the costumes worn are slightly different than those for Cotswold, although they also include bells. The dances also tend to be a little wilder, although this may be a more recent development. An article about Morris Dancing can be found at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2026567.stm Speaking as an American tourist, it is a terrible - terrible! - shock to visit England and come upon your first Morris Dancers. One grows up thinking the English are dignified, stiff-upper-lipped, reticent people that water their gardens in bowlers and striped trousers. Then, turn a corner, and you see a group of utterly mad people joined together by handkerchiefs, wearing sets of bells on their trouser legs, and prancing about like Zulu tribesmen in cricket whites and multi-colored pennants for sleeve garters. It's disconcerting, I tell you. Meet one off-duty and in a pub and they appear to be absolutely normal. If you can, steer the conversation around to Americans and their penchant for garish golf clothes or western wear. Then, comment on Morris Dancers and their costumes and watch him freeze up and affix you with a steely look and a frown as he says "That's quite different, you know." >> "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my >> leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris >> Dancer reference. > >I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a >Morris Dancer? People who strap bells on their legs, and dance waving rags. They always dance in groups. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, in alt.usage.english, Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> writes >>> "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my >>> leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >People who strap bells on their legs, and dance waving rags. They always dance >in groups. Or they wave sticks, when is bloody dangerous to be close by, as they are cracked together with enough force to break them. There is always a troop(?) at our local Beer Festival. SignatureMark Browne If replying by email, please use the "Reply-To" address, as the "From" address will be rejected >On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, in alt.usage.english, Steve Hayes ><hayesmstw@hotmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >are cracked together with enough force to break them. There is always a >troop(?) at our local Beer Festival. That's outrageous and should be unacceptable. I can't fathom allowing people that make noise and weave around gyrating oddly at a beer festival. >>>Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a > Morris Dancer? You could look at my photo in the aue files. I'm not actually a dancer; I just play the music. SignatureRob Bannister > > I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a > > Morris Dancer? > > You could look at my photo in the aue files. I'm not actually a dancer; > I just play the music. So I did. I take it that the hat is part of a Morris Man's attire, and not your usual dressing. --- jouni maho >>>I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a >>>Morris Dancer? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So I did. I take it that the hat is part of a Morris Man's attire, and > not your usual dressing. Indeed. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>I guess I'm going to flaunt my ignorence now, but who or what is a >>>>Morris Dancer? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Indeed. Thanks for suggesting that we look at your photo, I haven't seen that page before. Is there a lot of morris dancing in Australia? My late brother-in-law fiddled for a morris dancing group, but that was in Berkshire :-) I also enjoyed Matti's photo, the setting looked like Yorkshire, somewhere like Bolton Abbey. SignatureLouisa Essex, England, Europe > I also enjoyed Matti's photo I'm telling you, Matti, that photo's a babe magnet. SignatureDena Jo Delete "delete.this.for.email" for email. "Dena Jo" <TPUBGTH.delete.this.for.email@yahoo.com> wrote... > > I also enjoyed Matti's photo > > I'm telling you, Matti, that photo's a babe magnet. It's all down to regular habits and a good dose of Photoshop. Louisa wondered whether it was taken at Bolton Abbey. The answer's no, but it IS a location in northern England. Can anyone identify it? Matti > Is there a lot of morris dancing in Australia? My late brother-in-law fiddled > for a morris dancing group, but that was in Berkshire :-) When I came to Australia, I thought I had escaped cricket, tea and Morris dancing, but sadly no. SignatureRob Bannister > "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my > leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris > Dancer reference. But a Morris Dancer would have bells on both legs! BTW, I noticed that you capitalised Morris Dancer. This is quite common amongst the fraternity, are you a Morris Dancer? Paul Draper Albion Morris Men East Saxon Sword Dancers >> "Pull the other one" means that I'm saying that you are pulling my >> leg. I assumed the addition of "it's got bells on it" was a Morris [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >capitalised Morris Dancer. This is quite common amongst the fraternity, are >you a Morris Dancer? I was not aware that I was giving away the secrets of the fraternity. I emphatically deny ever participating in morris dancing. I have never attached a bell or other noisemaker to any article of my clothing. I do quite like "Steeleye Span", though, and have a couple of their recordings. "All Around My Hat" and "Black Jack Davy" are especially good. "Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@mungedyahoo.com> wrote... > I was not aware that I was giving away the secrets of the fraternity. > I emphatically deny ever participating in morris dancing. I have > never attached a bell or other noisemaker to any article of my > clothing. I do quite like "Steeleye Span", though, and have a couple > of their recordings. "All Around My Hat" and "Black Jack Davy" are > especially good. I'm a Span Fan too, but I don't think they ever improved on their first album, _Hark! the Village Wait_. Matti > "Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@mungedyahoo.com> wrote... > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'm a Span Fan too, but I don't think they ever improved on their first > album, _Hark! the Village Wait_. Ah, memories... SignatureJerry Friedman > Do any of you good people know where the phrase "Pull the other one" originates. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > uttering it. Anyway, would that have been a version they invented > themselves? Cassell's Dictionary of Slang has "to pull someone's leg" to tease, early 19th century "pull the other one/pull the other one, it's got bells on" a derisive rebuttal of an improbable statement, 1960 on. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > Cassell's Dictionary of Slang has > > "to pull someone's leg" to tease, early 19th century Does it say anything about how it originated? --- jouni maho How's this for a grande theory: "Pulling someone's leg" derives from pulling something from beneath someone, like a carpet so s/he falls on her/his butt -- as a practical joke, or symbolically make someone fall down. Thus, we get pulling away the legs. This gets shortened/abridged to "pulling someone's leg", which eventually gets a tail-clause "it's got bells on" (as a joke-ish ornament). Now, how old would a practical joke like pulling a carpet from under someone be? (Sorry for the speculative nature, but the phrase intrigues me for some reason.) --- jfm > How's this for a grande theory: > > "Pulling someone's leg" derives from pulling something from beneath > someone, like a carpet Or, more likely, the stool they're sitting on. (Stools got legs, and they can be pulled.) Interestingly, there's a different phrase "To pull the rug out from under someone", which means, roughly, to suddenly disrupt their plans (among other things). > so s/he falls on her/his butt -- as a practical joke, or > symbolically make someone fall down. Thus, we get pulling away the > legs. I'd say that that's one possibility, but I'm not sure it fits. The *sense* of "you're pulling my leg" is "you're trying to get me to believe something that isn't true". So I wonder if there wasn't some sort of well-known trick at the time in which the trickster literally (but secretly) pulled the victims leg to get them to believe that something else was happening. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If the human brain were so simple 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |That we could understand it, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |We would be so simple |That we couldn't. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com spake thus: > > How's this for a grande theory: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Or, more likely, the stool they're sitting on. (Stools got legs, and > they can be pulled.) Stools got legs! Stools got legs! Sorry, I can't resist it. It's lived with me for 25 years or more. SignatureDavid ===== > kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sorry, I can't resist it. It's lived with me for 25 years or more. That's actually why I phrased it that way. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The reason that we don't have 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |"bear-proof" garbage cans in the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |park is that there is a significant |overlap in intelligence between the kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |smartest bears and the dumbest (650)857-7572 |humans. | Yosemite Park Ranger http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com spake thus: > > kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com spake thus: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That's actually why I phrased it that way. I suspected it was not happenstance. I was just so pleased to be able to shout it out loud. SignatureDavid ===== > > How's this for a grande theory: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Or, more likely, the stool they're sitting on. (Stools got legs, and > they can be pulled.) Yes. That sounds better. > Interestingly, there's a different phrase "To pull the rug out from > under someone", which means, roughly, to suddenly disrupt their [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > *sense* of "you're pulling my leg" is "you're trying to get me to > believe something that isn't true". My reasoning (speculative as it was/is) was that "you're pulling my leg" has an element of "you're joking" in it, which would cover both the putative original sense of a practical joke as well as a later re-interpreted sense of "you saying/doing something that ain't true". >So I wonder if there wasn't some > sort of well-known trick at the time in which the trickster literally > (but secretly) pulled the victims leg to get them to believe that > something else was happening. Are there any good sources/studies of old/ancient practical jokes? I know there are academic journals devoted to the study of humour. But I don't think our local university library carries any of them. --- jfm |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.